Bone Monk - First Brew

[Gaslampgenie]

After receiving some very constructive advice from aimlessPolymath, I have reworked the structure of this archetype.

Still open to criticism! and if anyone has any suggestions about converting this idea to 5e, I am eventually going to attempt that, so I would be happy to get advice.

-Main idea is a Monk who's monastery's art is osteomancy (or whatever other backstory gets you there). As a result of this almost obsessive focus on the body that is required to drive one to practice and perfect bone shaping, these monks sacrifice a great deal of the focus most monks put on mental perfection. These monks mechanically should have greater physical combat prowess but less flexibility and less mental offense and defense.

Bolded items are brewed and explained beneath the table



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Bone Spur DR


1
+0
+2
+2
+2
Flurry of Blows, Bone Spurs, Unarmed Strike, Bonus Feat, Stunning Fist
-


2
+1
+3
+3
+3
Evasion, Bonus Feat
-


3
+2
+3
+3
+3
Fast Movement, Maneuver Training, Strengthened Core
-


4
+3
+4
+4
+4
Ki Pool (cold iron/silver), Slow Fall 20ft
1


5
+3
+4
+4
+4
High Jump, Purity of Body
1


6
+4
+5
+5
+5
Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 30ft
1


7
+5
+5
+5
+5
Wholeness of Body
2


8
+6/+1
+6
+6
+6
Slow Fall 40ft
2


9
+6/+2
+6
+6
+6
Improved Evasion
2


10
+7/+2
+7
+7
+7
Bonus Feat, Ki Pool (magic), Slow Fall 50ft
3


11
+8/+3
+7
+7
+7
Diamond Body
3


12
+9/+4
+8
+8
+8
Hold Monster, Slow Fall 60ft
3


13
+9/+4
+8
+8
+8
Diamond Soul
4


14
+10/+5
+9
+9
+9
Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 70ft
4


15
+11/+6/+1
+9
+9
+9
Shattering Strike
4


16
+12/+7/+2
+10
+10
+10
Ki Pool (lawful), Slow Fall 80ft
5


17
+13/+7/+3
+10
+10
+10
Timeless Body, Skeletal Attunement
5


18
+13/+8/+3
+11
+11
+11
Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 90ft
5


19
+14/+9/+4
+11
+11
+11
Osteodomination
6


20
+15/+10/+5
+12
+12
+12
Perfect Self, Slow Fall any distance
6







Everything left out remains the same as a regular monk.

Ability/feat replacements by monk level:
3: Still mind is replaced by Strengthened Core

12: Abundant Step is replaced by Hold Monster

15: Quivering Palm is replaced by Shattering Strike

17: Skeletal Attunement is added

Ability/feat explanations:

Bone Spurs - Class Feature. Bone Spurs can be used as offensive and or defensive. Can be extended or retracted as a quick action. Bone Spurs remain out after extending until they are retracted. Can be extended/retracted any number of times per day.
--Offensive bone spurs are some sort or
simple spike, barb, or blade extended
from the hands, feet, elbows, or knees
(knuckle spikes being the most
common). Offensive bone spurs add piercing/slashing to unarmed strikes
--Defensive bone spurs are studs or plates
formed on the body to deflect or soften
blows. They impart a +1 to natural armor
and starting at level 4 add 1
DR/bludgeoning per every 3 monk levels

Strengthened Core - The osteomancer's bones cannot be broken except by arcane sources. Strengthened Core adds a permanent +2 to fortitude saves

Shattering Strike - The osteomancer makes contact with target's skeleton via bone spurs and induces vibrations to shatter the target's skeleton. After a successful attack (with shattering strike declared) the target makes a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 monk lvl + WIS mod) if failed the target dies instantly, if passed target takes 1d6 + WIS mod damage to STR. (Landed attack to initiate save still deals damage of weapon used for attack)

Skeletal Attunement - The osteomancer has permanent Blindsense 30ft on any entity (living or non-living) with a skeleton or other chitinous growth/formation

Osteodomination - The osteomancer takes complete control of the skeletons of one or more targets in the affected area. 50ft radius, Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Monk lvl + WIS mod), if failed target(s) is completely under the control of the osteomancer. Affected targets cannot be made to speak, but can be stopped from speaking.

