What do players do in Ars Magica?

[Yora]

After probably hours of searching, I wasn't able to find any trace of information about what players are actually supposed to be doing in an Ars Magica campaign. Which includes the 4th edition rulebook. Some people seem to think that it's best to leave your main character at home to study and do the actual adventures with the secondaries, but what are they doing then?

[BWR]

You mean, what are the magi doing instead of a adventuring?
Studying and lab work. That stuff takes ages. It might very well take you a couple of seasons to research a spell you want, or a year or more to enchant that one powerful item, so you don't have time for nasty, inefficient, dangerous, boring, time-wasting things like adventures.

What do magi/companions/grogs do in general?
What don't they do? Look up some old adventures for ideas. Adventures related to vis gathering, exploring regios, fighting off demon invasions, negotiating with local nobility, politicking with other magi, hosting knightly tournaments, fixing ghost problems for the locals, pissing off Poseidon while on a sea voyage (not my greatest moment), slice-of-life episodes with interesting grogs, being kidnapped by a hot faerie chick who wants to marry you and trying to convince her father not to eat you, playing familiar/animal companion-only adventures, contacting hedge traditions to steal learn their secrets, etc, etc. etc.

[Yora]

So basically standard fantasy stuff, except that the powerful wise wizard allies are also controlled by the players?

[BWR]

Pretty much.
Not a lot of saving the world, though.

[RazorChain]

Ars Magica is based on troupe play so you make both a Magus and a Companion. Then the whole troupe will make the third type of characters together, the grogs which belongs to everyone.

Companions are competent heroes that often travel with Magi or hang around the Covenant. The third type of character, the grog, is your Joe nobody, simple workers or guardsmen who work at the Covenant. The players will take the role of all these characters and the Covenant is the main character in Ars Magica played by everyone because all the characters belong to the Covenant.


Most or even all adventures will have a Magus character and even sometimes multiple Magi whereas other players will either play Companions or Grogs. The Magi who are left alone at the Covenant will do magical research, transcribe books, study, make magic items, make new spells or work on bettering the Covenant.

Thematic to the game is seasons, the Story Guide (GM) might run an adventure every season or every few years depending on the scope of the campaign. In a campaign I was a Co-GM for we ran a adventure every season for the first 3 years or so while the group set up the Covenant and after that we had an adventure once a year. Ars Magica is one of the better systems to have multiple GMs as it's easy to have a character that is off screen and the adventures are often more self contained.

[LibraryOgre]

After probably hours of searching, I wasn't able to find any trace of information about what players are actually supposed to be doing in an Ars Magica campaign. Which includes the 4th edition rulebook. Some people seem to think that it's best to leave your main character at home to study and do the actual adventures with the secondaries, but what are they doing then?

Being a troupe-style game, the idea is that your magus will link up with someone else's consortes and have adventures designed around your themes.

So, let's say we have a troupe. The players are Wendy, John, Michael, and Peter.

Peter wants to play in Fae stories. He's going to make a Merinta magus.

Wendy wants to play in investigation stories; she's a Quaesitor.

John likes noble stories, so he's making Jerbiton magus

Michael likes to blow **** up. He's playing a Flambeau.

Now, everyone takes a look at everyone else's Magi and comes up with a complementary (or contrasting) consortes to play.

Peter thinks it would be fun to play Watson to Wendy's Holmes, so he make a Priest to accompany Wendy's Quaesitor... she'll damn you before the law, he'll save your soul.

Wendy decides to make a snooty local noblewoman... a romantic foil for John's Jerbiton.

John is also a fan of killing things, so he makes a Knight that accompanies Michael Flambeau most of the time.

Michael makes a faerie consortes. For fun, he makes her TINY and MUTE, just to get something different going.

So, Peter and Wendy go together on investigations, with John or Michael playing grogs, and the other one telling the stories.

Wendy and John go together on Noble stories, with Peter and Michael playing grogs and SG.

John and Michael got together on the monster-killing quests. Wendy usually runs those, and Peter plays the grogs.

Michael and Peter play their consortes and magus on the faerie quests, usually with John running and Wendy covering the grogs.

Now, these might get mixed up a bit, depending on the story... Michael's Flambeau might accompany Wendy's noblewoman from time to time, or Wendy's Quaesitor might find a comfort in John's Knight's presence when going into a particularly physical situation. And you might have the occasional Tribunal game where everyone but the SG is playing their maga/us.

The default assumption is there will be one story a season. If, in any given season, your character is sidelined, you get to spend it in research and training (or obligation, if one of your traits requires you to spend a season in service).

[Anonymouswizard]

Note that in a game without companions it devolves into 'Academia: the RPG', with players arguing over access to papers and the pyromancer getting banned from the library (my friend claims he was allowed back in under supervision).

