How to let my DM understand that when he is making creatures stronger he goes to far

[Canadiandevil]

So we just started a campaign, and we are using the Curse of Strahd adventure, we are a party of 4, cleric (who is the tank in this case), wizard, bard and rogue. The start of it was a custom thing to get a story going, and the long and short of it, he made us do a fight where we were on a boat and being attacked by pirate, of about i wanna say 10, like 7 grunts and the other 3 were big guys. At the time we were all level 2, and he one hit killed our wizard with the enemy wizard by casting magic missile, and i mean killed he put our wizard into death save. So as a bard i ended up doing stuff so we don't die, but in the end we got captured and the DM took all our gear, we had no armor and no weapons, any of the magic caster lost their arcane focus, any money was lost and does not allow us a long rest after that combat to heal up and get spells of class traits back, tosses us into the start of the game, and puts us in the Death House epilogue. We go through the house, take a short rest to get hp back, and when we do he kinda make it sound like the house will not let us rest willy nilly. So after a while of exploring we encounter our first enemy, an animated armor, but he beefed it up alot, made it hp in the 80's when it suppose to be 22, increased any ability so that he would not have any negatives, increased its armor by 1 up to 19 and gave it a great-sword when it wasnt suppose to have one, making his attacks 1d10 instead of 1d6. at this point we found a few weapons to defend ourselves, like a long-sword, our rogue had to literally use a fork. So it took everything we had and some cheese, (i suggested we throw it down the stairs, we were on the 3rd floor, we then greased the stairs so he would have trouble getting up) so in the end we won because of that, and bad rolls on the DM's part, but since none of us were tank in the health he could one hit us.

When confronted about it, he would go on about how Ravenloft is for men not *******, and that if he feels like a fight is too easy he will make it harder. I tried to tell him the book is balance for a fair and challenging game play so that it remains fun, but as i pressed on that he should stick as closely to the book he would get mad and just say "why don't i just give you 10000000xp and put you all to 20, you killed Strahd you win" implying if he can't make it hard then everything is going to be a cake walk because he choose to bring us up one level. As it went on it was said they not every fight is a fight, an that we should have to run if needed, but at this point we have no idea what he going to make stronger or not, so all i kind think of, is run away from every combat unless we have a way to chunk a large portion of his health away from the start. I will add that the treasure he gave was a black pearl (500 gp) and a potion of invisibility, which i tried to tell him would be a fine reward if we were at the right level. So am i right into thinking that what he is doing is wrong, like im fine if he boosts them a bit, maybe give him a bit more hp, but he buffed it to the point it was almost like Strahd Animated Armor which is a CR 6.

TL;DR: DM is making creature a lot stronger, and get mad if we tell him its too hard.

[krugaan]

Shrug, just flat out say it "This is too hard, dude. We're all gonna die."

If he persists, play it for the challenge. If you don't die, your DM is either fudging rolls for you, or you're awesome!

If you all die, then go out for snacks and roll again, or tell the DM thanks for the fun, and leave.

[Unoriginal]

Outside of AL, a DM has the right to make a fight as difficult and as rewarding as they wish. Even if it's to bs level.

As a player, you have the right to never play at this guy's table again if he keeps doing it.

[Demonslayer666]

No, he isn't wrong, it's preference.

If you aren't enjoying the game, tell him what would make it more fun for you. If it persists, and you aren't getting any enjoyment from it, get into a new game.

What is the group dynamic? Are you all good friends, or is this a pickup game at your local gaming store?

[Canadiandevil]

Thats what one person told him, the wizard, said if he dies 3 times, and he already died once, he gonna quit, and this is what he said when it told him it was too hard

"too bad, ravenloft is for men, not *******
you guys went in there half cocked
u could of easily rested before going up the stairs to relearn your spells"

We are also using the roll20 site, so we are seeing his rolls, so he actually rolled bad. IDk i really wanted to play D&D since I love the format, and if i do die because of a mob that was to strong the plan is to right out leave and reject any resurection.

