College life

[TheFederalist]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

[Potato_Priest]

I just moved to college this year, and here's some advice that I read, accompanied by some of my own.
1. Buy lots of socks and underwear. Chances are, you won't be doing laundry all that often.
2. Buy a printer. Your school may offer free printing at the library or it might not, but having your own is just incredibly useful.
3. Get to know your school's study rooms, because it's often easier to quit procrastinating and force yourself to work in a foreign space outside your dorm room.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

[TheFederalist]

Understood, sounds reasonable too. If I'm living a few hours from home, how much stuff should I carry of my own? Few packing boxes worth or will a suitcase or two do?

[Potato_Priest]

Understood, sounds reasonable too. If I'm living a few hours from home, how much stuff should I carry of my own? Few packing boxes worth or will a suitcase or two do?

A suitcase or two will definitely do it, especially if you buy some stuff once you're there.

[Mith]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

In my opinion, if your a person who likes to go out and do things, spend the first part of the semester getting a feel for what your workload is going to be like before comitting to too manh social activities. I personally have a problem with the "Welcome Week" done at my University, as I feel like it gives the wrong impressions to fresh from home students.

Also, try and establish work groups in courses. Ideally, this is a group of classmates that share multiple courses with you. This can give you an easy time to establish a good group for any group projects, as well as for asistance on assignments.

[Mikemical]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

It depends on where you'll be headed as well as if you'll be staying in a dorm, residence, etc.

Hope you know how to cook stuff other than ramen and know how to do your own laundry.

[Potato_Priest]

Another thing- Since you're on this forum, you probably enjoy playing tabletop RPGs. A good way to find a group is to sort of mention the fact that you play in casual conversation. If people don't react, then they don't know anything about it, but fairly often they will mention that they play or know of a group that does.

[TheFederalist]

It depends on where you'll be headed as well as if you'll be staying in a dorm, residence, etc.

Hope you know how to cook stuff other than ramen and know how to do your own laundry.
Dorm, 100%. Love my parents but relative freedom is nice to see.

I've taken a bunch of cooking classes in high school and know the basics of cooking some stuff, but what kind of stuff should I be considering as my staple? If it helps, the school I'm most likely to go is in the Wisconsin area

Another thing- Since you're on this forum, you probably enjoy playing tabletop RPGs. A good way to find a group is to sort of mention the fact that you play in casual conversation. If people don't react, then they don't know anything about it, but fairly often they will mention that they play or know of a group that does.

Nah, I'm a jock, I come here to bully you nerds.
/s

Thanks for the advice! I'm not sure what kind of clubs the school has for it, so I think I'll have to go with what you've suggested to find my share of tabletop gaming friends.

[Tvtyrant]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

You will save upwards of $30,000 if you take two years at community college first, and your classes will be better because the class size is smaller.

[Vinyadan]

Also, try and establish work groups in courses. Ideally, this is a group of classmates that share multiple courses with you. This can give you an easy time to establish a good group for any group projects, as well as for asistance on assignments.

If the course structure allows for it, this is very important. It makes your life much better. It's also a way to be informed about how things actually function, which rights you have, whom you should contact if teachers or offices aren't doing their job...

[Peelee]

I sent this as a PM to another user on here, and I don't think they would mind if I shared, since nothing is unique to them.

Always get to class early. If you're ever late, the temptation to skip is much stronger, and that can build on itself very easily.

On the first day, that goes double; you get to pick your seat, which most people just stay in the rest of the semester. Sitting up front has a lot of advantages. You're more recognizable to the professor, which helps if you need their help for anything. Also, it makes you realize that you're more recognizable, and you'll subconsciously pay more attention. Also, nobody's in your way, and you can see the boards perfectly. Lastly, when class is over, if you have any questions for the professor, you'll almost always not have to wait on other students who do as well.

Only if you're able to handle it, do as many morning classes as you can. While everyone else is sleeping in, you're getting your classes done. While everyone else is at classes, you're getting your studying done. When the studious people are studying, you can help them and get bonus studying done or help out others that need it and make better friends and stronger connections. Conversely, when the non-studious people are partying, you have all your stuff done already, and can party. It's college, have fun with it.

The fancier the school, the more you want to make friends with the people who do the best in class. See if they have a study group, or if they're willing to help if you're struggling. It never hurts to have friends in high places, and that increases your odds of it. Don't discount the value of networking.

Everyone will tell you to do the work, for some classes every hour of lecture needs 3 hours of study, etc etc. What they don't tell you is that, similar to how magic and advanced technology are indistinguishable, so are natural inclination and hard work. If you don't feel like you are good at a subject, spend more time on it. If you excel at something, don't just blow it off because of that.

For the love of god, don't ever cheat. Academia takes that more seriously than you can imagine, and it's not worth the risk. BUT! If you can, game the system. Take every advantage you can get. For instance, let's say you need a Calculus and Pre-Cal class as requirements for your major, and you don't care about electives. Let's say your uni offers Pre-Cal Algebra, Pre-Cal Algebra with Trig, and Trig. All will help you with Calculus, and if you take all three (even though you only need the Pre-Cal with Trig), you'll basically be going over mostly the same information in three classes, which makes them all easier, and gives you three times the A's that only taking one would give you, without significantly increasing your study load.

Ignore people who say to take electives or other classes to help round you out, especially if you're thinking about doing grad school. They don't look to see if you took classes to round you out. They look at your GPA. Given how much your degree is gonna cost, classes that count for nothing but hours are better used to help knock your grade up then to learn the very basics about something you'll forget in a year anyway.

This may sound silly, but totally take Ballroom Dancing if they offer it. You'll get to meet new people better than in a Pre-Cal class, for instance, and later on in life, if you ever want to try to impress a date, you know ballroom dancing, and that's kind of awesome.

Oh, one more thing. Get into the fanciest school you can and ace all your classes, so you can hook up your good silver dragon friend with a job sometime if ever in need.:smallwink:

[Astral Avenger]

Studying wise:
Don't cram for midterms/finals, or at least make sure to keep exercising, eating and sleeping. You won't get any benefit to studying for 12 hours straight, sleeping for 2 and then going to take a test, you're much better off getting a good night's sleep and a few hours of studying. Sleep deprivation has similar effects on the brain/cognition to intoxication, if you wouldn't show up for a test drunk, don't show up sleep deprived either.

Study groups can be good, but if they have the wrong people in them, they won't be productive.

Get stuff started early if you have larger blocks of time between assignment and due date.

Many of my math and computer science classes had recommended problem sets that were never collected (basically homework that was never due), be sure to do these, they help you learn the material and often are very closely related to what shows up on tests.

Social wise:
Check out events hosted by the different clubs on campus, if it's a good group of people, stick with the club/group/team/whatever, if it isn't, don't be afraid to walk away from it.

Peer pressure stops when you say yes.

Peer pressure stops when you're out of earshot/communication with a group.

One of the previous two is much healthier than the other, you can figure out which.

Medical wise:
Google medical amnesty laws for your area, I went to University of Minnesota-Twin Cities and grew up in MN, so I don't know exactly how WI has the laws set up, but take people to the hospital if they need it! There should be some degree of legal protection for intoxicated minors/illegal substances if you are taking them to the ER. Note that I'm not a legal scholar of any sort and I believe board rules prohibit me from giving legal advice beyond saying you should look up the medical amnesty laws. They are really good to know. (I've helped bring people to the hospital from parties before, be the person helping take them there, not the semi-conscious idiot getting taken there.)

Drink/smoke/inject/other responsibly if you do it at all. (Again, you don't have to do any of these.)

I am not advocating breaking any laws, but if you choose to do so, do it safely.

[Anonymouswizard]

Okay, I'm a limey, but here's my uni advice:
-Make sure you're competent at cooking. Not just 'knows the basics', but enough to buy whatever's cheap and cook it. A tin of tomatoes, some pasta, and fresh vegetables is cheap and filling*.
-Make sure you have an alarm that can get you up. Then wake up at the very least half an hour before your first lecture, ideally at the same time every day. Work out how much time it takes to get to your lecture, of you live on campus give yourself five more minutes travel time, otherwise take the less of double or an extra half hour at minimum.
-Parties are fine. A party every day is not. Know your limits, don't stay out too late, and don't do anything stupid when you're drunk (that's legal when you're just going to uni in America, right?).
-With regards to drinking, if you do so moderation is key. Blah blah, I won't lecture you but of someone seems to be having problems help them.
-Check out your chaplaincy, some are really religious and some just attempt to provide students with a place to chill out (I was the most religious regular at mine by my this year).
-It is not funny to set the fire alarm off. Especially at three in the morning. Especially during exam time. Especially of it's in the middle of winter. Especially if somebody set the body alarm off at two o'clock.
-Hide your clean cutlery in your room.
-Keep your pans washed, is the one way I set off the fire alarm.
-Everybody wants microwaves, but what's more useful is an electric kettle. With a decent power supply they boil Easter quickly, great for when you need to fill a thermos for your 9 o'clock lecture in a hurry.
-Most halls (I think dorms are the American equivalent) ban playing music out loud late at night. Most do not ban vacuuming your room at seven o'clock in the morning. If you hear the latter somebody's probably done the former.
-Set aside one afternoon or weekend a week. This is where you'll do all your housework tasks. I used the following order when in halls: put washing on, dust surfaces, clean desk, hoover floor, move washing into tumble drier, clean bathroom, mop bathroom, empty bin, put washing away. You may not have a bathroom you're responsible for and may be responsible for your kitchen area, make you're own list.
-On that note, lists! Every day when you wake up (or the night before) make a list of what you need to do today, add to it and cross items off during the day as required. This will vastly increase your productivity.
-When studying take breaks. This is hard, try not to break a state of flow but don't let boredom make you take them every five minutes.
-If you are going to be watching videos in your room, entertainment, educational, or especially woman with extra chromosome, get headphones.
-Eating an entire jar of picked beyond sounds like a good idea, and it is. The following are not: drinking an entire bottle of vodka in one sitting before going to the club, putting wheelie bins on cars, jumping in lakes or ponds, inviting sexist speakers to society events, buying rockets to events just so you can walk out when Katie Hopkins appears, chatting to the cure French girl. These all happened during my time at university, although I only personally did the last (there's even a couple of news stories around about the Hall emptying when Katie Hopkins appeared).




* I realise that ingredients can be relatively more expensive in some pasta of America, I could probably get three or four portions for £10, and I have to east double ones. I tended to go for a bit more and only get two portions, but it was still cheaper than the canteen.

[Toro]

I went to college for two years, the first year in which scholarships paid my way, the second the college (whose name I legally can't disclose) "paid" me to attend, provided I continued to play a certain sport. This meant that the second year I didn't have to study at all, so 1)I partied a lot:smallbiggrin: 2) I was able to take a step back and really analyze college. I've also ended up pulling in six figures, and made my first million by the age of 23, without the need for a degree. Hence, I do have some credit to my following advice. However, being male, I can't give accurate advice if OP is a female, because college treats them differently, but some of it still holds true.


The Bad:
1) College is a government cash cow. You spend approxiamately 5 years (the average time taken in the USA to complete a 4-year degree) and receive a piece of paper that for most of the population, isn't going to amount to much (unless you study to become a doctor/lawyer/something that truly requires the training, and then actually do the profession you studied for) as well as be +$100,000 US Dollars in debt. This means when you leave college, you probably won't be any traveling the world, having fun, etc. You'll need to get employed so you can pay for something that's price has risen way faster than inflation, for no apparent reason except that people are willing to pay for it.

2) Your college degree doesn't mean jack in 90% of jobs, and in the 10% it does matter (doctor/lawyer) it only really matters when you first seek employment anyway. An that is only if you don't have someone on the inside helping get you employed. If you have good connections, it will do even less.

The Good:
1) The average american male has 3 choice out of high school. A) College
B) Enlistment
C) Minimum-wage job, probably in your home town meaning you'll still be living with your parents.

If you are female add:
D) Sex work

Of course, you can always start you own business, travel the world, get into crime, etc. but 95% of the people at my 5 year high school reunion chose one of those three/four options. Of the four, college is IMO the best for average joe (though sex work, if you can put up with people judging you and not develop of drug addiction, can set you up for life in ~10-20 years depending on your lifestyle and how money savvy you are).

2)While the education normally isn't worth it, the social experience is provided you capitalize on your oppurtunity. This means:
A) Building a broad, strong network of connection in many fields.
B) Devoloping your self-confidence
C) (If you are a male) Learning how to and getting laid... a lot


Top Tips:
1) Don't pay much for college.

Unless you are become a doctor/lawyer/etc. where your actually school matters, going to an in-state state university, preferably with a decent football/basketball team. Why? Because a large college is easier, both the work-load and being able to cheat, and in-state tuition is much cheaper.

Get as many scholarships as you can. If you are decent at a sport, see if you can get a sport scholarship. Academic scholarship are easy to get, and if you are Caucasian, it doesn't hurt to answer the question "what race do you most align yourself with" on your application with a minority group, provided you look somewhat like you could be. (Make sure you check the wording of the question. Also, I am not a lawyer, so don't take this as sound legal advice. This is just what worked for me.) If you are able to align yourself with minority enough to pass college interviews, you will probably gain some scholarship from this, although they will not say it because of you race. If you ever have any troubles with this, threaten them with a lawsuit. (When I told the college that I wouldn't be attending after my first year, they found out I was Caucasian and not Native America, and threaten to sue me for misleading information leading to extra funding that I didn't deserve. The next day, I walked in with one of my dad's friends, who was suited up with a briefcase, claiming to be a lawyer. He told them that we where going to counter-she for discrimination, because scholarships granted on race alone was exactly that. The bought it, and agreed to settle by giving me my next year all-expenses paid if I continued to play football for them.)

2) If you are good at a sport, join the team.

You may get a scholarship, and if you are a male, you have just become a whole lot more desirable with the female populus of your social via the social status you've gained. If you are of minority descent, you have to stick to main-stream sports to get the full effect (I'm not being racist, it's just the way it is). If you're a good-looking white guy, you can join teams such as tennis or lacrosse, but football/basketball is still the best way to go. Plus the team atmosphere really gives you a chance to make good friends, which is a massive bonus.

3) If you can't/don't want to join a sports team, join a cool frat.

Greek life is great life bro-man:smalltongue: Honestly, if you are decent with people (not the fat frat bro that will eat anything) and you join a cool frat (not the nerd-frat or a minority frat) you are going to get a lot of party invites, a lot of friends, and a lot of the P. To tell if a frat is cool or not, go to there rush events at the start of the year, and see which one has the most hot chicks (I know, I probably sound sexist AF, but these are the facts). The one with the most hot chicks are the coolest. Being a cool guy in a cool frat means mega-bucks for your social status!

Personally, I played football and rushed a frat, which was good especially in the second year when I had a lot of free time other kids where devoting to studying. However, I was never top of my class in college, because a lot of time was spent socializing. (although, as long as your passing you classes, you are doing enough, (doctors/lawyers exempt from this))

4) Get Laid

This does a hell of a lot for your self-esteem, plus college is one place in the world where average joe with average game can get laid like Casinova. Take advantage of this, it will do you a world of good.

5) Realize Social Status is King

If college had a currency, it would be social status. And the cool guys who hang with others cool guys are the millionaires. And everything in college cost. Want to be invited to a lot of parties, you need the status. Want to get the cute blonde in the corner, status helps. Want someone to make a distaction while you cheat on a test, people will do that if your cool. And the best thing about being cool is that it's easy.

Coolness = Giving more status to a person/situation than you take + Not getting taken advatage of + How easy you make getting what you want look

If you need more help with this, check out websites like GoodLookingLoser (https://www.goodlookingloser.com)or Girlschase (http://www.girlschase.com/articles). (I'm not affiliated so I can't speak for all their content, but the boys tend to know what they are talking about)

6) Don't Spend to Much Time Gaming

Playing Madden on a Tuesday afternoon with your frat bros is a great way to recover from a four-day bender. However, spending every weekend in your room playing some MMO is a could way to waste your opportunity. Moderation is key. Also, think about stepping away from table top gaming for a while, or keeping it on the down-low. I get called 'a cool guy/have a cool life' or whatever, so people are sometimes surprise that I play D&D. However, I don't get all nerdy with people who don't game, and so people don't give a crap and still think I'm cool. That's in the real world. In college, kids are ruthless, and most of college is made up of people fighting for mid-social status roles, who will look for any opportunity to bring you down. And sadly, D&D isn't cool, so it will hit your social status pretty hard. That doesn't mean be ***** to the guys/gals that chose to game, the coolest guys are only ***** to guys that are ***** to them first, but I would recommend spending you time in college trying out different interests, and returning to table top gaming afterwards.

7) Don't Judge (especially chicks)

Learn this now. Chicks love sex. Guys loves sex. Chicks slut-shame other chicks, so they themselves can get better boyfriends, by remove competition. Guys who can't get any slut-shame chicks. It's sad that even in college girls don't get the freedom guys get when it comes to sex (I'm not a feminist, I think the pay-gap is bull-hockey, but this is the truth.) Instead, help girls explore their bodies, and do it discreetly. Even if you bang the hottest chick in school, don't go spreading it. If you're a guy who kiss-and-tells, you won't be doing much kissing.

