Gug-Gug Barbarian 6/Fighter 6/Rogue 8 Character Build

[Amano666]

Hello Giants!

Here is a multi-classed character build that I have been playing. I was hoping to get some advice on optimization and suggestions for mechanical improvements. Any criticisms or evaluations are more than welcome. My inspiration came from recently reading Robert E. Howard's books and wanted to make a "Conan" style barbarian. This is a multi-class character that hopefully would be useful at all levels from 1-20 growing in power with each level rather than a build that comes "online" at a certain level. I think that the character gets the maximum benefit from each class taken. I have played this up to level 9 so far and am having a blast so wanted to share.

Pros: Tanking, Damage, Resilience
Weakness: Mental Saves, Social Interaction, no sneak attack with great sword


V. Human (+1 CON, +1 STR), Feat: Resilience (DEX)
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Stealth, Survival
(Vuman= Perception, Barbarian = Athletics, Survival, Background = Acrobatics, Stealth)
Saves: STR, CON, DEX
Point Buy:
STR 15 (+1) 16
DEX 15 (+1) 16
CON 15 (+1) 16
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 8
Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 6, Battle Master Fighter 6, Thief Rogue 8
1: (Barbarian 1) Unarmored defense, Rage
2: (Barbarian 2) Reckless Attack, Danger Sense
3: (Barbarian 3) Ancestral Protectors
4: (Barbarian 4) Feat: Great Weapon Master
5: (Barbarian 5) Extra Attack, Fast Movement
6: (Barbarian 6) Spirit Shield (2d6)
7: (Fighter 1) Great Weapon Fighting Style, Second Wind
8: (Fighter 2) Action Surge
9: (Fighter 3) Battle Master (Feinting, Precision, Lunging)
10: (Fighter 4) ASI +2 STR (18)
11: (Fighter 5)
12: (Fighter 6) ASI +2 STR (20)
13: (Rogue 1) Expertise (Athletics, Perception), Sneak Attack
14: (Rogue 2) Cunning Action
15: (Rogue 3) Thief Archetype, Fast Hands, Second Story Work
16: (Rogue 4) ASI +2 CON (18)
17: (Rogue 5) Uncanny Dodge,
18: (Rogue 6) Expertise (Acrobatics, Stealth)
19: (Rogue 7) Evasion
20: (Rogue 8) ASI +2 CON (20)

FINAL:
HD: 6x1d12, 6x1d10, 8x1d8
HP: 15(Bar12+3)+50 (Bar7+3)+54(Ftr6+3)+24(Rog5+3)+36(Rog5+4)+10(Rog5+ 5) = 189 - 262 (max)
AC: 10+3+5 = 18 unarmored (+1 Ring of Protection?, +2 Bracers of Defense?, +2 Animated Shield?)
STR: 20, DEX, 16, CON 20, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 8
Saving Throws: STR +11, DEX + 9, CON +11, INT -1, WIS -1, CHA -1
Attack bonus: +11
Skills: Acrobatics +15, Athletics +17, Perception +11, Stealth +15, Survival +5

Build Ideas: Could drop initial dex to 14, put spare points into Cha?or Wis?, take GWM feat at first level.

Let me know what I messed up :)

Thanks and I hope someone finds this useful.

[Aett_Thorn]

Why Resilient (Dex)? As a Barbarian, you're going to get Advantage on Dex saving throws that you can see, which is most things that require a Dex saving throw. I would say it would be better to go GWM as a starting feat, and then drop Fighter to only 4. Fighter 5 gives you nothing, and Fighter 6 only gives you another ASI/Feat, which you pick up from going GWM at level 1 anyways.

This will free up two more levels for either Barb or Rogue.

Also, if you're going to go GWM, why go Rogue? I get that some of the class features are good, but you won't be able to make use of Sneak Attack at all.

[Talamare]

I rather have Resilient (Wis)

Also, Swash instead of Thief, or Assassin instead of Thief

[Crgaston]

Resilient Wis would be more helpful.

I’d ditch the GW fighting style for TWF or Archery. With the +2 of Archery, you hit like your Dex is 4 points higher, and your SA damage will work. Likewise, with 2 scimitars, Reckless and SA you’d be a Blender of Death. So some added versatility.

As for Rogue archetype, have a look at Scout from Xanathars. Great skirmishing ability and 2 extra expertises that really support your flavor.

Going F4/R10 would get you the same ASIs.

[LeonBH]

Barbarian 8/Fighter 4/Rogue 8 is superior to this.

