Help me create Homebrew classes

[supremerulerguy]

Hello, I have been DMing for a year or so now and have created a few homebrew monsters, magic items, and races, but haven't created any classes. I'd like to create a few. In particular, I'd like to create my own version of a Death Knight, a Spellblade(look at 3.5e's Dusk Knight), maybe a necromancer, and some sort of overpowered but frail class with a d4 hit die. Would anybody like to help/does anybody have any homebrews of my ideas already that I can look at for reference?

[Aett_Thorn]

In the "5E Notable Threads" post stickied to the top of the forum page for 5E, there are two links to Homebrew collections. I would start there.

[Ninja_Prawn]

When it comes to homebrew, classes are one of the biggest projects you can take on. In all my years, I've only done two, and one of them is still a work-in-progress. Here is my advice:

A class needs a niche, and a solid thematic underpinning. What does a death knight do that a paladin doesn't (at least the MM version looks like a paladin)? What differentiates your necromancer from a wizard of the necromancy school?
It should be generic enough that at least five or six obvious subclass ideas immediately come to mind. Without seeing any mechanics, 'spellblade' and 'death knight' (and even 'necromancer') sound like subclasses.
A class needs two or three tentpole features to hang its cap on. These are features that govern how the class plays and where it gets its power from. As an example, the rogue's main features are Sneak Attack and Cunning Action. The druid's are Spellcasting and Wildshape. You don't want more than three or less than two of these, most of the time.
Ideally, a class needs to provide the player with something to do in all three 'pillars' of the game (combat, social, exploration). It's okay to focus on two of the three, or handwave it by saying "you have spellcasting; you could pick spells for any pillar if you wanted to."
A class shouldn't have dead levels. Levels where a caster gains new spell levels are the exception.
When designing abilities, remember that active is better than passive. A class made out of always-on buffs (like the champion fighter) is dull and uninspiring, even if it looks 'balanced' by the numbers.
Don't do anything that breaks action economy.
Remember the basics. Things like one strong save (Dex, Con, Wis), one weak save (Str, Int, Cha).

[supremerulerguy]

In the "5E Notable Threads" post stickied to the top of the forum page for 5E, there are two links to Homebrew collections. I would start there.

Thank you, I'll check that out.

[supremerulerguy]

When it comes to homebrew, classes are one of the biggest projects you can take on. In all my years, I've only done two, and one of them is still a work-in-progress. Here is my advice:

A class needs a niche, and a solid thematic underpinning. What does a death knight do that a paladin doesn't (at least the MM version looks like a paladin)? What differentiates your necromancer from a wizard of the necromancy school?
It should be generic enough that at least five or six obvious subclass ideas immediately come to mind. Without seeing any mechanics, 'spellblade' and 'death knight' (and even 'necromancer') sound like subclasses.
A class needs two or three tentpole features to hang its cap on. These are features that govern how the class plays and where it gets its power from. As an example, the rogue's main features are Sneak Attack and Cunning Action. The druid's are Spellcasting and Wildshape. You don't want more than three or less than two of these, most of the time.
Ideally, a class needs to provide the player with something to do in all three 'pillars' of the game (combat, social, exploration). It's okay to focus on two of the three, or handwave it by saying "you have spellcasting; you could pick spells for any pillar if you wanted to."
A class shouldn't have dead levels. Levels where a caster gains new spell levels are the exception.
When designing abilities, remember that active is better than passive. A class made out of always-on buffs (like the champion fighter) is dull and uninspiring, even if it looks 'balanced' by the numbers.
Don't do anything that breaks action economy.
Remember the basics. Things like one strong save (Dex, Con, Wis), one weak save (Str, Int, Cha).

I see your points, I don't have the core mechanics fully mapped out yet, but I have some ideas. I think I'll restrict myself to 2 or maybe 3 subclasses, like there were for most of the classes at the beginning of 5e. When compared to a necromancy wizard, I want my Necromancer to have a less varied spell list but more powerful undead and more variety to their undead. The spellblade will likely be some sort of half-caster, with custom slashing spells like the Dusk Knight from 3.5. I need to make sure they don't just end up being a worse Bladesinger though. I might make the DK a custom Paladin Oath (I haven't looked at the official oathbreaker, so that might actually be what I'm looking for)

[MrStabby]

I think Ninja's rules are pretty good - I would adjust them slightly though.

Action economy can be broken, but it is a very powerful ability. Action surge, for example - very powerful but a flexible and fun ability. Quickened spell metamagic is another (albeit weaker) example. Don't take such things off the table too soon.

The other thing is to be careful about specialisation - again tied to the action economy. The power of a class is dictated by the best thing they can do each turn. As long as the thing that class can do on most turns is better than another class same thing - even if they have less choice, they are still more powerful. For an example of this look at the thoughts of most people on bladelocks vs tomelocks. It doesn't matter how much better a bladelock is at hitting things with a stick if hitting things with a stick is not the best thing to do. Specialisation does impact power - the reduction in options matters - but not always as much as you think.