7) AND THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF COLLEGE

If you're a guy, never get into a monogamous relationship. Trust me. I don't care if the school's hottest cheerleader wants to date you. By all means, bang her for as long as she'll stick around waiting for you to get committed, but don't get monogamous. Ever.

If you a girl, date the college's starting QB, and keep your sexploits discreet (I know you won't listen to me, and you're still going to tell your friends, because let's face it, sex is fun to talk about) But I can't tell you how many times I've seen a girl's BFF this week be 'that B*tch' next week.

Hope this helps.

[Peelee]

-Parties are fine. A party every day is not. Know your limits, don't stay out too late, and don't do anything stupid when you're drunk (that's legal when you're just going to uni in America, right?).

Drinking is perfectly legal at age 21.


-It is not funny to set the fire alarm off. Especially at three in the morning. Especially during exam time. Especially of it's in the middle of winter. Especially if somebody set the body alarm off at two o'clock.

Setting off the fire alarm, however, is VERY illegal, unless there's an actual fire. The fire department wholeheartedly agrees with you that it is not funny.


-Hide your clean cutlery in your room.
-Keep your pans washed, is the one way I set off the fire alarm.

I think you may have an unrealistic idea of the average American college dorm room.


-Eating an entire jar of picked beyond sounds like a good idea, and it is. The following are not: drinking an entire bottle of vodka in one sitting before going to the club, putting wheelie bins on cars, jumping in lakes or ponds, inviting sexist speakers to society events, buying rockets to events just so you can walk out when Katie Hopkins appears, chatting to the cure French girl. These all happened during my time at university, although I only personally did the last (there's even a couple of news stories around about the Hall emptying when Katie Hopkins appeared).

What's a Katie Hopkins? And what's wrong with chatting to the cute French girl?

[tensai_oni]

Very long post

This is a perfect summary of why I think the American education system is a load of bull. I'm not blaming Toro or anything he said, I blame the system.

Here's my own contribution, though since it's from a European perspective I'm not sure how useful will it be:

1. College/uni is the time of life when you will have more free time than ever before - or after. This makes it very tempting to be lazy and party all night or play video games all day every day. Don't give into that temptation. Do your work, at least a little work, and more than a few days before deadlines. Otherwise you'll find yourself in for a rude awakening.

2. Building a rapport with lecturers is important. If you have questions regarding some subject, ask them after class. Most lecturers have specific hours for meeting with students (once again, might be a non-American thing) and 90% of the time no one's interested so visiting will make you look like you truly care. On the other hand the 10% (usually when projects are due or exams are near) is incredibly crowded so best do your business earlier if you can afford it. If lecturers know who you are and know you are trying to learn something, you'll find soon enough that...

3. Everything can be negotiated. Deadlines are not set in stone. Grades you receive can be changed. All of that depends only on the lecturers' goodwill, and that goodwill is the higher the more you look like someone who cares about the subject matter and wants to seriously learn something in class as opposed to attending it just to pass.

4. Learn where you can go if things don't run smoothly. Fellow students causing trouble - smoking in dorms, loud music late at night? There's an office where you can go complain, you just need to know it exists and do it. Many unis also offer healthcare options for their students, physical or psychological. Once again, knowing the US this is unlikely for American colleges but it won't hurt to check.

5. Let's face it, so many lecturers like to pretend like their class is the only important thing you're having this semester and you'll need to study 8 hours for every 1 hour of lecture. You need to recognize which classes really will require more work, and which you can afford to spend less effort at. Don't ignore them altogether but don't think about doing all at the same time. You'll get overwhelmed. It's much better to compartmentalize and think of tasks that await you in small, easy to digest chunks. This is good advice for everything in life by the way, not just college.

[Peelee]

OP, if you go to school for sports, listen to Toro. If you go to school for literally anything else, ignore practically everything he said.

[Algeh]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

So, one thing I wish I'd had a better understanding of when I applied to college Many Years Ago is that colleges come in kinds and are very different from each other. Broadly, colleges come in flavors such as "community college", "state flagship university", "compass direction state university" (usually these used be state colleges/normal schools that decided to upscale into "universities" at some point), "small liberal arts college" (SLAC), and religious schools, which have a lot of overlap with SLACs but some are bigger and more university-like and not all SLACs are religious. There are also narrow-focus schools for some specific areas of study. If possible, go tour some different kinds of schools to see ways in which they are different and develop an opinion about waht might be a good fit for you. Also, figure out some things you might want to major in and learn which schools have those majors (no school has every possible major, and different schools have different majors to choose from). Don't rule out a private school immediately just because it's expensive - most of them offer lots of scholarships to the students they particularly want to attract and not all students pay full price. If you find one (or a few) that you think would be a good fit but out of reach financially, apply anyway! Don't go if you can't afford it, but if they offer you a decent scholarship you may be able to go there for cheaper than a state school so it's worth applying if it's where you'd rather be.

If you are considering a religious school, you should find out what religion they are and how they "live" that religion as a school in terms of campus life and student expectations. I'm not going to get into any specifics on this board beyond just saying that I've seen several cases of someone not really thinking about the school they chose being a religious school until they got there and then they ran into one or more issues with the student code of conduct and were surprised by something or other being allowed/expected/prohibited/required/whatever. Codes of conduct are usually online, so you can see what you're getting into before you apply.

I ended up going to a small Liberal Arts College with regionally-decent reputation that gave me a scholarship. My "college experience" was very, very different than someone who went to a giant state university. Most of my classes had under 30 students in them and were taught by tenure-track professors even when I was a freshman. Our departments were small and it was quite possible to get to know your professors pretty well. (This is both good and bad - my initial "advisor" was one of two faculty members in my area of study and we did not get along well because he "didn't believe in learning disabilities" and thought it was a matter of laziness/effort. I eventually showed him differently when I was one of 7 students in a class he taught while I was a sophomore and he got to see that I found "easy" things hard but "hard" things easy and thus was not simply lazy or stupid but rather "different", but I still avoided taking classes from him when possible all four years of undergrad.) I had most of my professors for more than one class and many of them knew my name when they'd run into me in the department offices. I was also easily able to "walk on" to the various competition teams I was interested in because of school size. (I participated in three different math or computer science competitions my senior year just because I found it kind of amusing to do so as a communication major and because I had friends who were doing some of them. I did pretty well by my school's standards on one of them, and my name is probably still on a plaque in the math department hallway as a result.)

If you go to a large state university and need to take a math class of calculus or lower, find out if credits transfer easily from the local community college. It will probably have smaller classes with more teaching-focused instructors, and cost less as well. Many large state universities either have their math graduate students teach those classes or run them as giant lectures. In my state lower division math credits transfer pretty well so this is a safe bet, at least the last time I paid attention. Your state may vary and you should check local conditions. Classes above calculus may be worth taking at your actual university, particularly if they are taught by tenure-track faculty so you can start to build relationships. (If you don't need anything above calc for your major or minor, you can ignore the "taking classes above calculus on campus" part unless you just like taking math classes for fun.)

Don't get in over your head with activities right away. It's easy to sign up for everything that looks interesting and then not have time for it all. Learn how to cook simple things that don't need much equipment, since you probably won't have a place to store lots of pots and pans. (I had to share a kitchen with the rest of my dorm, so I kept one pot with a lid and one sheet pan in my dorm room closet, and basically cooked everything using one or both of those.)

[TheFederalist]

You will save upwards of $30,000 if you take two years at community college first, and your classes will be better because the class size is smaller.
As good as that sounds, most of my applications have already gone, and most of them are fairly expensive. Parents are paying, since I can't take out loans, so I really wish I had heard this advice in junior year of high school.

If the course structure allows for it, this is very important. It makes your life much better. It's also a way to be informed about how things actually function, which rights you have, whom you should contact if teachers or offices aren't doing their job...
If I'm one of those kids who ends up talking a lot if they're with a group of people, should I just try and study on my own instead, or should I go anyways and try to make sure I keep shut?

I sent this as a PM to another user on here, and I don't think they would mind if I shared, since nothing is unique to them.

Always get to class early. If you're ever late, the temptation to skip is much stronger, and that can build on itself very easily.

On the first day, that goes double; you get to pick your seat, which most people just stay in the rest of the semester. Sitting up front has a lot of advantages. You're more recognizable to the professor, which helps if you need their help for anything. Also, it makes you realize that you're more recognizable, and you'll subconsciously pay more attention. Also, nobody's in your way, and you can see the boards perfectly. Lastly, when class is over, if you have any questions for the professor, you'll almost always not have to wait on other students who do as well.

Only if you're able to handle it, do as many morning classes as you can. While everyone else is sleeping in, you're getting your classes done. While everyone else is at classes, you're getting your studying done. When the studious people are studying, you can help them and get bonus studying done or help out others that need it and make better friends and stronger connections. Conversely, when the non-studious people are partying, you have all your stuff done already, and can party. It's college, have fun with it.

The fancier the school, the more you want to make friends with the people who do the best in class. See if they have a study group, or if they're willing to help if you're struggling. It never hurts to have friends in high places, and that increases your odds of it. Don't discount the value of networking.

Everyone will tell you to do the work, for some classes every hour of lecture needs 3 hours of study, etc etc. What they don't tell you is that, similar to how magic and advanced technology are indistinguishable, so are natural inclination and hard work. If you don't feel like you are good at a subject, spend more time on it. If you excel at something, don't just blow it off because of that.

For the love of god, don't ever cheat. Academia takes that more seriously than you can imagine, and it's not worth the risk. BUT! If you can, game the system. Take every advantage you can get. For instance, let's say you need a Calculus and Pre-Cal class as requirements for your major, and you don't care about electives. Let's say your uni offers Pre-Cal Algebra, Pre-Cal Algebra with Trig, and Trig. All will help you with Calculus, and if you take all three (even though you only need the Pre-Cal with Trig), you'll basically be going over mostly the same information in three classes, which makes them all easier, and gives you three times the A's that only taking one would give you, without significantly increasing your study load.

Ignore people who say to take electives or other classes to help round you out, especially if you're thinking about doing grad school. They don't look to see if you took classes to round you out. They look at your GPA. Given how much your degree is gonna cost, classes that count for nothing but hours are better used to help knock your grade up then to learn the very basics about something you'll forget in a year anyway.

This may sound silly, but totally take Ballroom Dancing if they offer it. You'll get to meet new people better than in a Pre-Cal class, for instance, and later on in life, if you ever want to try to impress a date, you know ballroom dancing, and that's kind of awesome.

Oh, one more thing. Get into the fanciest school you can and ace all your classes, so you can hook up your good silver dragon friend with a job sometime if ever in need.:smallwink:
Thank you (for the advice and for thinking I had the balls to cheat :smallbiggrin:)! Unfortunately, I'll be polisci into military and possibly law, so in 60% of my futures I can only hook you up with another box on the same alleyway as me :smallwink:

Studying wise:
Don't cram for midterms/finals, or at least make sure to keep exercising, eating and sleeping. You won't get any benefit to studying for 12 hours straight, sleeping for 2 and then going to take a test, you're much better off getting a good night's sleep and a few hours of studying. Sleep deprivation has similar effects on the brain/cognition to intoxication, if you wouldn't show up for a test drunk, don't show up sleep deprived either.

Study groups can be good, but if they have the wrong people in them, they won't be productive.

Get stuff started early if you have larger blocks of time between assignment and due date.

Many of my math and computer science classes had recommended problem sets that were never collected (basically homework that was never due), be sure to do these, they help you learn the material and often are very closely related to what shows up on tests.

Social wise:
Check out events hosted by the different clubs on campus, if it's a good group of people, stick with the club/group/team/whatever, if it isn't, don't be afraid to walk away from it.

Peer pressure stops when you say yes.

Peer pressure stops when you're out of earshot/communication with a group.

One of the previous two is much healthier than the other, you can figure out which.

Medical wise:
Google medical amnesty laws for your area, I went to University of Minnesota-Twin Cities and grew up in MN, so I don't know exactly how WI has the laws set up, but take people to the hospital if they need it! There should be some degree of legal protection for intoxicated minors/illegal substances if you are taking them to the ER. Note that I'm not a legal scholar of any sort and I believe board rules prohibit me from giving legal advice beyond saying you should look up the medical amnesty laws. They are really good to know. (I've helped bring people to the hospital from parties before, be the person helping take them there, not the semi-conscious idiot getting taken there.)

Drink/smoke/inject/other responsibly if you do it at all. (Again, you don't have to do any of these.)

I am not advocating breaking any laws, but if you choose to do so, do it safely.
Thank you! I'm not a drinker, but I'm sure even I can fall prey to that stuff, especially with dares. As for social events, should I look into Greek Life? I'm really extroverted and really enjoy hanging out with people but I've only heard bad things about Greek life recently, even if it looks fun as heck.

Okay, I'm a limey, but here's my uni advice:
-Make sure you're competent at cooking. Not just 'knows the basics', but enough to buy whatever's cheap and cook it. A tin of tomatoes, some pasta, and fresh vegetables is cheap and filling*.
-Make sure you have an alarm that can get you up. Then wake up at the very least half an hour before your first lecture, ideally at the same time every day. Work out how much time it takes to get to your lecture, of you live on campus give yourself five more minutes travel time, otherwise take the less of double or an extra half hour at minimum.
-Parties are fine. A party every day is not. Know your limits, don't stay out too late, and don't do anything stupid when you're drunk (that's legal when you're just going to uni in America, right?).
-With regards to drinking, if you do so moderation is key. Blah blah, I won't lecture you but of someone seems to be having problems help them.
-Check out your chaplaincy, some are really religious and some just attempt to provide students with a place to chill out (I was the most religious regular at mine by my this year).
-It is not funny to set the fire alarm off. Especially at three in the morning. Especially during exam time. Especially of it's in the middle of winter. Especially if somebody set the body alarm off at two o'clock.
-Hide your clean cutlery in your room.
-Keep your pans washed, is the one way I set off the fire alarm.
-Everybody wants microwaves, but what's more useful is an electric kettle. With a decent power supply they boil Easter quickly, great for when you need to fill a thermos for your 9 o'clock lecture in a hurry.
-Most halls (I think dorms are the American equivalent) ban playing music out loud late at night. Most do not ban vacuuming your room at seven o'clock in the morning. If you hear the latter somebody's probably done the former.
-Set aside one afternoon or weekend a week. This is where you'll do all your housework tasks. I used the following order when in halls: put washing on, dust surfaces, clean desk, hoover floor, move washing into tumble drier, clean bathroom, mop bathroom, empty bin, put washing away. You may not have a bathroom you're responsible for and may be responsible for your kitchen area, make you're own list.
-On that note, lists! Every day when you wake up (or the night before) make a list of what you need to do today, add to it and cross items off during the day as required. This will vastly increase your productivity.
-When studying take breaks. This is hard, try not to break a state of flow but don't let boredom make you take them every five minutes.
-If you are going to be watching videos in your room, entertainment, educational, or especially woman with extra chromosome, get headphones.
-Eating an entire jar of picked beyond sounds like a good idea, and it is. The following are not: drinking an entire bottle of vodka in one sitting before going to the club, putting wheelie bins on cars, jumping in lakes or ponds, inviting sexist speakers to society events, buying rockets to events just so you can walk out when Katie Hopkins appears, chatting to the cure French girl. These all happened during my time at university, although I only personally did the last (there's even a couple of news stories around about the Hall emptying when Katie Hopkins appeared).




* I realise that ingredients can be relatively more expensive in some pasta of America, I could probably get three or four portions for £10, and I have to east double ones. I tended to go for a bit more and only get two portions, but it was still cheaper than the canteen.

Thank you! Most of the advice still applies, and up here in beautiful Wisco, pasta is pretty dang cheap. Thankfully, I know how to cook pasta, but it's really calorie-high things, so I'll probably have to start looking into learning more.

[Tvtyrant]

As good as that sounds, most of my applications have already gone, and most of them are fairly expensive. Parents are paying, since I can't take out loans, so I really wish I had heard this advice in junior year of high school.


I hear you there. Advisors in high school suck, they never give you real advice.

[TheFederalist]

I went to college for two years, the first year in which scholarships paid my way, the second the college (whose name I legally can't disclose) "paid" me to attend, provided I continued to play a certain sport. This meant that the second year I didn't have to study at all, so 1)I partied a lot:smallbiggrin: 2) I was able to take a step back and really analyze college. I've also ended up pulling in six figures, and made my first million by the age of 23, without the need for a degree. Hence, I do have some credit to my following advice. However, being male, I can't give accurate advice if OP is a female, because college treats them differently, but some of it still holds true.


The Bad:
1) College is a government cash cow. You spend approxiamately 5 years (the average time taken in the USA to complete a 4-year degree) and receive a piece of paper that for most of the population, isn't going to amount to much (unless you study to become a doctor/lawyer/something that truly requires the training, and then actually do the profession you studied for) as well as be +$100,000 US Dollars in debt. This means when you leave college, you probably won't be any traveling the world, having fun, etc. You'll need to get employed so you can pay for something that's price has risen way faster than inflation, for no apparent reason except that people are willing to pay for it.