[Canadiandevil]

No, he isn't wrong, it's preference.

If you aren't enjoying the game, tell him what would make it more fun for you. If it persists, and you aren't getting any enjoyment from it, get into a new game.

What is the group dynamic? Are you all good friends, or is this a pickup game at your local gaming store?

We are all co-workers, and friends, we play games and such.

[Lord8Ball]

I see no problem in increasing the challenge to meet the players in a fair manner, but that DM's conduct was uncalled for. If I were you if he lashes out during a one on one talk or you are not having fun then (just my opinion) leaving the group would be the best option.

[krugaan]

We are all co-workers, and friends, we play games and such.

My advice, play something else, then.

[Canadiandevil]

I see no problem in increasing the challenge to meet the players in a fair manner, but that DM's conduct was uncalled for. If I were you if he lashes out during a one on one talk or you are not having fun then (just my opinion) leaving the group would be the best option.

I dont mind a bit of a buff, but what he did was way to much where if he would have hit the healers, could be a 1 hit kill, since we lost all of our armor, and out tank was probably down to 14 ac, just in my opinion it was not fair at all, especially since he gave it no negative abilities, making his saves a lot easier, and i am on the fence about leaving the game at this point

[Unoriginal]

Ask if any of your other friends would be up for DMing, then.

Honestly, between his insults, pretending-it's-fair-when-it's-extra-difficult attitude, and the like, your DM sounds like a jerk.

[Canadiandevil]

Ask if any of your other friends would be up for DMing, then.

Honestly, between his insults, pretending-it's-fair-when-it's-extra-difficult attitude, and the like, your DM sounds like a jerk.

I was thinking of DM'ing, because from my point of view, he just wants to kill stuff, and if thats how he wants to play he should be a player not a DM, to me a Dm is a story teller and enjoys the role playing aspect and should expect a loss, but not push towards it.

[Ganymede]

Your DM might not have known that Death House was already a very difficult adventure. Even without buffs, it is an absolute meat grinder.


As for that initial encounter with the pirates, don't sweat it. It sounds like it was just a narrative combat to get the group together into the adventure spot in an exciting way. Out of the Abyss starts in a very similar fashion.

[Corsair14]

For one, shame on you for going and looking up the adventure stats. A DM can make things as hard or as easy as he wants. Even published adventure paths can be changed to the DM's heart's content. I know I have a policy of if half the party isn't on the ground after a fight, it was too easy, but I don't have as many fights or I adjust the fights later on depending on the party's relative strength even if what I have written says otherwise. I am also not above fudging my dice rolls(usually on damage) in order to keep from insta-gibbing my players, unless they do something stupid.

[Canadiandevil]

Thanks for everyone input it does put me at ease to see that he is being a bit unreasonable.

[JNAProductions]

For one, shame on you for going and looking up the adventure stats. A DM can make things as hard or as easy as he wants. Even published adventure paths can be changed to the DM's heart's content. I know I have a policy of if half the party isn't on the ground after a fight, it was too easy, but I don't have as many fights or I adjust the fights later on depending on the party's relative strength even if what I have written says otherwise. I am also not above fudging my dice rolls(usually on damage) in order to keep from insta-gibbing my players, unless they do something stupid.

Dude, it's a game. You shouldn't be shaming people for playing a game.

[intermedial]

How did you present your feedback and complaints to the DM? How long have you and the group been playing together? Did you discuss expectations about the campaign during a session zero?

It sounds like when you talked to the DM about your issues, they responded very aggressively, which means that either:

A) Your DM is unable respond constructively to reasonable criticism, or

B) They way you raised your concerns to the DM made them feel hurt, embarrassed, or attacked, which prompted them to get defensive.

In either case, if you haven't been playing with this group for a while already, you're probably done playing with this person. Especially if scenario A applies: this person is totally unreasonable if that's the case. If you look back and think that you might have said something that pushed them on the defensive during your interaction, another chat might be worthwhile, along with a second chat about social conduct vis-a-vis giving and taking criticism.

