"Evil" Oath of Vengence Paladin/hexblade

[trctelles]

Hello and good evenying people! I know there are plenty of topics about Paladins/Warlock multiclasses, but I wanted you guys to help me out with the pros and cons of doing so.

I'm planing on going Paladin 2 and then Hexblade 2, and then the rest on paladin. I'm want to do like this for the following reasons:

At lvl 4 I'll still be on par with the other party members damage
It won't affect me much AT 4TH LVL
I'll get SAD quite soon, so I can just put 15 STR for plate and be done with it
I'll get EB + Booming Blade (Or Green Flame, not sure quite yet which one yet... Help? :smallbiggrin: )
At 5th level, on the other martials start getting Extra Attack, I can EB and do the same damage when I run out of spell slots for smite

Those are the PROS I see on going on like this...

The CONS
Delayed aura
Delayed Extra Attack
Lose 1 ASI
Delayed Oath, and no Oath of Vengence capstone...

I'll be going Fallen Aasimar, for flavor and for the stats, which are great.

We haven't started playing yet, and will be rolling for stats, so not sure how they'll look at lvl 1
The idea is going 15 STR for plate, 14 CON, 20 CHA and prioritize DEX>WIS>INT

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'll be using a Longsword and Shield. But depending on the rolls, I can do a more feat heavy build with PAM

I need help on the spells to take on which lvl, and if my idea is worth it, or should I at least grab the oath at lvl 3 before multiclassing?

[Finlam]

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'll be using a Longsword and Shield. But depending on the rolls, I can do a more feat heavy build with PAM

I need help on the spells to take on which lvl, and if my idea is worth it, or should I at least grab the oath at lvl 3 before multiclassing?

I'll go off of my experience playing an Oathbreaker X/Hexblade 1/Shadow Soc 1: my goal was to build a very solid tank that was completely SAD and had enough oomph to hold aggro (as well as provide some support). Took protection style because protection + 6th level aura is really good at keeping other front-liners and strikers alive.

Currently playing it at level 7 (so 5 level of paladin) and it's working great. I think it's pretty similar to your build.

I found that I wanted Hexblade ASAP, so I took it as my second level. The boost of the short-rest spell slot, adding shield to my spell list, making my attacks SAD, and getting Hexblade's curse were all worth the one level delay of paladin features: this goes double if you can pick up the Booming Blade or Green flame blade cantrips. With those two cantrips you won't do quite as much damage as with two attacks, but the difference in damage isn't that great so you won't notice it for the one extra level that you're waiting for another attack.

I also took eldritch blase as a cantrip so that I have some kind of ranged option (it's still decent even without the Agonizing Blast Invocation) and I picked Expeditious Retreat, which has been a fantastic spell because it a) uses a bonus action which I have little other use for b) allows me to close into melee with archers and ranged characters quickly.

If you're into support, you have Bless which is just an all-around good spell on the paladin's list. I don't really use any level 2 Paladin spells unless I have extra slots or there is a very good reason for it; in general, it's better to save those for smites or, if you've got the slots leftover, for upcasting heals post-combat.

There is one thing I regret though, and only one thing. Delaying that level 6 aura hurts. It hurts every time I fail a save by less than 5 which in some session can feel like its happening all the time. Despite that, I use the options that I got from the warlock almost every single combat and they are always good uses of my actions: it was worth the trade, even if it's a bit painful.


...
But it looks like you're going for warlock 2 pretty early (I'm holding off till at least paladin 9 for those juicy 3rd level spells before I take my second level of warlock). What invocations are you looking at? Are you going with Agonizing Blast and Devil's site?

Also, you mentioned damage: is your character filling more of heavy-hitting damage role and/or are you going to be the main tank?

[Asmotherion]

I wouldn't really invest more than 6-7 levels in paladin. Arguably 8 for a Feat, but that's really the Capstone of a Hexblade Warlock/Paladin Build.

I'm curently Playing something similar, and it's very strong. I'm also partially a Dragon Sorcerer and a Follower of Bahamut, and the Hexblade part is a Dragonic Artifact...

There are many possible builds to consider, but after Aura of Protection, what Paladin has to offer is somewhat Lackluster compared to what you'd gain from continuing as a Warlock or Sorcerer for example. Perhaps even Bard, if you can somehow fit it in your character concept, or Swashbuckler Rogue for faster expertese in your charisma skills and making them even harder to resist?. Make the most of your SADness in Charisma is the best way to play your character (per my taste at least), wile at the same time enhancing the few things your Charisma does not cover.

Well, that's how I see it, at least optimisation wise. I'm sure most people won't agree, but hey, that's my oppinion.

[trctelles]

Also, you mentioned damage: is your character filling more of heavy-hitting damage role and/or are you going to be the main tank?

Well, the party have all melee characters. Me as a Paladin, a Barbarian/Fighter and a Bladesinger Wizard, and possibly a Rogue (We have this friend that ALWAYS makes a rogue, he haven't said yet what he'll make, but I'm guessing rogue again).

The wizard said he'll play like Gandalf in the LOTR movies: mostly using sword and casting a spell here and there, so I think we'll lack a bit on ranged damage, so I want to get AB and Devil Sight, even thought Devil Sight won't do much for me early on, since I'll only get to use Darkness with a Paladin Spell slot at lvl 5 (7 in total if I go hexblade 2 early on)

I think I'm more of a bruiser (it's a League of Legends term). Tanky, but not full tank, and able to do damage.