2) Your college degree doesn't mean jack in 90% of jobs, and in the 10% it does matter (doctor/lawyer) it only really matters when you first seek employment anyway. An that is only if you don't have someone on the inside helping get you employed. If you have good connections, it will do even less.

The Good:
1) The average american male has 3 choice out of high school. A) College
B) Enlistment
C) Minimum-wage job, probably in your home town meaning you'll still be living with your parents.

If you are female add:
D) Sex work

Of course, you can always start you own business, travel the world, get into crime, etc. but 95% of the people at my 5 year high school reunion chose one of those three/four options. Of the four, college is IMO the best for average joe (though sex work, if you can put up with people judging you and not develop of drug addiction, can set you up for life in ~10-20 years depending on your lifestyle and how money savvy you are).

2)While the education normally isn't worth it, the social experience is provided you capitalize on your oppurtunity. This means:
A) Building a broad, strong network of connection in many fields.
B) Devoloping your self-confidence
C) (If you are a male) Learning how to and getting laid... a lot


Top Tips:
1) Don't pay much for college.

Unless you are become a doctor/lawyer/etc. where your actually school matters, going to an in-state state university, preferably with a decent football/basketball team. Why? Because a large college is easier, both the work-load and being able to cheat, and in-state tuition is much cheaper.

Get as many scholarships as you can. If you are decent at a sport, see if you can get a sport scholarship. Academic scholarship are easy to get, and if you are Caucasian, it doesn't hurt to answer the question "what race do you most align yourself with" on your application with a minority group, provided you look somewhat like you could be. (Make sure you check the wording of the question. Also, I am not a lawyer, so don't take this as sound legal advice. This is just what worked for me.) If you are able to align yourself with minority enough to pass college interviews, you will probably gain some scholarship from this, although they will not say it because of you race. If you ever have any troubles with this, threaten them with a lawsuit. (When I told the college that I wouldn't be attending after my first year, they found out I was Caucasian and not Native America, and threaten to sue me for misleading information leading to extra funding that I didn't deserve. The next day, I walked in with one of my dad's friends, who was suited up with a briefcase, claiming to be a lawyer. He told them that we where going to counter-she for discrimination, because scholarships granted on race alone was exactly that. The bought it, and agreed to settle by giving me my next year all-expenses paid if I continued to play football for them.)

2) If you are good at a sport, join the team.

You may get a scholarship, and if you are a male, you have just become a whole lot more desirable with the female populus of your social via the social status you've gained. If you are of minority descent, you have to stick to main-stream sports to get the full effect (I'm not being racist, it's just the way it is). If you're a good-looking white guy, you can join teams such as tennis or lacrosse, but football/basketball is still the best way to go. Plus the team atmosphere really gives you a chance to make good friends, which is a massive bonus.

3) If you can't/don't want to join a sports team, join a cool frat.

Greek life is great life bro-man:smalltongue: Honestly, if you are decent with people (not the fat frat bro that will eat anything) and you join a cool frat (not the nerd-frat or a minority frat) you are going to get a lot of party invites, a lot of friends, and a lot of the P. To tell if a frat is cool or not, go to there rush events at the start of the year, and see which one has the most hot chicks (I know, I probably sound sexist AF, but these are the facts). The one with the most hot chicks are the coolest. Being a cool guy in a cool frat means mega-bucks for your social status!

Personally, I played football and rushed a frat, which was good especially in the second year when I had a lot of free time other kids where devoting to studying. However, I was never top of my class in college, because a lot of time was spent socializing. (although, as long as your passing you classes, you are doing enough, (doctors/lawyers exempt from this))

4) Get Laid

This does a hell of a lot for your self-esteem, plus college is one place in the world where average joe with average game can get laid like Casinova. Take advantage of this, it will do you a world of good.

5) Realize Social Status is King

If college had a currency, it would be social status. And the cool guys who hang with others cool guys are the millionaires. And everything in college cost. Want to be invited to a lot of parties, you need the status. Want to get the cute blonde in the corner, status helps. Want someone to make a distaction while you cheat on a test, people will do that if your cool. And the best thing about being cool is that it's easy.

Coolness = Giving more status to a person/situation than you take + Not getting taken advatage of + How easy you make getting what you want look

If you need more help with this, check out websites like GoodLookingLoser (https://www.goodlookingloser.com)or Girlschase (http://www.girlschase.com/articles). (I'm not affiliated so I can't speak for all their content, but the boys tend to know what they are talking about)

6) Don't Spend to Much Time Gaming

Playing Madden on a Tuesday afternoon with your frat bros is a great way to recover from a four-day bender. However, spending every weekend in your room playing some MMO is a could way to waste your opportunity. Moderation is key. Also, think about stepping away from table top gaming for a while, or keeping it on the down-low. I get called 'a cool guy/have a cool life' or whatever, so people are sometimes surprise that I play D&D. However, I don't get all nerdy with people who don't game, and so people don't give a crap and still think I'm cool. That's in the real world. In college, kids are ruthless, and most of college is made up of people fighting for mid-social status roles, who will look for any opportunity to bring you down. And sadly, D&D isn't cool, so it will hit your social status pretty hard. That doesn't mean be ***** to the guys/gals that chose to game, the coolest guys are only ***** to guys that are ***** to them first, but I would recommend spending you time in college trying out different interests, and returning to table top gaming afterwards.

7) Don't Judge (especially chicks)

Learn this now. Chicks love sex. Guys loves sex. Chicks slut-shame other chicks, so they themselves can get better boyfriends, by remove competition. Guys who can't get any slut-shame chicks. It's sad that even in college girls don't get the freedom guys get when it comes to sex (I'm not a feminist, I think the pay-gap is bull-hockey, but this is the truth.) Instead, help girls explore their bodies, and do it discreetly. Even if you bang the hottest chick in school, don't go spreading it. If you're a guy who kiss-and-tells, you won't be doing much kissing.

7) AND THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE OF COLLEGE

If you're a guy, never get into a monogamous relationship. Trust me. I don't care if the school's hottest cheerleader wants to date you. By all means, bang her for as long as she'll stick around waiting for you to get committed, but don't get monogamous. Ever.

If you a girl, date the college's starting QB, and keep your sexploits discreet (I know you won't listen to me, and you're still going to tell your friends, because let's face it, sex is fun to talk about) But I can't tell you how many times I've seen a girl's BFF this week be 'that B*tch' next week.

Hope this helps.
First, congrats on having the life I totally want to have, but unfortunately my chances of track or XC scholarships got thrown out the window with my last season ending on an injury, so some of this isn't applicable though I plan on changing that much as possible. On a more on topic note, my parents have agreed to pay for my college since I have no other options (no SSN, no FAFSA), which they can handle for a decently priced college (in state and places below 35k a year). Honestly, I won't lie, there was a significant ego issue in my choices of college, especially since I'd convinced myself I'd be making connections the entire time. As for your seven phrases of advice, I gather its not actually too different from high school in the social format then? Because then I should do just fine, especially if I keep my mouth shut about nerding out online :smalltongue:. Also, thanks for the advice on Greek life even more so than the other advice, you've given the final push in my decision to do it.

Drinking is perfectly legal at age 21.

Setting off the fire alarm, however, is VERY illegal, unless there's an actual fire. The fire department wholeheartedly agrees with you that it is not funny.

I think you may have an unrealistic idea of the average American college dorm room.

What's a Katie Hopkins? And what's wrong with chatting to the cute French girl?
Having lived in Boston in a majority Chinese immigrant student apartment building once upon a time, I whole heartedly agree on the fire alarm. And so do my poor feet, walking through the snow every second week at 3 AM. Also, same questions on the Katie Hopkins and cute French girl. (Though I make a fair bit of "haha the French" jokes so I presume that's issue number 1! Mostly jk)

This is a perfect summary of why I think the American education system is a load of bull. I'm not blaming Toro or anything he said, I blame the system.

Here's my own contribution, though since it's from a European perspective I'm not sure how useful will it be:

1. College/uni is the time of life when you will have more free time than ever before - or after. This makes it very tempting to be lazy and party all night or play video games all day every day. Don't give into that temptation. Do your work, at least a little work, and more than a few days before deadlines. Otherwise you'll find yourself in for a rude awakening.

2. Building a rapport with lecturers is important. If you have questions regarding some subject, ask them after class. Most lecturers have specific hours for meeting with students (once again, might be a non-American thing) and 90% of the time no one's interested so visiting will make you look like you truly care. On the other hand the 10% (usually when projects are due or exams are near) is incredibly crowded so best do your business earlier if you can afford it. If lecturers know who you are and know you are trying to learn something, you'll find soon enough that...

3. Everything can be negotiated. Deadlines are not set in stone. Grades you receive can be changed. All of that depends only on the lecturers' goodwill, and that goodwill is the higher the more you look like someone who cares about the subject matter and wants to seriously learn something in class as opposed to attending it just to pass.

4. Learn where you can go if things don't run smoothly. Fellow students causing trouble - smoking in dorms, loud music late at night? There's an office where you can go complain, you just need to know it exists and do it. Many unis also offer healthcare options for their students, physical or psychological. Once again, knowing the US this is unlikely for American colleges but it won't hurt to check.

5. Let's face it, so many lecturers like to pretend like their class is the only important thing you're having this semester and you'll need to study 8 hours for every 1 hour of lecture. You need to recognize which classes really will require more work, and which you can afford to spend less effort at. Don't ignore them altogether but don't think about doing all at the same time. You'll get overwhelmed. It's much better to compartmentalize and think of tasks that await you in small, easy to digest chunks. This is good advice for everything in life by the way, not just college.
Thank you! One question is, what do I do with a professor who doesn't care in an important/hard class? Mainly something I ask out of fear of the horror stories I've heard about researchers being forced to teach but can't really teach at all.
(Also, all the college campuses I've been on offer medical and good student healthcare, if that redeems any bit of our healthcare system)


Also, thanks everyone for the large amounts of advice coming in! I'll do my best to heed it all!

[Astral Avenger]

I never interacted with greek life beyond having a handful of my friends be involved. Mostly heard them complaining about pledge week and various drama happening in the fraternity/sorority, so I don't have the best impression of them.

I'm also very introverted, so having community from the climbing wall and Nordic team was plenty for me, but to each their own.

With drinking, most people will respect you saying that you dont drink/not drinking, but some *beep* will try and pressure you into drinking, dont be friends with those people, they're the worst people. People offering a beer or something when you walk in is being polite, trying to spike your drink or get you to drink more than you want is a good way to figure out who you should stop interacting with.

[2D8HP]

1) The average american male has 3 choice out of high school. A) College
B) Enlistment
C) Minimum-wage job, probably in your home town meaning you'll still be living with your parents....
Well there is another alternative.

A skilled trade apprenticeship.

I strongly recommend the book: “Shop Class as Soulcraft” (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/books/review/Fukuyama-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&referer=), if that's an option for you.

To find employment, what (years ago) worked for me was the:

California Apprenticeship Coordinators Association (http://www.calapprenticeship.org/)

To quote their site:

"A union apprenticeship is an excellent career choice if you like to work with your hands; are willing to serve an apprenticeship for up to five years, depending on the trade you select; have dexterity, mechanical ability, problem-solving skills and the ability to work collaboratively with a team; want to earn a living wage and good benefits; and want the opportunity to advance in your career"

Note: Sitting around reading books sounds like heaven to me (and judging by the college textbooks my wife kept they're some good ones), but I have a higher income than my brother, who did go to college, and even my co-workers who did go to college regard me as more educated (one called me "the professor" but I think he basically majored in basketball and hanging out).

But be warned, "blue collar" physically ages you faster than "white collar" work.

-Good luck

[TheFederalist]

I never interacted with greek life beyond having a handful of my friends be involved. Mostly heard them complaining about pledge week and various drama happening in the fraternity/sorority, so I don't have the best impression of them.

I'm also very introverted, so having community from the climbing wall and Nordic team was plenty for me, but to each their own.

With drinking, most people will respect you saying that you dont drink/not drinking, but some *beep* will try and pressure you into drinking, dont be friends with those people, they're the worst people. People offering a beer or something when you walk in is being polite, trying to spike your drink or get you to drink more than you want is a good way to figure out who you should stop interacting with.
Thanks! That's pretty good advice for more than just college, too!

.
Well there is another alternative.

A skilled trade apprenticeship.

I strongly recommend the book: “Shop Class as Soulcraft” (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/books/review/Fukuyama-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&referer=), if that's an option for you.

To find employment, what (years ago) worked for me was the:

California Apprenticeship Coordinators Association (http://www.calapprenticeship.org/)

To quote their site:

"A union apprenticeship is an excellent career choice if you like to work with your hands; are willing to serve an apprenticeship for up to five years, depending on the trade you select; have dexterity, mechanical ability, problem-solving skills and the ability to work collaboratively with a team; want to earn a living wage and good benefits; and want the opportunity to advance in your career"

Note: Sitting around reading books sounds like heaven to me (and judging by the college textbooks my wife kept they're some good ones), but I have a higher income than my brother, who did go to college, and even my co-workers who did go to college regard me as more educated (one called me "the professor" but I think he basically majored in basketball and hanging out).

But be warned, "blue collar" physically ages you faster than "white collar" work.

-Good luck
Unfortunately, not an option. I'm not only Asian, but an immigrant, so I have to go to college for... a great variety of sub-reasons that I'd rather not disclose for purposes of identity, if you don't mind. Still, I have more than once argued with my parents about how viable apprenticeships are, so thank you for the suggestion too!

[WarKitty]

Thank you! One question is, what do I do with a professor who doesn't care in an important/hard class? Mainly something I ask out of fear of the horror stories I've heard about researchers being forced to teach but can't really teach at all.
(Also, all the college campuses I've been on offer medical and good student healthcare, if that redeems any bit of our healthcare system)


Also, thanks everyone for the large amounts of advice coming in! I'll do my best to heed it all!

You tend to get those professors more at research universities. The side effect of this is those universities tend to have TA's.

TA's are, generally speaking, your friend. (I was one.) They're generally not handling as many students as the professor is. They're also still taking classes, and as such tend to be more realistic.

Office hours are good, but most TA's will work another time out if you can't make it. That said - if you schedule a time outside of normal office hours, SHOW UP. Nothing annoyed me more than trekking into campus for a meeting, only to have the student blow it off with no explanation and no apology. If a student did that twice, no more meetings.

If you're having trouble, go early. A lot of students don't show up until before midterms or finals. One, this means the TA has less time for you individually. Two, the longer you let it go the harder it is to fix problems, rather than helping you get a better ground early. Three, it just looks better. Email is an option for minor issues, but don't leave it to the last minute.

Keep in mind the TA probably does know if you've been showing up to class and doing your homework. It won't look good if you haven't. If there's a genuine problem, explain and ask for help early. A student that emailed me and explained why they couldn't make it would generally get the benefit of the doubt, unless they pulled it a LOT or had a dumb excuse (and even those I'd take once). If you have disability accommodations, everyone's also required to abide by them, but the lack of official accommodations doesn't mean an individual can't offer them.

Never, ever ask to have your grade changed unless you have a reason based on your work or the course, though. It's just annoying, and it will probably make the teacher hate you. That said, really, in the vast majority of fields, no one cares all that much if you didn't get straight A's.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Socially speaking, there's still a lot of high school attitudes, but that tends to change through the years. By senior year, I realized how little I cared who was dating/kissing/sexing who, what parties anyone was going to, who drank or didn't drink, who said what about who, and all that. Which is good, because once you get out of college the people who still talk like that are not looked on favorably.

Different people do different things socially. I know a lot of people who met their significant other in college and are now married and settled down with them. That said, a lot of people don't. And likely you won't keep up with very many of your college friends past college, maybe just a very few people you really clicked with. So if it's not your things socially, don't stress.

If you can, I'd look for a part-time, on-campus job. But given any non-citizen status, I would run this by the university's advisers first - many of them have a department that deals with such things. Immigration law and work can be really complicated.

[Douglas]

One possibility to look into, depending on your college and choice of major, is something called cooperative education. It's a fairly common type of program where various companies coordinate with the college to offer entry level temporary jobs in the industry you're studying to work for to students as part of your education. You take classes for a semester, you go work for a semester, you come back to classes again, and keep alternating for a while. It takes a bit longer to graduate because of all the semesters where you're not taking classes, but that's typically reduced a lot by including summer in the rotation and you'll have practical and relevant experience to put on your résumé as well as academics, and that can make a big difference to employers when you graduate. Depending on the job you may also get paid a substantial amount of money in your work semesters, which can go a long way toward mitigating education loan debt. If you really impress your employer you might even have a permanent job offer waiting for you on graduation. Also, practical and relevant job experience. It really is educational, and will be useful for more than getting employer attention.

And now, a brief warning story:
In my first semester of college, all the introductory courses I was taking did not challenge me. At all. I could just about sleep through them and have no trouble on the tests. That semester taught me that I could skip class a substantial amount of the time without it affecting how I did in the class very much. I spent the rest of my college time all the way through graduation struggling to reverse that bad habit. The later courses were not nearly so non-challenging, and habitually skipping class caused me major problems with my grades.