Ultimately, the DM does have the power and authority in the rules to present whatever creatures they wish, and make the game as difficult or easy as they desire. Granted, encounter balance can be difficult: even the rules as written don't present clear enough guidelines on what makes a challenging encounter, and player character power can dramatically skew what will be a challenge (unlikely for the 2nd level PCs in this scenario however). Many Dungeon Masters have the idea that an encounter isn't "challenging" unless most of the party is bleeding out by the end of it, which is an insanely difficult bar to set for typical encounter difficulty.

A Dungeon Master can make whatever changes they want to anything in the rules, even if they lack the experience and skills to make good judgements about these changes. Even skilled Dungeon Masters make horribly bad calls once in a while, and what might have been a small mistake spirals out of control into a campaign-ending TPK.

[Canadiandevil]

How did you present your feedback and complaints to the DM? How long have you and the group been playing together? Did you discuss expectations about the campaign during a session zero?

It sounds like when you talked to the DM about your issues, they responded very aggressively, which means that either:

A) Your DM is unable respond constructively to reasonable criticism, or

B) They way you raised your concerns to the DM made them feel hurt, embarrassed, or attacked, which prompted them to get defensive.

In either case, if you haven't been playing with this group for a while already, you're probably done playing with this person. Especially if scenario A applies: this person is totally unreasonable if that's the case. If you look back and think that you might have said something that pushed them on the defensive during your interaction, another chat might be worthwhile, along with a second chat about social conduct vis-a-vis giving and taking criticism.

Ultimately, the DM does have the power and authority in the rules to present whatever creatures they wish, and make the game as difficult or easy as they desire. Granted, encounter balance can be difficult: even the rules as written don't present clear enough guidelines on what makes a challenging encounter, and player character power can dramatically skew what will be a challenge (unlikely for the 2nd level PCs in this scenario however). Many Dungeon Masters have the idea that an encounter isn't "challenging" unless most of the party is bleeding out by the end of it, which is an insanely difficult bar to set for typical encounter difficulty.

A Dungeon Master can make whatever changes they want to anything in the rules, even if they lack the experience and skills to make good judgements about these changes. Even skilled Dungeon Masters make horribly bad calls once in a while, and what might have been a small mistake spirals out of control into a campaign-ending TPK.


It was pretty much our first game, when i confronted him, i basically asked if he used the stats for the correct creature, when he said he did i went a said "Frank there is no need to make it harder, the game should be challenging as is, it's balanced and you already handicapped us by taking all our gear and limiting the resources we can use to 2 books" at that point he goes on saying how we could have done this and that to avoid getting all our gear stolen, even though none of us really had the power to do any of the things he was talking about as a PC die in i think round 3 or 4. And as far as i know this is his first time Dm for 5th edition, he was more of the 2nd edition player. I was trying to tell him it was too hard but it seems like that's what he wants, he wants to make it really hard because it is ravenloft. I just wanted him to stick to the book because he is new at this and no one would have a grasp at whats balanced the first time you do it so i wanted him to stick to the book as close as possible.

[Dalebert]

Wait... are you still in Death House? This is going to sound condescending but I don't mean it to be. There's a spoiler in the title. It's actually designed to be insanely freaking hard and to probably TPK the party. If everyone actually survives all the way through, you probably got very lucky.

I don't want to spoil anything for you. I will only say this for now. Finish Death House and play a little more of this campaign before passing judgment. I'm just not sure this behavior is reflective of this DM's general style.