But yeah, I love Ars Magica, but it's essentially two games. The academia simulator with the Magi, and fantasy adventuring with the Companions and potentially the Magi.

[Jama7301]

Being a troupe-style game, the idea is that your magus will link up with someone else's consortes and have adventures designed around your themes.

So, let's say we have a troupe. The players are Wendy, John, Michael, and Peter.

Peter wants to play in Fae stories. He's going to make a Merinta magus.

Wendy wants to play in investigation stories; she's a Quaesitor.

John likes noble stories, so he's making Jerbiton magus

Michael likes to blow **** up. He's playing a Flambeau.

Now, everyone takes a look at everyone else's Magi and comes up with a complementary (or contrasting) consortes to play.

Peter thinks it would be fun to play Watson to Wendy's Holmes, so he make a Priest to accompany Wendy's Quaesitor... she'll damn you before the law, he'll save your soul.

Wendy decides to make a snooty local noblewoman... a romantic foil for John's Jerbiton.

John is also a fan of killing things, so he makes a Knight that accompanies Michael Flambeau most of the time.

Michael makes a faerie consortes. For fun, he makes her TINY and MUTE, just to get something different going.

So, Peter and Wendy go together on investigations, with John or Michael playing grogs, and the other one telling the stories.

Wendy and John go together on Noble stories, with Peter and Michael playing grogs and SG.

John and Michael got together on the monster-killing quests. Wendy usually runs those, and Peter plays the grogs.

Michael and Peter play their consortes and magus on the faerie quests, usually with John running and Wendy covering the grogs.

Now, these might get mixed up a bit, depending on the story... Michael's Flambeau might accompany Wendy's noblewoman from time to time, or Wendy's Quaesitor might find a comfort in John's Knight's presence when going into a particularly physical situation. And you might have the occasional Tribunal game where everyone but the SG is playing their maga/us.

The default assumption is there will be one story a season. If, in any given season, your character is sidelined, you get to spend it in research and training (or obligation, if one of your traits requires you to spend a season in service).
This sounds rad as all get out.

[LibraryOgre]

This sounds rad as all get out.

It can be, but requires a good group. If the only person interested in doing fae stories wants to make a fae magus... well, then, they're not going to have a good time. A common temptation (that I saw in PBEM games) was for people's Consortes and Magus to complement each other... so, Bob will have a Magus who goes well with their consortes, which isn't what works best. If you have one primary SG who tells most of the stories, their character tends to get pretty powerful, since there's nothing for them to do but study.

[Jama7301]

Regardless, it's getting added to the long list of "games I need to rope some friends into playing at least once".

[JeenLeen]

How does experience work in that game?
Mainly, if you are playing a consort, do you get xp for that consort, or do you as a player get xp that you can spend on your magus or different consortes? What about if you play as a no-name grog?

I think I'd really enjoy this game if I had a group that met consistently enough for us to take turns. It's an awesome way to keep IC consistency of not having the main PC go on every quest, while still keeping PCs involved. And I like he seasonal research/other-duties aspect.
Unfortunately, my real-life group likely isn't interested nor have time for it.

[BWR]

You have basically three types: adventure, practice and exposure.
Adventure XP is for everyone who has been on an adventure, and is usually the same for everyone.
Practice XP is just that: a concerted effort to learn or improve a skill, and learning magic from books can be seen as practice, even if xp from books often gives more than the base practice amount.
Exposure is exposure, you get a few xp simply because you do something, without much by the way of experimentation or effort to learn.

XP is awarded based on seasons, and while you could conceivably adventure and practice in a single season, you only get xp from one of them. Exposure is sometimes added on top of these but more often awarded for seasons where you do something that doesn't grant xp, like copying manuscripts or creating a new spell or simply being the cook.
Characters who don't do anything for an extended period of time are assumed to have spent about half the year practicing and half the year being exposed. At least that's how we've done it. I've never actually looked that up because two of our players have near encyclopedic knowledge of the game and just throw out this sort of information and I take their word for it.

[LibraryOgre]

How does experience work in that game?
Mainly, if you are playing a consort, do you get xp for that consort, or do you as a player get xp that you can spend on your magus or different consortes? What about if you play as a no-name grog?

I think I'd really enjoy this game if I had a group that met consistently enough for us to take turns. It's an awesome way to keep IC consistency of not having the main PC go on every quest, while still keeping PCs involved. And I like he seasonal research/other-duties aspect.
Unfortunately, my real-life group likely isn't interested nor have time for it.

XP is awarded per character, not per player (and as BWR lays out).

By way of example, let's assume Wendy is running one of her slug-fests for the Summer of 1195. It's campaign season, and Michael's Flambeau has hired out (on the downlow) as a mercenary for a local lord, to whom John's Knight is beholden. Peter is playing the grogs... three custos (elite (for grogs) warriors) from the turb (the group of warriors who protect the covenant) and John's squire.