If your classes seem easy, take them seriously anyway, at least enough to go to class, pay attention, and do your work promptly. It's fine to spend extra time on partying and games, but first make sure that it really is extra time. Being in that habit will be important later when you get to the harder classes.

[Anonymouswizard]

Drinking is perfectly legal at age 21.

Which I find weird, I was drinking legally with meals in restaurants since I was 16, and pubs since I was 18. My point was literally 'even if you're underage you or a friend will drink, if you do moderation, if it's a friend make sure to look pot for them.


Setting off the fire alarm, however, is VERY illegal, unless there's an actual fire. The fire department wholeheartedly agrees with you that it is not funny.

Oh, it's illegal over here as well. But the drink first years don't realise that. Or the drink third years.


I think you may have an unrealistic idea of the average American college dorm room.

Messy as heck, hasn't been cleaned in three months, has developed three new species of intelligent mould that have started their own society? If not, then certainly. My point was cutlery goes missing, I always ended up with one knife and one fork by the third month, which I'd recover when Is the last to move out, if I was lucky. Ended up with all the teaspoons the others left though (they would have been thrown out otherwise).


What's a Katie Hopkins? And what's wrong with chatting to the cute French girl?

Katie Hopkins it's a journalist over here known for being rather offensive to those who aren't white conservative Brits. My university had a relatively high proportion of foreign students and a large but relatively inactive number of socialist students. And talking to the cure French girl is why I'm currently trying to learn French.


OP, a note. If you don't have sex at university there's nothing wrong with that. It's considered standard to many people, bit of you don't want to or just don't have the opportunity, that's completely fine. I spent five years at university, my girlfriend's (for a certain value of relationship) doing her sixth, and we're both still virgins.

[Peelee]

Which I find weird, I was drinking legally with meals in restaurants since I was 16, and pubs since I was 18. My point was literally 'even if you're underage you or a friend will drink, if you do moderation, if it's a friend make sure to look pot for them.



Oh, it's illegal over here as well. But the drink first years don't realise that. Or the drink third years.



Messy as heck, hasn't been cleaned in three months, has developed three new species of intelligent mould that have started their own society? If not, then certainly. My point was cutlery goes missing, I always ended up with one knife and one fork by the third month, which I'd recover when Is the last to move out, if I was lucky. Ended up with all the teaspoons the others left though (they would have been thrown out otherwise).



Katie Hopkins it's a journalist over here known for being rather offensive to those who aren't white conservative Brits. My university had a relatively high proportion of foreign students and a large but relatively inactive number of socialist students. And talking to the cure French girl is why I'm currently trying to learn French.


OP, a note. If you don't have sex at university there's nothing wrong with that. It's considered standard to many people, bit of you don't want to or just don't have the opportunity, that's completely fine. I spent five years at university, my girlfriend's (for a certain value of relationship) doing her sixth, and we're both still virgins.

My point about the dorm room wasn't the quality so much as the quantity. Mine was a little larger than my closet back on my parents house. Enough room for two beds, two desks, two tiny closets, and a window. Some places have nicer dorms, of course, but I think that is relatively standard.

Also, is the cute French girl the same as the girlfriend? I'm intrigued now. How did it go? Details, man!

[TheFederalist]

You tend to get those professors more at research universities. The side effect of this is those universities tend to have TA's.

TA's are, generally speaking, your friend. (I was one.) They're generally not handling as many students as the professor is. They're also still taking classes, and as such tend to be more realistic.

Office hours are good, but most TA's will work another time out if you can't make it. That said - if you schedule a time outside of normal office hours, SHOW UP. Nothing annoyed me more than trekking into campus for a meeting, only to have the student blow it off with no explanation and no apology. If a student did that twice, no more meetings.

If you're having trouble, go early. A lot of students don't show up until before midterms or finals. One, this means the TA has less time for you individually. Two, the longer you let it go the harder it is to fix problems, rather than helping you get a better ground early. Three, it just looks better. Email is an option for minor issues, but don't leave it to the last minute.

Keep in mind the TA probably does know if you've been showing up to class and doing your homework. It won't look good if you haven't. If there's a genuine problem, explain and ask for help early. A student that emailed me and explained why they couldn't make it would generally get the benefit of the doubt, unless they pulled it a LOT or had a dumb excuse (and even those I'd take once). If you have disability accommodations, everyone's also required to abide by them, but the lack of official accommodations doesn't mean an individual can't offer them.

Never, ever ask to have your grade changed unless you have a reason based on your work or the course, though. It's just annoying, and it will probably make the teacher hate you. That said, really, in the vast majority of fields, no one cares all that much if you didn't get straight A's.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Socially speaking, there's still a lot of high school attitudes, but that tends to change through the years. By senior year, I realized how little I cared who was dating/kissing/sexing who, what parties anyone was going to, who drank or didn't drink, who said what about who, and all that. Which is good, because once you get out of college the people who still talk like that are not looked on favorably.

Different people do different things socially. I know a lot of people who met their significant other in college and are now married and settled down with them. That said, a lot of people don't. And likely you won't keep up with very many of your college friends past college, maybe just a very few people you really clicked with. So if it's not your things socially, don't stress.

If you can, I'd look for a part-time, on-campus job. But given any non-citizen status, I would run this by the university's advisers first - many of them have a department that deals with such things. Immigration law and work can be really complicated.

Aye, understood! Work will be a guaranteed no-no unless something changes, and I have no intention of making the IRS mad, so at least that means more study or partay time. Sorry to throw so many questions, but any tips on finding who the best TAs are? I've heard from others that I've gotta figure out which ones are cool and which ones might be less cool, to use a more forum appropriate word from what I was originally told.


One possibility to look into, depending on your college and choice of major, is something called cooperative education. It's a fairly common type of program where various companies coordinate with the college to offer entry level temporary jobs in the industry you're studying to work for to students as part of your education. You take classes for a semester, you go work for a semester, you come back to classes again, and keep alternating for a while. It takes a bit longer to graduate because of all the semesters where you're not taking classes, but that's typically reduced a lot by including summer in the rotation and you'll have practical and relevant experience to put on your résumé as well as academics, and that can make a big difference to employers when you graduate. Depending on the job you may also get paid a substantial amount of money in your work semesters, which can go a long way toward mitigating education loan debt. If you really impress your employer you might even have a permanent job offer waiting for you on graduation. Also, practical and relevant job experience. It really is educational, and will be useful for more than getting employer attention.

And now, a brief warning story:
In my first semester of college, all the introductory courses I was taking did not challenge me. At all. I could just about sleep through them and have no trouble on the tests. That semester taught me that I could skip class a substantial amount of the time without it affecting how I did in the class very much. I spent the rest of my college time all the way through graduation struggling to reverse that bad habit. The later courses were not nearly so non-challenging, and habitually skipping class caused me major problems with my grades.

If your classes seem easy, take them seriously anyway, at least enough to go to class, pay attention, and do your work promptly. It's fine to spend extra time on partying and games, but first make sure that it really is extra time. Being in that habit will be important later when you get to the harder classes.
Aye, my grades are pretty high because I've found high school pretty easy, so I know that my study habits are worse than a chairs, so I plan on fixing that by freshman year, even if I have easy classes. AFAIK, life ain't easy, so I want to be able to actually be ready for stuff that gets thrown at me. As for cooperative education, I think I've heard of that! I definitely will look into it, though I figure they're just gonna have to forgo on the "paying me" part.

Which I find weird, I was drinking legally with meals in restaurants since I was 16, and pubs since I was 18. My point was literally 'even if you're underage you or a friend will drink, if you do moderation, if it's a friend make sure to look pot for them.



Oh, it's illegal over here as well. But the drink first years don't realise that. Or the drink third years.



Messy as heck, hasn't been cleaned in three months, has developed three new species of intelligent mould that have started their own society? If not, then certainly. My point was cutlery goes missing, I always ended up with one knife and one fork by the third month, which I'd recover when Is the last to move out, if I was lucky. Ended up with all the teaspoons the others left though (they would have been thrown out otherwise).



Katie Hopkins it's a journalist over here known for being rather offensive to those who aren't white conservative Brits. My university had a relatively high proportion of foreign students and a large but relatively inactive number of socialist students. And talking to the cure French girl is why I'm currently trying to learn French.
*immediately hopes for French transfer students*
In any case, there's a chance I get my own dorm, alone, what precautions do I take to make sure I can live alone? I haven't ever done anything without at least two other people staying with me, so I'm at a total loss for living alone. This is a broad question, but I genuinely haven 0 idea what living alone is like.

[quote]
OP, a note. If you don't have sex at university there's nothing wrong with that. It's considered standard to many people, bit of you don't want to or just don't have the opportunity, that's completely fine. I spent five years at university, my girlfriend's (for a certain value of relationship) doing her sixth, and we're both still virgins.
Oops.

college life - the best thing in the world)
Heyoooooo! I'll chalk one more up to the "college is fun af" side. That means it's winning over the "college is really hard" side by 6 people.

My point about the dorm room wasn't the quality so much as the quantity. Mine was a little larger than my closet back on my parents house. Enough room for two beds, two desks, two tiny closets, and a window. Some places have nicer dorms, of course, but I think that is relatively standard.

Also, is the cute French girl the same as the girlfriend? I'm intrigued now. How did it go? Details, man!

That is one really big closet, jeez.

[Vinyadan]

If I'm one of those kids who ends up talking a lot if they're with a group of people, should I just try and study on my own instead, or should I go anyways and try to make sure I keep shut?

I'd suggest you do it anyway, learning how to work in a group is the most important thing. However, it's true that there are different kinds of work. Translations and active exercises work very well in a group. But there also is "hard study", like mnemonic stuff, or working on a paper, which you can/must do alone. In this case it's up to you to understand if the presence of others makes you work better or worse. It also depends on the people you work with, I have seen that some students are very effective at saying "guys, let's stop fooling around and get back to work."

[Anonymouswizard]

My point about the dorm room wasn't the quality so much as the quantity. Mine was a little larger than my closet back on my parents house. Enough room for two beds, two desks, two tiny closets, and a window. Some places have nicer dorms, of course, but I think that is relatively standard.

Also, is the cute French girl the same as the girlfriend? I'm intrigued now. How did it go? Details, man!

My university actually had unusually nice rooms, being large enough for a bed, desk, chest of drawers, full sized wardrobe, and an ensuite, but most rooms I've heard about at other universities are closer to 'large closet'. Again, it was more a point that cutlery goes missing (I came out of university with one fork).

Yes, the cute French girl is the girlfriend, although it's not a relationship I really can't be asked to use the correct terminology. Long story short, most details are in the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, suffice to say that she didn't admit to having feelings for me until she was back in France. Now she refuses to have a LDR but it's trying to convince me to move to Paris.


On living on your own: have a schedule for when you do housework and buy ingredients. One is required to make food, the other will stop you from getting ill. Also, it's a lot easier to wash up just after the meal than it is three days later.

Also, make friends, especially with flatmates if you're in a flat arrangement, otherwise with whoever you can. Loneliness and homesickness can be a big problem, but even just having somebody to talk to about it (ideally over a cup of tea) can help. Events, societies, social places on campus, these are all good places to meet people.

If you're university offers a Buddy scheme for settling in (a second or third year to make sure you're alright and help with problems), it might be a good idea. Even if you don't need help you can never know that beforehand, and you might make a great friend (I went to my Buddy's wedding, and am one of the few university friends still in contract with them. He gets a lot of questions about relationships and of moving to France is a good idea these days).

[Nemirthel]

While I concur with what's been said about study groups being a good idea, there's a couple of caveats about them that haven't been mentioned.

1. Don't be a part of a study group where each person does part of the homework and then everyone turns in the same work. While not all freshmen realize it, that's cheating. You'll also only learn the part of the material that you did.

2. If there's one really assertive person who ends up dominating a study group, find a new group. Eventually people will stop challenging that person when they're wrong, and then no one will learn anything.

Another thing related to not arguing with instructors about grades: if you think something your professor assigned is unfair, don't bother complaining to your TA about it. They can't change it, so you're wasting their time and yours. I've had students do this, and I can assure you that even if your TA agrees with you it's not going to do you any good.

[SaintRidley]

If you're asking about TA quality, I'm going to assume you're probably going to a larger research university like the one I teach at (in year 5 of teaching here, my last year before I take a fellowship year to hopefully finish my diss and thesis and get done with grad school). In that case, you might not have a huge amount of choice in the matter - some larger schools basically have advisors (paid administrative people attached to departmenrts who are responsible for helping, among other things, undergrads in their department schedule out the next semester's courseload) do pretty much the whole schedule for you. Something like >80% of the students who walk into my classroom at the beginning of the semester have never so much as looked at my course description or have any idea what the course will entail other than the department-mandated part of the course title. I'll have at most maybe three students in a course who deliberately chose my course over another course that fills the same requirement because of the description or because they heard from a friend or partner that I was good.

What I'm saying is it's really not hugely within your control, so just roll with it. TAs are happy to help, and few of us are so completely horrible that it's a problem. Depending on how much control we have over our course design (I completely design my course from scratch, but a TA in another department might be under a more tightly controlled template), we're mostly interested in trying to give you (in a gen ed course) the best first impression of the field and kind of thinking we do to help expand your repertoire of critical skills.

If a class is discussion based, participate. Ask questions or contribute points or volunteer a difficult section of that day's reading that you want clarification on but aren't even sure where to begin.

Email and use office hours. They're entirely for you - I will drop whatever it is I am doing the moment a student comes in during my office hours.

Do also be patient with your TAs. Many are in their first years teaching anything, many of them are also taking courses (and their advisors will tell them that their work is more important than your work [and yet, working with your work is the work that gets us paid, so, you know, not entirely], so you will wind up on the backburner at one point or another as the TA tries to work out that time management), and many of them are absolutely spent because of it. The workload of a TA in coursework is tough.

Happy to answer other questions if you have them.

[Scarlet Knight]

Wow, it's been so long since I went to college, I wonder what still applies. However, I can tell what college means after you graduate.

Do not listen to Toro. What he states is technically true, but only for the 1% of athletes good enough to be paid to play and for children of rich businessmen who have high paying jobs waiting for them no matter how stupid they are.

For the rest, well, remember: 2/3's of high school kids go to college in the US. That means a good percent will go to college and make salaries below the national average, just by the math. Still better than not going. Your major IS important. It is how you get internships, which gets you experience, which gets you hired.

That said, the most important things you will learn are outside of the classroom. You will learn your limits, get to see and speak to people totally different than you, and get to question long held beliefs.

Your teachers are not there to help you pass; often they're there to weed you out. If you want to spend $30,000 and piss it away, they don't care, they got your check, and there are always more kids coming from high school for your slot.

You will learn that its hard to care for yourself, how staying ahead is better than catching up, how much easier it is to spend than to replace what you've spent. All those annoying things adults say because they're true. But you have to experience it to believe.

Be cautious your first year and buckle down, get your GPA up; it will pay off when the classes get harder. You will make mistakes. You may be in an area with 50,000 kids all between 18-21, more than half being women. So many fail because of temptations. Have no fear, once you get through freshman year , the women will still be there, but now you'll have a bit more maturity. Stay sober the first year; learn how to nurse a beer. You will screw up but a clear head will keep you from making mistakes that are permanent.

Good luck! It will be some of the best ( and worse years ) of your life!

[SaintRidley]

Your teachers are not there to help you pass; often they're there to weed you out. If you want to spend $30,000 and piss it away, they don't care, they got your check,

Point of order. Nobody teaching you is getting more than a pittance out of your check. Most of that is funneled to administration.

[Sermil]

So, being 'Murican and a high schooler with some pretty decent scores in high school life and standardized testing, I'm going through the generic college applications process. I'm pretty sure I'll get in somewhere, so I wanted to know from people who know better: what do I expect in the enrollment and moving-to-college process? Any tips? Any ideas as to what I should take and what I should buy in preparation?

If you (like me) tended to be in the top academic bracket during high school (all AP classes, high SAT, lots of As and a few Bs), and are going to reasonably elite college...
Be careful not to assume you can pull the same in college.

Probably the biggest mistake of my college career was in my first semester. I had taken AP Calculus BC and gotten a 5. Normally, if you took AP Calculus BC and passed, you could skip first semester Calculus. But if you got a 5, you had the option of skipping the entire first year of Calculus and going into third-semester math. Being the kind of student who had always skipped ahead, I took that option. And then, on top of that, the third-semester of College Math had a regular and an "honors" version. Just like I did at high school, I of course took the honors version.

BIG mistake. A mistake big enough that it probably changed my entire life. Honors math was intended for people going for Math PhDs, the ones who are going prove theorems about different infinities that I can barely understand, let along follow. I think the class was supposed to be covering differential equations, but we barely even talked about actual work-a-day differential equation solving in favor of... I don't even know, ideas about the fundamental nature of numbers or something. I probably should have just gone into second semester of Calculus, I could have used the review, or at least taken the non-Honors version of the third-semester math class. But I didn't, and I never got a solid grounding in differential equations, and when I got into upper-division Quantum Mechanics (I was a physics major), I was pretty much lost -- QM has a lot of differential equations. In the end, I dropped Physics completely and ended up a Computer Science major -- Computer Science requiring no Calculus at all.

