Magical secrets now that XGtE is out?

[Harrysonford]

Does anyone know what good spells are for a bards magical secrets at lvs 6, 10, 14, and 18? Those from Xanathars and those that aren’t?

[Naanomi]

I’ve heard talk of using Tenser’s Transformation for Valor/Sword Bards

[Aymon]

Well a classic spell to take at 6th is counterspell, but the new spell identification rules mean that DM conversation is needed before taking it..

[Naanomi]

Well a classic spell to take at 6th is counterspell, but the new spell identification rules mean that DM conversation is needed before taking it..
And then still probably take it because it is pretty good either way, especially with Jack of All Trades/Peerless Skill

[tkuremento]

I’ve heard talk of using Tenser’s Transformation for Valor/Sword Bards

Can't you combine it with Whispers instead to get that damage from Psychic Blades (only once per round, but still) on top of the Tenser's Transformation damage, plus then you get the benefit of the second attack that the spell offers since Whispers doesn't get extra attack?

[Pex]

Absorb Elements is a popular spell.

I hear Healing Spirit has been getting chatter.

[Skyblaze]

I have an idea for a psychic damage dealing bard, he'd be taking Mental Prison.

[Unoriginal]

I have an idea for a psychic damage dealing bard, he'd be taking Mental Prison.

Will he sing "we don't need no education" while casting it?

[StorytellerHero]

Tiny Servant is probably going to be one of the more popular spells in the book.

Who doesn't love minionmancy, amiright?

:smallbiggrin:

[suplee215]

Is Shadowblade (2nd level) on a valor or blade worth it?

[RSP]

Is Shadowblade (2nd level) on a valor or blade worth it?

I'd take it for either probably. As a Sword Bard you could be a pretty good damage dealer just using slots for that.

[Crusher]

I'd take it for either probably. As a Sword Bard you could be a pretty good damage dealer just using slots for that.

Shadow Blade perplexes me. I'd never considered Magic Weapon even worth using, much less OP, yet now Shadow Blade is storming the gates and I'm having trouble deciding how I feel about it.

[agnos]

Is Shadowblade (2nd level) on a valor or blade worth it?
At second level, it’s a likely equivocal damage (maybe slightly less) than a +1 2d6 weapon. At 3rd level, I’d expect a slight increase in DPR; at 5th level I’d expect a moderate DPR increase. DPR-wise, I’d expect that Elemental Weapon will usually outscale it because of the accuracy upgrade. That said, about half the time (vs low to moderate ACs) I think the accuracy upgrade is worse than Shadow Blade.

As for useful Magical Secrets, they’re pretty obvious. Absorb Elements, Bones of the Earth, Dawn, Find Greater Steed, Guardian of Nature, Healing Spirit, Holy Weapon, Illusory Dragon, Maddening Darkness, Shadow Blade, Sickening Radiance, Steel Wind Strike, Tensor’s Transformation.

Some of those include asterisks for when/how they’re worth. E.g. Holy Weapon really is only good if you can put it on a Fighter.

[Matrix_Walker]

My first thought upon seeing Improved Find Steed was that it was a perfect candidate for Magical Secrets.

>Drool<

[Spiritchaser]

Healing spirit seems like a great pick

[Beechgnome]

For flavor, Danse Macabre. Bonus points if your arcane focus is a fiddle.

[Sception]

And then still probably take it because it is pretty good either way, especially with Jack of All Trades/Peerless Skill

Why would Jack of All Trades/Peerless Skill make Counterspell better for a bard? Unless there's been further errata/clarification reversing things since XGE came out, if you spend your reaction making the skill check to identify a spell, then you can't even attempt to cast Counterspell. Having those skill boosts makes counterspell better for anyone else in the party, oddly enough, since you can burn a reaction to identify the spell, then yell what it is, and then someone else can cast counterspell. But you can't just counterspell it yourself, as dumb as that is in character.

[Talamare]

Why would Jack of All Trades/Peerless Skill make Counterspell better for a bard? Unless there's been further errata/clarification reversing things since XGE came out, if you spend your reaction making the skill check to identify a spell, then you can't even attempt to cast Counterspell. Having those skill boosts makes counterspell better for anyone else in the party, oddly enough, since you can burn a reaction to identify the spell, then yell what it is, and then someone else can cast counterspell. But you can't just counterspell it yourself, as dumb as that is in character.

Just counterspell it yourself, and Jack gives you half proficiency bonus on the check

[Caelic]

Why would Jack of All Trades/Peerless Skill make Counterspell better for a bard? Unless there's been further errata/clarification reversing things since XGE came out, if you spend your reaction making the skill check to identify a spell, then you can't even attempt to cast Counterspell. Having those skill boosts makes counterspell better for anyone else in the party, oddly enough, since you can burn a reaction to identify the spell, then yell what it is, and then someone else can cast counterspell. But you can't just counterspell it yourself, as dumb as that is in character.


The fact that it's such a PITA to identify the spell prior to counterspelling means people will usually be countering blind. The fact that they'll usually be countering blind means they'll need to rely on a counterspell check more often. The fact that they'll need to rely on a dice roll more often means that bonuses to the counterspell check are more valuable, Q.E.D.

