The Ultimate Explorer

[tadkins]

I'm envisioning a character who simply lives to see as much as they can throughout their life. They would be good at getting to and surviving in just about any terrain, material plane and beyond. They would be able to keep themselves out of danger for the most part, but be able to defend themselves when necessary. To walk across the face of creation and enjoy its great majesty.

How would you build such a character?

I am guessing it would involve the Ranger class a bit. Not entirely, since rangers can't really get themselves to other worlds and planes on their own, but likely a dip for their skills/survivalist themes.

Beyond that, I was thinking about two options.

1. Cleric w/Travel domain.
2. Wizard or sorcerer build that combines well with a ranger dip (i.e. Arcane Archer?)

In your opinion, what are your thoughts on such a concept? Would the above ideas work? Otherwise, how would you approach making such a character?

[Mechalich]

Isn't the answer basically just Druid, straight up?

Oh and you want to be a race with minimal metabolic requirements and vulnerabilities. Wyrwood is a good choice, since they're constructs (charisma penalty hurts though).

[tadkins]

Isn't the answer basically just Druid, straight up?



The one weakness with druids is that they don't get stuff like Plane Shift. Otherwise it'd be perfect.

Edit: Unless there's a potential way to get something like that as a druid that I don't know about. xD

[Slithery D]

A Warp discipline Psychic who takes Fey Obedience and worships Ng.

[SpamCreateWater]

Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid are obvious choices for their power, but the first three don't necessarily meet the ideal "flavour" requirements. Bloodlines and Domains can help alleviate that, somewhat.

I do believe in 3.5 there are ways for the Druid to get teleportation/planar-portation spells; I'm unsure on Pathfinder's ability to do such a thing. Eggynack's Druid guide to being everything (I think it's called something like that) would be a good stop, even though, from memory, it's primarily based in 3.5.

Other than that perhaps there is some way to talk with your DM about, eventually, getting the ability/item to Plane Shift? You can stay Ranger or some other class that doesn't get the spell naturally, but gets its from their exposure/interest in the planes via diety/powerful being intervention - or from an item, but have it fluffed as being changed by the energy flow of different planes you've been exposed to.

[tadkins]

Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid are obvious choices for their power, but the first three don't necessarily meet the ideal "flavour" requirements. Bloodlines and Domains can help alleviate that, somewhat.


I figured, as far as the wizard and sorcerer goes, they can go with an Arcane Archer, which has access to the stealth and survival skills. Using that with a Ranger level or two, I figured would be enough to give the character that sense of "ruggedness".

With the Cleric route, I figured being a follower of Desna with the Travel and Liberation domains would be pretty suitable, though getting certain skills like stealth and survival on that would be a challenge.

[Mechalich]

The one weakness with druids is that they don't get stuff like Plane Shift. Otherwise it'd be perfect.

Edit: Unless there's a potential way to get something like that as a druid that I don't know about. xD

Is there a way to add genies to summon nature's ally lists in PF? That gets you partial plane shift (elemental and astral anyway).

[Boggartbae]

I would go with a Cloistered Cleric with the Travel Domain. You could protect yourself from any environment/malign planar denizen, and you can travel around. Plus, you would be sort of geeky since you're a cloistered cleric, so you the flavour would give you a reason to carry around a bunch of journals that you could use to draw/write about what you discover. Also more skill points for survival and knowledge skills, and more HP for survivability, plus wind walk to get around once you get there.

Plus, the wisdom synergy makes for good mixing with ranger, although I'm not sure how to tie that in.

[SpamCreateWater]

I figured, as far as the wizard and sorcerer goes, they can go with an Arcane Archer, which has access to the stealth and survival skills. Using that with a Ranger level or two, I figured would be enough to give the character that sense of "ruggedness".

With the Cleric route, I figured being a follower of Desna with the Travel and Liberation domains would be pretty suitable, though getting certain skills like stealth and survival on that would be a challenge.

Stealth and Survival as class skills:

Do you use traits?
I believe that there are some people who run the houserule of "Skill Focus (or the +2/+2 feats) makes it a class skill too".
You could take a 1 level dip into a class that has both of them as class skills.
Bard VMC for Versatile Performance if your class has Performance as a class skill. Dubious choice if that is the only reason you've chosen Bard VMC.
Certain races make skills "class" skills.


You could always bat your eyelashes and ask your DM if Transport Via Plants is plane restricted. I don't think it has a range in 3.5 or Pathfinder, nor does it mention having to be on the same plane like other scry/teleport type spells do.