So, Sermil's big lesson? If you were hot stuff in high school -- SO WAS EVERYONE ELSE AT THAT COLLEGE. Everyone who wasn't hot stuff isn't going to the elite universities. Don't assume you can slide by on all talent and no work, like you did in high school. Don't expect to be top of the class any more -- you might think you are smart, but there are people who are nova-bright compared to you. Keep a pretty light workload your first semester until you get used to college. And don't take Honors classes outside your major.

Closing anecdote: On the first day at MIT one year, they gathered all the freshmen on the lawn and and ask "How many of you expect to graduate in the top half of the class here at MIT?" 90% of the students raised their hand.

[M0rdecai[QC]]

Computer Science requiring no Calculus at all.

Machine learning would like to have a word with you. (https://youtu.be/tIeHLnjs5U8)

[OACSNY97]

I don't know about your state, but the community colleges in my area have "rolling admissions," meaning that they'll keep accepting people basically all year rather than having a closed admissions season. It may well be worth your time and effort to look into the community colleges and/or "directional/town name" state college/university to see if they have "rolling admissions." When I was a senior in high school, I was so busy with my classes that I put off applying to college until most of the college application deadlines had passed, so I ended up applying in May/June to the 4 year state college close to my parents for the upcoming school year and lived a home my freshman year.

On that note, if your parents really micromanaged your schedule in high school and you are not good at managing your time/responsibilities, you may seriously want to consider living at home your first year of college. I have seen a lot of people go away to college without knowing how to manage a schedule and really struggle freshman year. By going to a local college/university and living at home you're almost certainly saving at least $10,000-15,000 (that's ~1/2 a new car!). I also think that living at home and commuting can get the best of both words if you treat it like a 8 to 5 job. Get up, go to school, go to class, hang out in the study lounges/library/dinning hall between classes and get homework done, then go home, sleep in your own bed and do laundry for free at home. Your parents will still help provide some structure for the very few waking hours you'll be home but while you're on campus, no one really cares that much if you don't go to class, you should but if you don't the truant officer won't be coming for you so it's a great way to practice managing a schedule.

On money- my general advice is unless you're absolutely certain you're going to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer and a couple of other narrow fields, do NOT go into debt up to or worse yet OVER a down payment on a house. If you must take out loans, assume you WON'T be getting a job that pays much over minimum wage fresh out of college, so don't borrow more than you can pay off living at home and working retail for a year or two.

I have also heard, but have not researched, that there are some very good scholarships out there now for people who are planning on going into the skilled trades, especially the building trades, and that as an apprentice you can get paid for working your way through school AND can expect a much higher starting salary than in many other fields. This may well be worth your effort to look into.

-Good Luck


As good as that sounds, most of my applications have already gone, and most of them are fairly expensive. Parents are paying, since I can't take out loans, so I really wish I had heard this advice in junior year of high school.

.

[Sermil]

You will save upwards of $30,000 if you take two years at community college first, and your classes will be better because the class size is smaller.

Personally, I would not suggest going to a community college unless you need to for financial reasons. I've had family members go to community colleges, and family members go straight to a 4-year university, and I think the quality of instruction is better at 4-years. Yes, the lower-division classes are bigger, often much bigger, at a 4 year. But Universities have grad students to be TAs, and they are often very helpful (not always, but often). Community colleges often have just a single tutor they have hired and the teacher, and the teacher is often overloaded by the more struggling students.

Admittedly, this is based on a very small sample size, so YMMV, but I found the 4 years to be more helpful.

(And I sent both my kids directly to a 4 year university, so I've put my money where my mouth is.)

[Nemirthel]

Your teachers are not there to help you pass; often they're there to weed you out. If you want to spend $30,000 and piss it away, they don't care, they got your check, and there are always more kids coming from high school for your slot.

Just to clarify this: most instructors will try to help you if you go to office hours and ask for help. There are some who won't, but it's usually worthwhile to at least go to office hours if you need help.

What you will probably never encounter is unsolicited help. It doesn't really affect an instructor if you fail, and helping you takes time away from research (assuming you're at a research university). You shouldn't be afraid to ask for help, but you're going to have to ask for it. You also should try to figure as much out as you can before you go to office hours, as you'll otherwise just annoy your instructor and end up figuring out the hardest parts after they helped you with the easy parts. Do the easy parts first so you can get help with the stuff you can't figure out.

Also, don't go to an instructor's office unless it's during their office hours or you have an appointment. There's a good chance they won't be there, and if they are they're probably busy and will tell you to come back during office hours.

[Goodkill]

community college was good to me for computer science. i'm a partly self-taught programmer anyway, but taking classes has helped a lot to push me beyond my ordinary boundaries.

[Scarlet Knight]

Point of order. Nobody teaching you is getting more than a pittance out of your check. Most of that is funneled to administration.

You are correct. I apologize for not being clearer; I should not have used the pronoun "they" twice. What I meant to say was: "If you want to spend $30,000 and piss it away, the professors don't care, the university's got your check".


Just to clarify this: most instructors will try to help you if you go to office hours and ask for help. There are some who won't, but it's usually worthwhile to at least go to office hours if you need help.

What you will probably never encounter is unsolicited help. It doesn't really affect an instructor if you fail, and helping you takes time away from research (assuming you're at a research university). You shouldn't be afraid to ask for help, but you're going to have to ask for it. You also should try to figure as much out as you can before you go to office hours, as you'll otherwise just annoy your instructor and end up figuring out the hardest parts after they helped you with the easy parts. Do the easy parts first so you can get help with the stuff you can't figure out.


I shouldn't speak for all colleges. There may be teachers who truly want all their students to succeed. I can only speak to what happened at my university, which I saw repeated with my younger brothers. At a certain year, it was determined that 2/3 of the students were to be removed ( We've probably all heard the " Look to the right, look to the left, two of you will be gone" speech.) These were specific cut courses, taught by very good researchers who hated teaching or had trouble with English. Perhaps they truly felt culling the herd strengthened the profession. For whatever reason, only token help was there. They had hours, true, but with lines down the hall of students trying to get help; more than they could see. If you were lucky, you might be friends with an upperclassman to help you.

In a humorous twist, my younger brother's class was very smart and it was funny to see the way the professors began to panic when they couldn't get the students to fail. Downward curve anyone?

[Sermil]

Oh, you probably already know this, but I want to make 100% certain someone has told you:

For-profit colleges are a scam. They will ruin your life and give you nothing in return. If a university is advertising on TV, avoid it like the plague.

[WarKitty]

Oh, you probably already know this, but I want to make 100% certain someone has told you:

For-profit colleges are a scam. They will ruin your life and give you nothing in return. If a university is advertising on TV, avoid it like the plague.

The advertising on TV thing isn't entirely true. I can think of at least three local colleges that advertise on TV or radio around here. One's the local community college, one's a 200+ year old religious liberal arts college, and one's the online program run by a local state university. All of these are reputable institutions.

But yes, avoid anything that's a for-profit college. Also any online program that is not associated with a regular, reputable institution.

[Fri]

You mean I won't be able to be a game designer by calling this number!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXul4ENEYOA

[Douglas]

Wow, that ad is terrible. Script, effects, acting, everything. Did they just ask two of their staff to do it rather than hire anyone?

[Sermil]

You mean I won't be able to be a game designer by calling this number!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXul4ENEYOA

Oh, man, back when I was a game programmer, we used to spend SO much time making fun of that ad. It was a running joke for like a year.

[Aliquid]

When you are working on an assignment know your audience. Be that the professor, TA, or whatever... get to know what they want to see in the assignment.

As an example, I knew of two profs who taught different courses in a similar subject. I dug around and found out what their final exams were like. HUGE difference. One was based purely on memorizing facts and trivia.... whole exam was multiple choice. The other was short paragraph type questions asking you to explain "why this happened", or "how that works" (more interested in the concept than the details). Knowing this in advance made a big difference on what I paid attention to in class, and what I highlighted in my notes.

Or if you are dealing with social sciences type courses where you might need to state an opinion and then back it up... find out how opinionated your TA or Prof is on the subject, and how willing they are to give a good mark to someone who has an opposing opinion (well written or not).

[Nemirthel]

There's another thing I have to add. If you aren't happy with the grade you're on track to get, ask for help immediately. Don't wait until finals week to ask your TA if there's anything you can do to improve your grade. Especially for a lab that ended two weeks before finals week.

There won't be anything you can do, but maybe if you'd asked earlier there would have been. It's also important to remember that if you do this and your TA sees that you have missing assignments, they're a lot more likely to wonder why you didn't care until now than to let you turn those in late (especially because the grade has probably already been sent to the professor).

If you have a problem in a class, fix it early instead of just hoping it goes away.

[Scarlet Knight]

...
But yes, avoid anything that's a for-profit college. Also any online program that is not associated with a regular, reputable institution.

Let T$$$P University serve as a cautionary tale.

[GolemsVoice]

On advice I remember from my university days: see if your professor has written a book on the subject you're learning with them. We had a professor who basically taught his own book, so you could buy it (which he recommended) and just learn from there. Also, you might get to know what that particular professor wants to hear when it comes to writing examns.

[RedCloakLives!]

Hi. Lots of good thoughts from others. I'll try to add a few.

1. I think all of the above illustrates the following: In College/Uni, what you get out of it is what you put into it. (Unlike high school, where you are forced to go, they try to make you learn, and you are free to resist or reject it. :smallsmile:) Want the big time social experience? Then direct your efforts there. Want to be a rocket scientist? Different sort of life. Want to be a rocket scientist with the uber social life? Well, if you can figure out how to do it, go for it. It's up to you to do things, to make things happen.

2. Some professions have requirements for what happens in college, and if you have any interest in them, figure out what you need to do. Now, not later; now, if you can, though I know this is unrealistic for most; and I don't know what your situation is. Though it is possible to course correct later.

This is mainly in the professions.

Medical/Veterinary school - typically requires a (very) high college GPA, premed courses
Law school - requirements not as stringent, but it depends on what you want to do
MBA - similar comment as law school
Pharmacy, Optometry - probably similar to med school

Nursing and Engineering - these are specialized degree-requiring professions where you enter the professional work force directly after college, and your college degree is your professional degree, rather than having to go to another professional school. In the view of some, that makes them the most hard core degrees; degrees for highly responsible people.

Med, nursing, eng - typically you start fulfilling requirements in your first semester.

3. Stay away from all the bad criminal stuff. Hazing. Harassment. Also avoid heroin, hellacious overindulging, high times, hetc. None of it goes anyplace good.

4. Your degree vs what you do in life. Sometimes there is a direct line. Sometimes, there isn't, or it is not obvious. There can be a lot of ways to get through life. For example ...

Studied Philosophy -- Steve Martin, Bruce Lee. You can see it in their work. They needed it, it helped them.

Electrical Engineering -- Rowan Atkinson (a.k.a., Mr. Bean, Blackadder), Master's Degree (!)

French -- Corazon Aquino

Med School -- Michael Crichton

Chemistry -- Margaret Thatcher

Dropouts -- Bill Gates, Larry Niven

Math Ph.D. / NFL -- John Urschel

Art/Design -- famous web cartoonist, Rich Burlew, if I recall correctly. It's why OOTS looks so good. Compared to other comics, its Art and Design is second to none. None!

[aspi]

While some answers have hinted at this, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this explicitly: before you start, take a couple of days to research your chances of getting a job that sounds like something you would like to do with the major/minor you plan on taking (you mentioned political science). As some others mentioned, most university degrees (especially outside of STEM fields) are not worth what you think they are worth. Make sure you are on the right track for a job you actually want. Otherwise, you are just going to waste a lot of time and effort to end up in a worse position than you are in now. Don't take that lightly and just go to college because it's what everyone is doing.

To emphasize what RedCloakLives! mentioned: do not expect to be taught what you need to know. Expect help with learning what you need to know. College/University is not supposed to be like school. You are the active party and you have to want to learn. If you expect to be fed information, you will inevitable fail at learning. The first thing you have to learn (which you likely never learned at school) is how to learn.


I shouldn't speak for all colleges. There may be teachers who truly want all their students to succeed. I can only speak to what happened at my university...
Yes, you really, really should not generalize. As someone who is working and teaching in academia, let me assure you that you are being downright offensive by casting all university teachers into this role. While it is true that there are bad professors, most of them are simply jaded by a system that is broken, by overloaded courses, not enough assistants and a continuously decreasing level of prior knowledge in first year students. In my experience, a large part of why professors end up jaded and distant is the number of students with this and similar attitudes that they have to deal with. If everyone treats you like a soulless villain, you're gonna end up being one eventually.

If something is going wrong, definitely do complain - but don't blame professors/lecturers/instructors for everything that is going wrong. They are part of a broken system (just like you are) and usually deserve much less blame than you initially think. The difficulties that most students face are caused by systemic problems that started long before they ever got to college/university.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Closing anecdote: On the first day at MIT one year, they gathered all the freshmen on the lawn and and ask "How many of you expect to graduate in the top half of the class here at MIT?" 90% of the students raised their hand.

As far as the first day be prepared speech goes I prefer the good old "Look to person to your left, look to the person to your right. At the end of this year only one of you will still be here". (For the real math based studies (which I only have second hand stories about), other technical degrees can use the version where one of you isn't here anymore, but it lacks the same punch.)

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Chemistry -- Margaret Thatcher Also: Dolph Lundgren


Dropouts -- Bill Gates

I don't know anything about the rest of your list, so I'll refrain from commenting on those, but the idea that Bill Gates was a dropout is kind of plain false. He never finished his studies, that's true, but that's because he had already started running the sort of company other students aspired to one day work at. He was way ahead of not just the class but given the period this plays out in probably a good bunch of the professors as well. And part of that is because he was a rich kid. I'm not even sure how rich, but the story goes that he had much more experience with the very expensive things computers were than most of his classmates. But it's also because he was creepy smart. One of the assignments Bill Gates and his partner in programming took up when starting out their company would have been a pretty standard order for a custom made computer program, if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't have access to the kind of system it needed to run on. So Bill Gates then wrote an emulator for that system, again without being able to try anything out, and the other guy wrote the program on that. The first time the program actually ran on the intended machine was during the presentation to the company, and it worked. And then of course there is the part of Gates' success which is due to hard work. He typically spent less of his weeks not working than most people spend sleeping. The guy was a machine. So yes, technically didn't finish his degree, no, not a typical dropout.

And I say all this being s person much closer to a typical dropout. I know it's not easy, but if anyone out there is looking for an inspirational figure who got to the top while slacking off and having fun because focusing all the time is hard (it is), don't look at Bill Gates. Maybe try some politicians or something.

[Peelee]

Seconding Bill Gates being a horrible example of a dropout. For the reasons already listed, plus a few more (not the least being that if you can choose to drop out of Harvard, you are not a typical dropout).

[ve4grm]

To emphasize what RedCloakLives! mentioned: do not expect to be taught what you need to know. Expect help with learning what you need to know. College/University is not supposed to be like school. You are the active party and you have to want to learn. If you expect to be fed information, you will inevitable fail at learning. The first thing you have to learn (which you likely never learned at school) is how to learn.

This. This is the best advice in the thread.

I'm an engineer. I did great in school. Straight A's, or close to it, every year. When I got to university, this dropped to B's and C's. And this was 100% because I never learned how to study effectively.

Do not listen to Toro's example. He has some good points (especially in the states, a degree is way overvalued sometimes, get any scholarships you can), but his example is based on 1) committing fraud on applications, 2) posing as a lawyer and making legal threats he couldn't back up, and then 3) getting extremely lucky he wasn't sued, expelled, or arrested. DON'T DO THIS!


Regarding the social aspect - as opposed to high school, everyone at university (especially in your degree) is there for the same reason you are. As such, the barrier between cliques breaks down a lot, and plenty of new social opportunities are available. Also, the nerdy smart kid is now someone people want to be better friends with, as their goals are now more education-based.

Regarding greek life - there are bad frats (hazing, drugs, partying every night so nobody can get any sleep and inevitable fails their courses), and there are good frats (moderate amount of partying, help available for courses, good people to spend time with). Heck, sometimes you'll even find a geek frat (still partying in some amount, but also a board game library, school help, D&D groups, etc)! Be careful what frat you join. A good way to tell what kind of frat one is, is by looking at what they do for charity work. Most frats do some, but the bad frats tend to do the bare minimum as lazily as they can. A good frat is usually socially conscious and helps out in the community.

[2D8HP]

...(not the least being that if you can choose to drop out of Harvard, you are not a typical dropout)..
FWLIW, My wife has a dual English and Philosophy degree, attended and dropped out of Harvard Law School after two years (she hated the east coast), transferred to Boalt Law (U.C.Berkeley) during which time she met me, and dropped out of Law school altogether with less than 6 months till graduation because she realized she really didn't want to do legal work (she had a nice collection of textbooks though), and hasn't had much paid employment since.

Don't waste time majoring in something that doesn't interest you, or that you won't use.