At the end of the Summer of 1195, Michael's Flambeau and John's Knight will get adventure XP, as will the custos and John's squire. Peter's Magus and his priest, Wendy's Maga and her noblewoman, Michael's faerie, John's magus, and the rest of the grogs will get Study or Practice XP, depending on what they did that summer. Exposure XP (IIRC) is largely based on "There is stuff going on around you that you will pick up"... languages, cultures, etc.

[Tyrrell]

Here's an answer to the question of what Ars Magica characters do that I wrote decades ago when I played fourth edition. It still seems good today.

They travel to Crete to uncover the ancient mysteries of the Pythagoreans.

They balance their responsibilities to the duke of Savoy against their oath of fraternity.

They lay waste to the invading Mongol hordes throwing javelins of fire from their flying carpets

They capture the magic essence of the poisonous wyrm of Gloucester and use it to create a sword that passes through metal as if it were butter.

They study the cocoons of magical butterflies in order to master the arts of transformation.

They form back room political deals in order to protect themselves from the machinations of their rivals during the Wizard's tribunal.

They wager their ability to smell bread and flowers against a faerie lord in a game of chance.

They invent subtle spells to use in intrigues that last for decades

They defend their behavior against charges of Heresy in front of the cardinal of Ulm

They chase ghosts through the sewers of Barcelona while searching for the tomes of Apromor's apprentice.

Etcetera, etcetera

Some common themes of ars Magica Sagas (with links to some of the fifth edition books that support the ideas, yes I know you're doing fourth but the fourth edition catalog is old and everything fourth did well the fifth edition authors learned from and did at least as well)

Recovery of Ancient magic/ invention of new magic- the PC's search out some extinct magical tradition or obscure magiaal place or thing and use it to advance the practice of magic - (wizards + Indiana Jones + mad scientists)
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0284.php
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0297.php

The Monster in the basement - the PC's are sitting on top of a powerful demon/Dragon/Pagan god that's going to wake up one day and mess the PC's lives up something fierce. The PC's race against time and ignorance to stop it.
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0303.php

Here's how it really happened - Gengis Khan leads his golden Horde (of warriors/ zombies/ Demons) across Europe until stopped by the PC's. Or perhaps it's the black plague or The third or fourth crusade that needs to be stopped.
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0294.php
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0304.php

Onward to the Magical future - the rules make Hermetic magi powerful, the code of HErmes is not particularly restrictive. It's to bring about a magic-ustrial revolution, or recognition of the Order of Hermes as the fourth estate, or simply magicking up a new island or continent in the Atlantic and placing your flag on it.
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0299.php
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0302.php
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0306.php

Let's just fit in - The PC's are part of a big and complex society. They have magic that is powerful and breaks stuff. They have to find a way to deal with the consequences of their actions -pretty much every book ever.

The world is coming to an end. Let's stop it
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0314.php

[BWR]

Onward to the Magical future - the rules make Hermetic magi powerful, the code of HErmes is not particularly restrictive. It's to bring about a magic-ustrial revolution, or recognition of the Order of Hermes as the fourth estate, or simply magicking up a new island or continent in the Atlantic and placing your flag on it.


Going fully Tipyyverse is actually surprisingly easy in AM - it's not merely possible by RAW, the basics exist in the setting. It's just that people in the setting don't do this and most players don't want to do it because that will quickly change the setting to something barely recognizable. I was well on my way to doing this in our first saga, with some other players doing a fair amount, until we realized just how disruptive what we were doing would be. We decided that we liked the setting enough to not intentionally break it, so we toned things down.

[LibraryOgre]

Going fully Tipyyverse is actually surprisingly easy in AM - it's not merely possible by RAW, the basics exist in the setting. It's just that people in the setting don't do this and most players don't want to do it because that will quickly change the setting to something barely recognizable. I was well on my way to doing this in our first saga, with some other players doing a fair amount, until we realized just how disruptive what we were doing would be. We decided that we liked the setting enough to not intentionally break it, so we toned things down.

There is the implication that the Order currently exists on sufferance, and going full Tippyverse would shove them out of the sufferance of the church. All it would take is a cranky Pope, and suddenly you've got "Why go all the way to the Holy Land to kill the unclean when we've got wizards right here?" And if you diddle with a lord's or abbot's income, he might start agitating against you. IIRC, the Peripheral Code also heavily restricts what you can and cannot provide to those outside of the covenant in terms of magical support.

And this says nothing of the fact that FULL Tippy is blocked by some of the limits of hermetic magic.

