Creating a city in the Abyss

[Xavrias]

So, in the latest development in my D&D campaign, my players have traveled to the Abyss to the city of Aztar (based loosely on Zelatar) to follow a couple of different plotlines. One, involving the Warlock's soul who he sold to a Demon Prince, and one with an NPC looking for answers about his sister. I have ideas for both of these storylines, but more importantly, I've been struggling with the creation of the city.

First and foremost, it's simply bigger than the town they've spent the beginning of the campaign in. But, the greater problem is that I'm having a hard time truly imagining what a city in the Abyss would look like. I've found most of the available information on Zelatar as far as locations and some Npcs, which I'll be using a lot of, but there are plenty of other questions.

So, the question here is going to be pretty open-ended and I hope for some interesting responses. What would a merchant city in the Abyss look like? What would the laws be? What kind of businesses are here? Give it your best!

As always, thanks in advance!

[Boggartbae]

I would make it mostly an open marketplace with a lot of floating stalls, and a permanent calm emotions spell to ensure that none of the demons go about slaughtering everyone. Even better, I would have an Archdemon who's portfolio included avarice and greed harbour the city, and staff it with his own demon guards to keep the trade happening. Also, souls should be common currency, and in some places within the city the only currency accepted.

[weckar]

Cities are, by their cohesive and stronger-together nature, a lawful-ish construct.
Thereby, it would make sense that the architecture and rule of the city are decidedly foreign to the place.
Demons would likely be quite scarce (but more common than on the material plane, obviously).

[Helluin]

Even better, I would have an Archdemon who's portfolio included avarice and greed harbour the city, and staff it with his own demon guards to keep the trade happening.

This.
Although I’m more inclined to think that such a city might be maintained and managed by several powerful fiends (not necessarily abyssal lords, but powerful nonetheless) to make things less political, but that’s just my preference. If you decide to go with the archfiend option, these characters can still serve as the advisors and lieutenant of their lord:

An incredibly old night hag (say a night hag sorceress 14) commands considerable power in some part of the city due to her connections with several influential covens and therefore, her control over soul trading.
An arcanaloth mage will have a vested interest in turning his quarter of the city into a trading centre for scrolls, tomes, and magical items. Most transactions would probably occur normally (although the arcanaloth will likely demand an egregious cut from every single merchant, likely driving up the price), that, and the rarest and the most powerful of items are always presented to the arcanaloth before they are even allowed to be circulated on the market.
A well-connected succubus fiend of corruption and her nalfeshnee consort is behind the slave-trading, but they also own the most “friendly” part of the town, a brothel area that welcomes demons, yugoloths, and mortals alike. Behind the pleasant veneer is innumerable damned souls and even their rival demons, mind-raped/geas-bound/pact-bound into prostitution. Even the most sadistic fiends that frequent this place can often find activities to their likings.
In addition to the regular bodyguards, the council might also command a dozen or so Retrievers or similar constructs that can be used as an emergency response team to hunt down any unruly fiends in their city.

As far as other denizens of the city, there should certainly be fiends of every hues (ok, maybe not devils), but I’d also suggest adding some visitors from the Prime or other planes for diversity and flavour - evil creatures like hags, lamia matriarch, drow mages/priestess are good options. Maybe some evil mercanes and perhaps the odd efreeti and such.

Hope that helps :)

[Darth Ultron]

A chaotic city should be a real mess physically: All types of styles of buildings, streets that wind like crazy, lots of dead ends, doors and stairs to no where and such. Even better if the city does move and change it self...either by magic or even just workers endlessly building, re building, and un building everything.

You also get the danger of chaos...fire, floods, earthquakes and such happen often....and there are no first responders/ rescue folks or anything like that....everyone is on their own.

And with evil and chaos, you get real ''dead end streets'' with traps, pits of acid, and other such dangerous things.