[trctelles]

I wouldn't really invest more than 6-7 levels in paladin. Arguably 8 for a Feat, but that's really the Capstone of a Hexblade Warlock/Paladin Build.

I'm curently Playing something similar, and it's very strong. I'm also partially a Dragon Sorcerer and a Follower of Bahamut, and the Hexblade part is a Dragonic Artifact...

There are many possible builds to consider, but after Aura of Protection, what Paladin has to offer is somewhat Lackluster compared to what you'd gain from continuing as a Warlock or Sorcerer for example. Perhaps even Bard, if you can somehow fit it in your character concept, or Swashbuckler Rogue for faster expertese in your charisma skills and making them even harder to resist?. Make the most of your SADness in Charisma is the best way to play your character (per my taste at least), wile at the same time enhancing the few things your Charisma does not cover.

Well, that's how I see it, at least optimisation wise. I'm sure most people won't agree, but hey, that's my oppinion.

The idea of going more Warlock oriented is cool, and fits my character... I REALLY HATE rolling for stats, but most of my group prefer it over Point Buy, so we all gotta do it (Yeah, I'm aware that it's not that big of a deal, but it really does piss me off :smallfurious:) and depending on how I roll, I'll go more for one side than the other (I want to have at least 15 STR and 16 CHA at lvl 1, and a decent CON)

Depending on how my DM will manage short rests, going 12 Warlock/8 Paladin or 12 Paladin/ 8 Warlock (For Improved smite maybe?)

[Asmotherion]

The idea of going more Warlock oriented is cool, and fits my character... I REALLY HATE rolling for stats, but most of my group prefer it over Point Buy, so we all gotta do it (Yeah, I'm aware that it's not that big of a deal, but it really does piss me off :smallfurious:) and depending on how I roll, I'll go more for one side than the other (I want to have at least 15 STR and 16 CHA at lvl 1, and a decent CON)

Depending on how my DM will manage short rests, going 12 Warlock/8 Paladin or 12 Paladin/ 8 Warlock (For Improved smite maybe?)

Well, you can always grab the Invocation that adds your Cha as necrotic damage to your Pact Weapon... the Average is similar really, and by the level you'll have access to it, your Cha will be 20 or more.

As a Race, I suggest either Tiefling or Half Elf. Both give +2 Cha. Then, you have some good and thematic choices on both races for a Champion of Evil, either as a Winged Tiefling, or a Half Drow Elf. Vanilla works too, I'm just suggesting lore pieces here. With a single half decent roll, you can start the game with a 18, 19 or hopefully even a 20 in Charisma, and from there, other than Constitution and a +2 Dex that's all that really matters to your build, mechanics wise. All the rest will be irelevent to Combat, and only there for Role Play.

Agonising Blast, Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite Are the most important invocations. Then, you can take some more as you like them. Take note that you can Eldritch Smite and Divine Smite on the Same action, as long as you can affort the spell slot cost, so you might want to invest some levels in Sorcerer, so you can profit from full caster progression and having more spell slots.

[trctelles]

As a Race, I suggest either Tiefling or Half Elf. Both give +2 Cha.

I'll go for Fallen Aasimar from Volo for race. It gives the same +2 CHA and some other GREAT stuff. Also +1 STR to get the 15 STR to wear plate armor.

I don't want to go for Sorcerer, because I don't think it fits my character. I'm still wrapping my head around going for PadLock, so going 3 way multiclass is too much for me.

I'll grab AB for SURE. Does the Eldritch Smite ALWAYS knock the enemy prone? It looks like it on the descrption.:smalleek:

[Finlam]

I'll grab AB for SURE. Does the Eldritch Smite ALWAYS knock the enemy prone? It looks like it on the descrption.:smalleek:

That's the way I read it.

If you're going mostly warlock I'd alternate between paladin and warlock levels until you're ready to go straight warlock. Stacking smites sounds awesome.

[Oramac]

I'm planing on going Paladin 2 and then Hexblade 2, and then the rest on paladin. I'm want to do like this for the following reasons:

I'll get SAD quite soon

If you're using Sword n Board, why even go 2 levels of warlock? One level makes you SAD, and all you get for 2nd level is Invocations. Doesn't seem like that good a trade to me. /shrug

Of course, I prefer to play a Two-Handed greatsword wielding Paladin, so I'd end up going 4 levels into hexblade. To each his own.

[Asmotherion]

I'll go for Fallen Aasimar from Volo for race. It gives the same +2 CHA and some other GREAT stuff. Also +1 STR to get the 15 STR to wear plate armor.

I don't want to go for Sorcerer, because I don't think it fits my character. I'm still wrapping my head around going for PadLock, so going 3 way multiclass is too much for me.

I'll grab AB for SURE. Does the Eldritch Smite ALWAYS knock the enemy prone? It looks like it on the descrption.:smalleek:

Raw it does. Unless the Dm wants to do something differant about it.

The visual is also great; I imagin it as a strike of Vibrating Purple Light (Eldritch+Divine Smite) striking your foe, and as it contacts, the blow of pure force knocks the foe prone.

Agonising Blast gives you full benefits of an Eldritch Blaster Warlock with minimal investment (1 Invocation). And why not take it, as you can swich any time to ranged, and be awesome at it? You will eventually run out of Smites/spell slots, and changing your Pact Weapon into a Ranged weapon takes an Action, wile during the same action you can cast EB.