[BWR]

There is the implication that the Order currently exists on sufferance, and going full Tippyverse would shove them out of the sufferance of the church. All it would take is a cranky Pope, and suddenly you've got "Why go all the way to the Holy Land to kill the unclean when we've got wizards right here?" And if you diddle with a lord's or abbot's income, he might start agitating against you. IIRC, the Peripheral Code also heavily restricts what you can and cannot provide to those outside of the covenant in terms of magical support.

And this says nothing of the fact that FULL Tippy is blocked by some of the limits of hermetic magic.

I was thinking mostly of the Teleportation Circle-based economy, which is not a problem to implement should Order wish, and that is the core of the Tippyverse. I guess I phrased that badly, if one considers infinitely replicating magic items and other tortured readings of 3.5 rules as the full Tippyverse.
Magi, should they wish, could easily dominate the mundane world. Sure, they'll run into a bit of a problem with the Church but it doesn't reliably pump out specific effects other than divine auras, and most divine auras aren't that inhibiting.

[LibraryOgre]

I was thinking mostly of the Teleportation Circle-based economy, which is not a problem to implement should Order wish, and that is the core of the Tippyverse. I guess I phrased that badly, if one considers infinitely replicating magic items and other tortured readings of 3.5 rules as the full Tippyverse.
Magi, should they wish, could easily dominate the mundane world. Sure, they'll run into a bit of a problem with the Church but it doesn't reliably pump out specific effects other than divine auras, and most divine auras aren't that inhibiting.

Not sure I agree with that. I mean, in 5e, Hermes Portal is a level 75 ritual that lasts a year, and needs to be cast twice. That means you need 50 Rego and/or Terram vis a year, and two people capable of casting 25th magnitude ReTe effects. And that's per link in the chain... you can forge your London-to-Rome link, and do quite well for a year, but then you need another 50 pawns next year. If you look at page 72 of ArM5, you'd need two slightly-more-than-medium covenants to devote their entire year's worth of vis to this one ritual.

4th edition is cheaper, since it's a permanent duration (instead of year), but you're still looking at a mighty expense.

[Tyrrell]

The Mercere have an enchanted device (HoH: True lineages p 100) that's basically a permanent Hermes portal but it involves crafting two level 65 devices and then doing simultaneous level 75 rituals at each device to open the tunnel, so it's still not easy.

However you could create some enchanted devices with range touch target circle Rego Terram (with requisites of Animal, Aquam, Corpus and Herbam) enchantments to teleport a circle's worth of targets to where your arcane connection connects to. There are examples of devices using arcane connections. This plan would be at least a little feasible, if still difficult.

[BWR]

Not sure I agree with that. I mean, in 5e, Hermes Portal is a level 75 ritual that lasts a year, and needs to be cast twice. That means you need 50 Rego and/or Terram vis a year, and two people capable of casting 25th magnitude ReTe effects. And that's per link in the chain... you can forge your London-to-Rome link, and do quite well for a year, but then you need another 50 pawns next year. If you look at page 72 of ArM5, you'd need two slightly-more-than-medium covenants to devote their entire year's worth of vis to this one ritual.

4th edition is cheaper, since it's a permanent duration (instead of year), but you're still looking at a mighty expense.

Hm, could have sworn it was permanent. Either way, still incredibly worth it if you are concerned with money. It may be expensive but that would still pay for itself rather quickly when you consider how convenient it would be for so many people to have instantaneous transportation, not to mention the political power you would get through economic might. It would be prohibitively expensive for short distances, obviously, but say Rome to Byzantium? So worth it.

I have made small scale transporters in AM before and those were totally worth it the effort and expense.

[flond]

Hm, could have sworn it was permanent. Either way, still incredibly worth it if you are concerned with money. It may be expensive but that would still pay for itself rather quickly when you consider how convenient it would be for so many people to have instantaneous transportation, not to mention the political power you would get through economic might. It would be prohibitively expensive for short distances, obviously, but say Rome to Byzantium? So worth it.

I have made small scale transporters in AM before and those were totally worth it the effort and expense.

Well, for one thing, remember that the Dominion in both those spots is massive. So, Rome adjacent, and Byzantium adjacent.

Secondly, remember that (too obvious) meddling with mortals is against Order law. Specifically because too much taking sides gets you hammered to death by priests.

EDIT:

Also, for "what do wizards do"

The answer is politics! (Always fun. You do have to go to meetings and the like, and those are great places for horse trading, and having to end up in a fight to the death)

and acquisition! (That vis won't get itself!) and tournaments (wizard tournaments!) and...recovering from your terrible mistakes)

[Tyrrell]

Hm, could have sworn it was permanent. The enchanted device version in True Lineages is permanent.

[BWR]

Secondly, remember that (too obvious) meddling with mortals is against Order law. Specifically because too much taking sides gets you hammered to death by priests.