[Demonslayer666]

It was pretty much our first game, when i confronted him, i basically asked if he used the stats for the correct creature, when he said he did i went a said "Frank there is no need to make it harder, the game should be challenging as is, it's balanced and you already handicapped us by taking all our gear and limiting the resources we can use to 2 books" at that point he goes on saying how we could have done this and that to avoid getting all our gear stolen, even though none of us really had the power to do any of the things he was talking about as a PC die in i think round 3 or 4. And as far as i know this is his first time Dm for 5th edition, he was more of the 2nd edition player. I was trying to tell him it was too hard but it seems like that's what he wants, he wants to make it really hard because it is ravenloft. I just wanted him to stick to the book because he is new at this and no one would have a grasp at whats balanced the first time you do it so i wanted him to stick to the book as close as possible.

Since you are all friends, I would certainly give it a chance over the next several sessions. Make it clear to him that you want an open channel of discussion about the game, and that you want to be able to give feedback. Keep making suggestions on what is fun for you.

As a DM, properly challenging the players is a very difficult skill, one that I will never master.

[intermedial]

In that case, you should simply say thanks for the game and leave. It is unlikely a this person is going to change their game style for you. They have a fixed viewpoint on how the game should work, and no amount of discussion is likely to change it. Rather than cause more friction with a friend and co-worker, it might be best to just avoid the problem entirely by not playing D&D together.

Avoid this situation in the future by asking more questions so you can gauge expectations with your Dungeon Master before the campaign starts.

It's a totally legitimate question to ask a dungeon master during session zero "About how much original material should we expect from you? How often do you create your own creatures and monsters from scratch? Do you have a combat as sport style (i.e. you can expect to face balanced combat encounters most of them time), or a combat as war style (where you cannot expect balanced encounters)?"

[Hrugner]

Coming from other systems to 5e, he probably feels that it's easy since 5e is much more focused on attrition. In previous versions sleeping after every fight or two isn't out of the ordinary, and it can take some time to get used to balance around long and short rests. You can try to help him learn how the new system is balanced, but it's probably better to let him figure it out on his own.

I recommend just bringing a stack of characters to the game and not getting too attached. You'll have more fun playing it like a video game than a table top game until he figures out how to balance everything. Offer to run the next game though.

[Canadiandevil]

Wait... are you still in Death House? This is going to sound condescending but I don't mean it to be. There's a spoiler in the title. It's actually designed to be insanely freaking hard and to probably TPK the party. If everyone actually survives all the way through, you probably got very lucky.

I don't want to spoil anything for you. I will only say this for now. Finish Death House and play a little more of this campaign before passing judgment. I'm just not sure this behavior is reflective of this DM's general style.
Thats what i hear, but he wants to make it harder, but the group isnt going to give up yet, we are gonna keep going until its get really bad and boring, because to me, the fun of being a DM is weaving a story and watching the PC run through it, not just smashing big bad creatures at them trying to kill us.


In that case, you should simply say thanks for the game and leave. It is unlikely a this person is going to change their game style for you. They have a fixed viewpoint on how the game should work, and no amount of discussion is likely to change it. Rather than cause more friction with a friend and co-worker, it might be best to just avoid the problem entirely by not playing D&D together.

Avoid this situation in the future by asking more questions so you can gauge expectations with your Dungeon Master before the campaign starts.

It's a totally legitimate question to ask a dungeon master during session zero "About how much original material should we expect from you? How often do you create your own creatures and monsters from scratch? Do you have a combat as sport style (i.e. you can expect to face balanced combat encounters most of them time), or a combat as war style (where you cannot expect balanced encounters)?"

It's actually the entire group thought that it was a bit hard, but we will see how it goes.


Coming from other systems to 5e, he probably feels that it's easy since 5e is much more focused on attrition. In previous versions sleeping after every fight or two isn't out of the ordinary, and it can take some time to get used to balance around long and short rests. You can try to help him learn how the new system is balanced, but it's probably better to let him figure it out on his own.

I recommend just bringing a stack of characters to the game and not getting too attached. You'll have more fun playing it like a video game than a table top game until he figures out how to balance everything. Offer to run the next game though.

