Complete Newb: First Character Advice

[Lazy Archer]

Hi Folks, first time poster and soon to be first time D&D player. I've been reading bits and pieces of lore since playing NWN and Baldur's Gate back in the day, also been watching streams on and off for a few years of tabletop groups but I've never played a game and only have a basic grasp on the rules.

After about a decade of wanting to play (Groups are extremely rare in my country and all far away from my town) a few friends of mine have decided to give it a shot. We'll all be completely new, including the DM, so I was looking for some advice.

Being a big archery geek I was hoping to make a longbow archer character but I'm unsure what the best class for that would be? My assumption had been Ranger but having read up on it this seems like it might not be as good as Fighter? I have the PHB and have ordered SCAG & XGtE, I had initially hoped to use Arcane Archer (due to fond memories from NWN mostly and the idea seemed cool) but it seems to have been poorly received?

So the long and short it doesn't need to be the most optimised character ever (I'm far more into roleplaying than mechanics in any sort of RP experience I've had)) but I was hoping for some tips or advice for building such a character.


Also if this is in the wrong place please let me know and I'll delete away!

[Ixidor92]

So as this is your first d&d adventure, I wouldn't worry too much about optimization. It's more important that everyone enjoys playing their characters and are having fun than being mechanically the strongest. So for your archer, rather than asking "Which is better?" Ask yourself, "Which fantasy sounds more appealing?" The ranger is something of a hunter character, skilled at tracking down particular enemies. So if you would rather play a character that has the ability to hunt down opponents across large areas, and also has some stealthier options, play a ranger. The fighter is the more straightforward warrior, and will likely have less options in combat (depends on which archetype you pick) but will be more focused on using the bow to the peak of its ability. So if you just want the master archery fantasy, play a fighter.

My suggestion would be to look through the two classes, and decide which one sounds more fun for you to play, rather than worrying about the exact strength of everything. It's your first time, so just imagine a character you would like to play and have fun with them :3

[Specter]

If this is your first character, I'd recommend Fighter (Champion or Battlemaster) for the simplicity. Take the Archery fighting style and eventually Sharpshooter and you'll be fine.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I was hoping to make a longbow archer character but I'm unsure what the best class for that would be? My assumption had been Ranger but having read up on it this seems like it might not be as good as Fighter?

Just to take on the main question in here (I'm sure you can find tons of generic advice for new players/DMs in other threads), you can make perfectly good archers with either class.

The ranger is definitely the archetypal archer character, since it's hard to build any other kind of ranger with the PHB options. Abilities like Horde Breaker, Volley, hunter's mark, swift quiver, lightning arrow, conjure barrage, ensnaring strike, the archery fighting style etc. mean that the ranger is extremely good with a bow or crossbow. The Sharpshooter feat is a good pick for this build, and Crossbow Expert if you were using a crossbow.

Of course, a high level fighter gets more attacks (with any weapon) and can also access those feats (indeed, the fighter gets more feats than other classes) and the archery fighting style. The battlemaster archetype would be a good way of representing 'trick' shots. In the long run, the fighter will produce more at-will damage than the ranger, but the ranger has a wider range of backup abilities (and spells, obviously).

[Lazy Archer]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate your responses to my derpy question :)

I'm thinking Fighter would suit best, the idea is of him being more of a military archer than a hunter, probably either formerly a member of an Elven Military force or a Mercenary (although I'm sure Rangers would work for that too as representing a sort of Scout).

Anyway thanks again folks! :)

[Nidgit]

Any Ranger, most classes of Rogue, and 2-3 classes of Fighter make good archers:

Rangers: the most magic, some great unique spells, and solid out of battle utility. Season to taste.

Rogues: usually relies on crossbows for max damage, fantastic utility, one very strong shot per turn (2 chances at it with crossbow master or multiclassing). Lots of options but few that especially stand out for archers

Fighters: Battle Master and Arcane Archer are the two go-to archer subclasses. Both have the potential for the most attacks but lack the utility of the two aforementioned classes. Battle Master has great battlefield control and can mix it up in melee just as easily, while Arcane Archer has more powerful effects that are in limited supply. Other subclasses like Champion and Eldritch Knight can work but are generally less played as archers.

[opaopajr]

Remember, Weapon Proficiency merely adds your Proficiency Bonus to your weapon usage. So any class with a DEX 14+ can be an "archer," since WP merely adds PB (which is +2 for levels 1 through 4,).

Weapon Proficiency
[...]
Proficiency with a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with that weapon. If you make an attack roll using a weapon with which you lack proficiency, you do not add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll.

(D&D 5e Basic. August 2014. p.45.)

e.g.
A DEX 16 Wizard lvls 1-4 with a long bow is:
+3 atk, 1d8+3 dmg.