All this being said, a class like Arcane Archer is fine if it fits in with your (and your tables) expectations. I'm in a campaign with another person who is going Wizard 5 (Teleportation School with the Shift ability) / Ranger 1 / Eldritch Knight 3 / Arcane Archer. The Shift ability, along with eventually taking the Dimensional Agility feat shows his growing mastery over teleportation. This is only a step away from planeshifting, really, so it will work well if he goes down a similar path as you.

[Baroncognito]

There's a PRC for that. Horizon Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/advanced-players-guide/horizon-walker/).

[Florian]

Fetchlings get Plane Shift as SLA, the Fey Creature template gets woodland stride and camouflage.
So maybe a Rage Prophet / Horizon Walker build?

[Baroncognito]

Not the most useful build, but in terms of flavor: Investigator (Cartographer, Natural Philosopher) to Horizon Walker.

[tadkins]

There's a PRC for that. Horizon Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/advanced-players-guide/horizon-walker/).


Not the most useful build, but in terms of flavor: Investigator (Cartographer, Natural Philosopher) to Horizon Walker.

Problem with that PrC and the Investigator is that they wouldn't have the casting needed to get to other planes and other worlds.

[Baroncognito]

But they would have the skill points to get Use Magic Item.

[tadkins]

But they would have the skill points to get Use Magic Item.

Are there even reliable magic items that would allow that sort of thing possible though?

[Baroncognito]

Well, Amulet of the Planes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-the-planes/) is rather expensive (120,000 gold) but it seems to be Plane Shift at will if you make a DC 15 intelligence check.

Obsidian Steed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/obsidian-steed-figurine-of-wondrous-power/) is only 28,500 gold, but it can only be used for twenty-four hours once a week and has a 10% chance of bringing you to a lower plane and turning back into a statue if you're good. But it does seem like it can plane shift once per round as long as it isn't a statue.

And then there's just a simple "Wand of Plane Shift" it would cost 21,000 gold.

I think the Obsidian Steed would be the most fun. "Okay, I've now got 7 days to survive in this plane. Let's see what I can find. Oh, look at that Imp. Isn't it a beauty? These horns are used for mating displays, it is lacking a gore attack."

There's also a staff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/staves/spherewalker-s-staff/) but you'd need 4th level spells to be able to refill charges.

[tadkins]

Well, Amulet of the Planes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-the-planes/) is rather expensive (120,000 gold) but it seems to be Plane Shift at will if you make a DC 15 intelligence check.

Obsidian Steed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/obsidian-steed-figurine-of-wondrous-power/) is only 28,500 gold, but it can only be used for twenty-four hours once a week and has a 10% chance of bringing you to a lower plane and turning back into a statue if you're good. But it does seem like it can plane shift once per round as long as it isn't a statue.

And then there's just a simple "Wand of Plane Shift" it would cost 21,000 gold.

I think the Obsidian Steed would be the most fun. "Okay, I've now got 7 days to survive in this plane. Let's see what I can find. Oh, look at that Imp. Isn't it a beauty? These horns are used for mating displays, it is lacking a gore attack."

There's also a staff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/staves/spherewalker-s-staff/) but you'd need 4th level spells to be able to refill charges.

Hmm, interesting! That does open up some potential options.

At the same time though I am still leaning toward playing something with those 9th level spells. For this character I was envisioning having a personal sanctuary to visit between exploration trips. A personal demiplane that serves as a repository for gathered information and lore, a vault for treasures that they've acquired during their travels, and a nice relaxing home to just kick their feet up in between adventures. A private, secure sanctuary to retreat to every so often.

At the moment I'm leaning toward that Wizard/Ranger/Arcane Archer build mentioned above.

[TheFamilarRaven]

And then there's just a simple "Wand of Plane Shift" it would cost 21,000 gold.


Sadly wands only go up to 4th level, and Plane Shift happens to be a 5th level spell, and that's only if you're a cleric/oracle.

Honestly my first thought when I saw your premise was "wizard", although I suppose their usually more of the "learn all I can" type rather than the "see everything I can".

Now my thought is like as others have said, cloistered cleric of Desna(thematically appropriate) should get you access to a lot of the Knowledge you need, so long as you invest in intelligence. Then pick up a trait that adds Survival to your list of class skills and you'll be set. And cleric's are no slouches when it comes to defending themselves since they get access t spell casting.

[Vhaidara]

Also remember that having something as a class skill means a lot less in PF than in 3.5. In 3.5, it affected your max ranks, which translated to prerequisites. In PF, it's just "do I get a +3 bonus?". A cleric with a 20 wisdom and a ranger with a 14 will have the same Survival mod, assuming all else is equal. Once the cleric can start investing more into his wisdom (items, level bumps), he'll start to pull ahead as long as he keeps ranking the skill.

[Slithery D]

Sadly wands only go up to 4th level, and Plane Shift happens to be a 5th level spell, and that's only if you're a cleric/oracle.