Technically the Oath is "Nor will I interfere with the affairs of mundanes and thereby bring ruin on my sodales", leaving a lot of leeway in interpretation depending on if the first part is illegal only if the second occurs. Hence the difference between the Tribnunals on the matter. Rhine, I believe, leans very heavily towards no interference beyond the bare necessities, and Normandy is pretty lax about the whole thing so long as nothing bad happens to the Order as a whole.

Tangentially, we actually had a priest lead a peasant revolt against our convenant once. We let them in and they disappeared in the regios, never to be seen again.

[flond]

Technically the Oath is "Nor will I interfere with the affairs of mundanes and thereby bring ruin on my sodales", leaving a lot of leeway in interpretation depending on if the first part is illegal only if the second occurs. Hence the difference between the Tribnunals on the matter. Rhine, I believe, leans very heavily towards no interference beyond the bare necessities, and Normandy is pretty lax about the whole thing so long as nothing bad happens to the Order as a whole.

Tangentially, we actually had a priest lead a peasant revolt against our convenant once. We let them in and they disappeared in the regios, never to be seen again.

That's fair. I do feel though that creating a long term portal between two major cities and letting mundane merchants use it should for sure count..

[LibraryOgre]

That's fair. I do feel though that creating a long term portal between two major cities and letting mundane merchants use it should for sure count..

I think that one would definitely raise some eyebrows, yeah.

[Yuki Akuma]

The problem with being opposed by the Church is that, while individual clergy may not be that impressive, and even a full Crusade could probably be repelled by a group of powerful Magi...

The Church is backed by an Infinite Might Divine Spirit called 'God' who can do literally anything.

The Church is well aware that the Hermetic Order could destroy them. And the Hermetic Order is well aware that God could destroy them. So there's a bit of a MAD thing going on between them right now.

[RazorChain]

The problem with being opposed by the Church is that, while individual clergy may not be that impressive, and even a full Crusade could probably be repelled by a group of powerful Magi...

The Church is backed by an Infinite Might Divine Spirit called 'God' who can do literally anything.

The Church is well aware that the Hermetic Order could destroy them. And the Hermetic Order is well aware that God could destroy them. So there's a bit of a MAD thing going on between them right now.

And don't forget that some Magi are religious and the Magi run tribunals and don't have a supreme leader and the houses aren't always i agreement. So if it came to war with the Church it would probably cause a schism within the Order.

[Faily]

There is also a philosophy in the Order of Hermes that The Gift is a divine blessing from God... mostly popular in House Jerbiton.

[Tyrrell]

There are lots of little hermetic societies that are Christian.

The (mostly) Flambeau milites are Christian

The Criamon Path of walking backwards has Christian members (and sufi).

A core aspect of House Tremere is a reaction to being betrayed gods in its pre-hermetic past and deciding that no gods are worthy of human worship.... with the exception of the Christian god who sacrificed himself for humans rather than the converse, he gets a pass.

Then there is the Priory of Saint Nerius a group of Christian magi practicing Holy magic.

But if you have a setting in a mythic version of 13th century Europe it really breaks believability if there isn't a strong representation of Christians the magical societies of Europe - especially with corporeal angels and active saints wandering around the setting.

[LibraryOgre]

IIRC, about the only two Houses where at least nominal Christianity isn't the norm are Bjornaer (pagan shapechanging magi) and Merinita (faerie-magi). You might not be a highly religious Bonisagus, and your Quaesitor may put the lapsed in lapsed Catholic, but the intertwining of academic knowledge, societal religiousity, and the literal, provable, power of the Divine makes at least a lip-service deism de rigeur for most of the Order, IMO.

[Tyrrell]

IIRC, about the only two Houses where at least nominal Christianity isn't the norm are Bjornaer (pagan shapechanging magi) and Merinita (faerie-magi). You might not be a highly religious Bonisagus, and your Quaesitor may put the lapsed in lapsed Catholic, but the intertwining of academic knowledge, societal religiousity, and the literal, provable, power of the Divine makes at least a lip-service deism de rigeur for most of the Order, IMO.
That's certainly how I play it. In fact, most of my Merinita are Christian as well. Just because someone initiates into the secrets of faerie magic doesn't mean that they're trying to become one or worship one. I think with sufficient Faerie lore, Paganism eventually starts to look unwise (in the setting).

Not that initiating the mystery of the becoming and changing oneself into an immortal faerie is a poor choice, but from the perspective of the character if they believe that they've got an eternal afterlife on the way, and that the world will come to an end eventually the choice isn't necessarily a wise one. (Also there is the possibility that the process doesn't grant immortality but instead destroys the caster and replaces them with a faerie that merely shares his or her memories and personality.)