And a DEX 16 Fighter lvls 1-4 with a long bow is:
+5 atk, 1d8+3 dmg.

Point being is the strength of martial classes is their proficient versatility with martial options as the need arises.

So playing it as a one-note will likely feel frustrating, until you play up your other class widgets, play up your martial versatility, or both.

Basically I am asking you to consider greater depth to your character. Flesh it out, explore what else you want to do besides using a single weapon. Then you can look at the other classes with greater clarity to reinforce what more you want from the archery experience.

I hope that helps you dream more broadly and then crystalize your goals.

[Tboy1492]

I am slightly biast in favor of rangers, because utility magic :-) plus I believe one of the archetypes lets you make a range attack against groups (basically a volley fire by yourself), I’d quote it or tell you where in the book but I haven’t access to them at the moment.

I do think fighters can trump a ranger if built right, but as suggested before I would pick based on fantasy preference as opposed to optimization. Both classes are awesome in their own right and balanced, and both classes make good archers.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I believe one of the archetypes lets you make a range attack against groups (basically a volley fire by yourself)

Yeah, it's in the Hunter archetype. The ability is called Volley. :smalltongue:

[DKing9114]

One snag that archers can run into is not being able to use the full extent of their range because the DM needs to limit the size of a battlefield to something he can effectively manage. Taking Sharpshooter to fire accurately at 600 feet/180 meters (yes, I know the other parts of that feat are still fantastic) doesn't have much impact if the battle doesn't entail distances of more than 100 feet. To that end, try to be proactive when it comes to sniping, and be sure to communicate any frustrations you have to the DM in private.

Beyond that, if you're sold on playing a Fighter, remember that Short Rests are a thing, and most of your class abilities "recharge" after a short or long rest (especially as either a Battlemaster or an Arcane Archer).

[GlenSmash!]

Ranger at low levels is all about maximizing your Hunter's Mark. Start combats with it

and switch when your target goes down. Fighter on the other hand is all about attacks. Attack as much as possible, Action surge when you need more attacks.

I've played both an Archery focused Hunter ranger, and an Archery focused Fighter. While both were very fun, I absolutely recommend the Fighter for a newb.

Welcome to the hobby. I hope you have great fun.

[Chugger]

A human variant archer w/ the Sharpshooter feat going fighter/Battlemaster is hard to beat in terms of damage output. I think it's far better than arcane archer, which sadly is broken.

You basically do a point buy where you have 16 dex and 16 con. You can wear studded leather and get a background like criminal or urchin that allows you to stealth. Your AC is only 15 this way, so if you want to use chain you can do str 13 (to not lose movement wearing heavy armor) - but you'd only have ac 16. So I'd just go w/ stud leather and high dx and ac 15 to start (you may start at ac 14 until you can afford studded leather).

You take the archery or w/e it's called Fighting Style, so +2 to hit with missile attacks. With Sharpshooter you can take -5 to hit on a shot if you want, and get +10 to damage. So if fighting something with ac 15 or so or higher, I wouldn't use SS - you'd miss too much.

But zombies have ac 8. And are common at low lvls. Beasts have ac 10 to ac 12 usually. Ogres have very low ac. This means you can take the -5 and hit enough to overall be doing lots of extra damage w/ that +10. You have 16 dx so that's +3 w/ prof of +2 that's +5, and +7 with the FS. So you drop to +2 to hit when you use SS, but you don't have to use that feature of SS.

Okay, SS also lets you ignore medium or 3/4 cover, which is very nice. If 3 of your friends "block your view" of a target giving it 3/4 cover, no prob - you shoot it anyway and it gets no ac bonus. Because you have SS.

Now at lvl 3 you go BM. The main feature is Precision which 4 times per short rest lets you add + 1d8 to any shot, after you see the dice. Let's say you Action Surge and take two shots at an ac 12 monster. Your first roll is a 14 and with +2 to hit (you're doing the -5 thing) you hit. But your second roll is only a 8. With +2 that's a 10. Odds are you can roll a 2 or higher on a d8, so you use Precision and probably hit. Now your average damage for one round is 2d8 (for two arrows) or 9 plus 6 from dex bonus (three twice) plus TWENTY from two SS bonus hits for 35 damage!

At lvl 4 you boost dex to 18. At lvl 5 you get an extra attack. You'll have a problem in that DM will have monsters dash up and get in your face, making it harder for you to get off shots w/out disad - or you have to move and take an attack of opportunity. And with your high con you can just eat those. With SS you also can shoot with no disad at very very long range, so you can get way way back if fighting in a field, say.