[Peelee]

.
FWLIW, My wife has a dual English and Philosophy degree, attended and dropped out of Harvard Law School after two years (she hated the east coast), transferred to Boalt Law (U.C.Berkeley) during which time she met me, and dropped out of Law school altogether with less than 6 months till graduation because she realized she really didn't want to do legal work (she had a nice collection of textbooks though), and hasn't had much paid employment since.

Don't waste time majoring in something that doesn't interest you, or that you won't use.

On the one hand, I totally agree. On the other, if I went to Harvard and realized I didn't care about the degree, I'd keep going, and just ramp up my socializing. C's get degrees, and there's a lot of value in having friends in high places.

[SaintRidley]

C's get degrees, and there's a lot of value in having friends in high places.

That's an attitude I simply cannot comprehend actually having.

[Goodkill]

That's an attitude I simply cannot comprehend actually having.

it saved my butt. i had a strong b going in my last class (to get my associate's degree) but then i bombed the final. brought my grade down to a c ... my cumulative was a c because i did terrible one semester, for extracurricular reasons. i'd say i'm a B student in computer science - i got an even amount of As, Bs, and Cs except for that one semester where i flunked one class and got Ds in the other ones. but having a bad semester can happen to anyone. for me, it was the start of my schizophrenia, you could say, brought on by a hot milf. not a bad way to start out a mental illness i guess lol.

edit: i also got a D in speech because my teacher didn't like my completely improvised speeches. the class loved them though!

[Peelee]

That's an attitude I simply cannot comprehend actually having.

I agree, if your goal is to build a career with your degree. However, I explicitly said otherwise there.

[Chen]

I agree, if your goal is to build a career with your degree. However, I explicitly said otherwise there.

Realistically even then networking is probably more important than grades. Grades are needed for grad school and thats about it. In terms of interviews any number of extracurriculars and/contacts are going to supercede your grades. Plus thats only for your first job. After that no one cares.

[AMFV]

Realistically even then networking is probably more important than grades. Grades are needed for grad school and thats about it. In terms of interviews any number of extracurriculars and/contacts are going to supercede your grades. Plus thats only for your first job. After that no one cares.

Definitely true, I can remember when my mother was telling me about how she was told by a professional resume writer that she should remove the fact that she had a 4.0 resume in college from her resume because nobody cares.

The main thing is though, that if you can give you get season are going to know how to do your job then he should get better and see if you can get seeds and still learn how to do your job then that's more important. My personal experiences in college have shown me that a lot of times what people learn in college is not connected in any way to what they would do for their actual position. And basically the first year for most companies is teaching people what the hell their actual job is.

[Sermil]

Definitely true, I can remember when my mother was telling me about how she was told by a professional resume writer that she should remove the fact that she had a 4.0 resume in college from her resume because nobody cares.

Counterpoint: There are lots of entry-level computer programming jobs that specifically require a 3.0 or 3.5 to even apply. And, of course, if you want to go on to grad school, GPA is critical.

Once you get past entry-level though, ya, people don't really care what your GPA was, just that you have a degree.

[Douglas]

When I was interviewing for my first post-college job, many companies specifically asked what my GPA was, and it was significantly important to them. On the other hand, there were also many that never mentioned GPA, and I never brought it up.

Once I had a major post-college job to put in my experience list, though, no one cared about GPA any more. The fact that I have a degree in Computer Science from a widely known and respected college mattered some, but what interviewers really asked about was all about my job experience. That, and direct tests of my knowledge and skills, of course.

[AMFV]

Counterpoint: There are lots of entry-level computer programming jobs that specifically require a 3.0 or 3.5 to even apply. And, of course, if you want to go on to grad school, GPA is critical.

Once you get past entry-level though, ya, people don't really care what your GPA was, just that you have a degree.

True, that's why it's absolutely critical to do your research. Like I said there are jobs where classroom aptitude translates better than others I would not be surprised at all to find out that programming was one of those.

[Goodkill]

Counterpoint: There are lots of entry-level computer programming jobs that specifically require a 3.0 or 3.5 to even apply. And, of course, if you want to go on to grad school, GPA is critical.

Once you get past entry-level though, ya, people don't really care what your GPA was, just that you have a degree.

oh ****. i knew i wasn't going to grad school, but anyway i guess i still have two years (finishing my bachelor's at probably Penn State) to bring up my gpa. i was bringing it up pretty well, getting As and Bs, until i bombed that final, brought me down 11 whole percentage points.

[Sermil]

oh ****. i knew i wasn't going to grad school, but anyway i guess i still have two years (finishing my bachelor's at probably Penn State) to bring up my gpa. i was bringing it up pretty well, getting As and Bs, until i bombed that final, brought me down 11 whole percentage points.

If you are really worried about your post-college career, get an internship. Having something you can talk about beyond the same list of classes that every other entry-level grad has is pretty helpful. And, of course, if you get an internship with an expanding company, they may just hire you as soon as you graduate.

[Scarlet Knight]

... Don't take that lightly and just go to college because it's what everyone is doing. True, you go to college because it's the best way you can make sure your family eats.


The first thing you have to learn (which you likely never learned at school) is how to learn. I agree totally.



Yes, you really, really should not generalize. As someone who is working and teaching in academia, let me assure you that you are being downright offensive by casting all university teachers into this role. While it is true that there are bad professors, most of them are simply jaded by a system that is broken, by overloaded courses, not enough assistants and a continuously decreasing level of prior knowledge in first year students. In my experience, a large part of why professors end up jaded and distant is the number of students with this and similar attitudes that they have to deal with. If everyone treats you like a soulless villain, you're gonna end up being one eventually...

Yes, I should not generalize. I am sure most teachers love when their students learn. What I was trying to say was in college, teachers are different with different priorities than previous teachers.

In elementary school, the primary goal for teachers is to teach. Same in high school, unless you go to the rare one where a football coach is hired to make the school a power and the school gives him a class to justify his salary.

College is different, "broken" as you say, where teaching is often a secondary goal. "Publish or perish"? I admire teachers who can teach in a secondary language, but that doesn't make them good for the students. Research is good for the schools bottom line, which should be good for the student, but not while you're taking the course of a professor who really wants to be in the lab.

I just wanted new freshmen to be aware of this.

[Anonymouswizard]

Another thing to note is that the good lecturers aren't always the good teachers.

In my first year (we go straight into our major in effect) I had a module on Digital Logic and Microprocessors, taught by two members of staff. One was a really good lecturer, taught the class from his own book (which I'd recommend to anybody interested in the basics of Digital Logic*), and made me suspect he'd done amateur dramatics at some point because of how much he'd ham it up. It really made you remember the information when he'd act so excited at logic gates outputting a one.

The other was a rubbish lecturer, but if you went to his office during his drop in hours was really good at teaching you what you'd missed. Rubbish at giving the information to a load of students, great at teaching one on one or to a small group.

* Not giving the title because I'm kind of wary about giving out details of the University I attended until earlier this year.

[Mith]

Another thing to note is that the good lecturers aren't always the good teachers.

In my first year (we go straight into our major in effect) I had a module on Digital Logic and Microprocessors, taught by two members of staff. One was a really good lecturer, taught the class from his own book (which I'd recommend to anybody interested in the basics of Digital Logic*), and made me suspect he'd done amateur dramatics at some point because of how much he'd ham it up. It really made you remember the information when he'd act so excited at logic gates outputting a one.

The other was a rubbish lecturer, but if you went to his office during his drop in hours was really good at teaching you what you'd missed. Rubbish at giving the information to a load of students, great at teaching one on one or to a small group.

* Not giving the title because I'm kind of wary about giving out details of the University I attended until earlier this year.

^ This is my experience with all but one maybe two professors. If you didn't learn well from them in lectures, they were usually better in office hours as they could adjust the explanation to fit your question. The one exception was a professor who couldn't give a straight answer. For example he allowed an open book exam with the textbook but wasn't sure if he was going to allow students to bring notes until the morning of the exam we got an email.

Other notes about course work. If you go into a math based course like Calculus, there are sources that can solve equations for you. Only use those to check your final answer, never copy it. It will only screw you up on the exams which are the only things that matter, and it won't prepare you for the courses where you cannot just let the computer do it.

[AMFV]

True, you go to college because it's the best way you can make sure your family eats.


I'm going to cut in here, that is DEFINITIVELY not the truth. A worthless degree is worse than having no degree and may actually really hurt you in looking for work particularly certain kinds of work. I mean if you get a BA in Art Therapy, and I get a Carpenters Journeyman Card, which of us do you think is more likely to make bank money? I can tell you that college loses big in that scenario. And it's even worse if you go to college and find out that you don't want to be there and you drop out without actually making the degree, then you have debt, wasted time, and basically nothing to show for it.

See, like you I bought into the "college is a second high school diploma" line that people have been fed throughout the 90s and 2000s, and it is horse ****. There are plenty of jobs that are unfilled that are much better paying than many or even most college degree requiring jobs (certainly true at the bachelor's level). And most of the jobs that I've seen that are "we'll take any degree" are clerical or management jobs, which it turns out are things that most people are not always good at, and they don't start out high, and management is certainly not going to want somebody that has less real world experience.

So again, as the quoted poster was saying. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Use BLS stats, see if there's actually job growth in a particular field. It's difficult even to predict the STEM fields, since not all of those have that much growth and many of those are VERY competitive.

So Tl;dr: The best way to feed your family is to find something you're good at that people will pay money for. Lots of people will pay money for carpenters, not many people will pay money for Art Historians (although there are a few).

[dps]

Ok, first off, disclaimer--I went to college more than 30 years ago, and some things probably have changed. Keeping that in mind:

Balance your study and your social life. You don't want to flunk out, or graduate but go looking for your first good or a place in a graduate school with bad grades on your record. OTOH, college is also a great place to build your social skills, and to network. Plus, as a old college mate of mine once said, "College is the only place that grown adults are allowed to act like little children". College is the last time in your life until maybe retirement when you'll have plenty of free time; don't pass up the opportunity to have a last bit of relatively unfettered fun. But again, keep up with your coursework. Exactly how you balance the two depends in part on how easily the coursework comes to you. Keep in mind that even if studying came easily to you in high school, college coursework is in general more difficult, and you will probably have more distractions and you won't have your parents there to make sure you study.

Get a small refrigerator for your dorm room, to keep some drinks (and I don't necessarily mean alcoholic beverages) and snacks in your room. Don't plan on doing a lot of cooking in your room--you probably won't have room for much more than a hotplate. Some places, the dorm cafeterias aren't open on the weekends; find out if yours is or not, and if it's not, make sure you budget for weekend meals.

Aside from the refrigerator and some clothes, you need to take laundry supplies with you--a laundry basket, some detergent, and fabric softener. And of course your personal grooming supplies--toothbrush and toothpaste, deodorant, etc. Sure, you can get those things when you get to the town your school's located in, but you'll often pay more for them. (That applies to basic school supplies as well, and for God's sake don't buy anything from the school bookstore if you can get it elsewhere--you'll almost certainly pay a LOT more at the bookstore than anywhere else. You may have no choice but to get your textbooks there, but even then, you can probably buy them used somewhere, and there's no reason to pay extra to get basic supplies like pens, pencils, and paper there.) Also, find out how much storage space you'll have in your dorm room, and let that determine how much clothing to take with you.

If you're just starting college, you're probably 18, so keep in mind that the legal drinking age is 21 in all states. If you want to drink, I'm not telling you not to, but you might want to find out how strictly the age limit is taken at your school and by the local cops.

Speaking of the local cops, try to stay out of legal trouble, and if you have to interact with them, don't smart off to local police officers or campus security.

Finances and family situation permitting, try to take some summer classes each year. At many schools, the way courses are scheduled will make it difficult to actually take all the courses required by your major in 4 years, but going in the summer is generally a lot cheaper than regular semesters, and it can make the difference in not having to go stay in school for a fifth year. I recommend taking relatively easy required courses in the summer. Of course, if you want to delay your graduation for a year or more, you can ignore this advice.

[Scarlet Knight]

I'm going to cut in here, that is DEFINITIVELY not the truth. A worthless degree is worse than having no degree and may actually really hurt you in looking for work particularly certain kinds of work. I mean if you get a BA in Art Therapy, and I get a Carpenters Journeyman Card, which of us do you think is more likely to make bank money? I can tell you that college loses big in that scenario. And it's even worse if you go to college and find out that you don't want to be there and you drop out without actually making the degree, then you have debt, wasted time, and basically nothing to show for it.

See, like you I bought into the "college is a second high school diploma" line that people have been fed throughout the 90s and 2000s, and it is horse ****. There are plenty of jobs that are unfilled that are much better paying than many or even most college degree requiring jobs (certainly true at the bachelor's level). And most of the jobs that I've seen that are "we'll take any degree" are clerical or management jobs, which it turns out are things that most people are not always good at, and they don't start out high, and management is certainly not going to want somebody that has less real world experience.

So again, as the quoted poster was saying. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Use BLS stats, see if there's actually job growth in a particular field. It's difficult even to predict the STEM fields, since not all of those have that much growth and many of those are VERY competitive.

So Tl;dr: The best way to feed your family is to find something you're good at that people will pay money for. Lots of people will pay money for carpenters, not many people will pay money for Art Historians (although there are a few).

Facts are facts. College graduates make more than non-graduates. While there are always exceptions, practically all labor statistics back this up. There are simply not "plenty of jobs that are unfilled that are much better paying than many or even most college degree requiring jobs". If that were true, the labor numbers would be different.

[Knaight]

Facts are facts. College graduates make more than non-graduates. While there are always exceptions, practically all labor statistics back this up. There are simply not "plenty of jobs that are unfilled that are much better paying than many or even most college degree requiring jobs". If that were true, the labor numbers would be different.

It gets murkier when you start controlling for other factors (e.g. who goes to college) and partitioning those categories a bit (by degree with colleges, splitting vocational trainings of various sorts and no training, etc.).

[2D8HP]

...I mean if you get a BA in Art Therapy, and I get a Carpenters Journeyman Card, which of us do you think is more likely to make bank money?..
Chiming in to agree... and disagree.

I, a Journeyman plumber, earn more than my brother (University political science major, who has some sort of web page making certification), and far more than my wife (English and Philosophy major University graduate, who then did 3/4's of law school), but we all earn less in combined annual income than a tenant that rented a house from my wife and I, that tenant was a neuroscience professor at the U. C. Berkeley and he made big bank. Of course just as most kids who play basketball do not play in the NBA, most college students don't become tenured professors.

You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, unfortunately IIRC that's really hard to do at 18 (or even at 28).

As youths I was more academically inclined and successful than my brother, and he was more mechanically inclined and handy. Given our "innate talents" one would predict that I would have gone to college and he would have gone into the trades, but our family couldn't afford for me to continue schooling and my brother suffered sports injuries that made him too frail for the trades.

It would be nice if there was more guidance on how to make a life, but unfortunately it's all pretty by guess.

From what I've witnessed going to college is no guarantee that you'll get to be middle class (my wife shows that), I also know that I've been able to get an above median income without a college degree (or in my case even a high school degree, I tested out early to go to work with a California "proficiency exam" that's supposed to be "equivalent", but except for my Unions apprenticeship program, almost no one accepts it as that).

Judging by our incomes, my path was more lucrative (so far), but, once the hurdle of paying for college was overcome for my brother (partially with my wages), he had an easier time completing college than I had in completing my apprenticeship, as it took a tremendous physical toll, and other apprentices could work at a faster rate on the job. What enabled me to get my Journeyman card was bit of luck and by putting in more time on the classwork that we did after on-the-job work (in building trades apprenticeships you also go to night school). I got better night school grades than most other apprentices, but the main thing that allowed me to become a Journeyman despite not being as good on the job as most other apprentices, is that enough would keep getting arrested for bar fights abd drunk driving. Three times during a five-year apprenticeship, just when I thought I was about to get cut, another apprentice (a different one each time) would not show up for work because they had been jailed.

The OP has no plans (AFAIK) of going into the trades, but this advice is good for either path:

Stay out of bars!

[WarKitty]

Final word: A whole lot of people end up not working in the field they graduated in. Many of those have perfectly happy, successful lives. So try to set yourself up for a good start, sure, but don't buy into the lie that you absolutely have to be in the field you picked for the rest of your life or else.

And whatever you do, never take out private student loans.

[AlexBlade]

Final word: A whole lot of people end up not working in the field they graduated in. Many of those have perfectly happy, successful lives.

And whatever you do, never take out private student loans.

Agree with you but it is the problem of the whole system.

[WarKitty]

Agree with you but it is the problem of the whole system.

Some of it is. But even in the best systems, people don't always spend their whole lives doing what they thought they'd do at 18.

[AMFV]

Facts are facts. College graduates make more than non-graduates. While there are always exceptions, practically all labor statistics back this up. There are simply not "plenty of jobs that are unfilled that are much better paying than many or even most college degree requiring jobs". If that were true, the labor numbers would be different.

There are plenty of jobs that are unfilled. The issue is that those jobs are skilled labor, not unskilled labor. You can't just grab a dude off the street and put him in a crane. But we're so short on Journeyman Operators that people who know even a little bit in PA are coming to their union as Journeymen. In the area I work, there are not enough carpenters for all the work (because of work on building a cracker plant) that we're having to import carpenters from out of state to work on it (which will probably get worse later).

