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enderrocksonall
2007-08-20, 09:03 PM
Logic Ninja's Guide says that using Alter Self can get you a +6 Natural armor or flight. I am wondering what humanoid creature he is refering to with these claims, as I have looked through MM1-4 and can't find a single race that has either of those abilities.

Remember that Alter self requires 5 HD or less and must be the same type as the caster, Humanoid if we're talking core.

Edit: Please include a reference for what book you got it from.

Jacob Orlove
2007-08-20, 09:04 PM
Troglodyte (MM1) gives you +6 NA. Winged Elves (FR, I think?) give you flight.

Raum
2007-08-20, 09:18 PM
Raptorans (Races of the Wild) are another valid choice for flight. Jacob already mentioned the others.

Curmudgeon
2007-08-21, 04:43 AM
This question has been researched very thoroughly. Look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=176246).

enderrocksonall
2007-08-21, 02:59 PM
Some of the creatures mentioned in the thread that curmudgeon put up were outsiders, and I have a few outsiders that I would love to be able to alter into, but my character is human. Is there any way other than with an item, to change my type to outsider, or to increase the HD limit on Alter Self?

MeklorIlavator
2007-08-21, 06:03 PM
Some of the creatures mentioned in the thread that curmudgeon put up were outsiders, and I have a few outsiders that I would love to be able to alter into, but my character is human. Is there any way other than with an item, to change my type to outsider, or to increase the HD limit on Alter Self?

The otherworldly feat(Forgotten realms), or elemantal savant.

Dhavaer
2007-08-21, 09:09 PM
The otherworldly feat(Forgotten realms), or elemantal savant.

Elemental Savant makes you an elemental, not an outsider.

enderrocksonall
2007-08-22, 12:53 AM
FR is 3.0 ins't it? We are playing 3.5 currently. Any other ways, maybe a spell?

yango
2007-08-22, 12:55 AM
FR is 3.0 ins't it? We are playing 3.5 currently. Any other ways, maybe a spell?

FRCS is 3.0

PGtF (which has the feat) is 3.5

Reel On, Love
2007-08-22, 12:57 AM
PGtF is 3.5, yeah. There's some spells--like, say, Fiendform--that give you the Outsider type while they last, but Fiendform is level 4, so you're casting a level 4 spell and a level 2 spell to get the bonuses, not just a level 2 spell.
...Which, if you're turning into a Dwarf freaking Ancestor (a statue-like outsider) and getting +13 NA, is still pretty cheap.

Curmudgeon
2007-08-22, 02:38 AM
Is there any way other than with an item, to change my type to outsider, or to increase the HD limit on Alter Self? 20 levels of Monk will do it:
Perfect Self

At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Some prestige classes turn you into an outsider also, or into other types that could also be useful for Alter Self. For instance the Green Star Adept PrC turns you into a construct at 10th level. See the Complete Arcane excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a).

There's no way around the HD limit of Alter Self.

Ramza00
2007-08-22, 02:58 AM
Zceryll a 6th lvl vestige gives you the psuedonatural template which makes you an outsider. Works great for anima mage.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718

yango
2007-08-22, 09:15 AM
PGtF is 3.5, yeah. There's some spells--like, say, Fiendform--that give you the Outsider type while they last, but Fiendform is level 4, so you're casting a level 4 spell and a level 2 spell to get the bonuses, not just a level 2 spell.
By that time though, if you have 4th level spells, you'll probably want to use outsider form with Polymorph.

MrNexx
2007-08-22, 12:16 PM
Of course, aasimar and tieflings are Outsiders.

Gralamin
2007-08-22, 12:30 PM
20 levels of Monk will do it: Some prestige classes turn you into an outsider also, or into other types that could also be useful for Alter Self. For instance the Green Star Adept PrC turns you into a construct at 10th level. See the Complete Arcane excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a).

There's no way around the HD limit of Alter Self.

Note that a Monks Perfect Self doesn't make you an outsider. It treats you as an outsider for the purposes of spells and effects.

TSGames
2007-08-22, 01:34 PM
Of course, aasimar and tieflings are Outsiders.

Along those lines, a warforged with alter self is quite fun. Optimus Prime, anyone?

enderrocksonall
2007-08-22, 02:33 PM
Along those lines, a warforged with alter self is quite fun. Optimus Prime, anyone?

ROFL!!!!

Thanks guys, this is a lot of help.