You'll be tempted to go rogue - which you should do - to be able to move freely on the battlefield, but don't do it yet. Stay fighter til lvl 6, so Dex goes to 20.

Now you have +5 to hit from dex (+7 with FS and with new proficiency you overall have +10 to hit) and +5 to ac, meaning ac 17. You have +5 to damage from dex, or +15 with SS.

Now you can do rogue - or ranger if you have 13 wis. As a multiclass. Or stay fighter 8 and get another feat like crossbow mastery. Or luck which is amazing. Other archer types, like various Ranger builds, are strong, too. But this one is a contender.

(rogue lets you use a bonus action to freely move away from creatures that are in your face, and they don't get a free reaction attack on you - because you can disengage as a bonus action and move - rogue also lets you add a d6 sneak attack die on shots where you qualify - more if you go up in rogue - an extra d6 every 2 rogue levels) - plus many defensive abilities - plus expertise on some skill checks)

(edit - if I wasn't clear the whole point to this build is to mitigate the -5 penalty of the SS feat when opting to take the +10 damage thing on a shot. If you can take various steps to hit more often while opting for the -5 penalty, that +10 damage will really result in large extra damage and can turn fights. People who go SS without taking steps to deal with the penalty overall do more damage as long as the target's ac is low enough - by taking steps you can go after higher ac targets w/ the penalty and be effective - the algorithm to calc which ac to take or not take the penalty on can be found on other threads here - I think it's getting too complex for this one but you at some point may want to look it up - it helps us know how to use feats like SS (and Great weapon master).

[MagneticKitty]

Technically you can take elf (comes with longbow ability) plus any dex class and have a good time. So if you also want to not wear armor and do hand to hand a monk. Or if you want to cast magic on the side a Eldritch knight is fun. Or arcane trickster.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

First piece of advice: Talk to your DM about which optional rules he's using before worrying about builds. If feats are included, Fighters gain quite a bit since they get more feats than anyone else.

Battlemaster Archers with the Archery fighting style and the Sharpshooter feat are very dangerous. Especially with the Precision Attack ability but theoretically your DM doesn't have to use feats, in which case Ranger might be better.

Remember that, by default you have disadvantage on ranged attacks if a hostile enemy is within five feet of you. So, either take the crossbow expert feat (it has a couple crossbow only bonuses but it also eliminates this penalty with all ranged attacks) or always back up before firing. The latter may give enemies a free swing at you, though.

[Unoriginal]

Remember, Weapon Proficiency merely adds your Proficiency Bonus to your weapon usage. So any class with a DEX 14+ can be an "archer," since WP merely adds PB (which is +2 for levels 1 through 4,).

Weapon Proficiency
[...]
Proficiency with a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with that weapon. If you make an attack roll using a weapon with which you lack proficiency, you do not add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll.

(D&D 5e Basic. August 2014. p.45.)

e.g.
A DEX 16 Wizard lvls 1-4 with a long bow is:
+3 atk, 1d8+3 dmg.

And a DEX 16 Fighter lvls 1-4 with a long bow is:
+5 atk, 1d8+3 dmg.

Point being is the strength of martial classes is their proficient versatility with martial options as the need arises.

So playing it as a one-note will likely feel frustrating, until you play up your other class widgets, play up your martial versatility, or both.

Basically I am asking you to consider greater depth to your character. Flesh it out, explore what else you want to do besides using a single weapon. Then you can look at the other classes with greater clarity to reinforce what more you want from the archery experience.

I hope that helps you dream more broadly and then crystalize your goals.

It should be noted that 2 points of difference at your to-hit bonus make a big difference.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It should be noted that 2 points of difference at your to-hit bonus make a big difference.

And that's not even accounting for the archery fighting style. Really, an archer fighter or ranger has an edge of +4 over a (non-elf) wizard with a longbow. Maybe more, if they've prioritised Dex and the wizard hasn't.

Based on what the OP has said, I would think one of those two classes is the way to go, rather than slapping a bow onto another class as an afterthought (roguish multiclasses aside).

[Aett_Thorn]

I would say that the OP should start off as a Fighter for the simplicity. As they progress (so after at least level 5), maybe multiclass into a Scout Rogue from Xanathar's guide. That way, you can keep the military feel of the character, while still gaining in some utility.

[opaopajr]

A big part of the martial classes is knowing your basic moves well and improvising as necessary. That requires out-of-the-box thinking to get the most out of the experience. If all we provide is a build package with the sticker "It's the Best!" how have we actually helped?

If the class is so build optimize so as to run itself, it won't be fun. Thankfully that's not a major problem for 5e. But it comes with an old skool paradigm that rewards self-motivated exploration. Without engagement and outside-the-box thinking (of both the system and setting,) you are setting up an experience shy of what a tabletop RPG can do vs. a video game.