[LibraryOgre]

That's certainly how I play it. In fact, most of my Merinita are Christian as well. Just because someone initiates into the secrets of faerie magic doesn't mean that they're trying to become one or worship one. I think with sufficient Faerie lore, Paganism eventually starts to look unwise (in the setting).

I tend to disagree, but that may be because I got into Ars Magica when I was heavily into real-world Paganism.

I think going Pagan in Ars Magica represents, for many magi (non-Major Characters likely stayed how they were raised) a more controllable path, and a degree of accepting the consequences of it. If I choose to ally with ancient deities, who are usually Magic or Fae-aligned, then I can strike a deal with them and, theoretically, get what I want, at a cost I can negotiate. This doesn't always work out, but the fact that the world of Ars Magica is explicitly not Manichean (i.e. While the Divine and Infernal explicitly exist, the fae and magic are also explicitly not either one... a third choice, as it were) means that it can seem a viable option for those who don't want to tow the line demanded by the Divine, but are unwilling to pay the price demanded by the Infernal.

The Mod Wonder: Feel free to argue with my black-text, but be careful; I had to watch myself to be sure I was keeping it Ars Magica relevant.

[JeenLeen]

In the game, does magic sometimes not function well in sanctified areas? I think I remember reading something about how places devoted to the divine (maybe infernal, too, maybe fairyland, too) can disrupt magic. If so, I can see an interesting area of conflict for Christian, Jew, or Muslim mages who find their magic not functioning in places related to their deity, and what the implications of that are.

But I might be thinking of another game.

[LibraryOgre]

In the game, does magic sometimes not function well in sanctified areas? I think I remember reading something about how places devoted to the divine (maybe infernal, too, maybe fairyland, too) can disrupt magic. If so, I can see an interesting area of conflict for Christian, Jew, or Muslim mages who find their magic not functioning in places related to their deity, and what the implications of that are.

But I might be thinking of another game.

Yes.

Basically, there's Divine, Infernal, Faerie, and Magic areas, rated 1-10 (higher is more powerful). Divine areas suppress all other powers to a degree... if you're in a church, Magic is harder, Fae powers are a lot harder, and Infernal powers are nearly impossible. Magic and Faerie areas boost each other a bit (1/2 the rating), while Infernal areas suppress everything not Infernal, though Magic least of all.

[Yuki Akuma]

Divine Auras (or the Dominion) tend to surround any village of more than a few dozen people, at least in areas where worshiping the Divine is normal. Usually not that strong in rural areas, but in towns and cities it can affect magic pretty severely.

And don't even think about trying to cast in the Vatican City, Jerusalem or Mecca.

This is why the Hermetic Order tends to build its Covenants out in the middle of nowhere. And generally restrict the people who live their to only worshiping outside the Covenant walls, in an attempt to prevent a Divine Aura interfering with the Magic Aura the mages are utilising. This can cause friction with the Church, of course.

[LibraryOgre]

Divine Auras (or the Dominion) tend to surround any village of more than a few dozen people, at least in areas where worshiping the Divine is normal. Usually not that strong in rural areas, but in towns and cities it can affect magic pretty severely.

And don't even think about trying to cast in the Vatican City, Jerusalem or Mecca.

This is why the Hermetic Order tends to build its Covenants out in the middle of nowhere. And generally restrict the people who live their to only worshiping outside the Covenant walls, in an attempt to prevent a Divine Aura interfering with the Magic Aura the mages are utilising. This can cause friction with the Church, of course.

This is definitely worth emphasizing... 4e has the following table:

Area/Divine Aura
Rural Christian Area 1
Town 2
City 3
Consecrated Ground 3-5
Small Church 5
Large Church 6
Cathedral 8
Site of Saint's Martyrdom 10

So, pretty much, if you're within the bounds of a reasonably devout count's demense, you're dealing with a level 1 Divine aura... a penalty to all magic rolls (but that level 1 Divine might be overpowered by another aura; if you're in a level 3 Magic aura, it overrides the small divine aura that might be around... but it's VERY easy to build a decent Divine aura. If you've got a chapel where someone gives communion on a regular basis, you're looking at a divine aura of 5, which will severely impact your magi, and absolutely trash any fae powers that might be there.

[JeenLeen]

So, pretty much, if you're within the bounds of a reasonably devout count's demense, you're dealing with a level 1 Divine aura... a penalty to all magic rolls (but that level 1 Divine might be overpowered by another aura; if you're in a level 3 Magic aura, it overrides the small divine aura that might be around... but it's VERY easy to build a decent Divine aura. If you've got a chapel where someone gives communion on a regular basis, you're looking at a divine aura of 5, which will severely impact your magi, and absolutely trash any fae powers that might be there.

Does the aura ever follow a person? For example, would someone receiving a sacrament like Communion have a harder time casting magic or be more resistant to magic for some time afterwards?