Taking long rest is what we might have to do, but he said there could be random encounters anytime we take a long rest, but thats a good idea to start making a few extra character, might get me some gear since like i said before, he striped us of all our weapons, armor and money

[Torgairon]

as a DM who just started running CoS, the whole piracy as adventure hook has me confused from the first, because your DM had a whole list of adventure hooks that are, mechanically and thematically, better fits for the module than having your party lose a high seas battle. you were then magically transported(?) to death house, the danger of which has apparently been amplified even though it's infamous for killing low-level characters already.

of all the changes and tweaks you could make to CoS, and it's a massive pile of content so there are plenty, making it more deadly across the board is probably one of the worst options. if your DM just wants to run a meatgrinder (and will fly off the handle if you question his design, cringe) tell him to come up with a homebrew campaign and a skeleton setting so the obvious focus of the campaign is at least clear and you're not being distracted by all the interesting possibilities in ravenloft.

[Canadiandevil]

as a DM who just started running CoS, the whole piracy as adventure hook has me confused from the first, because your DM had a whole list of adventure hooks that are, mechanically and thematically, better fits for the module than having your party lose a high seas battle. you were then magically transported(?) to death house, the danger of which has apparently been amplified even though it's infamous for killing low-level characters already.

of all the changes and tweaks you could make to CoS, and it's a massive pile of content so there are plenty, making it more deadly across the board is probably one of the worst options. if your DM just wants to run a meatgrinder (and will fly off the handle if you question his design, cringe) tell him to come up with a homebrew campaign and a skeleton setting so the obvious focus of the campaign is at least clear and you're not being distracted by all the interesting possibilities in ravenloft.

the connection was we were captured and brought to the ravenloft campaign (i forget what the place is called) pretty sure we were captured to be offered to Strahd but then he side tracked that for the death house thing

[tensai_oni]

too bad, ravenloft is for men, not *******

At this point the sensible thing to do is to leave the table and take as many players with you as possible.

The DM made it obvious that he's a jerk who is unwilling to change his playstyle to accomodate his players, who has no respect for his players, and has a "me vs them" attitude which was outdated even when AD&D rolled about.

Cut your losses short and leave. The game will be much more fun with someone more cooperative in the DM role.

[lebefrei]

If you all aren't having fun then approach him as a group with your issues; as a DM myself I am willing to lose players, but if my entire group was also coworkers of mine I'd probably be more flexible than I am on my DM style. I'd probably just cancel that game if no one is having fun though, honestly. We want to DM the way we want to, and we are also trying to have fun. If you don't like his style you might just not mesh with him in a player-DM relationship. As such have a discussion as a full group and see if anyone else wants to DM more along the lines of the way you all want to play.

I don't like fudging rolls, personally, and it's good to know that isn't happening to you. Your DM isn't cheating (I feel that it is one of the things a DM should do on the level, as it allows for accidental failure and that can make things interesting and more "real"), but you are cheating by looking at the module. You shouldn't know he is making things stronger, because your only basis on how strong something is should be from how hard the fight was. Metagaming is considered cheating by almost all DMs, and actually reading through an adventure is about as bad as it gets.

All players not having fun makes playing fairly pointless, though. I find its worse to play a bad game than no game at all; it just leads to resentment and burnout, and we're supposed to be playing a fun hobby, not a chore.

[Canadiandevil]

but you are cheating by looking at the module. You shouldn't know he is making things stronger, because your only basis on how strong something is should be from how hard the fight was. Metagaming is considered cheating by almost all DMs, and actually reading through an adventure is about as bad as it gets.


I didnt really look at the module, i looked at the monster stats, because i was doing a spell that required a wis saving throw, and i found it odd that he wasn't taking anything off, as far as i know, animated armor are not too wise and should have a negative, and sure enough it was suppose to have a -4 thats really where it went off on

[sithlordnergal]

So, I was in a similar situation only with the roles reveresed. I was the DM, and my players thought it was too hard. Personally, I thought it was just hard enough, as they were surviving the encounters. Yes, the ranger went down once every fight...but that was sort of on the player since they were trying to act as a front line tank with 14 ac and ranger hp.

That said, I did lower the difficulty for them since they were having issues with it. While a DM is allowed to set the difficulty level, they need to be open to player input. That said, if you start the Curse of Strahd Hardcover, then you really need to be ready to die. One part of CoS is the fact that death isn't as important, rather you are brought back with gifts and curses.

[MxKit]

At this point the sensible thing to do is to leave the table and take as many players with you as possible.

The DM made it obvious that he's a jerk who is unwilling to change his playstyle to accomodate his players, who has no respect for his players, and has a "me vs them" attitude which was outdated even when AD&D rolled about.

Cut your losses short and leave. The game will be much more fun with someone more cooperative in the DM role.

Yep. The DM immediately jumped to insults, multiple times. The implications in the things he said to you were "you're a ******* if you don't like what I'm doing" and "if you don't enjoy the way I ultra-buff the monsters and try to kill you off, you just want a cakewalk and are too much of a ******* to be able to deal with a challenge."

It's not just that he's the sort of DM who's decided the game is DM vs Players, "I try to kill you all," it's not even that he disagrees with you or refuses to change it when you complain, it's that he gets belligerent and jumps to insulting/mocking.

DMs like that shouldn't be encouraged or rewarded. Either drop the game now, or the next time you're insulted, tell him it's uncalled for and walk out.

[krugaan]

Yep. The DM immediately jumped to insults, multiple times. The implications in the things he said to you were "you're a ******* if you don't like what I'm doing" and "if you don't enjoy the way I ultra-buff the monsters and try to kill you off, you just want a cakewalk and are too much of a ******* to be able to deal with a challenge."

It's not just that he's the sort of DM who's decided the game is DM vs Players, "I try to kill you all," it's not even that he disagrees with you or refuses to change it when you complain, it's that he gets belligerent and jumps to insulting/mocking.

DMs like that shouldn't be encouraged or rewarded. Either drop the game now, or the next time you're insulted, tell him it's uncalled for and walk out.

That's all well and good, but they're IRL coworkers and friends, and that's not going to end well if you just stomp off and drag as many people as you can with you.

Just suggest you guys do something other than play DnD, because the first session sounds like it has soured everyone's attitude towards it.

Go play boardgames, or poker, or whatever, and at a later date suggest trying DnD again. Without that one guy as DM.

[Pex]

When confronted about it, he would go on about how Ravenloft is for men not *******, and that if he feels like a fight is too easy he will make it harder.



That right there is all you need to know. You expressed a concern and not only did the DM dismiss it he insulted you for the audacity of bringing it up. He is a DM who hates his players. He wants to Win D&D. He has all the power. Don't play with him anymore.

[Canadiandevil]

So, I was in a similar situation only with the roles reveresed. I was the DM, and my players thought it was too hard. Personally, I thought it was just hard enough, as they were surviving the encounters. Yes, the ranger went down once every fight...but that was sort of on the player since they were trying to act as a front line tank with 14 ac and ranger hp.

That said, I did lower the difficulty for them since they were having issues with it. While a DM is allowed to set the difficulty level, they need to be open to player input. That said, if you start the Curse of Strahd Hardcover, then you really need to be ready to die. One part of CoS is the fact that death isn't as important, rather you are brought back with gifts and curses.

Im fine with dying, its going to happen as a lot of people said, but if we are gonna pretty much die from every encounter its not gonna be fun, i dont mind him making it harder, but we told him it was too hard and he would just say do you want it to be a cake walk then, there was no in between, problem is too, i think our highest AC was 15 maybe, since he took away all out gear, that't was one of my problem was at lest, if we were fully geared and did that fight, it would have been difficult but not to fair, little bit tipped to the DM advantage, and there would be no complaints, but since most of us didnt have weapons, there was not a lot we could have done, the chunk of damage was all of us thowing him down 3 flights of stairs lol


That's all well and good, but they're IRL coworkers and friends, and that's not going to end well if you just stomp off and drag as many people as you can with you.

Just suggest you guys do something other than play DnD, because the first session sounds like it has soured everyone's attitude towards it.

Go play boardgames, or poker, or whatever, and at a later date suggest trying DnD again. Without that one guy as DM.


We have tried other RPG, such a pathfinder, shadowrun, as well as the Game of Thrones RPG, but everytime he would say how confusing it is, because i think since D&D was his first, he is just stuck on that, aswell as he bring up critical roll a lot, i think its a show or something. Like i want to play, but at this point if he keeps it up, i will just say give me the book i will DM

[krugaan]

We have tried other RPG, such a pathfinder, shadowrun, as well as the Game of Thrones RPG, but everytime he would say how confusing it is, because i think since D&D was his first, he is just stuck on that, aswell as he bring up critical roll a lot, i think its a show or something. Like i want to play, but at this point if he keeps it up, i will just say give me the book i will DM

Tell me if this sounds accurate:

This guy holds grudges. He's a little petty, makes a lot of snide remarks. He doesn't like it when things don't go the way he thinks they should.

Everytime you've tried other RPGs, they all compared to DnD, and, since they're not DnD, they pretty much never got off the ground.

If you try to DM, right now, while the rejection is still fresh, he's going to sabotage the group, as a player. This is just going to happen. He's going to rules lawyer and "well in 2nd edition..." and generally make life very unfun for you, especially since you yourself are new to DnD.

And quite honestly, that's sad. But that's not necessarily a reason to blow up your relationships inside and outside of work.

Just do something else. Have fun doing other things. The pain will fade. If possible, watch more critical role, and read the books, maybe some adventures. Sit in on a few AL sessions. Get more experience, so you can DM and learn how to work with the players, and not against them.

But trying to immediately take over as DM will be met with antagonism, this I promise you.

[Canadiandevil]

Tell me if this sounds accurate:

This guy holds grudges. He's a little petty, makes a lot of snide remarks. He doesn't like it when things don't go the way he thinks they should.

Everytime you've tried other RPGs, they all compared to DnD, and, since they're not DnD, they pretty much never got off the ground.

If you try to DM, right now, while the rejection is still fresh, he's going to sabotage the group, as a player. This is just going to happen. He's going to rules lawyer and "well in 2nd edition..." and generally make life very unfun for you, especially since you yourself are new to DnD.

And quite honestly, that's sad. But that's not necessarily a reason to blow up your relationships inside and outside of work.

Just do something else. Have fun doing other things. The pain will fade. If possible, watch more critical role, and read the books, maybe some adventures. Sit in on a few AL sessions. Get more experience, so you can DM and learn how to work with the players, and not against them.

But trying to immediately take over as DM will be met with antagonism, this I promise you.

Like im new to D&D, i got in around 4th ed, and that was just poopy, so i went to pathfinder, bought a lot of the books, still love it, but i know it can get pretty complicated, and ever since i listend to The Adventure Zone (would 100% recommend, the DM is a great example of a story teller type DM), ive grown to admire D&D 5th ed, and really wanted to give it a try, will give the game a couple more sessions and see if he does actually tone it down a bit

[Vaz]

Play a card game. If he likes lethality, L5R seems like a decent entry into it, while it's still in its infancy. Only costs like $200 for 3 copies of every card in the game, allowing a group of friends to create multiple decks. Split it between you for 40-50 and yoi have a solid base. Plus, you can get mkre competitive in it, and actually work towards the shaping of the story of the setting.

So far, there has been a world tournament which has allowed each clan to choose a particular role (7 clans, choose one roll) which grants particular playstyle and deckbuilding options to that clan. The art is stunning, and very clear concsie rules that you can pick up in a couple of games. Easyish to learn, difficult to master.

Sounds up your guys streets., rewarding skill at playing cards when necessary and managing resources, in addition to deckbuilding.

Just, don't be like me, don't be unicorn.

