Chains As Weapons In D&D 3.5?

[Bartmanhomer]

Are there chains in D&D 3.5? If so, can you chains as weapons?

[Guinea_Pig]

Are there chains in D&D 3.5? If so, can you chains as weapons?

There are spiked chains in the PHB - those are certainly the most common chains available. They're quite helpful. You can strike either 5 or 10 feet away with them, make trip attacks, drop the chain to avoid being tripped, use them with Weapon Finesse and get a +2 to disarm with them. The only thing is they qualify as an exotic weapon.

If you're looking for chains to use as weapons, spiked chains are probably the way to go. As for other chains that are out there, I'm not sure. They're probably out there somewhere though - 3.5 is huge.

[Bartmanhomer]

There are spiked chains in the PHB - those are certainly the most common chains available. You can strike 10 feet away with them, make trip attacks, use them with Weapon Finesse and get a +2 to disarm with them. The only thing is they qualify as an exotic weapon.

As for other chains, I'm not sure. They're probably out there though - 3.5 is huge.Ok that good. But what about an alternative weapon for a chain, such as a silver whip for example? Can that weapon be treated as a chain?

[Thurbane]

As well as the Spiked Chain, there's also the Chain (OA p.71), Dragonchain (RHoD p.126) and Drow Scorpion Chain (SX p. 137). There's several other chain-like weapons as well.

[Telonius]

A Whip is its own individual weapon, distinct from a chain (spiked or otherwise), and has its own stats for damage.

If you're trying to use a random chain you've found as a weapon, I'd probably rule that it's an improvised Whip, Flail, or Heavy Flail (depending on how thick the chain is, or how you're trying to use it).

[Necroticplague]

Ok that good. But what about an alternative weapon for a chain, such as a silver whip for example? Can that weapon be treated as a chain?

Define 'be treated as a chain'. What exactly do you mean by that?

You could also use a length of chain as an improvised weapon using CWaR's rules at the back. you end up with a weapon that's actually fairly similar to the spiked chain's stats, except with an attack penalty and a possibility for more bludgeoning damage (in exchange for more weight).

[Bartmanhomer]

Define 'be treated as a chain'. What exactly do you mean by that?

You could also use a length of chain as an improvised weapon using CWaR's rules at the back. you end up with a weapon that's actually fairly similar to the spiked chain's stats, except with an attack penalty and a possibility for more bludgeoning damage (in exchange for more weight).
What I mean is that I want a regular ordinary chain that is used as a weapon and I thought if there's an alternative weapon for it. Well you see I make a character sheet a while back which based of a Boss Monster Card Game. My character that I made is inspired by that card game. My character used two chains for each hand as a weapon. Oh by the way and his name is Raymond Two-Chains, he's a Level 1 Lawful Good Male Human Rogue and the character sheet isn't complete yet.

[Mordaedil]

Nor is the character, apparently. Why is his family name two-chains?

[Fizban]

Oriental Adventures is the only first party 3.x book that I know of with "chain" as a weapon: it's a chain with weighted ends and functions exactly as the Spiked Chain in the PHB except it deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage instead of 2d4 piercing (it also gains the same double weapon vs reach buff OA gave the spiked chain, but that's not the main point here).

Since this is an attempt to model an extremely specific existing character, it doesn't matter what the weapon is called: you need to figure out how the character fights with a "chain," and then figure out what weapon that should be. Because in DnD 3.5, "chains" are two handed reach weapons that you can't dual-wield, and this character apparently dual wields chains. You're probably going to need to homebrew something, because there are no light category chain weapons- the best you can do is one-handed flails or scourges, which will give you massive TWF penalties.

[Bartmanhomer]

Nor is the character, apparently. Why is his family name two-chains?

I'm not sure why. Just remember I didn't made up that character. The card company (Brotherwise Games) made up that character.

[weckar]

Chain Devils (Kyton) use chains as weapons. From there we get 2d4 damage with a standard (x2) crit rate (the creature has improved critical for it).

[Bartmanhomer]

Oriental Adventures is the only first party 3.x book that I know of with "chain" as a weapon: it's a chain with weighted ends and functions exactly as the Spiked Chain in the PHB except it deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage instead of 2d4 piercing (it also gains the same double weapon vs reach buff OA gave the spiked chain, but that's not the main point here).

Since this is an attempt to model an extremely specific existing character, it doesn't matter what the weapon is called: you need to figure out how the character fights with a "chain," and then figure out what weapon that should be. Because in DnD 3.5, "chains" are two handed reach weapons that you can't dual-wield, and this character apparently dual wields chains. You're probably going to need to homebrew something, because there are no light category chain weapons- the best you can do is one-handed flails or scourges, which will give you massive TWF penalties.


Chain Devils (Kyton) use chains as weapons. From there we get 2d4 damage with a standard (x2) crit rate (the creature has improved critical for it).
I guess I could homebrew using the chain devil's chain weapons.

[Darrin]

Oriental Adventures is the only first party 3.x book that I know of with "chain" as a weapon: it's a chain with weighted ends and functions exactly as the Spiked Chain in the PHB except it deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage instead of 2d4 piercing (it also gains the same double weapon vs reach buff OA gave the spiked chain, but that's not the main point here).