As the average citizen will fall for at least a couple traps, hazards, and dangers...as well as just getting attacked....they must be very tough. So they won't be first level commoners or anything like that.

There would be all sorts of business...anything anyone could buy or sell. Though they would change a lot and signs would go up and down in the chaos. Prices won't be set...and change often, and maybe do more barter then by coins. Of course, vile evil business would be on the street and normal.

In a general sense there would be no laws......more like a loose code that is sometimes followed.

[Ashtagon]

First up, everything depends on your definition of Law and Chaos. Everything.

For me, the difference is in whether order manifests in the form of a codified set of laws, and loyalty to social institutions, or whether laws exist on a fiat basis, pay no attention to legal precedents, and loyalty tends more towards "the boss guy" rather than social institutions. Both can be kingdoms. The difference is whether citizens are loyal to "the king, who happens to be called Eric," or "Eric, who happens to have taken the title of king."

Using this as the basis, I would envision a Chaotic city as something akin to the camp-cities of the great khans of the Mongol. Most buildings tend to be temporary structures (which can still look permanent given the highly magical nature of the Outer Planes). It's unlikely to have city walls, as that would require an organised town guard. However, the wilderness outside the city will likely be cleared for a long distance to ensure stealthy approaches are hard. Streets are likely to be wider than normal, and unpaved. Expect most shops to operate on a barter economy. The town guard, if it exists at all, will likely be the personal enforcers of the local big boss rather than actual enforcers of "laws". There may be a single king/mayor-like figure, or a town council, or no recognisable central authority at all.

A lot of this may well be different if a previously-Lawful city has been taken over by a Chaotic overlord. In the context of the Outer Planes however, that doesn't really apply.

[Quarian Rex]

A chaotic city should be a real mess physically: All types of styles of buildings, streets that wind like crazy, lots of dead ends, doors and stairs to no where and such. Even better if the city does move and change it self...either by magic or even just workers endlessly building, re building, and un building everything.

You also get the danger of chaos...fire, floods, earthquakes and such happen often....and there are no first responders/ rescue folks or anything like that....everyone is on their own.


I both agree and disagree with this. While I think that this is a great basis for most abyssal cities/warcamps/etc., I think that it is probably the opposite of what a trade hub would be. Trade means attracting not just the locals, so for this to work on any level it has to be based in a place that doesn't get the full abyssal treatment. Do such places exist? Of course. Even Chaos falls into a semblance of order once in a while, that is the nature of chaos. And no one is going to set up shop in an area where half their inventory could be consumed by a wave of screaming acid at any moment. One thing merchants won't do is lose money.

If you want an inter-dimensional trade hub in the howling chaos of the Abyss then it will have to be within a pocket of relative stability. Otherwise those inter-dimensional merchants would just find someplace else.

[Darth Ultron]

I both agree and disagree with this.

Well, I'm describing a more ''in plane'' trade city.

Sure, for cross plane trade, you can have ''boring'' just like Earth/Prime Plane cities. Like safe zones where nothing bad happens.

But if you go that route, you just have a boring city:

SixTrade is a trade city on the Abyss....it is exactly like Waterdeep/Sharn/Greyhawk/Minits Trith/Tyr/Pantlaius/Specularium, except the Evil Travern has Chaos Beer.

[Calthropstu]

Looks:
Being the Abyss, you can expect every building to be different. But there will be certain things that will be common.

First off, the function of the building will be protection as well as habitation. Expect the walls to be fairly thick. There will mostly be flat rooftops with access portals at the top since many demons fly. If the inhabitant is the kind that doesn't fly, this will not be true but instead will likely be very unwelcoming to flyers.

The entry points will vary in size, seeing how demons and other abyssal residents come in many sizes. The shapes will also vary depending on inhabitant.

Some buildings will have large burrows underground, possibly even interconnecting tunnels. This will mainly be for secret travel, storage or in some cases dwellings.