It's better to teach one to fish than to provide just a fish.

[YugiSyta]

Don't know if you've already made you character, but to everyone who says to go fighter for simplicity sake, I'd say don't listen to them. Not because they are necessarily wrong, but because if you go fighter you might just stay that way for years to come. I have a friend who for the first three years of his D&D career chose only fighter and ranger and he didn't even use his ranger spells at all because he thought anything with magic was to difficult. More recently his favorite two classes have become warmage (3.5) and warlock (5e). Choose whatever make the most sense for your character. If you want to go military I'd say ranger could make a lot of sense, especially an arcane archer (for your magical elf soldiers) or for Hunter (who despite being called Hunter is all about combat straight up).

Either way go archery fighting style and honestly for your first game don't worry about multiclassing unless you feel like you want to and if you think it makes sense for your character. If you truly want to throw optimization out the window though, you could go Paladin too, they have some fun stuff, most of it doesn't exactly work for archery, but it could be fun. Just a crazy idea, and not something I would actually suggest unless it sounds like fun to you. Either way, just have fun with it dude and my biggest piece of advice is to have fun, don't take everything too seriously and be ready for any character to die at any time. For serious, best advice, I've had players quit because of a character death, just be ready for it.

[Ninja_Prawn]

how have we actually helped?

Eh, I think most of us make the assumption that it's up to the player to play the game. Different people enjoy different things anyway - if someone enjoys shooting goblins with a bow all day long, who are we to tell them they're doing it wrong? If someone enjoys coming up with new and creative solutions to problems, I doubt they need us to tell them that.

And I think, if the OP went away and said, "okay, I'm gonna play a variant human battlemaster fighter with Sharpshooter," the next thing they'd do is read the relevant parts of the book again, more closely. When they do that, it should become fairly obvious that they have a range of options that will make their life more interesting. They'll see the equipment chapter, which is full of roleplaying prompts. They'll pick a background, which is designed to clobber them around the head with outside-the-box options. In my experience, people don't need to be told those things, whereas having the community say "yeah, you can be an effective archer without picking the ranger class" (something the OP had intuited but wasn't sure about) gives them confidence to go on and explore further.

[PopeLinus1]

Whatever you do, make sure it’s fun, and that the rest of the party can Injoy it. I would recomend reading through some classes first. Also, Elves automatically can use longbows, something to keep in mind if you play a class that does not give that proficiency.

If your trying to play a sniper, rogue, if hunter, ranger, and if simply a straight up archer, than. fighter is the best. Don’t forget to keep your Dex up, and take any feats you need.

[opaopajr]

Eh, I think most of us make the assumption that it's up to the player to play the game. Different people enjoy different things anyway - if someone enjoys shooting goblins with a bow all day long, who are we to tell them they're doing it wrong? If someone enjoys coming up with new and creative solutions to problems, I doubt they need us to tell them that.

And I think, if the OP went away and said, "okay, I'm gonna play a variant human battlemaster fighter with Sharpshooter," the next thing they'd do is read the relevant parts of the book again, more closely. When they do that, it should become fairly obvious that they have a range of options that will make their life more interesting. They'll see the equipment chapter, which is full of roleplaying prompts. They'll pick a background, which is designed to clobber them around the head with outside-the-box options. In my experience, people don't need to be told those things, whereas having the community say "yeah, you can be an effective archer without picking the ranger class" (something the OP had intuited but wasn't sure about) gives them confidence to go on and explore further.

It may be up to the player to play the game, but with such anticipation yet lack of experience it's good to tease them out from tunnel vision thinking. You'll need that imaginitive lateral thinking. And better to practice in chargen than fumble in frustration during play.

Table top RPGs ask more from the player than push-button functionality, and martial classes moreso than most. That's part of their fun. Reading about power widgets is only the barest threshold. Knowing your basic moves/gear thoroughly, and actively engaging in improvisation (like Improvised Action,) helps the human experience stand out from a computer server experience.

[Lazy Archer]

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the responses! It's given me a lot to think about. :smallsmile:

It's still very early days for me, our Campaign won't be starting til the end of January at the earliest and I'll keep reading around until then! (My copies of SCAG & XGtE haven't even arrived yet!)

I'll be sitting down with my buddy who's going to be trying to DM for the first time at some point to discuss the campaign anyway, perhaps offer to do a small session with just 2 players to help him get used to bits and pieces.

Thank you again everyone! I'll wrap my head around this stuff eventually :smalltongue:

[supremerulerguy]

I would recommend Battle Master Fighter, it seems fun. Keep us updated on how the campaign goes once it starts, I like seeing beginner campaigns unfold