I would add that there are a few abilities to think of, or classes of abilities: offensive, defensive, and the ability to go further. Giving the right mix of these is important for getting the feel of a class right.

For going further: Things like arcane recovery are obvious examples, likewise metamagic. It is also more broadly things like warlocks agonising blast so that use of limited spells can be spread out or like the divine strike on clerics so that an attack action is useful enough to not feel useless doing something other than casting a spell. Even slightly more subtle is having good concentration spells so that you can have ongoing effects. For melee classes there are often the opposite dynamics - great at will abilities but fewer limited resources.

I would say that every class should have something for a long rest and a short rest. When the party rests a player should not feel they don't get anything for it. This can include Hit dice for a class that tanks or that uses it's hitpoints as a resource.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Action economy can be broken, but it is a very powerful ability. Action surge, for example - very powerful but a flexible and fun ability. Quickened spell metamagic is another (albeit weaker) example. Don't take such things off the table too soon.

My remarks were a bit flippant there... I think we're using the word 'break' in slightly different ways. To clarify: Action Surge and Quicken Spell allow a character to 'break' the rules - at the cost of expending resources. They don't break the game, which is what I was actually meaning.

Features that distort the action economy in a way that does break the game are one of the most common sins you see in homebrewed classes, so it's definitely something that you need to watch out for.

[supremerulerguy]

Update: I think I will be making the Death Knight a paladin subclass, like a modified Oathbreaker. I don't know what its features will be, but it will have a channel divinity that can spawn some sort of undead from something the DK kills, the level 20 feature will also make undead, and Cause Fear and Bestow Curse will be Oath Spells. Also you'll be counted as undead for some things probably, divine smite will deal necrotic damage, and lay on hands might be altered?

Still dunno about spellblade and Necromancer

[Mortis_Elrod]

Update: I think I will be making the Death Knight a paladin subclass, like a modified Oathbreaker. I don't know what its features will be, but it will have a channel divinity that can spawn some sort of undead from something the DK kills, the level 20 feature will also make undead, and Cause Fear and Bestow Curse will be Oath Spells. Also you'll be counted as undead for some things probably, divine smite will deal necrotic damage, and lay on hands might be altered?

Still dunno about spellblade and Necromancer

I think some people jump to classes really fast when subclass would do something better. In that regard look at your ideas and see if you can see any obvious class that could welcome it. Spellblade is very vague for a gish, so see the other gish options and decide if your spellblade will do anything fundamental differently than them (both in theme and mechanics). Necromancy is something very broad but also specific in use. It could vey well be a class or a subclass. Look towards oathbreakers, undying warlocks, necromancer wizards and death and grave clerics. All of them do necromancy a bit different.

Deathknight would fit right into paladin easily though. So start there.


Alot of times people will focus on mechanics for a new subclass or class. I would sugest instead getting your theme and fluff sorted out first. Remember that with a subclass theres already some lore for you to go off of using the class. Does a Death knight have an oath? What are the tenants? what kind of order is it? how do they interact with the world? what are there opinions on other oaths/orders? these are the kind of questions you should ask yourself when doing this.

Mechanics are honestly the easy part.

[JackPhoenix]

Necromancy is something very broad but also specific in use. It could vey well be a class or a subclass. Look towards oathbreakers, undying warlocks, necromancer wizards and death and grave clerics. All of them do necromancy a bit different.

You've named few classes that already have necromantic subclasses... but you know what class is missing, one that usually does something pretty specific? A sorcerer. Subclass that puts some necromancy spells on sorcerer's list, perhaps some new metamagic options... Besides, sorcerers can already burn sorcery points to get more undead by making more slots to Animate Dead with...

[Mortis_Elrod]

You've named few classes that already have necromantic subclasses... but you know what class is missing, one that usually does something pretty specific? A sorcerer. Subclass that puts some necromancy spells on sorcerer's list, perhaps some new metamagic options... Besides, sorcerers can already burn sorcery points to get more undead by making more slots to Animate Dead with...

I mentioned them because they are whats available right now. I would love a necro sorcerer. Necrotic Soul Sorcerer would be very very fun. I also didn't mention Bard. College of Macabre aka the Dirge Singer who drums the beat march the undead.

I think theres room for every class to have an necrotic/undead themed subclass. I think there is also room for a whole class dedicated to different aspects of necromancy, death, souls, undead, curse, decay and disease. Its one of the few things that can be used this way without doing the same thing again and again (if viewed with an open description).

[JNAProductions]

I made the Powerhouse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514814-The-Powerhouse&p=21692988#post21692988) a while ago.