And yes, my job does make more than quite a few degree requiring jobs. It's harder in some ways though, so it's not for everybody. That was aspi's point, do your research, find out if there's actually a job that pays well in your field.

(Although I might be wrong about Art Historians):
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/curators-museum-technicians-and-conservators.htm

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/structural-iron-and-steel-workers.htm

That's two categories with similar pay, and the non-college one has equal prospects and is actually better paying (and VASTLY better paying if you get into a Union).

I'm not saying that trade jobs are the way to go. In fact in Pittsburgh, the Boilermakers are vastly overmanned and their higher ups just got caught with fingers in the pension fund. That's why I'm a Carpenter and not a boilermaker. Cause I did my research on that. You do your research, don't assume that broad truths like "College graduates make more" are going to filter down to your individual profession and you as an individual.


It gets murkier when you start controlling for other factors (e.g. who goes to college) and partitioning those categories a bit (by degree with colleges, splitting vocational trainings of various sorts and no training, etc.).

Quite right. Which is again, why a person considering a job field should do their homework and not just assume that "college degree = job"


.
Chiming in to agree... and disagree.

I, a Journeyman plumber, earn more than my brother (University political science major, who has some sort of web page making certification), and far more than my wife (English and Philosophy major University graduate, who then did 3/4's of law school), but we all earn less in combined annual income than a tenant that rented a house from my wife and I, that tenant was a neuroscience professor at the U. C. Berkeley and he made big bank. Of course just as most kids who play basketball do not play in the NBA, most college students don't become tenured professors.

My point exactly!


.
You have to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, unfortunately IIRC that's really hard to do at 18 (or even at 28).

It is difficult at 18, particularly when many jobs in practice are vastly different from what is advertised.

Edit: And part of doing that research is making sure you can tolerate the work. Like maybe if 2d8HP had known the level of physical involvement he'd have picked a different career path. I mean I've picked a VERY physically challenging career path, but that isn't something I mind. So you have to know well enough what you like and dislike to pick the best options.

[Knaight]

And yes, my job does make more than quite a few degree requiring jobs. It's harder in some ways though, so it's not for everybody. That was aspi's point, do your research, find out if there's actually a job that pays well in your field.

With that said - economies can change quickly, and that research may or may not be particularly stable. The stats on how quickly jobs change can be exaggerated a bit (particularly as superficial title changes and mild rearranging of duties between positions can get counted as an entirely new job), but the state of an industry now isn't necessarily a great indication of where it will be in half a decade.

There's some safe bets (I made a point of studying water treatment engineering a bit, that seems like a safe bet for a field that's both pretty irreplaceable and near impossible to outsource but even then there's risks around what does and doesn't get automated), but not many.

[AMFV]

With that said - economies can change quickly, and that research may or may not be particularly stable. The stats on how quickly jobs change can be exaggerated a bit (particularly as superficial title changes and mild rearranging of duties between positions can get counted as an entirely new job), but the state of an industry now isn't necessarily a great indication of where it will be in half a decade.

There's some safe bets (I made a point of studying water treatment engineering a bit, that seems like a safe bet for a field that's both pretty irreplaceable and near impossible to outsource but even then there's risks around what does and doesn't get automated), but not many.

Definitely true, but some research can tell you if there's any positions in a field, or what exactly the work life for that position involves. I think finding work that you can tolerate is the most crucial bit actually. I mean, job availability is a good thing to look at, but it shouldn't be the only thing.

Edit 2 (Now with actual advice):

One of things you want to pay attention to when you're researching a job is the culture and type of people that do the job. I realize that "cultural fit" is like a bogeyman buzzword, but if you're working with people who are culturally a better fit it's a lot easier. When I went back to college and worked on my geology degree I felt very much like I was an outsider for years, until I finally decided that path wasn't for me. Then when I wound up doing welding and carpentry it was like I'd finally found the place where I really belonged.

Also if you wind up considering doing something that you hadn't originally give it look. Both I and my wife are doing careers which resulted largely from spur of the moment things and then looking to see if they were feasible. Mine from applying to every union that I would have been able to tolerate and hers from joking about learning to give massages after I had my first strongman competition. So if you have a flash of inspiration career wise at least give it a look, it may bear fruit.

[Ronnoc]

Grad student speaking:
Look for opportunities to get research experience asap, it's a tremendous boon for getting a job in your field or continuing in higher education.
If your program offers a tutorial center, start taking advantage of it. Until you get into the latter years of your program you're unlikely to have much in the way of one on one instruction with professors so tutorial centers are your best shot at custom tailored instruction.

[2D8HP]

...Then when I wound up doing welding and carpentry it was like I'd finally found the place where I really belonged..
FWIW, technology changes, skill in making lead-and-oakum pipe joints used to be expected for plumbers, now they're rarely used, but in almost two decades in the trade, I've only seen two years (2002 & 2009) when every willing person who was a skilled pipe welder couldn't get work, most years there's been more work available than people who could do it.

There's trade schools, but there's even four year colleges with welding programs,

The College of San Mateo (https://weldingcareernow.com/schools/college-of-san-mateo)

is one.

[Aliquid]

.
FWIW, technology changes, skill in making lead-and-oakum pipe joints used to be expected for plumbers, now they're rarely used, but in almost two decades in the trade, I've only seen two years (2002 & 2009) when every willing person who was a skilled pipe welder couldn't get work, most years there's been more work available than people who could do it.

There's trade schools, but there's even four year colleges with welding programs,

The College of San Mateo (https://weldingcareernow.com/schools/college-of-san-mateo)

is one.and if you are willing to work your ass off in rough and remote conditions, you can make craploads of money as a skilled trades person.

Remote mining towns, oil rigs, massive fishing vessels that spend 8 months at sea... They are always hiring, and if you are skilled at something like maintaining the machinery, they will pay you ridiculously well.

[2D8HP]

...they will pay you ridiculously well..
They will pay you more than most Americans are paid, but not "ridiculously" (sadly).

[Douglas]

.
They will pay you more than most Americans are paid, but not "ridiculously" (sadly).
I think we need some numbers here, what pay scale qualifies as "ridiculously" is subjective. What's the minimum that you would describe that way, and about how much do these types of jobs pay?

[2D8HP]

I think we need some numbers here, what pay scale qualifies as "ridiculously" is subjective. What's the minimum that you would describe that way, and about how much do these types of jobs pay?.
The minimum that I would describe as "ridiculously paid"?

Any job that involves little risk of causing injury or illness, and little responsibility, and pays enough that one may buy two houses in good condition where people actually want to live, so $250,000 a year in San Francisco?

As to what some jobs pay?

I work for the City and County of San Francisco, and these are some links that show salaries for these City Jobs:


Pipe Welder (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/sup/bulpreview.asp?R1=CBT&R2=7360&R3=901149)



Plumber (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=TEX&R2=7347&R3=900661#)



Physician Specialist (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/specs/classspecdisplay.asp?ClassNumber=2230&R1=undefined&R3=undefined)


None of those three jobs pay enough to now buy a two bedroom, one bathroom house inside City Limits, or within 50 miles of the City, that isn't a toxic wreck in a high crime area.

As far as I know, someone used to be able to buy a two bedroom 1,000 square foot home for those salaries, if they're willing to drive more than a hundred miles to work, and endure a five hour commute, but I haven't known anyone who's done that in the last five years, so I don't know if that's still true.

My boss did buy a house up in Sonoma County, and he starts driving at 3:30AM, which cuts his drive time to 60 minutes, and he then sleeps in his office till just before the 7AM start time.

I live closer (a 45 to 120 minute commute), but me and my wife bought when houses were cheaper (wages were a little less then, but not that much less).

I absolutely could not even buy the worst teardown condition house in our area today, so I don't consider myself paid "ridiculously".

[Vinyadan]

That's it, I'm moving to America :biggrin:

[Douglas]

.
The minimum that I would describe as "ridiculously paid"?

Any job that involves little risk of causing injury or illness, and little responsibility, and pays enough that one may buy two houses in good condition where people actually want to live, so $250,000 a year in San Francisco?
Ah, right, San Francisco. I think that's the #1 highest price area in the entire country, or possibly #2 behind New York City. It's been a while since I checked that list. Elsewhere in the country, there are good places to live where housing prices are something like 1/5th as much. I have personal experience with that, as I moved from such an area to Mountain View for a job a few years ago - and my former home was in a highly developed suburban area, not a remote backwater.

For the kinds of jobs Aliquid was talking about, where you call home isn't particularly relevant to the job because you'll be far away from it for extended periods of time - "massive fishing vessels that spend 8 months at sea" for example. The question is how much do those jobs, which aren't tied to a high priced city area, pay? And given that pay and the freedom to pick from the whole country for your home's location, how does that work out?

[2D8HP]

..For the kinds of jobs Aliquid was talking about, where you call home isn't particularly relevant to the job because you'll be far away from it for extended periods of time - .
The only job like that which I'm familiar with, was back in 2009 my union got (false) announcements that Americans would be hired to do Pipefitting work up in Alberta, Canada on "Tar Sands" oil production.

I knew some in my local who paid up to get paperwork completed, to apply.

You would have had to live in a "man camp" away from your family, or indeed any civilization for IIRC $70,000 per year.

Hardly "ridiculous pay", and no one I knew who was desperate enough to try to get those jobs got any anyway, as there were already enough Canadians to fill them.

[Aliquid]

.
The only job like that which I'm familiar with, was back in 2009 my union got (false) announcements that Americans would be hired to do Pipefitting work up in Alberta, Canada on "Tar Sands" oil production.

I knew some in my local who paid up to get paperwork completed, to apply.

You would have had to live in a "man camp" away from your family, or indeed any civilization for IIRC $70,000 per year.

Hardly "ridiculous pay", and no one I knew who was desperate enough to try to get those jobs got any anyway, as there were already enough Canadians to fill them.Funny, I know of people that went to work in the "Tar Sands" (Fort McMurray), and came home with wads of cash. I don't know specifically what the salaries were, but I believe it had a base salary of over 90K, and they got a lot of overtime shifts, so they brought home much more than that. Also, the company they worked for covered your lodging and meals etc at the "man camp" on top of that... so your cost of living is right near zero if you avoid partying etc. They did say it was miserable, but worth it if you were young and willing to sacrifice a couple of years for cash.

[AMFV]

If 100k a year won't get you a one bedroom apartment you are living in the wrong place. Flat out.

Edit: also those 70k a year jobs you're looking at for living in a man camp, they work like 119 hour weeks so they make probably double at least what you would expect based on their base pay

Edit 2: Also you realize that 250k a year is the threshold for being in the top two percent of income and that's household income not individual income. So I'd say that San Francisco is just a really really bad metric for what is actually good money.

[2D8HP]

They did say it was miserable, but worth it if you were young and willing to sacrifice a couple of years for cash..
That is not being paid "ridiculously", that is being compensated for your sacrifice.

I've known too many, desperate to keep a job or buy a house who worked a lot of overtime, and for most of them their reward was divorce, missing seeing their children grow up, losing half of their pension, and being forced out of their homes.

Years of your life are precious, as is seeing your children, and having a marriage.

What good are "wads of cash" in a wilderness away from your loved ones?

Paid I don't question, even paid "a lot" I'll accept, but that the jobs you cite as "ridiculously paid"?

I very much question the "ridiculously" part.

Frankly I can't think of anyone who does heavy lifting for a job, or risks crippling on the job injuries or death as overpaid.

I once saw a complaint about how high garbage collectors are paid for their "unskilled" labor.

Every hour a garbage collector is on the job is one that they're more likely to be killed than are Police and Fire Fighters during their work.

Loggers, Fishermen, farm laborers are even more likely to die on the job.

How much is risking your life worth?

A guy who was an apprentice at my local, the same time I was, got crippled on the job and will never walk again.

I clearly remember the bloodstains all over when a pile driver at the jobsite I was at lost both his arms.

How much pay is it worth to risk that?

My former tenant, the University Professor on the other hand?

He was paid ridiculously, except possibly for the fact that so few college students ever get to be tenured professors, so there's that whole "brass ring" thing.

Sort of like actors.

Hollywood superstars make bank, but most community theater actors?

They're paid nothing really.




If 100k a year won't get you a one bedroom apartment you are living in the wrong place. Flat out..
100K a year to rent a one bedroom apartment (if your not too picky), I was saying it's not enough to buy a not falling apart two bedroom house without bullet holes close to where someone is likely to be paid a 100K (I make slightly over that).


also those 70k a year jobs you're looking at for living in a man camp, they work like 119 hour weeks so they make probably double at least what you would expect based on their base pay.
True, but I don't think that's being "ridiculously paid" for that work.


Also you realize that 250k a year is the threshold for being in the top two percent of income and that's household income not individual income. So I'd say that San Francisco is just a really really bad metric for what is actually good money..
I didn't say good money, I said "ridiculously paid", "in San Francisco", and I listed conditions.


.
The minimum that I would describe as "ridiculously paid"?

Any job that involves little risk of causing injury or illness, and little responsibility, and pays enough that one may buy two houses in good condition where people actually want to live, so $250,000 a year in San Francisco?.
And even at that level of pay, I've known a few that I think it's reasonable for them to be paid that much.

Off the top of my head, I've had to do some work in the autopsy room at General Hospital, and The Hall of Justice, and if someone is working there 80 hours a week, while they're bodies out, I do think that's reasonable pay.

Also, when you AMFV served overseas, from some of the hints you've given, yeah you should've been paid that much.

Or al least enough to buy a decent house, that's not in Detroit.

[danzibr]

Oh man. I was in college for 11 years. Don’t really want to think of it :P

[Peelee]

.
The minimum that I would describe as "ridiculously paid"?

Any job that involves little risk of causing injury or illness, and little responsibility, and pays enough that one may buy two houses in good condition where people actually want to live, so $250,000 a year in San Francisco?

As to what some jobs pay?

I work for the City and County of San Francisco, and these are some links that show salaries for these City Jobs:


Pipe Welder (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/sup/bulpreview.asp?R1=CBT&R2=7360&R3=901149)



Plumber (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=TEX&R2=7347&R3=900661#)



Physician Specialist (https://www.jobaps.com/SF/specs/classspecdisplay.asp?ClassNumber=2230&R1=undefined&R3=undefined)


None of those three jobs pay enough to now buy a two bedroom, one bathroom house inside City Limits, or within 50 miles of the City, that isn't a toxic wreck in a high crime area.

As far as I know, someone used to be able to buy a two bedroom 1,000 square foot home for those salaries, if they're willing to drive more than a hundred miles to work, and endure a five hour commute, but I haven't known anyone who's done that in the last five years, so I don't know if that's still true.

My boss did buy a house up in Sonoma County, and he starts driving at 3:30AM, which cuts his drive time to 60 minutes, and he then sleeps in his office till just before the 7AM start time.

I live closer (a 45 to 120 minute commute), but me and my wife bought when houses were cheaper (wages were a little less then, but not that much less).

I absolutely could not even buy the worst teardown condition house in our area today, so I don't consider myself paid "ridiculously".

.......

You should come to Alabama. There's some houses for sale near me, we could be neighbors and hang out. I'm pretty sure you could but a house around here outright if you have anything saved. Like, I got a three bedroom, two bath, two garage house, and that's not even counting the free spare house it came with. Nice neighborhood, too.

Also, we got some great sweet tea.

[Aliquid]

.
That is not being paid "ridiculously", that is being compensated for your sacrifice.

I've known too many, desperate to keep a job or buy a house who worked a lot of overtime, and for most of them their reward was divorce, missing seeing their children grow up, losing half of their pension, and being forced out of their homes.

Years of your life are precious, as is seeing your children, and having a marriage.

What good are "wads of cash" in a wilderness away from your loved ones?I don't disagree. This thread is about going to college etc. so it is generally geared towards young people just starting out. If you are young and unattached and not tied down, it is a good way to get work experience and money. You come back with enough cash for a down-payment and enough work experience to get a decent job.

If you go right out of high-school and go for the "unskilled" jobs at the Tar Sands or on an oil rig where they train you on site, you can still pull off $60K per year, $90K a year if you put in overtime... so consider this:

High school graduate A - Goes the typical 4 year Bachelor's degree. Has to work long hours studying, plus a part time retail job to help make ends meet gets bunt out. After 4 years, will have an average of $30,000 in student loan debt, no job and no work experience (yet)

High school graduate B - Goes and works 4 years in the Tar Sands. Works long hours of physical labor, and gets burnt out. After 4 years (if he/she doesn't blow their salary on booze and partying), could walk away with $100,000 in savings.

Now... 20 years later, the college graduate will be earning a better salary than the trades-person. But if you invest strategically, the "head start" for "student A" might be worth it.



Paid I don't question, even paid "a lot" I'll accept, but that the jobs you cite as "ridiculously paid"?

I very much question the "ridiculously" part.Ok, I take that back then. I guess I was using hyperbole.


Frankly I can't think of anyone who does heavy lifting for a job, or risks crippling on the job injuries or death as overpaid.

I once saw a complaint about how high garbage collectors are paid for their "unskilled" labor.

Every hour a garbage collector is on the job is one that they're more likely to be killed than are Police and Fire Fighters during their work.I have heard that complaint too, and I agree with your stance.


