VoP Bartering?

[AvatarVecna]

Alrighty, so people with Vow Of Poverty aren't allowed to "own or use" basically anything. This for the most part prevents them from doing any kind of trade: they have no wealth of money and next to no wealth of items, so what could they offer to another...and what could they accept in return? The answer, I think, is services. As near as I can tell, it is within RAW (and, IMO, RAI) to allow a oP character to "pay" for services rendered by performing a service in kind.

What do you think? Does this seem RAW-legal? Is it something you'd allow at your table?

[XionUnborn01]

Yeah, I don't see why they couldn't do that. There's prices to hire people so if use those to figure out the worth.

This gives me the idea of using a VoP monk to be an imbetween during trades because they know he won't steal it or anything, so he just run a the items between buyers and sellers.

[khadgar567]

legit loop hole found this might be strangest rules abuse i headed

[casb1965]

I would see no problem with a VoP cleric "paying" for his bed and board by offering some healing service.

[Crake]

legit loop hole found this might be strangest rules abuse i headed

This isn't exactly a loophole, or rules abuse. It's pretty much the basis of 90% of quests, we need your help with something, what can we do to convince you? Go do a quest in return.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This isn't exactly a loophole, or rules abuse. It's pretty much the basis of 90% of quests, we need your help with something, what can we do to convince you? Go do a quest in return.
That, and I honestly can't think of anything you could actually do with the return service. Certainly not anything close to abuse. Get spells cast for you/on you, I guess?

[AvatarVecna]

That, and I honestly can't think of anything you could actually do with the return service. Certainly not anything close to abuse. Get spells cast for you/on you, I guess?

This is more or less what I'm asking about, although other things can be done as well: trading spellcasting services for spellcasting services can potentially get a VoPer access to spell effects they normally can't get.

[Elder_Basilisk]

It seems to me that VoP really needs some setting element in order to be properly adjudicated. Is the character a mendicant friar? If so, the point of his vow of poverty is that he is supposed to live off of free donations. Allowing the exchange of spellcasting services for spells that he would not normally be able to access seems to subvert that purpose.

Answer why the Vow of Poverty works and you will answer whether the maneuver is legitimate.

[Anxe]

It seems to me that VoP really needs some setting element in order to be properly adjudicated. Is the character a mendicant friar? If so, the point of his vow of poverty is that he is supposed to live off of free donations. Allowing the exchange of spellcasting services for spells that he would not normally be able to access seems to subvert that purpose.

Answer why the Vow of Poverty works and you will answer whether the maneuver is legitimate.

It depends on the purpose of the service the friar is asking in return. As long as its for an Exalted purpose, there shouldn't be a problem.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is more or less what I'm asking about, although other things can be done as well: trading spellcasting services for spellcasting services can potentially get a VoPer access to spell effects they normally can't get.
I mean, "do a quest, get a reward" is literally the basic structure of the game, so there's that. Besides, it's not like most VoP characters couldn't use a few spells cast on their behalf now and again.

[ayvango]

That, and I honestly can't think of anything you could actually do with the return service. Certainly not anything close to abuse. Get spells cast for you/on you, I guess?
In return a VoPed character could benefit from dark chaos feat substitution. He has plenty of useless feats

[Deophaun]

It beats carrying around hundreds of thousands of gold worth of light crossbows.

[Hecuba]

It seems to me that VoP really needs some setting element in order to be properly adjudicated. Is the character a mendicant friar? If so, the point of his vow of poverty is that he is supposed to live off of free donations. Allowing the exchange of spellcasting services for spells that he would not normally be able to access seems to subvert that purpose.

Answer why the Vow of Poverty works and you will answer whether the maneuver is legitimate.

It's worth noting that there is a difference between a gift economy and a barter economy. Both frameworks provide some degree of reciprocity, but only the later deals with it in terms of transactional equivalency.

Consider: while the particulars of some forms of voluntary poverty might not be OK with explicitly bartering providing care for a sick child for room and board, very few would object to a meal and a nights rest given as an explicit gift of gratitude after the fact - especially if unprompted.

Likewise - while bartering explicitly in spellcasting services might be unacceptable for some cases - returned aid in kind likely is not. The Lady who is grateful to an Apostle of Peace for previously curing her son of Mummy rot might we'll be willing to have her course wizard provide a Teleportation spell when the AoP needs to be across the continent in a jiffy to deals with some demons.

TL;DR?: Even for cases where bexolicit barter might be out, you can probably make some of this work by using framing this as gifts of thanks. Simply make sure to limit the quid pro quo and transactional elements, and potentially make the timeframe less immediate.