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View Full Version : Binder/Warlock: feats and Ranger or Glaivelock?



Hyperversum
2017-12-11, 09:56 AM
Ehi there guys! A fast summary before asking my question.

I am gonna play in a new campaing as a player (finally, after over 7 months) and I'm gonna be the 5th character, and I wanted to try out a Binder, and in particular I went for Binder/Warlock, with an adaptation of the PRC "Anima Mage".
I will enter it at level 4, and the first 3 levels will be: Binder 1, Warlock 1, Binder 2.

In order to enter, I will take Improved Binding (pretty obvious) and Ability Focus on EB (which is the sobstitution for Metamagic, since metamagic for Spell-Like abilities aren't something that you get at level 3, and since I could do the original version of the PRC at level 4 as a wizard, the DM ruled this prerequisite).

I'm gonna be a human with the Unseelie Fey template (fey are pretty relevant in the setting, and the DM himself encouraged to optimize our PCs so, why not? He gave the ok). I can take up to 2 flaws but I have generally NO IDEA about what a mostly ranged Warlock would benefit the most from. My idea was in fact to use the Binder as the "main" class until level 6/7, with Warlock as a support for blasting and similar, and when I will be able, enter Hellfire Warlock and improve my blasting abilities.

My build for now is:

1) Improved Binding, Mortalbane, Nymph's Kiss (Dunno if it's worth it, the saves and the bonus to Binding Checks sound good) + another
3) Ability Focus (Eldtrich Blast)
6) Maximize Spell-Like ability
9) Quicken Spell-Like ability
12) And from here, the absolute nothing.

My problem? I want to use both flaws effectively since I won't have others except from standard ones and I don't know what to choose between Glaive-based Warlock or standard ranged Warlock. I know that the first has a superior damage output, but positioning is a pain in the ass and I don't know if I am able to sustain the melee, also melee Vestiges doesn't offer me much tbh, I am more interested in vestiges that improve my versatility.

In general, suggest me ANY feat that such a character would benefit from, because even if i'm reading various books, I can't find anything truly interesting. I mean, I considered Nymph's Kiss because of a +1 ST and +2 on Cha-based checks, I really don't know!

weckar
2017-12-11, 10:22 AM
The Shorten Grip feat or one of its variants make for a good fit on a glaivelock, to cancel out the 'negative' of a reach weapon.

skunk3
2017-12-11, 02:37 PM
I wouldn't bother with Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast. It is not worth taking at all.

Quicken SLA can be decent but just remember that if you add any shapes or essences, you might not be able to use it. I'd go with quicken over maximize for sure, especially since you have Mortalbane already.

Vestiges and Warlocks actually have a good synergy... I am sure you are aware of binding Naberious so you can spam hellfire blasts all day long. (From the Hellfire Warlock prestige class)

If you're going for a glaivelock I'd keep quicken SLA and dump maximize as well as ability focus, but keep in mind that you won't be able to quicken an eldritch glaive until a certain level which I don't know off of the top of my head.

Hyperversum
2017-12-11, 04:55 PM
The Shorten Grip feat or one of its variants make for a good fit on a glaivelock, to cancel out the 'negative' of a reach weapon.

This may be an idea.


I wouldn't bother with Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast. It is not worth taking at all.

Quicken SLA can be decent but just remember that if you add any shapes or essences, you might not be able to use it. I'd go with quicken over maximize for sure, especially since you have Mortalbane already.

Vestiges and Warlocks actually have a good synergy... I am sure you are aware of binding Naberious so you can spam hellfire blasts all day long. (From the Hellfire Warlock prestige class)

If you're going for a glaivelock I'd keep quicken SLA and dump maximize as well as ability focus, but keep in mind that you won't be able to quicken an eldritch glaive until a certain level which I don't know off of the top of my head.

It's a prerequisites anyway. I couldn't find a Metamagic for Spell Like abilities at level 1. I know, it pretty much sucks, but it was in order to enter the PRC at level 3/4. If I was a wizard, I could take any Metamagic, but you know... not standard spellcasters can only suffer.
I mean, Quicken requires like LI 8 and Maximize requires LI 6, I can't take them at level 3 in any case, and from my PoV, entering in PrC at level 3/4 and level up both my Eldtrich Blast and Invocations AND my Binding is worth a ****ty feat.

Captn_Flounder
2017-12-11, 05:00 PM
You have to be Caster Level 10 to get Quicken SLA. Can't get it until level 12. And since Eldritch Glaive counts as either a first or second level SLA you couldn't quicken it until either 11 or 12 anyways.

Ability focus isn't needed since the best invocations don't get a save. I. E. Eldritch Glaive, See the Unseen, Fell Flight, the Animate Dead one, Walk Unseen, etc. Spell penetration is much better for overcoming SR. Can straight dump CHA.