Psychics also have it at 5th level, which is why I recommended one.

[Eldonauran]

Nature Priest (http://archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Druid%20Nature%20P riest) Druid with the Liberation (http://archivesofnethys.com/DomainDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Liberation) (Freedom) subdomain gets plane shift as a 5th level spell.

[Florian]

At the moment I'm leaning toward that Wizard/Ranger/Arcane Archer build mentioned above.

Hm... how to phrase it? PF now offers more options to do stuff like planar exploration than you can shake a stick at. The difference between the "newish" and the 3.5 "legacy" material, such as spells, is pretty dramatic at that point, with the new stuff being more flexible, way more flavorful and less primitive fire and forget auto-success like the basic PHB spells.

If you want to make an inexperienced gm cry, look no further then the research rules, Locate Gate, Contact Entity and Entice Fey, with full knowledge why and how those spells differ from the regular Binding type spells (meaning you can actually achieve things way faster and cheaper this way...)

[tadkins]

Hm... how to phrase it? PF now offers more options to do stuff like planar exploration than you can shake a stick at. The difference between the "newish" and the 3.5 "legacy" material, such as spells, is pretty dramatic at that point, with the new stuff being more flexible, way more flavorful and less primitive fire and forget auto-success like the basic PHB spells.

If you want to make an inexperienced gm cry, look no further then the research rules, Locate Gate, Contact Entity and Entice Fey, with full knowledge why and how those spells differ from the regular Binding type spells (meaning you can actually achieve things way faster and cheaper this way...)

How much of it is generally accessible to non-casters though? Like, would I be able to do the stuff I mentioned above in the post (like travel across planes and worlds) as a straight up 20 ranger, for instance?

[Baroncognito]

Sadly wands only go up to 4th level, and Plane Shift happens to be a 5th level spell, and that's only if you're a cleric/oracle.

Honestly my first thought when I saw your premise was "wizard", although I suppose their usually more of the "learn all I can" type rather than the "see everything I can".

Now my thought is like as others have said, cloistered cleric of Desna(thematically appropriate) should get you access to a lot of the Knowledge you need, so long as you invest in intelligence. Then pick up a trait that adds Survival to your list of class skills and you'll be set. And cleric's are no slouches when it comes to defending themselves since they get access t spell casting.

Hero Lab tells me that Mediums get Plane Shift as a 4th level spell.

[Florian]

How much of it is generally accessible to non-casters though? Like, would I be able to do the stuff I mentioned above in the post (like travel across planes and worlds) as a straight up 20 ranger, for instance?

In german, I´d answer you with a straight "jain", which is a compound word of yes and no, indicating that both parts are equally true answers.

The two sub-systems "Discovery and Exploration" and "Research" provide rules (now normally found on the regular free SRD sites) that cover surprisingly mundane means and ways to get things like planar travel w/o magic done, with the aforementioned caveat that the gm has to play along.

[tadkins]

with the aforementioned caveat that the gm has to play along.

That's precisely what I'm trying to avoid. xD

The thing is, I don't actually intend to really play this character in a game. It wouldn't fit any game really; a solitary wilderness man that exists to travel the universe. Maybe as an NPC guide for some PCs or something. I just like thinking about the concept. But I'd like to build it in a way that the rules say would be okay; I don't want to have to rely on a GM potentially being generous and willing to bend rules and whatnot.

[Florian]

That's precisely what I'm trying to avoid. xD

The thing is, I don't actually intend to really play this character in a game. It wouldn't fit any game really; a solitary wilderness man that exists to travel the universe. Maybe as an NPC guide for some PCs or something. I just like thinking about the concept. But I'd like to build it in a way that the rules say would be okay; I don't want to have to rely on a GM potentially being generous and willing to bend rules and whatnot.

Ah, ok, so you don't know the specific rules I'm talking about? The thing is, the basics are there and a ready-to-use framework, the gm must actually do the finishing touches.

Very simplified, it works like this: You state your rough goal, like traveling to the astral plane, and potentially how you want to do it, either by locating a gate, roping some fey into it, and so on.

Then you proceed to research how to do it, which is a series of appropriate knowledge checks (*) that build up "knowledge points (kp)" which will give you 1) the basics, 2) the specifics and 3,4,5...) Additional infos on the subject matter.

After that, you go on to explore your option. This works similarly with building up "discovery points" and will lead to the final result.

Thing is, it´s all there, the gm just has to connect the dots and put some color to it.

Let's say your character wants to hitch a ride aboard a Black Ship. that's a CR 8 task (going by standard Denizens of Leng), so the research DC is 20 and the basic discovery DC is 26. The mechanical parts are all there, now the gm has to provide the details and what the information means.