[Specter]

You can't go wrong with Counterspell. The rest depends on your college, and how you plan to be useful. Fill us in.

[Coidzor]

The fact that it's such a PITA to identify the spell prior to counterspelling means people will usually be countering blind. The fact that they'll usually be countering blind means they'll need to rely on a counterspell check more often. The fact that they'll need to rely on a dice roll more often means that bonuses to the counterspell check are more valuable, Q.E.D.

It also means that they'll be wasting Counterspells more often, so there's a bit of a wash there.

[Wilb]

Find Greater Steed + Tenser's or Crown of Stars?

[Caelic]

It also means that they'll be wasting Counterspells more often, so there's a bit of a wash there.


Maybe. Honestly, though, my lore bard very seldom throws anything higher than a third level Counterspell anyway. Given the number of ways he can skew the dice roll, it's REALLY hard to fail the check. 'Course, he's 16th level--without Peerless Skill, it's more of a gamble.

[polymphus]

Steel Wind Strike is also up there. 30d10 force damage for 1 5th-level spell slot is pretty bananas.

[SpamCreateWater]

Tiny Servant is probably going to be one of the more popular spells in the book.

Who doesn't love minionmancy, amiright?

:smallbiggrin:

Mini-ionmancy, perhaps?

[History_buff]

I’m going to be taking Steel Wind Strike and Find Greater Steed on my College of Swords/Fighter character.

[Chunkosaurus]

Tenser's transformation is best on a college of whispers bard, although my swords bard will probably take it. Shadow Blade and steel wind strike are excellent. I'm kind of mad that mental prison and mind spike aren't already Bard spells as messing with minds like that is the Bard's specialty.

[Mjolnirbear]

It also means that they'll be wasting Counterspells more often, so there's a bit of a wash there.

I don't understand this irrational fear of wasting a counterspell.

No enemy mage is going to look at you thinking "I could cast my I win spell, but he looks like a caster, so I better cast Unseen Servant to draw out any counterspell. "

When we had pure vancian magic, it might have been a useful tactic. But now you can use any spell slot of high enough level to counterspell. And the BBEM can likewise use any spell slot of high enough level to cast his I Win spell.

Furthermore, counterspell just outright blocks the BBEM's turn. Which is the function of counterspell.

Assume any casting of the BBEM will screw your group, and counter it. Preventing the BBEM from casting is an I Win condition. Who cares what spell it is? The BBEM is locked down for the few turns it takes to neutralizer him. Congrats. Counterspell won the encounter without you even knowing if all you did was counter cantrips.

[Bloodcloud]

I don't understand this irrational fear of wasting a counterspell.

No enemy mage is going to look at you thinking "I could cast my I win spell, but he looks like a caster, so I better cast Unseen Servant to draw out any counterspell. "

When we had pure vancian magic, it might have been a useful tactic. But now you can use any spell slot of high enough level to counterspell. And the BBEM can likewise use any spell slot of high enough level to cast his I Win spell.

Furthermore, counterspell just outright blocks the BBEM's turn. Which is the function of counterspell.

Assume any casting of the BBEM will screw your group, and counter it. Preventing the BBEM from casting is an I Win condition. Who cares what spell it is? The BBEM is locked down for the few turns it takes to neutralizer him. Congrats. Counterspell won the encounter without you even knowing if all you did was counter cantrips.

I concur. Combat typically doesn't last more than a few rounds in dnd 5e. If the enemy caster is delaying his big spell a round, that's still good for the players.

[Toofey]

Will he sing "we don't need no education" while casting it?

And now... Wonderwall.

[samcifer]

If it's possible, you could take Illusory Dragon. It sounds like a really fun spell to play and even if they realize that it's an illusion, you still have a chance to damage them with it.

[Dalebert]

Assume any casting of the BBEM will screw your group, and counter it. Preventing the BBEM from casting is an I Win condition. Who cares what spell it is? The BBEM is locked down for the few turns it takes to neutralizer him. Congrats. Counterspell won the encounter without you even knowing if all you did was counter cantrips.

OMG, this! If the threat of Counterspell (which requires actually using it when he casts) is enough to intimidate him into throwing out crappy low-levels spells instead of his Feebleminds and massive explosions of necrotic energy spells and stun-your-tank-no-save spells then it's still amazing. I can't believe people are quibbling about identifying spells. Trust me. They're bad. Counter them!

[Naanomi]

If someone ever casts Unseen Servant instead of something combat-worthy because I have counter-spell... then I successfully counterspelled. It isn’t like most combats drag on long enough for big casters to use all their slots

[Sception]

The fact that it's such a PITA to identify the spell prior to counterspelling means people will usually be countering blind. The fact that they'll usually be countering blind means they'll need to rely on a counterspell check more often. The fact that they'll need to rely on a dice roll more often means that bonuses to the counterspell check are more valuable, Q.E.D.

I had a brain fart and thought the suggestion was adding bard bonuses to identifying spells, not to the counterspell check itself.