Although this system seems a bit crunchier than my current tastes, I might try a look at it with some of my group.

[LibraryOgre]

Does the aura ever follow a person? For example, would someone receiving a sacrament like Communion have a harder time casting magic or be more resistant to magic for some time afterwards?

Although this system seems a bit crunchier than my current tastes, I might try a look at it with some of my group.

I quickly looked through Realms of Power: The Divine, and don't see any sign that's the case. Those with the True Faith virtue (who are more or less proto-saints) get Magic Resistance from their Faith Points. Normal people can get a faith point from undergoing a sacrament, but those don't inherently interfere with magic.

[Yuki Akuma]

People with Magic Resistance, even from a realm other than the Magic realm, don't suffer any penalties to casting magic (although they have a harder time casting on themselves unless they can turn the Magic Resistance off).

So there are Hermetic Mages out there with True Faith, and they have no trouble casting magic outside of Divine Auras. Actually, some of them can cast it just fine inside Divine Auras due to various mysteries and pacts with angels and such...

[CE DM]

After probably hours of searching, I wasn't able to find any trace of information about what players are actually supposed to be doing in an Ars Magica campaign. Which includes the 4th edition rulebook. Some people seem to think that it's best to leave your main character at home to study and do the actual adventures with the secondaries, but what are they doing then?

adventures have been mentioned, but they aren't hard to guess at anyway.

I/we (& I think the game) had it such that (as mentioned before) each player has a magus and a companion type character, plus grogs. Let's say there are 4 players

on a given adventure"
players 1 & 2 play their magi, plus some grogs
players 3 & 4 play their companions, plus some grogs
the other characters do things like study, practice, build/craft & train

then swap on the next adventure

alternatively, one does a "split party" thing where "half" do part of the adventure in one locale, while the other half adventure in a different locale at the same time in game (but subsequently in real life). This isn't standard, as one generally wants to have characters "at home", for defense & administration at the least. A split like this could very well be defending vs attackers/going on a related mission, though.

[Faily]

I quickly looked through Realms of Power: The Divine, and don't see any sign that's the case. Those with the True Faith virtue (who are more or less proto-saints) get Magic Resistance from their Faith Points. Normal people can get a faith point from undergoing a sacrament, but those don't inherently interfere with magic.


IIRC, in 5th Edition, people who carry a Relic also gain some resistance to magic. I don't know what it was like in previous editions, since we played only one or two sessions of 4E before our group switched over to 5E (which is oh so good).

[CE DM]

In the game, does magic sometimes not function well in sanctified areas? I think I remember reading something about how places devoted to the divine (maybe infernal, too, maybe fairyland, too) can disrupt magic. If so, I can see an interesting area of conflict for Christian, Jew, or Muslim mages who find their magic not functioning in places related to their deity, and what the implications of that are.

But I might be thinking of another game.

It must vary somewhat by edition, but in the editions I have every realm has an effect on every other one. The divine is really harsh on the magi. There was a splatbook containing divine-magic sorta hybrids, but they were really rare/odd/far from standard. And indeed religious magi would have issues, and yeah, that was potentially interesting.

It sounds like this was changed, going from other's posts.

Ars Magica 3e was/is mine, and I had some 2e & 4e stuff that seemed more or less to be quite similar, along the lines of the differences between B/X D&D & BECMI D&D, or AD&D & AD&D 2e (maybe only as much as AD&D & AD&D "1.5e" or AD&D 2e & AD&D 2.5e/players option).

About what one would expect...magic/spellcasting is hindered by holy, unholy or scientific places, aided by magic or fey places.

EDIT: Let's see...there is a chart on pg 308 of the 3e ARs M. Magic/spells counts a magical aura as a straight up plus (kinda obvious), subtracts in a divine aura, infernal areas or rational/reason auras, and in faerie auras they add add 1/2 the fey rating.

[LibraryOgre]

Ars Magica 3e was/is mine, and I had some 2e & 4e stuff that seemed more or less to be quite similar, along the lines of the differences between B/X D&D & BECMI D&D, or AD&D & AD&D 2e (maybe only as much as AD&D & AD&D "1.5e" or AD&D 2e & AD&D 2.5e/players option).


IIRC, that's pretty much it. 4e was very much "3e without White Wolf's mandatory grimdark and World of Darkness previews." The 4e book has the Tremere purging some vampires from its ranks, and they entirely get rid of "True Reason" as a thing.

[RazorChain]

Does the aura ever follow a person? For example, would someone receiving a sacrament like Communion have a harder time casting magic or be more resistant to magic for some time afterwards?

Although this system seems a bit crunchier than my current tastes, I might try a look at it with some of my group.

Being Christian has some benefits for example your name is protected if you are baptised and can't be used as an arcane connection. But I don't recall that receiving sacrament gives any benefit.

