Hexblade Eldritch blast user.

[Throne12]

How does a hexblade using EB stack up Against a pact of the blade.

[ad_hoc]

How does a hexblade using EB stack up Against a pact of the blade.

Of course it does. It is better.

[Isaire]

I think the answer is just fine. Depending on how many feats and combinations you are willing to set up, blade-pact hexblade can be very potent, but EB will always be pretty good. You can look at this thread to see the maths if you are that interested:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542411-Doesn%92t-a-ranged-warlock-still-outdamage-a-hexblade-warlock&highlight=Hexblade+Eldritch+blast+bladelock


Actually I might have misunderstood. Do you mean a Hexblade non-blade-pact vs. a non-Hexblade blade-pact? (In which case, Hexblade with EB is potent, while non-Hexblade blade-pact can be less powerful)

[Talamare]

Heavy Crossbow Hex Blade is better during levels 4-10 (1-10 for V.Human)

Since they can use Crossbow Master Feat to attack an extra time each turn
but at level 11 EB attacks 3x as well, tho the Hex Blade might still be advantaged with SS Feat

[Daphne]

How does a hexblade using EB stack up Against a pact of the blade.

Are magic items common in your games? No? Then it's better than pact of the blade. If magic items are common, EB is still good as you can get a boon that gives more utility without loosing much damage.

[miburo]

I mean, you still get Medium Armor + Shields, and Hexblade Curse is really good for an EB user. The Cha to weapons is a nice backup just in case somebody gets too close for comfort. The non-smite Hexblade spells are still useful. Even if magic items are common, getting a Rod of the Pact Mage (+1 to +3) is still pretty darn awesome for EB and your other spells.

It's more of a toss up than EB vs. Bladelock for other patrons, but an EB Hexblade will do pretty well.

[Malifice]

Of course it does. It is better.

No, its not.

[Asmotherion]

Use both like a real gish. Don't limit yourself to bows as a ranged option; Use the Force, young Sith!

If you question is about stacking with Hexblade's Curse, yes it stacks.

Damage wise, depending on your investment in feats/multiclass, you will end up better in one over the other; However one is your Class Cantrip, needing only 1 Invocation of Investment to make you great in ranged combat (The cantrip has an pseudo extra attack progression similar to a Fighter's), wile the other needs heavy feat investment. Feats you could invest to become better in melee, gain more HP or overall on other things.

[Spiritchaser]

No, its not.

Even though a well optimized blade pact hexblade can out pace EB spam in the raw damage department, it’s worth noting that EB is still really really good on hexblade, can fit into nearly any build, and does its damage at range.

I’d argue that ranged damage is worth 10-20% more based on mobility issues you don’t have.

Yes it’s true that on occasion things will get too close, maybe knock off something for that... but not much

[Sigreid]

Even though a well optimized blade pact hexblade can out pace EB spam in the raw damage department, it’s worth noting that EB is still really really good on hexblade, can fit into nearly any build, and does its damage at range.

I’d argue that ranged damage is worth 10-20% more based on mobility issues you don’t have.

Yes it’s true that on occasion things will get too close, maybe knock off something for that... but not much

IMO the point of a hexblade, or any blade pact warlock, is to have both and approach the fighter in combat flexibility.

[Spiritchaser]

IMO the point of a hexblade, or any blade pact warlock, is to have both and approach the fighter in combat flexibility.

The hexblade at my table does this. Eldritch blast is about a third of what he does (give or take)

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Heavy Crossbow Hex Blade is better during levels 4-10 (1-10 for V.Human)

Since they can use Crossbow Master Feat to attack an extra time each turn
but at level 11 EB attacks 3x as well, tho the Hex Blade might still be advantaged with SS Feat

You are wrong about that feat. The bonus action attack only works for hand crossbows, the small one handed ones. Please reread it closely and carefully.

Crossbow Expert
Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
• You ignore the loading quality of (all) crossbows with which you are proficient.
• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
• When you use the Attack action and attack with a one- handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded *hand* crossbow you are holding.

[Sigreid]

You are wrong about that feat. The bonus action attack only works for hand crossbows, the small one handed ones. Please reread it closely and carefully.

Crossbow Expert
Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
• You ignore the loading quality of (all) crossbows with which you are proficient.
• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
• When you use the Attack action and attack with a one- handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded *hand* crossbow you are holding.


True, but if you have the Improved Pact Weapon invocation you can make a crossbow and then use your pact weapon extra attack invocation with it.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

True, but if you have the Improved Pact Weapon invocation you can make a crossbow and then use your pact weapon extra attack invocation with it.

Yes that is true but separate of what he was saying. He assumed just the feat got a heavy crossbow a bonus attack

[Citan]

How does a hexblade using EB stack up Against a pact of the blade.
Hi

I think the answer is just fine. Depending on how many feats and combinations you are willing to set up, blade-pact hexblade can be very potent, but EB will always be pretty good. You can look at this thread to see the maths if you are that interested:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542411-Doesn%92t-a-ranged-warlock-still-outdamage-a-hexblade-warlock&highlight=Hexblade+Eldritch+blast+bladelock


Actually I might have misunderstood. Do you mean a Hexblade non-blade-pact vs. a non-Hexblade blade-pact? (In which case, Hexblade with EB is potent, while non-Hexblade blade-pact can be less powerful)
I think this answer is quite fine, but I could give another.
Simplicity vs focus.
Melee Hexblade without pact will be ultimately lagging behind as far as personal damage goes mainly because of lack of extra attacks: although weapon cantrips do deal a good bit of damage, Hexblade feature and Hex are obviously lesser interesting. On the plus side, your mind is freed from the "opti=Hex" scheme, so you could instead use Hold Person or Hold Monster (Chain) which are party multipliers in addition to helping yourself... Or totally play as a ranged Warlock and just profit from better armor and reliable Booming Blade to prevent enemies coming close from pursuing you.