(*) Rangers and Horizon Walkers (as well as some Rogue talents) give a massive benefit with the checks.

[tadkins]

Ah, ok, so you don't know the specific rules I'm talking about? The thing is, the basics are there and a ready-to-use framework, the gm must actually do the finishing touches.

What I mean is that there's a difference between what you described and what I'm aiming for. In your scenario, travel would be dependent on what the DM places in their world. What I'm aiming for is the innate power to do it. A character with Plane Shift and Interplanetary Teleport spells wouldn't have to worry about whether a DM has placed a stationary Gate somewhere, or a Black Ship, etc.

[Avigor]

I'm envisioning a character who simply lives to see as much as they can throughout their life. They would be good at getting to and surviving in just about any terrain, material plane and beyond. They would be able to keep themselves out of danger for the most part, but be able to defend themselves when necessary. To walk across the face of creation and enjoy its great majesty.

How would you build such a character?

While it might not be the most optimal, Ardent Dilettante from 3.5's Planar Handbook comes to mind as an strong contender for "lives to see as much as they can throughout their life".

Another, Pathfinder option that fits the bill, if you're willing to make writing about what you see into a potential source of income, is Pathfinder Chronicler (in the PFSRD).

[Baroncognito]

But what you're describing sounds less like exploring than it does sight seeing. Which is why, in retrospect, I liked the horse idea best: you could potentially end up somewhere you don't want to be and have no immediate way out.

[tadkins]

But what you're describing sounds less like exploring than it does sight seeing. Which is why, in retrospect, I liked the horse idea best: you could potentially end up somewhere you don't want to be and have no immediate way out.

Exploring and sight seeing are more or less the same though aren't they? If I wake up one day and feel like seeing the 9th layer of Hell for instance, I'd go there to look around, see the sights, and try to snag a souvenir or two. xD

But yep I do like what I have seen with the horse. Though correct me if I'm wrong, but the "end up where you don't want to be" thing only applies if you're Good, right? Nonetheless I can consider that a viable option.

[Baroncognito]

Yeah, only if you're good, but you could probably work it out with the GM to have the horse randomly take you places.

And the difference between sight seeing and exploring is basically that sight seeing is about the destination and exploring is about the trip.

[Florian]

Exploring and sight seeing are more or less the same though aren't they? If I wake up one day and feel like seeing the 9th layer of Hell for instance, I'd go there to look around, see the sights, and try to snag a souvenir or two. xD

Nah. Exploring is all about getting there, sightseeing is about being there, big difference. take a look at where the word "tourist" comes from: Taking the "grand tour" through Europe and being at the points that are "must see" for the cultured gentlemen, then writing a letter home to prove it.

That touches on a misconception in your previous post, something to do with your thoughts on what seem to be "legit" or not: Nothing ever exists beyond what a gm has prepped for a session. It´s nice to think a spell like plane shift ought to work because it exists and hell might be a possible shift target, but if a gm has nothing on hell, nothing prepped, you actually leave the game when using that spell to go to hell (or your gm has to wing it and make things up as you go). Even when casting a Binding spell, a gm has to create an NPC on the fly, especially when you're researching a true name up front.

[tadkins]

Nah. Exploring is all about getting there, sightseeing is about being there, big difference. take a look at where the word "tourist" comes from: Taking the "grand tour" through Europe and being at the points that are "must see" for the cultured gentlemen, then writing a letter home to prove it.

That touches on a misconception in your previous post, something to do with your thoughts on what seem to be "legit" or not: Nothing ever exists beyond what a gm has prepped for a session. It´s nice to think a spell like plane shift ought to work because it exists and hell might be a possible shift target, but if a gm has nothing on hell, nothing prepped, you actually leave the game when using that spell to go to hell (or your gm has to wing it and make things up as you go). Even when casting a Binding spell, a gm has to create an NPC on the fly, especially when you're researching a true name up front.

In an actual game, yes. I am talking about what this character can theoretically do on their own though, assuming no DM involvement.

[Florian]

In an actual game, yes. I am talking about what this character can theoretically do on their own though, assuming no DM involvement.

Hm... ok. I´d say something like a H-Elf (Elf-Raised) Paladin (Faithful Wanderer) 2 / Arcanist (Magaambyan Initiate) 6 / Hellknight Signifer 3 / Magaambyan Arcanist 9 should be your best option for it.

Reason: Faithful Wanderer lets you mask you aura and alignment (not so unimportant on the lower or chaotic plains), Signifer lets you at least carry some armor without problems and the magaambyan elements add a lot of druid spells to your arcane spell list, broadening traveling and survival options at hand.