Unusual Wu Jen Build help request

[Khedrac]

Sometime soon one of my gaming groups should be returning to an existing campaign which is subject to a number of setting-based limitations (yes, I know there's a thread about that), however apparently there are further complications (which are probably what the campaign will be about to a fair degree) so the DM has warned me not to play my existing character and I am trying to build a new one.

First off, the campaign is set in the Hollow World of Mystara, therefore:
No extra-planar access (so no teleport and no summoning).
It is also 28 point buy, no BoED or BoVD, and no campaign-world specific books (i.e. no Ebberon or Forgotten Realms).
And the current character level is 18 so I need to build at 18 and plan for into low epic.

Secondly, someone (or thing) has blocked all sorceror/wizard spells of 4th level or higher (except for dispel magic, greater).
This one is a little complex, if a class has the spell on their spell list below 4th level then it still works for them (e.g. remove curse can be cast by clerics as a 3rd level spell but not by wizards at 4th level), however if the spell is 4th or higher level for the other class (e.g. spellthief) then they cannot cast it either.

So, I was thinking about how to make Wu Jen more viable and came up with the idea of an Ultimate Magus build, probably with sorceror (I am playing a beguiler in another campaign) as the other half, using the higher-level sorceror slots to fuel metamagic.

Entry would be WJ 4/S 1 wtih Practised Spellcaster on the sorceror to get 2 of the UM's 3 1-sided levels to boost WJ.
The first question is "what class to aim for once I have hit UM 10?"
I thought about aiming for Archmage (for the Mastery of Elements), but I don't think it is really worth the entry cost.

The next question is really which feats to take (mainly metamagic I think) and which spell secrets to take (I am thinking enlarge spell on entangling scarf for the first one).

Also what race? Human looks to be the best option, though I am currently thinking Aventi (from Stormwrack) because it is a fairly aquatic campaign. Also we do use multi-classing penalties so it needs to be a human-typle race or have WJ as favored class (unless someone comes up with a better way of doing it).

So, any suggestions ideas or helpful comments?

[Darrin]

First off, the campaign is set in the Hollow World of Mystara, therefore:
No extra-planar access (so no teleport and no summoning).


I am not aware of any reason why Mystara is cut off from the standard planar cosmology. I assume this some sort of "setting-based limitation" that the DM has imposed for plot reasons. However, if extra-planar travel is cut off, then I'm not sure why [teleport] effects wouldn't work? Teleporting on the same plane doesn't really involve planar travel.



It is also 28 point buy, no BoED or BoVD, and no campaign-world specific books (i.e. no Ebberon or Forgotten Realms).
And the current character level is 18 so I need to build at 18 and plan for into low epic.

Secondly, someone (or thing) has blocked all sorceror/wizard spells of 4th level or higher (except for dispel magic, greater).


Ah. Wu Jen 6/Rainbow Servant 10/Sacred Exorcist 2. Fill your higher-level Wu Jen slots with cleric spells.



So, I was thinking about how to make Wu Jen more viable and came up with the idea of an Ultimate Magus build, probably with sorceror (I am playing a beguiler in another campaign) as the other half, using the higher-level sorceror slots to fuel metamagic.

Entry would be WJ 4/S 1 wtih Practised Spellcaster on the sorceror to get 2 of the UM's 3 1-sided levels to boost WJ.
The first question is "what class to aim for once I have hit UM 10?"
I thought about aiming for Archmage (for the Mastery of Elements), but I don't think it is really worth the entry cost.


I like Archmage, particularly because if you can't use your higher-level slots to cast higher-level spells, then you might as well trade those slots in for something useful. As far as entry costs go... three feats, which stings a bit if you're also trying to load up on Metamagic feats.

Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion) might be good for your last five levels.



The next question is really which feats to take (mainly metamagic I think) and which spell secrets to take (I am thinking enlarge spell on entangling scarf for the first one).


I'm fond of Shape Spell. But if your higher-level slots are going to be full of low-level spells, then might as well go for the biggies: Quicken Spell and Persist Spell. Chain Spell and Twin Spell might be worth a look as well.



Also what race? Human looks to be the best option, though I am currently thinking Aventi (from Stormwrack) because it is a fairly aquatic campaign. Also we do use multi-classing penalties so it needs to be a human-typle race or have WJ as favored class (unless someone comes up with a better way of doing it).


Well, the big question with race is usually "Do I need the bonus feat?" And it sounds like yes, you need metamagic feats so you need the bonus feat. So the next question would probably be Vanilla Human or Silverbrow Human? I'm not sure you have much room for any of the dragonblooded feats, so Vanilla is probably the best choice. As far as multiclass penalties go, anything with Sorcerer as a favored class should work with your proposed build.

I would recommend against Aventi, because they lose the human bonus feat. If you want a water-breathing human, then take the Aquatic Human from Unearthed Arcana and add the Amphibious template (Stormwrack). This allows you to breath normally both in and out of water, keeps the 30' swim speed and low-light vision from UA, and keeps the human bonus feat. All it costs you is -2 Dex, which you can work around.

Is the Magic-Blooded template (Dragon #306) available? That might open up some other races.

[weckar]

Well, the big question with race is usually "Do I need the bonus feat?" And it sounds like yes, you need metamagic feats so you need the bonus feat. So the next question would probably be Vanilla Human or Silverbrow Human? I'm not sure you have much room for any of the dragonblooded feats, so Vanilla is probably the best choice.
Let's not forget about the humble Azurin. They can make a single feat investment go a much much longer way.

[Darrin]

Let's not forget about the humble Azurin. They can make a single feat investment go a much much longer way.

I didn't forget, but their favored class is the much-reviled Soulborn, which would incur multiclass penalties. Hence why I asked about the Magic-Blooded template, which would switch their favored class to Sorcerer.

[weckar]

Right, sorry, missed the fact that this group actually does MCPs.

[Khedrac]

I am not aware of any reason why Mystara is cut off from the standard planar cosmology. I assume this some sort of "setting-based limitation" that the DM has imposed for plot reasons. However, if extra-planar travel is cut off, then I'm not sure why [teleport] effects wouldn't work? Teleporting on the same plane doesn't really involve planar travel.
Mystara itself is not, the Hollow World however is - it's a side effect of the World Shield. The DM has greatly reduced the magic knoweldge restrictions from the original.


Ah. Wu Jen 6/Rainbow Servant 10/Sacred Exorcist 2. Fill your higher-level Wu Jen slots with cleric spells.
Yes, that is definitely worth a look, especially if we end up without a cleric (it depends on what one of the other player's whose character may not return ends up doing). It also reinforces what I was thinking about ditching the Ultimate Magus and just going Wu Jen + prestige classes.


Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion) might be good for your last five levels.
Not something that had even remotely occured to me! Very nice suggestion, it would probably re-fluff to the Lighthouse organisation as well. :smallbiggrin:


I'm fond of Shape Spell. But if your higher-level slots are going to be full of low-level spells, then might as well go for the biggies: Quicken Spell and Persist Spell. Chain Spell and Twin Spell might be worth a look as well.
Agreed, persisted shield looks worth checking if it is legal. The big twist with things like that is checking if the Wu Jen gets the spells to make decent use.


...Other good suggestions...
Those are exactly the sort of though-provoking helpful suggestions I was after. You have given me a nice number of things to think about and discuss with my DM.
:smallbiggrin:


Let's not forget about the humble Azurin. They can make a single feat investment go a much much longer way.
Actually that's not a bad idea. If I am not taking more than one base class who cares what the favored class is?

Thank-you both.
:smallcool: