Vow of Poverty Optimization (slightly modifeid)

[GrayDeath]

Its me again!


This time however I am asking for a friend who we finally got to palying in our campaign soonish.

He has, after having spent 8 hours with the DM and 3 with me, decided that he LOVES the Vow of Powverty Fluff and will go for a Character with it.
he also decided not to want to go prepared caster (sadly, he hates Druids^^).
(yes, we tried, yes, we failed :(()

He is pretty open otherwise, except for the race (The DM will allow him a homebrewed Human Variant, with regular Human stuff, but 2 free +2`s to 2 different attributes as well as a third feat at Level 1).

He will most likely start at Level 7 or 8.


Given these limitations, what class(es) would you suggest? What builds? Eventually a template (for that LA Buyoff at levels 6, 12 and 18, no matter the Templates total LA, is allowed).

PS:I would prefer something not too complicated, as he is new (the reason why he did not want any prepared casters for example).


Thanks!


Edit: Ooops, forgot. The VoP is modified as follows: He may accept any single magic Item per FULL 10 class Levels if it is A: a gift, B: was produced by anothe rexalted person and C: both the maker and he are of the opinion that he is best able to utilize it (DM will be of medium leniency with this) without breaking his vow, also he will be able to instead of the exalted feats he gets at levels 8, 12 and 16 choose any fighter/CLass Bonus feats (say he plays soemthing with turn undead, he may choose additijnal turn attempts, he plays a magic user, he may choose metamagic feats and so on).

[daremetoidareyo]

animals and companions aren't property, so take creature type trainer from arms and equipment guide, and train yourself some bags of devouring...

[GrayDeath]

Wont work, sadly.

Reason why he does not like druids is he does not like sending animals around (he is very very animal friendly, and would not have fun letting them do his fighting....).

[Nifft]

Work-arounds for VoP:

- Redeemed Symbiotes. Redeem an evil one. Psionic Sinew (from the Fiend Folio) is an example -- it gives you claws, +4 Strength, and +4 Armor like mage armor. Maybe it's not an evil Daelkyr symbiote, but rather a half-living holy relic, like the sinews of a Saint, or the shoelaces of a Titan.

- New Symboites. Invent some that do interesting things. Perhaps a Couatl's ghost needs a home. Perhaps Flumphs must incubate as larva within a [Good] mammal. Perhaps there's a fire symbiote which gives you flaming fists. (I used that last one in a game.) Assign them internal value for WBL tracking as if they were magic items, but they have no in-game value.

- Magical Locations. There are already magic locations that have WBL price suggestions. Give them away. Let the PCs know that these things don't have prices so they are VoP-compatible, but they do have value so the non-VoP characters will have their WBL expectations reduced accordingly.

- Grafts. Redeemed grafts and regular non-evil grafts might be added to the VoP character as gifts. They're not magic items, and they can't be sold, but they do have prices -- but you can claim the prices are the price of service for the creation & installation, not the price of the grafts as items since grafts are not items.

== == ==

You say he hates Druids.

Okay.

What does he like?

[GrayDeath]

Some interesting Suggestions.

Holy Symbiotes seem a good way to go generally.


Well, he has never played with us before, but follwoing my discussion with him he loves the poor Fighter/Monk/Saint Shtick, and beating up others, protecting people, some innate abilities that are not amgic, stuff like this.
More CLassic MonkSaints seem to fascinate him, but well, Monks suck, so I am loathe tu suggest them.

[Nifft]

Unarmed Swordsage 20 <== one of the most Monk-like classes that does not suck


Other unarmed build ideas:

Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Frostrager 5 / ??? 8

Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Bear Warrior 10 / ??? 3

Monk 1 / Psion 19 with the Tashalatora feat (from Secrets of Sarlona)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Best magic item for this: psychoactive skin of proteus, from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#skinofProteus). Make sure it's made with the Words of Creation feat for +1 to its effective manifester level. Then he can do things like this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7XkmnK-DY9Yc2VvUGRzR0I4bU0/view?usp=sharing). As for class, maybe monk 1 or 2/psychic warrior? Have him take the Tashalatora feat, from Secrets of Sarlona.


Prerequisites: Monastic Training (ECS) (psionic class), Autohypnosis 5 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks, ability to manifest 1st level powers

Benefit: Your levels in the psionic class you selected for Monastic Traning stack with your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks, and unarmed damage from the monk class. That way psychic warrior will progress all of that stuff.

He could also take the soulbound weapon ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), from The Mind's Eye. When he needs a weapon for some specialist task, he just calls his weapon up and gives it fun abilities. I'd suggest an elvencraft longbow; it acts as both a composite longbow and a quarterstaff simultaneously, so he can enhance it in all sorts of ways. And if he needs a weapon of a different type, he can always add morphing to turn it into plenty of other things. Like grand pianos and anvils to drop on enemies' heads. Give it the returning property so he can do it over and over again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rMuw4I9dS4

[GrayDeath]

Unarmed Swordsage 20 <== one of the most Monk-like classes that does not suck


Other unarmed build ideas:

Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Frostrager 5 / ??? 8

Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Bear Warrior 10 / ??? 3

Monk 1 / Psion 19 with the Tashalatora feat (from Secrets of Sarlona)


Some itneresting builds, especially the Fist of the Forest might be to his liking. But the Psion might be too much caster for him, being really new. Still, nice ideas.




Best magic item for this: psychoactive skin of proteus, from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#skinofProteus). Make sure it's made with the Words of Creation feat for +1 to its effective manifester level. Then he can do things like this. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7XkmnK-DY9Yc2VvUGRzR0I4bU0/view?usp=sharing) As for class, maybe monk 1 or 2/psychic warrior? Have him take the Tashalatora feat, from Secrets of Sarlona.

That way psychic warrior will progress all of that stuff.

He could also take the soulbound weapon ACF, (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) from The Mind's Eye. When he needs a weapon for some specialist task, he just calls his weapon up and gives it fun abilities. I'd suggest an elvencraft longbow; it acts as both a composite longbow and a quarterstaff simultaneously, so he can enhance it in all sorts of ways. And if he needs a weapon of a different type, he can always add morphing to turn it into plenty of other things. Like grand pianos and anvils to drop on enemies' heads.

The Monk/Psywarr sounds really really good, should have thought of that. Self buffing, monk stuff, maybe with some holy grafts and/or the abovementioned weapon. Gonna suggest it to the DM and our "newb".


Oh btw: Unarmed Sowrdsage was my obvious fallback idea. But there are more fun things for Exalted types, methinks.


Thank you all. :)

[Hecuba]

Wont work, sadly.

Reason why he does not like druids is he does not like sending animals around (he is very very animal friendly, and would not have fun letting them do his fighting....).

If it's just a matter of the if Druid is shot down because of the animal companion and casting, you might see if wild shape ranger will work for him. This allows him to play with animals (which he likes) without the issue of sending pets out to do battle. Wild Shape is potentially as complex as casting (if not more so), but can be simplified dramatically by someone giving you a list of a dozen or so well chosen animals.

If that won't cut it, we need some more details. Some full casters are certainly complex, but there is a big difference between an artificer and a sorcerer with a suggested list.

The the sorcerer side of that is still too complex, then most other alternate power systems will be too. In that case, you're probably looking at a warlock or a non-ToB martial class. I'd suggest the warlock side, as a celestial pact seems a nice thematic dovetail for all those vows he'll be taking.

[eggynack]

Wont work, sadly.

Reason why he does not like druids is he does not like sending animals around (he is very very animal friendly, and would not have fun letting them do his fighting....).
Interesting. Druid could actually still be workable if that's the only issue here. The animal companion and summoning are, presumably, the only sources of animal love problems, with wild shape and normal casting not having this quality. The animal companion kinda solves itself here. Any VoP druid is going to pick up exalted companion (and I do mean any, cause even druids don't have that many exalted feat options), and pretty early at that. Worst case scenario, that'd mean a celestial version of a standard animal, which makes it intelligent. He might have fewer compunctions if the companion is taking on opponents with some awareness of the situation. A better solution, however, would be one of the non-animal options. A blink dog still has dog in the name, but it's as intelligent as the average human (whereas a celestial dog is only slightly better than a regular one), and higher levels provide some more straightforward mythical creatures like the unicorn.

Summoning is maybe a problem though. One can, I suppose, just not summon. It's a reduction in power relative to using that capability, but it's still good, and probably still better than the alternative. Sidhe scholar from dragon 339 is a pretty reasonable replacement for the ability, though it seems a bit evil oriented (which could be changed, if ya want). Child of winter adds some vermin to the list, which could serve as a decent option. But it's also non-good. Weird. Just, like, let the good character summon some vermin or whatever.

[ayvango]

Best magic item for this
Best magic item for a VoP person if he is allowed wit it is an ancestral relic.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Best magic item for a VoP person if he is allowed wit it is an ancestral relic.Which can also be a psychoactive skin. Note that the MIC gives explicit rules for adding additional abilities to preexisting items, with a 50% markup for all but the most expensive abilities. The PSoP is crazy good on its own, has its own special body slot (and thus is not slotless, cutting the cost of adding any slotless abilities in half), and can be upgraded in numerous ways (which can be whatever item abilities you want, basically).

[GrayDeath]

Interesting suggestions, please keep em coming, I wont be able to talk with the new player before the end of the week in any major fashion anyway. :)