Weapon Finesse would be a good idea so you can dump Strength. Applies to Eldritch Glaive dispute being Two Handed based on weapon weight. This way you only need Dex, Con, and some Int.

After maxing Hellfire Warlock go for Uncanny trickster. This way you can get effectively 5 levels of Hellfire Warlock instead of 3. Will need 14 int IIRC to get the skills required. Otherwise the only skills you need are Sex and Con. Can function effectively with 3 Str/Cha.

Will post more advice soon if you wish, very busy at work currently.

DEMON
2017-12-11, 05:48 PM
the only skills you need are Sex and Con.

Must.. resist... *fails Will save and For save*...

Doesn't this apply to almost anything ever?

Captn_Flounder
2017-12-11, 06:01 PM
As for build, I would go Warlock 8/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3/Warlock 5. Only need Binder 1 for Naberius.

Feats
1. Weapon Finesse, Mortalbane, Spell Penetration, Combat Reflexes
3. Greater Spell Penetration
6. Maximize Spell Like Ability
9. Empower Spell Like Ability
12. Quicken Spell Like Ability

Items to look for or buy:

Greater Chausible of Fell Power +2d6 to Eldritch Blast for 18k. Yes please since all boosts work with the Metamagiced SLAs

Gloves of Eldritch Admixture/Warlock Scepter. Expend Charges for more Damage for only 2500g/8.5k-ish

Piercer Cloak. Same as above but only when above an enemy. With permanent flight at level 6 this is huge.

Ring of Featherfall - flight will be dispelled eventually and helps you avoid all those D6. 2,200g.

Don't take that feat to remove Reach. Reach is Fantastic since you will destroy anyone who steps within 1 square of you with multiple AoO a round.

Hyperversum
2017-12-11, 08:11 PM
You have to be Caster Level 10 to get Quicken SLA. Can't get it until level 12. And since Eldritch Glaive counts as either a first or second level SLA you couldn't quicken it until either 11 or 12 anyways.

Ability focus isn't needed since the best invocations don't get a save. I. E. Eldritch Glaive, See the Unseen, Fell Flight, the Animate Dead one, Walk Unseen, etc. Spell penetration is much better for overcoming SR. Can straight dump CHA.

Weapon Finesse would be a good idea so you can dump Strength. Applies to Eldritch Glaive dispute being Two Handed based on weapon weight. This way you only need Dex, Con, and some Int.

After maxing Hellfire Warlock go for Uncanny trickster. This way you can get effectively 5 levels of Hellfire Warlock instead of 3. Will need 14 int IIRC to get the skills required. Otherwise the only skills you need are Sex and Con. Can function effectively with 3 Str/Cha.

Will post more advice soon if you wish, very busy at work currently.

I remembered other levels, my bad. I was too positive, I guess ahahahah!
Anyway, I coudl dump Cha, sure. But with my stats it would be a waste anyway (I rolled 18/18/17/15/13/12. Buy point is for the weak anyway). In particular since I go Unseelie Fey and I will try to abuse
UMD.

My table anyway isn't new to optimization, not at all, but we always considered Uncanny Trickster used on PRC already ended a... bit too cheesy. RAW it works, but makes little sense in-universe. But this made me remember that we ruled that Practised Spellcaster gives me back also EB damage. Could be worth.

Also... yeah, I know the "standard build for high tier blasting", but I was trying to experiment a bit more with the Binder. Such an interesting class is "wasted" in simply avoiding damage on my CON. That's why we homebrewed a PRC for Warlock-Binder.
It's already a pity that with my EB I won't ever use fighting vestiges ahahahah

And yeah, that would be the MOST damaging build, but Pact Magic is really versatile, and my DM and me (I am the historical DM of the party anyway, with another guy) are working on slight buffs to it, since it was never again supported in official materials.


Must.. resist... *fails Will save and For save*...

Doesn't this apply to almost anything ever?

Pretty much. That's why losing 2 CON because of the Unseelie Fey disturbs me but... ehi, I ****ing fly with cute butterfly wings from level 1 and I get myself one overpowered ability.

Winter Chill can be really fantastic, even just in order to support my companions (walk in the face of a guy and giving him -5 to all saves? I can see usage in combat, I can see usage in RP while acting like a lil' slut while my enchanter companion shoots a charme.... too many things tbh).
Vernal Touch could be glorious, but wee have a cleric (of Heironeous so heals and buffs won't miss in this party).
Summer Caress is the ultimate for of defense at low levels, I could literally ignore the vulnerability to steel with this, more or less.
Autumn Harvest could also be top-tier, but there are invocations for that and I have a wizard in the team anyway.

It's all win for me to keep my CHA in the high numbers.