My former tenant, the University Professor on the other hand?

He was paid ridiculously, except possibly for the fact that so few college students ever get to be tenured professors, so there's that whole "brass ring" thing.

Sort of like actors.

Hollywood superstars make bank, but most community theater actors?

They're paid nothing really. What people get paid in our society isn't even vaguely tied to the value they bring to society, the risks they take, or the effort they put in... but that's a whole different topic, and a topic that can't be discussed without violating forum rules.

[2D8HP]

.......

You should ..
Thanks @Peelee, so to not further derail this thread,

I responded in the "Random Banter" thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22687988#post22687988)



I don't disagree. This thread is about going to college etc. so it is generally geared towards young people just starting out.... .
:redface:

That's very true, and it's good of you to remind me of that!


Ok, I take that back then. I guess I was using hyperbole..
Thanks, I'm more used to CAPITAL LETTERS and exclamation points!!! when hyperbole is used, but I still should have recognized it as such and I apologize for my prickliness.


I have heard that complaint too, and I agree with your stance.

What people get paid in our society isn't even vaguely tied to the value they bring to society, the risks they take, or the effort they put in... but that's a whole different topic, and a topic that can't be discussed without violating forum rules..
Another good point, that is also kind of you to remind me of.

Thank you.

:smile:

[Lady Tialait]

I really wish I would have researched what jobs I was really into before getting my BA in Culinary Arts and Nutritional Science. I now run a game store that I own, the start up for it was cheaper then my student debt that has never earned me a single dollar. My high school DnD group ended up being all the contacts I ever needed to pursue my career. My father is still paying off his doctorate in computer science from the 80's while working at Lowes as a stocker making a little more then min. wage. My husband works is a high school drop out, and he makes more then my father does and with tons less debt.

The moral of the story really is, assess your interests and find out exactly what education is required, don't go for any more then what is required. Get job experience as soon as you can in that field, and you will be fine.

[danzibr]

I really wish I would have researched what jobs I was really into before getting my BA in Culinary Arts and Nutritional Science. I now run a game store that I own, the start up for it was cheaper then my student debt that has never earned me a single dollar. My high school DnD group ended up being all the contacts I ever needed to pursue my career. My father is still paying off his doctorate in computer science from the 80's while working at Lowes as a stocker making a little more then min. wage. My husband works is a high school drop out, and he makes more then my father does and with tons less debt.

The moral of the story really is, assess your interests and find out exactly what education is required, don't go for any more then what is required. Get job experience as soon as you can in that field, and you will be fine.
Well said!

I have a mountain of debt from getting my PhD in Mathematics. I'm about to join the Air Force, doing not Mathematics.

[Vinyadan]

Would the Air Force have paid for your PhD, btw?

[Algeh]

One more piece of college advice: plan your schedule each term as strategically as you can and try to build a schedule that plays to your strengths. You will almost certainly not get into every single class you want, particularly your first few terms, so you can't optimize as much as you may want to, but there are still things you can do.

This is something most high school students have no experience doing because they're not used to choices, but it can make a big difference in their success.

In my case, I get overwhelmed by writing papers, or even writing reflective journals, if I have to do too much of it at once. I'm a fairly good writer (of course, saying that means there will be lots of spelling and grammar errors in this post), but I have trouble with both picking appropriate paper topics (I tend to pick something that the class topic makes me wonder about, which generally puts me into topics which are hard to research without more background in the field) and with managing my time to get the papers done. I also get perfectionistic and revise too much when journaling for a class even if I'm not being graded on voice and mechanics. I eventually realized that this meant I needed to avoid taking any class I did not need for graduation if it was going to involve a bunch of writing, so I could save my limited writing ability each term for the classes I most needed.

I tried to balance my schedule each term, when possible, as follows: no more than one "paper-writing" class, one or two "homework, midterm, and final" classes, one or two performance-based classes, one or two project-based classes. My major was Communication, so I had to research which classes would be paper-based and which would rely more on, say, a final presentation to the class or a series of projects. (I would much rather give a speech to a roomful of people and then conduct a Q&A rather than write a paper, which I realize is not universally true.)

I generally ended up taking a paper-writing-required class in Communication, a homework-and-tests class or two in Computer Science and/or Mathematics, at least one Music Performance class (always at least one choir, sometimes also other things), and some sort of test and/or project based class in Communication. (I ended up taking most of my electives in computer science or math just because they seemed to use a different part of my brain than my major so if I was burned out on one of my classes I could still work on another. I'm told that most people don't find taking upper-division computer science classes as electives a good way to lower their workload, but I really hated writing papers and I didn't have to write any papers when I took things like algorithms or differential equations, just keep up with the problems sets and pass tests.)

I am also not a morning person. At all. I struggle to stay aware in any class before about 10am unless it involves moving around a lot. (This is still true now over a decade later, and it really has nothing to do with "partying", which I pretty much didn't do at all in college, and has everything to do with my own sleep/wake cycle. I just have trouble falling asleep until pretty late at night and will fall into an up 'til 3am/sleep 'til noon rhythm whenever not prevented from doing so by needing to be somewhere.) I couldn't always arrange my schedule to fit my preferred hours, but I definitely did not take things that started early in the morning unless I had to, and I let that influence which classes I took for things with lots of different options such as classes I took to meet some of the Gen Ed requirements.

I'm not suggesting that you use the same schedule I did, but think about your own strengths and weaknesses when choosing your schedule. Try to spread your hardest classes (whichever those will be for you) out so you aren't taking all of them during the same term, and don't load up on "easy" classes right off the bat since that'll mean a term of all hard classes later. (This is a particular problem for students going into STEM who "got all of their Gen Eds out of the way" in a dual credit high school/college situation and roll into college with junior standing but little toward their major. It's really best to nibble away at your major requirements each term if you're in STEM.)

[danzibr]

Would the Air Force have paid for your PhD, btw?
Not the whole thing.

[Sermil]

So, I think the TL;DR of this thread is: "College" is not just a single experience. Someone attending an elite university in hopes of getting PhD and enter academia is going to have a very different experience from someone attending a social college looking to build connections, which is very different from someone preparing to enter a well-paid college-required field like doctor, lawyer, or engineer, which is very different from using college as a gateway to a professional athletic career, which is very different from using college as a chance to learn and explore with no particular post-graduation plans.

Good luck, TheFederalist!

[Marcivo]

It’s late, so I haven’t really bothered to read all of the posts before me, but as someone who went through undergrad, master’s, and (currently) PhD in physics at a cutthroat university, I happen have a lot of familiarity with burnout. Research it. Do whatever you can to avoid it. I’ve known many bright students whose careers were cut short because they couldn’t strike a balance between life and work. Hubris and not knowing your personal limitations can be just as harmful as procrastination. At least procrastination doesn’t necessarily end relationships or harm your mental health, so the results can be arguably worse. Burnout can stay with you long after being ejected from school.

Wherever you end up, know what mental health resources the university has to offer its students. Add the number to your address book. Keep it on speed dial. Gather information and never hesitate to seek help if you feel overwhelmed.

[ve4grm]

It’s late, so I haven’t really bothered to read all of the posts before me, but as someone who went through undergrad, master’s, and (currently) PhD in physics at a cutthroat university, I happen have a lot of familiarity with burnout. Research it. Do whatever you can to avoid it. I’ve known many bright students whose careers were cut short because they couldn’t strike a balance between life and work. Hubris and not knowing your personal limitations can be just as harmful as procrastination. At least procrastination doesn’t necessarily end relationships or harm your mental health, so the results can be arguably worse. Burnout can stay with you long after being ejected from school.

Wherever you end up, know what mental health resources the university has to offer its students. Add the number to your address book. Keep it on speed dial. Gather information and never hesitate to seek help if you feel overwhelmed.

Good point!

Never be ashamed to want/need assistance. Whether that's study groups and/or tutors, or mental health counseling, everybody needs help sometimes. It's always better to get the assistance you need than to refuse it out of pride.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

One unexpected benefit I found about college life (on which your mileage will vary hugely, but this is how it was for me in my location with my program): you're almost automatically seen as a better person for being a student.

Not for having a degree mind you, a jobless person with a degree is still just a lazy jobless person and you shouldn't hire them or get too close if you can avoid it. But a student, even if they spend a few years being that jobless person living off the few lucky breaks of employment that came their way, that's a motivated trustworthy fellow. Possibly even better than one of those mundane people with a steady job. If you're going for a degree anyway but you have some side ambitions in which you could really use some experience or you could simply use the money a (side) job provides: apply for stuff while you're still a student. Or lie you still are one, either of those.

Being a student is a lot more work than being in high school, but there's also way less annoyances you can't avoid at all, and most of the people you work with are somewhat emotionally developed, so it's easily better all in all, aside from the debt issue which I luckily had less problems with where I live.

[Scarlet Knight]

I just came across an article from last Sunday's New York Times (“Higher Ed's Low Moment" by Frank Bruni) where I found this relevant statement: "Or this unsettling, dangerous paradox: At a time when a college degree is one of the surest harbingers of higher earnings and better economic security, college itself is regarded with skepticism by many Americans and outright contempt by no small number of them."

The author implies in the article that colleges have to do a better job of explaining why they are so valuable. I sympathize because I believe they felt as I did; the benefit was so obvious that it needed no explanation.

[Chen]

For jobs that require technical knowledge clearly college is used to obtain said knowledge. For jobs that don't require specialized degrees at all, college is merely an extra factor to distinguish you from everyone else applying for the job. That's why having the degree even if it's completely unrelated to the job can be valuable. The supply of workers for those types of jobs is high and thus there needs to be a quick and easy way to weed people out. College degree is the first one that's used. Presumably after that the type of degree can be used if there is still a glut of applicants.

[Marcivo]

Good point!

Never be ashamed to want/need assistance. Whether that's study groups and/or tutors, or mental health counseling, everybody needs help sometimes. It's always better to get the assistance you need than to refuse it out of pride.

Exactly. As someone who's made ample use of these resources, I can't stress it enough. Pride isn't even in the equation. In the absolute worst-case scenario where you somehow embarrass yourself in front of a professional licensed psychologist, no one else is ever going to find out. Besides, if you're like I was in undergrad, you'll check your student fees every semester and have a mild heart attack. Since you're paying for these services whether you want to or not, you might as well make use of them.

[tlhopbow]

You should always see if there are PDF downloads for your books or if you can rent them from Google or chegg. The university book store is a rip off

[Peelee]

You should always see if there are PDF downloads for your books or if you can rent them from Google or chegg. The university book store is a rip off

Amazon does rentals for dirt cheap.

[Xyril]

I'm going to cut in here, that is DEFINITIVELY not the truth. A worthless degree is worse than having no degree and may actually really hurt you in looking for work particularly certain kinds of work. I mean if you get a BA in Art Therapy, and I get a Carpenters Journeyman Card, which of us do you think is more likely to make bank money?

Your evidence doesn't really support your assertion. Even if we give you the answer you expect for your rhetorical question (which, intended or not, comes off as a tad bit patronizing), it doesn't prove that a "worthless degree is worse than having no degree." All it would prove is that the degree is worth less financially than getting qualified in a skilled trade, which frankly is--to use your words--a somewhat worthless argument to make. Your argument is only true in the sense that getting any degree--or making any choice--theoretically carries the opportunity cost of a possibly better choice. By your logic, a CS degree from a school like Carnegie Melon or MIT is worse than having no degree at all because you could have just dropped out and founded Facebook instead.

The points that I think you're trying to make are good ones--skilled trade jobs are vital and undervalued culturally, which means that they're even more financially rewarding as too few young people move into those fields, and too many folks pick degree programs apparently based on "sexiness" of the field without actually considering how they'll be making money after they graduate.

My experience on the hiring side is admittedly limited both in scope and in the fact that it was in an industry that actually cared about what you learned in college, and with an employer that could be a bit picky about what schools it hired from, but I can't really say I would consider any degree worse than worthless. At the very least, a degree shows the ability to make a commitment, complete challenging tasks, and follow through, and to that extent there are quite a few schools, and quite a few degree programs within certain schools, that I would consider close to worthless, especially on that middle count, but even I'm not arrogant or judgmental enough to say, "You got a degree from this diploma mill? Well, you're probably an idiot and I'm going to hold this choice against you." If you really want a degree in philosophy or art therapy or whatever worthless diploma du jour the catty AMFVs are mocking today, you think it will enrich you in some non-financial way, and you have a reasonable and plausible plan for paying for that degree and supporting yourself after you get it, it's not my place to judge you. Just don't go in thinking that the degree with have an economic value that it doesn't, and don't be blind to the fact that the price of your personal enrichment comes not just in the form of tuition, but the opportunity cost of not being able to spend that time working towards long-term financial stability.

[Xyril]

You should always see if there are PDF downloads for your books or if you can rent them from Google or chegg. The university book store is a rip off

I don't know how I feel about the first option. Admittedly, I was a shameless pirate during my broke college days, and I wholeheartedly agree that there's something seriously broken with the business structure of textbooks, journals, and academic publishing in general, but having seen the effort that goes into actually putting academic texts together, I do feel bad ripping off the authors. And unlike most entertainment media, I think you can make a pretty strong argument that a large percentage of textbook piracy represents lost sales--I can't imagine that there are many people who would want to read an engineering textbook on a whim, but then abandon the pursuit entirely when he realizes he has to pay for it. Plus, I really dislike working with pirate pdfs since they tend to be page by page scans, and aren't well-formatted for digital reading.

For an essentially free alternative, go to your university library. Any decent school will have most, if not all, course texts on reserve--made available to be checked out on the order of hours. Just as an example, my public law school library had about a dozen copies of each textbook used in the 100 person first year courses on reserve. The policy was to allow a 4 hour loan, renewable in person if and only if other copies were available and nobody was asking for them. If your four hours end after closing, you could take the book home and the timer didn't start again until the library reopened. (Late fines were pretty steep though.) Anything supplanted by a newer edition gets put into general circulation, meaning that as a last resort, you could have a slightly outdated book, for free, for the entire semester. In STEM fields or books with homework problems, you should be careful about major changes from the old editions, but often the update is mainly cosmetic.

If you're going to a reasonably well-funded university, they might even have a decent number of copies of textbooks for more long term use--they might be in special reserves of some sort, so be sure to ask the librarians. My ex was PhD student at the same public university, and almost never bought textbooks. The university library had only a few copies on hand for general circulation, but it was part of an interlibrary loan network. Most topics in her field had at least two or three widely used texts, and any given semester, at least a few schools in the network were teaching from a different book, meaning that someone willing to go through the slight hassle of making the interlibrary loan request had a good chance of getting a free book, renewable as many times as needed.

I have little personal experience with this, but an increasing number of universities have departments or spinoff organizations specifically to help who need it. Usually focused on people from poorer backgrounds and students who are the first in their family to attend college, they usually offer guidance and advice that many of us take for granted--I didn't think much about it at the time, but in retrospect, I was incredibly blessed to have teachers, parents, and a guidance counselor who not only expected me to go to college, but were also happy to share their own experiences about what it's actually like. They also give more tangible support by telling you where to borrow books for free, or having their own library on hand specifically for these students.

If you exhaust these options, or you just want a cheaper way to own your own book, you can do a bit of research and find a way to buy used textbooks for better prices than the bookstore or Amazon. Selling back to these companies will get you substantially less than half of what you paid, even in near mint condition, and barring a lot of luck, you'll still be paying at least 70% or so buying those same used books, so if you offer half or a bit less than half the cover price, you'll usually find someone happy to sell. Student organizations that are either academically related or simply huge are often a good way to go. In fact, I remember during the activities fair during the first week of classes, the society of physics students were actually selling a bunch of used copies of the first year physics textbooks right at their table. If you plan your courses ahead of time and know what you'll need, you'll usually get good prices if you offer to buy used books at the end of a semester, since people will be happy not to have to deal with storage or moving. Some of the bigger student organizations had hundreds of marginally involved members on their list-serve (probably using Facebook groups today), and if you feel comfortable posting around exam time offering to take a book off someone's hands, you'll probably get a few offers. At risk of reinforcing stereotypes, all of the Asian cultural groups pretty much became a giant bazaar for premed textbooks at the beginning and end of each semester, and during the latter it was generally a buyer's market.

This probably falls under the general header of "Amazon," but it's worth noting specifically that international editions are sometimes a much cheaper alternative. One caveat is that--like with using older editions--you should be very careful about researching the differences and making sure they don't bite you in the butt later. I did this once, and the main difference is that the international version had a few problems changed and most problems numbered differently, so I used it for studying and took scans from a friend's book or a reserve copy for homework assignments.

[Knaight]

I don't know how I feel about the first option. Admittedly, I was a shameless pirate during my broke college days, and I wholeheartedly agree that there's something seriously broken with the business structure of textbooks, journals, and academic publishing in general, but having seen the effort that goes into actually putting academic texts together, I do feel bad ripping off the authors.

I know a few people who've written textbooks - the authors make basically no money. You could literally mail them a five dollar bill with a note that says "I got a used copy of your book" (no need to admit to piracy), and from the perspective of their bottom line you've effectively bought one if not several books from them.