[JeenLeen]

Is 5th edition free?
I recall I found one PDF free (and I think legally free, though I may have been mistaken). It'd be nice to look over the updated system and see if it'd appeal to my group.

[Knaight]

Is 5th edition free?
I recall I found one PDF free (and I think legally free, though I may have been mistaken). It'd be nice to look over the updated system and see if it'd appeal to my group.

No. 4th edition is free, and it's possible that 5e has had temporary periods where certain books were free, but at present it's very much not.

[LibraryOgre]

No. 4th edition is free, and it's possible that 5e has had temporary periods where certain books were free, but at present it's very much not.

4th edition is, in fact, unambiguously free... Atlas has it on their website.

[Jama7301]

No. 4th edition is free, and it's possible that 5e has had temporary periods where certain books were free, but at present it's very much not.


4th edition is, in fact, unambiguously free... Atlas has it on their website.

Awesome. I'm going to have to check that out after work.

Thanks for the heads up!

[Faily]

If you want to check out the game and setting to get a feel for it, the free 4E is a good place to start. :)

I do recommend 5E to those who find enjoyement with Ars Magica, as I personally find that they fixed a lot of problems with 4E very well (like wearing armor in combat and other things). :smallsmile:

[Tyrrell]

I think going Pagan in Ars Magica represents, for many magi (non-Major Characters likely stayed how they were raised) a more controllable path, and a degree of accepting the consequences of it. If I choose to ally with ancient deities, who are usually Magic or Fae-aligned, then I can strike a deal with them and, theoretically, get what I want, at a cost I can negotiate.Certainly this holds for the lifetime of a character in the setting. But I've not seen much support for faerie or magic aligned characters getting a different afterlife. Twilight is an example I suppose. For the most part fifth edition steered clear of explicit "here's how the afterlife is" pronouncements because there was no benefit to making them. Fifth ed. is explicit in saying that God created the universe and that the divine realm is supreme. While some individual characters may be as you say and rely on Faerie or magic to determine the fate of their eternal soul, I have a difficult time seeing many groups of people in the setting that would come to this conclusion based on their collection of worldview and evidence (the Baltic pagans, the Shamanistic mongols, some of the Criamon, and some of the vitki rune wizards spring to mind).

[LibraryOgre]

Certainly this holds for the lifetime of a character in the setting. But I've not seen much support for faerie or magic aligned characters getting a different afterlife. Twilight is an example I suppose. For the most part fifth edition steered clear of explicit "here's how the afterlife is" pronouncements because there was no benefit to making them. Fifth ed. is explicit in saying that God created the universe and that the divine realm is supreme. While some individual characters may be as you say and rely on Faerie or magic to determine the fate of their eternal soul, I have a difficult time seeing many groups of people in the setting that would come to this conclusion based on their collection of worldview and evidence (the Baltic pagans, the Shamanistic mongols, some of the Criamon, and some of the vitki rune wizards spring to mind).

Just because that's what I negotiate for doesn't mean that's what's literally going to happen... but I negotiated a price for it that I can stand.

[Duff]

Being a troupe-style game, the idea is that your magus will link up with someone else's consortes and have adventures designed around your themes.


I'd add a few tips.

It can work quite well to have grogs also belong to specific players. In the example given, Michael the Flambeau might have a shield grog regularly played by Wendy with Peter running most of those stories. (the Meranita may have a woodsman type grog who comes along, the Jerbiton may have a page, etc

It helps a lot if at least some of the GMs are good at playing their character in the background while running a story. Especially when the story is one of the "There's a demon ripping up the Covenant" type stories which are often a bit "All hands to the pumps".

It helps a lot if at least someone is happy to keep the records. How much vis does the covenant have? What is in the library?

[Tyrrell]

It helps a lot if at least someone is happy to keep the records. How much vis does the covenant have? What is in the library?

Records are a tremendous boon,

A list of what each of the magi has done every season solves headaches about "have I already absorbed the lessons of this book?", "can Bob upgrade his lab?", and "where did all of the money go?". Also it helps with the questions of what is the history between character A and character B?

A list of what vis has what form and where it came from changes a dreary game mechanical "five pawns of Herbam vis" into the evocative golden acorn from a cursed oak tree and rose petals that grew in a cave in the dark on a flower held in the hand of a gargoyle.

Tracking what your vis is closely related to what I think is the one of genius aspects of Ars Magica; the mechanics are descriptive. So much of the magic system and the advancement system incorporates all sorts of aspects of the characters.

It is, in this way, sort of the mirror image of Hero System. Hero works to provide a sort of balance and then tells the players to add the description, Ars Magica works to incorporate description in the mechanics and doesn't worry itself overly much about balance.