The biggest baddest demons/residents will have opulent fortresses. These will dwarf surrounding buildings. Keep in mind, only powerful demons would even HAVE living quarters. Most demons live in abject slavery, scheming to take down those they fear (which is pretty much everything)

The lesser demons would be working nonstop all day every day. Breaks would be very infrequent. Attacks on compounds would occur daily, whether it be demonic rivals duking it out, good anti demon crusades, devil attacks, celestial attacks, bebiith attacks. All these and more would occur on a feequent basis. In fact, the city itself would likely be a trap designed to attract such attacks and crush them.

Laws:

Laws would be designed by whoever was in charge and could change on a whim. A "Balor of the month" setup could actually be a thing. I can't imagine any ruler taking control for long given the nature of demons. Nothing short of a demon lord would hold such a city together for any extended period.

So assuming a demon lord at the helm, the laws would depend heavily on that demon lord's fancy. A demon lord succubus, for example, might require all new arrivals to serve for a time in a demonic brothel. A demonic lord of another nature might require long term servitude while others large donations of coin, ritual sacrifice or some other perversion. Getting in would not be a simple matter of walking past gates and bribing guards. Without an invite from a high ranking resident the only way to get in would require damning your soul to the Abyss, or doing something truly unpleasant. Gold likely wouldn't cut it.

As for laws while in the city, "no killing" doesn't sound right for demons. Try more along the lines of "Don't piss off anyone who could kill you." There is a very distinct heirarchy amongst demons. If they can kill you, they outrank you. Most demons will see humans in the Abyss as prey. Unless the PCs bear the mark of a powerful resident, they will be under constant attack.

Residents:

Mostly demons. Run by demons, staffed by demons, the city would be teeming with them. Any mortals would likely be slaves or worse. Few mortals would come to the city willingly, and those who came willingly without having serious power wouldn't last long.

Trade:

Demons have little interest in trade unless it gets them souls. Powerful demonic items would be for sale at a demon market in the city. Getting there would be difficult, but once there this would likely be the one place where attacks would be rare. Merchants dislike losing customers to attacks.

Overall:

Remember the Abyss is the ultimate chaotic evil place. Entering it is generally worse than a death sentence. Survival requires extreme power, or a powerful patron. The more powerful you are, the more powerful response that you will provoke. Even a god could not conquer even the first layer of the Abyss.

My advice, give them a patron demon willing to allow them into the city in return for a service.

[Amon Winterfall]

I think the critical key ingredient is a powerful Demon that decides that he or she wants others around. Demons can bargain for what they want, and here you have something like a Gold or Adamantium vein, or a lake of strong acid--something that makes labor a 'want'. Dretches aren't ever going to serve as slaves, but perhaps a rough system of quotas can extract some wealth. Throw in the obvious opportunistic businesses (bars, brothels, criminal syndicates) and you have a passable city.

Of course, it's a super violent place where everyone has to cover their own back, but Big Demon has decided to kill people because they're stupid, and so brazenly asocial behavior is at least somewhat muted. It wouldn't work as well as other cities, but it's still CE and it's essentially a money making settlement.

[Nifft]

My usual version of Chaos is that chaotic people see the world in terms of individuals and individual rights, not in terms of laws or institutional rights.

So there would be no citizens of the city, no public spaces. It's less of a city as we know it and more like an accumulation of private estates -- somewhat like a gated community, where you might own a portion of the area and then exercise rights based on that ownership.

To be a guest in this city, you'd need a powerful individual's favor or permission, or at least the recognition of at least one such individual. You'd be on someone's privately owned land at all times.

Those who lived under the favor of a specific patron might pattern their buildings & edifices after that patron, so there might be visual cues to help you stay on one patron's estate -- but some beings might enjoy the favor of multiple patrons, or might build in an alien way anyway.

Trade might happen at the estate borders. Again, no law but relationships between individuals. Since the individuals tend to be evil, that means trade might tend to be exploitative.