Melee Non-Hexblade Blade will be very good but requires a pretty significant investment for that so will feel hard to play at lower levels (although, contrarily to popular opinion here, I do think a Bladelock is viable without Fighter/Cleric dip ;)).

Grabbing Hexblade is basically a way to become equally adept with weapon attacks and spells while also addressing defense issues, so basically that Patron choice is the best...
- If you don't know where to go with your character yet (Pact/Invocation choices) and want to keep most options opened...
- Or if you plan on making a dual-class / tri-class with other classes not bringing similar benefits (armor proficiency, to-hit help) while potentially synergizing with Hexblade feature or Warlock spells.

Beware though that, as Malifice stressed in another thread, other Patrons have very compelling "arguments" to be chosen in terms of higher-level features. So if for someone intending to be pure Warlock, I'd still advise in the end to think immediately of what Patron+Pact combo to take (exactly like usually when making a Sorcerer you have to plan in advance to choose a combination of metamagics and spells).

[Talamare]

Yes that is true but separate of what he was saying. He assumed just the feat got a heavy crossbow a bonus attack

Minor mistake that holds true to the statement
1d6+4 x3 (22.5) vs 1d10 +4 x2 (19)

(assuming the +1/+1 from Invocation, and 2 Higher Charisma for EB to equalize the -1 Feat)


At Lv12
1d6+11 x3 (43.5) vs 1d10 +5 x3 (31.5)

(both have 20 CHA now, but EB has 1 more feat. XBow has a slight advantage because he technically has a +1 Weapon from his stats.)

Let me know if something is off

[Styrax]

TL;DR: There isn't much difference except EB can take any pact and only needs Agonizing blast to compete in damage.

I believe that Hexblade's Curse doesn't specify that the attacks have to be with the pact weapon.

EB build: Start with 16 Cha, +2,+2 at levels 4 & 8 for 20 Charisma total. Free asi/feat
Invocations: Agonizing Blast (lvl2) 5 free Invocations
Disadvantage at close range, only takes one invocation

At lvl 5 EB is: 1d10 + 4(Agonizing blast) +3(curse) x2
(25 damage +7 to hit)

At lvl 12 EB is: 1d10 +5(Agonizing Blast) +4(curse) x3
(43.5 damage, +9 to hit)

At lvl 20 EB is: 1d10 +5(Agonizing Blast) +6(curse) x4
(66 damage, +11 to hit)

Hand Crossbow Build: 16 Cha, lvl 4: Crossbow Expert, +2,+2 Cha at 8, 12 for 20 Charisma total.
Invocation: Improved Pact Weapon(lvl2), Thirsting Blade(lvl5), Lifedrinker (lvl12) 3 free Invocations
No disadvantage at close range, requires bonus action for one attack, Eldritch Smite is an option
At lvl 5 HC is: 1d6 + 3(Hex warrior) +3(curse) +1(IPW) x2 (CE)
(21 damage +7 to hit)

At lvl 12 HC is: 1d6 + 5(Hex warrior) +5(Lifedrinker) +4(curse) +1(IPW) x3 (CE,TB)
(55.5 damage +10 to hit)

At lvl 20 HC is: 1d6 + 5(Hex warrior) +5(Lifedrinker) +6(curse) +1(IPW) x3 (CE,TB)
(61.5 damage +12 to hit)


Polearm+GWM: Level 20: Polearm Mastery, GWM, +2Cha, +2Cha, free ASI
Invocation: Improved Pact Weapon(lvl2), Thirsting Blade(lvl5), Lifedrinker (lvl12) 3 free Invocations

At lvl 20: (2d10 + 1d4) + 3x{5(Hex warrior) +5(Lifedrinker) +6(curse) +1(IPW)} (CE,TB)
(64.5 damage +12 to hit) or 3x GWM (94.5 damage +7 to hit)

Greatsword GWM: sorry I'm getting lazy
At lvl 20:2 attacks (68 damage +7 to hit) bonus action on kill (102 damage +7 to hit)

[Mortis_Elrod]

They both do really well.

EB focusing is rewarded early on and is easier to invest in.

PoB pays off alot later on and is decent before that.

Warlock is great because you can have both or one and still be great. I regularly never take EB on bladelocks without any regrets, and EB focusing pair well with any pact boon.


Both do well with Hexblade paton, simply because its really really good if you want to focus on that DAWMAGE. But don't ignore the other patrons that can offer really nice flavor and story. Fiend is still good for blade pact, and no you don't need a dip in Fighter, it merely helps. Archfey might be considered the all around useful patron, giving you social abilities, a nice escape, and awesome control and utility spells. GOO is both weird and fun, giving you telepathy at level 1 which opens up alot of useful options, all the weird illusion and control and psychic-y spells you want and some useful abilities like entropic ward and psychic resistance. Tops it off with thralls so pretty nice. Celestial is wonderful option for someone wanting to be a warlock and still slap around some healing or shoot divine fire everywhere or rise back up like a phoenix. It's very much like the divine half of the warlock trying to be a paladin that the Hexblade represents.