The "chain lash" in Savage Species is identical to the "chain" in OA, so it does appear in another 3.x book. The "snake chain" supposedly used by medusa is in there as well, but the stats are identical to the chain lash. Savage Species also has the "barbed chain" allegedly used by the kyton, but the damage is off (probably a minor discrepancy between 3.0 and 3.5).

If you want to wield a chain in each hand... I'd use the kusari-gama from the DMG. It's a light reach weapon that can attack adjacent, and you can dual-wield them without too much fuss. If you want something one-handed instead of light, then the spinning sword from Secrets of Sarlona is somewhat similar, although the description sounds much more like the urumi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi) than a chain-style weapon.

There is a way to wield a spiked chain one-handed, though: Cavestalker 4 (Drow of the Underdark) has this ability as part of its Exotic Combat Style.

[weckar]

It may be slightly off-topic, but I can't fathom any way of using any of these without hurting yourself more than your opponent...

[Bartmanhomer]

It may be slightly off-topic, but I can't fathom any way of using any of these without hurting yourself more than your opponent...

What do you mean? :confused:

[weckar]

I mean that chains seem too unwieldy, unbalanced and unpredictable to be used as practical weapons unless you have somesort of mystical control over them.

They are more likely to hurt the person using them than whomever the target of the attack is!

[Bartmanhomer]

I mean that chains seem too unwieldy, unbalanced and unpredictable to be used as practical weapons unless you have somesort of mystical control over them.

They are more likely to hurt the person using them than whomever the target of the attack is!

Oh I see. But what about proper training or feats?

[Darrin]

I mean that chains seem too unwieldy, unbalanced and unpredictable to be used as practical weapons unless you have somesort of mystical control over them.

"Soft" weapons based on the meteor hammer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_hammer) and kusari-gama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muromachi_period) were sometimes used as practical weapons outside of Wuxia/ninja movies. I already mentioned the urumi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi), which goes back to 300 BCE, and has presumably been taught as part of Indian martial arts for the last two centuries. The "spring cosh" used by German police during WWII is somewhat similar (Gibson refers to it as a "Cobra" in Neuromancer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer), although I believe it's more commonly referred to as an "asp").

Yes, they require considerable training to use without hurting yourself. I'm not sure how often they are actually used as weapons instead of shown off or sold to gullible tourists. My understanding is the weapons themselves aren't really all that more effective than a more traditional melee weapon, but they have such a significant "surprise" element that most trained soldiers/guards/police aren't taught how to effectively counter or parry them. So you get one attack against someone who doesn't know how to defend against it, then you drop it and withdraw while your opponent deals with the consequences.

The spring cosh, as I understand it, is much nastier, as the torque from the spring tends to break bones when wielded by a skilled user. It's considered an illegal or banned weapon in a lot of states/countries.

[Fizban]

The "chain lash" in Savage Species
Right. That book has "mouthpicks" so I tend to forget there's any weapons in there.

I'd use the kusari-gama from the DMG. It's a light reach weapon that can attack adjacent, and you can dual-wield them without too much fuss.
Which is why I'd not use it: dual wielding 10' versatile light reach weapons when you can't even one-hand any other reach weapon except a cavalry lance (and only when on a horse), is rather too far.

There is a way to wield a spiked chain one-handed, though: Cavestalker 4 (Drow of the Underdark) has this ability as part of its Exotic Combat Style.
I hate drow so much. It's a toss up as to weather it's worse when it's limited to drow-only, or when it's not. This one doesn't require you to be drow, but does require you to specifically have the ranger's two-weapon fighting style in order to gain that benefit. But that's only 2 levels so you have 3 more for rogue before the PrC.


It may be slightly off-topic, but I can't fathom any way of using any of these without hurting yourself more than your opponent...
Pick up a length of properly heavy chain, slap it into your hand, and then imagine someone trying to beat you to death with it. It's a classic gang weapon.

What you're probably thinking of are the ridiculous spiked chains they keep putting in dnd picutres, with spikes all down the length. Those don't exist. You can put a weight or a spiked weight or blade on the end of a chain and get an effective weapon, which goes by various names depending on where it comes from. I imagine it takes some learning to figure out how to quickly turn the chain to hit people while spinning it without hurting yourself, but it's a thing.

A thing that requires two hands. So you can't wield two of them*. Now a whip, technically you can dual-wield in DnD, but it's a one-handed weapon so you eat more penalties, and because you have to heft it up and commit to each attack it doesn't threaten for AoOs. So people don't dual-wield whips. Attempting to dual wield chains should either limit them to normal melee reach (OA's dual-wield option pops up again), or have the same problems as a whip, if not worse.

*This is where someone digs up a video of a guy bending the chain around his body to direct it, but unless they're doing it with two at a time I'm not buying it.

[Ashtagon]

It may be slightly off-topic, but I can't fathom any way of using any of these without hurting yourself more than your opponent...

The urumi would like a word with you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so-5A789uwU

[Deophaun]

(Gibson refers to it as a "Cobra" in Neuromancer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer), although I believe it's more commonly referred to as an "asp").
An asp is an extensible baton. Specifically, it's an extensible baton made by ASP, which is why it's called an asp. Like how tissues are often called Kleenex.

[ShurikVch]

How's in such thread nobody still mentioned the Master of Chains PrC (Sword and Fist)? (I know, it's infamous for it's huge number of prerequisite feats (6), but in truth - all of those feats are Fighter's bonus feats)


Also, chain is usable for strangulation attack (Dragon #355)