[Canadiandevil]

Play a card game. If he likes lethality, L5R seems like a decent entry into it, while it's still in its infancy. Only costs like $200 for 3 copies of every card in the game, allowing a group of friends to create multiple decks. Split it between you for 40-50 and yoi have a solid base. Plus, you can get mkre competitive in it, and actually work towards the shaping of the story of the setting.

So far, there has been a world tournament which has allowed each clan to choose a particular role (7 clans, choose one roll) which grants particular playstyle and deckbuilding options to that clan. The art is stunning, and very clear concsie rules that you can pick up in a couple of games. Easyish to learn, difficult to master.

Sounds up your guys streets., rewarding skill at playing cards when necessary and managing resources, in addition to deckbuilding.

Just, don't be like me, don't be unicorn.

you be a god dam unicorn and you own it lol, i will look into it because it does sound interesting, the issue is there is a reason we are using roll20, like half of us don't like leaving their house, i know one of the players kinda likes staying at home because he can do other stuff while playing, like smoke and such, will still look into that game for myself and bring it up, once you said world tournaments you had my attention

[Torgairon]

problem is too, i think our highest AC was 15 maybe, since he took away all out gear

this is the aspect of the situation that I'm seizing on to echo everyone else, wherein you sit this guy down and have THE TALK or just stop playing with him. not only did he buff encounters in a module that has plenty of TPK potential already (and then called you names when you showed signs of deviating from his exact wishes), he made sure to shoehorn in a lame, off-theme naval encounter where you lost - were likely meant to lose - your gear and anything interesting you as a player could have brought into the campaign through your PC's inventory. this is all a transparent attempt to make sure that your character progression is as slow as the DM can possibly make it, where conversely he has shown an interest in scaling the power of the enemies in whatever ways he sees fit. even worse, your metagamed example of the wis modifier on his homebrew animated armor suggests - to me anyway, this here is conjecture - that he just handwaved that stat value entirely at the table, didn't really know the base AA stats and wasn't going to allow you to find a hole in his monster's statblock that you could use to get a leg up.

it all sounds like new DM stuff, really, but then you said he's a 2nd edition vet. if he's battle-tested and all this stuff is coming out, probably better to just gracefully exit.

[Vaz]

you be a god dam unicorn and you own it lol, i will look into it because it does sound interesting, the issue is there is a reason we are using roll20, like half of us don't like leaving their house, i know one of the players kinda likes staying at home because he can do other stuff while playing, like smoke and such, will still look into that game for myself and bring it up, once you said world tournaments you had my attention

Ah no worries. Tabletop Simulator I believe can run it, although i've not looked into it personally.

[GrayDeath]

Most important things have been said already, so let me jsut ask:

What exactly did the group agree upon/talk about before deciding on this adventure?

Did he tell you beforehand it would be a Hard as it can get challenge with many many character deaths and no holds barred"? Did you agree to it?

if yes, ic an at least vaguely understand his point, if not his tone. In that case, see it as a challenge, and do your best, but tell him his tone is out of line.

If not, tell him you are not having fun. if he still talks like above, leave. :smallcool:

[Unoriginal]

You said you could start DMing, but do you have to keep playing with him?

[Canadiandevil]

Most important things have been said already, so let me jsut ask:

What exactly did the group agree upon/talk about before deciding on this adventure?

Did he tell you beforehand it would be a Hard as it can get challenge with many many character deaths and no holds barred"? Did you agree to it?

if yes, ic an at least vaguely understand his point, if not his tone. In that case, see it as a challenge, and do your best, but tell him his tone is out of line.

If not, tell him you are not having fun. if he still talks like above, leave. :smallcool:

He said nothing about pumping up monster till after i asked him about it,


You said you could start DMing, but do you have to keep playing with him?

We wouldnt have too :/

[Unoriginal]

We wouldnt have too :/

Well, I'd say that your group should probably give him one last chance and try to talk it out, and if he still refuses you go play with the rest of the group without him.