In addition to the changes above I have altered the Ki Pool abilities and added a new feat that can be learned:

Ki Pool abilities
- Using 1 Ki point for an additional attack at highest BAB has been removed

- After a successful attack while offensive bone spurs are active, a Ki point can be expended as a quick action to cause bleeding dealing bleeding damage equal to unarmed damage of a monk, one size smaller, at the same level added

Malaise the Bones - This feat gives the osteomancer additional modes for Stunning Fist. Only one mode of Stunning Fist can be used per attack. The choice of Stunning Fist mode must be announced before the attack is made.The osteomancer makes contact with target's skeleton via bone spurs to temporarily alter the composition of the target's marrow. This feat becomes available at level 6. The following modes are granted by this feat:
- Stunned for 1 round and sickened for 1d3 rounds.
- At level 13: Stunned for 1 round, exhaustion 1


I would like to make this a balanced class that I could potentially use again or inspire someone else with.
Welcoming advice!
Thanks!

[aimlessPolymath]

Well, let's look at what you trade out.

Bone Spurs vs. Stunning Fist:
Stunning fist is a moderately versatile tool that lets you effectively disable enemies. It gets traded for... some attack/AC bonuses? The numerical bonuses are nice, but not particularly meaningful compared to normal

Strengthened Core vs. Still Mind is a downgrade IMO, but not a huge one.

Shattering Strike is just a less versatile Quivering Palm.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon for a +5 natural armor bonus is a numbers upgrade for a loss of versatility. In general, I'm opposed to this kind of change.

Osteodomination swaps out for Empty Body, which is fine, I guess.

Feats are incredibly OP without any sort of usage limits, action costs, or anything. Malaise The Bones is strictly better than Stunning fist since you don't need to declare beforehand.


What I would do:
Stunning Fist comes back in, Bone Spurs is changed into a modification of class features:
-Using your bone spurs, you can make your unarmed strikes deal slashing/piercing damage at will. This is a freebie.
-Your AC bonus from Wisdom/class levels is now a natural armor bonus.

The "cannot be broken" clause of Adamantine Bones is rolled into Strengthened Core.

To differentiate it, Shattering Strike now deals Strength damage on a successful save. Now it's less versatile than Quivering Palm, but more reliable.

Let's make some lower level changes- I'd swap out Abundant Step so you get Hold Monster instead, and maybe swap Improved Evasion for something, too.

Adamantine Bones is removed completely (moved to new Bone Spurs), and instead you get... some other 3rd-ish level spell continuously. Maybe you can use Blood Biography, but with bones? Maybe you can telekinetically animate skeletons? Maybe blindsense 30 ft, against creatures with skeletons only? Something that isn't just numbers.

[Gaslampgenie]

Awesome! This is what I'm looking for!
My main logic behind the hit bonus with the spurs was to match the flavor of a Monk who is more concerned with physical prowess and plays a little better in combat as a result. If I drop the hit bonus and use the model you are suggesting for the spurs would allowing them to inflict bleeding after say 6th level be too much?
Regarding the feats, they are absolutely overpowered the way they are written. I had intended to limit the uses per day to wisdom modifier OR use Ki expenditure but totally forgot to write that in. Malaise the Bones was also originally intended to be used like stunning fist where it has to be declared in advance.

Like the suggestion for adamantine bones.
Flavor of the class is to sacrifice mental for physical, potential suggestions for a better swap for Tongue of the sun and moon?

Thank you!

[aimlessPolymath]

I would rate Stunning Fist far, far above raw numbers, especially the existing values for Bone Spurs. Especially in combat. The ability to shut down specific enemies for a round or two is extremely valuable, and later upgrades (especially at 12th level) make it useful against a variety of foes.

Inflicting bleed would be fine.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "more concerned with physical prowess" relating to being better in combat. The monk, as it is, is almost entirely a combat-focused class. Practically no class features do things other than fight, and those that do are very weak and specific (slow fall, tongue of the sun and moon, arguably quivering palm but there are few reasons to use it). Most of its utility options are inside subclasses.

Inflicting bleed damage is probably fine, depending on the damage values (note that bleed damage does not stack, so 1v1 it can roughly be estimated as a direct addition to DPR). What would you lose for it?

The feats are blatantly overpowered as-is; they have no prerequisites, and even at 1/day, are significantly better than other options available at the same level. (Well, seize the core is. Malaise the bones is less overpowered, and is really comparable to stunning fist, mostly. I could see it as an alternate mode for Stunning Fist. ).

[Gaslampgenie]

For bleeding:
Was thinking expenditure of Ki point on successful hit as quick action or, alternatively declaring bleeding attack and taking -1 penalty to hit (or something to that effect)... in terms of damage for bleeding something like 2 die faces smaller than unarmed damage work? (i.e. if unarmed damage is 1d8 then bleeding damage would be 1d6)

I would add that this monk has no proficiency with any weapons (other than bone spurs and unarmed) and cannot gain any

I'll probably just nix Seize the Core

As far as malaise the bones goes, would it be too far out there to make them stunning fist modes that are trainable as feats? Meaning that you would expend a feat to gain access to one or two new options as selectable effects for stunning fist (only one effect is used at a time and declared before attack) similar in power level but offering a greater range of options. (hopefully that makes sense)

[aimlessPolymath]

Loss of other weapons is not a huge downside except in very early levels. When would you want to use something else, except to bypass some forms of DR, anyway? Bone spurs cover most forms of DR except for material-related ones (and I just noticed that instead of Ki Pool(adamantine), you give Ki Pool(alignment). What does this change represent, given that you already have Ki Pool(lawful)? Also, you lose Ki Pool(cold iron & silver) without any benefit. Is this intentional?). Ranged weapons? Just run up and hit them.

On bleed: That sounds fine as a downside (particularly ki expenditure), but what do you give up in exchange compared to monk? I suggest giving up the ability to use ki to make an extra attack, personally, as the exchange makes a certain amount of intuitive sense (damage for damage).

Malaise as a feat that grants an alternative mode of Stunning Fist sounds fine.

[Gaslampgenie]

Like the trade of bleeding attack for extra attack in Ki abilities
See your point that the inability to use other weapons may be uneccessary. Perhaps a model like this for DR bypass:
Lawful -> cold iron/silver
Alignment -> arcane
Not sure how important having access to lawful attacks will be because I've only reached level 6 in a campaign.

[aimlessPolymath]

I'm pretty sure the default monk's advancement (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/Monk/#TOC-Ki-Pool-Su-) for Ki Strike is fine, actually. I'm just confused that it was changed without any reason why.

[Gaslampgenie]

So, that may have been a result of using "unchained monk" instead of the default pathfinder monk. Supposedly it makes the monk more balanced and easier to pick up but it might have changed that progression (although there's a chance I just completely missed it by accident)

[Gaslampgenie]

Post updated from discussion! Still open to constructive criticism. Thank you, aimlessPolymath

[nikkoli]

Strengthened Core - The osteomancer's bones cannot be broken except by arcane sources. Strengthened Core adds a permanent +2 to fortitude saves



If you wanted to get picky over this the god of might could not break your bones, but a wizard could snap them in two.

Also you say quick action a few times, that's meant to be Swift action right?

[Gaslampgenie]

Yes, I did mean to say swift action, thank you. Any suggestions to better match what I'm looking for with that unbreakable ability? Nigh unbreakable is the goal.

[nikkoli]

To make it difficult but reasonable should it ever come up make the break dc for a strength check against their bones increase by their level. Or that be some amount of DR/-.