Fighter 5 is a dead level due to you already getting Extra Attack from the Barbarian. Meanwhile, Fighter 6 grants an ASI/Feat. However, you will have that same ASI/Feat with Barbarian 8.

By going Barbarian 8/Fighter 4/Rogue 8, you will always get the 7th level Barbarian feature (advantage on initiative, cannot be surprised anymore), replacing the dead level of Fighter 5.

Alternatively, you can go Barbarian 4/Fighter 8/Rogue 8, but this doesn't just remove the dead level of Barbarian 5 (due to already getting Extra Attack at Fighter 5). This replaces Spirit Shield with Know Your Enemy (a downgrade). It does replace your dead level with an ASI/Feat, though (an upgrade).

[Talamare]

What about straight up just dropping Fighter and GWM

and just... using a Rapier. So that you get Sneak Attacks

[Aett_Thorn]

What about straight up just dropping Fighter and GWM

and just... using a Rapier. So that you get Sneak Attacks

Well, if the OP is anything like me, the idea of using a Rapier with Str just makes so little sense from a practical standpoint that I find it hard to do, even if it is mechanically better.

A Scimitar or Short Sword would still work, and makes a little more thematic sense.

[The_Jette]

I gotta agree with LeonBH. Fighter 4/ Barbarian 8 or Fighter 8 Barbarian 4 would be better, since their abilities are a little redundant. Gaining the Archetype abilities is more useful for your build. Also, if you're going to have more points in Fighter than in Barbarian then you're going to get Remarkable Athlete, which gives you half your Proficiency bonus to any physical test that you don't get it to. So, taking Resiliency is even worse, as you are only really giving yourself an increase of half your Prof bonus over what you'd eventually get anyways. That's just my two cents. It seems like a good other than that. Though, I genuinely don't understand the point of taking Rogue if you can't take advantage of their Sneak Attack damage.

[Crgaston]

What about straight up just dropping Fighter and GWM

and just... using a Rapier. So that you get Sneak Attacks


Well, if the OP is anything like me, the idea of using a Rapier with Str just makes so little sense from a practical standpoint that I find it hard to do, even if it is mechanically better.

A Scimitar or Short Sword would still work, and makes a little more thematic sense.

I’m with Aett here. I refuse to use rapiers on any character who isn’t a pansy high elf. :)

Plus, OP said his inspiration was Conan. So there’s that.

[Crgaston]

I genuinely don't understand the point of taking Rogue if you can't take advantage of their Sneak Attack damage.

4-6 expertises, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are pretty spectacular on a melee powerhouse. And SA will always be there when you can’t GWM for whatever reason.

[Lombra]

If these classes are essential to you then I'd just go rogue 1/fighter 3(4 if you really need the ASI)/barbarian 16.

Start with 5 levels of barbarian to reach extra attack ASAP, pick one level of rogue to round up your skills (expertise stealth and athletics? Maybe perception?), then head for the fighter's subclass feature (battlemaster seems more fun), then keep being a barbarian.

As far as feats you only need great weapon master, you want to pump strength, con and dex as much as you can.

I'd also start with a 14 in dex to up wis a bit, it's a common save and it's the bane of barbarians.

Alternatively you can drop the whole barbarian thing and play a fighter/rogue, fluffed as a barbarian, maybe with a dip in barbarian for shirtless fighting.

[Spacehamster]

Would probably go 12 barb 4 champion 4 assassin if I wanted to go GWM style, that way you will be critting a lot and hard and sometimes when the stars align you will get auto crits too on surprise rounds. :) is V human a must cus half orc would prob be quite a lot stronger. :)

[Aett_Thorn]

Would probably go 12 barb 4 champion 4 assassin if I wanted to go GWM style, that way you will be critting a lot and hard and sometimes when the stars align you will get auto crits too on surprise rounds. :) is V human a must cus half orc would prob be quite a lot stronger. :)

Or a Goliath.

[Talamare]

I’m with Aett here. I refuse to use rapiers on any character who isn’t a pansy high elf. :)

Plus, OP said his inspiration was Conan. So there’s that.

Conan mainly used a Sword.
In DnD a Rapier is literally a Sword with a different name.

So it's all in your perception, don't blame Conan.


Would probably go 12 barb 4 champion 4 assassin if I wanted to go GWM style, that way you will be critting a lot and hard and sometimes when the stars align you will get auto crits too on surprise rounds. :) is V human a must cus half orc would prob be quite a lot stronger. :)

7 level of Rogues is essential

[Aett_Thorn]

Conan mainly used a Sword.
In DnD a Rapier is literally a Sword with a different name.

So it's all in your perception, don't blame Conan.



7 level of Rogues is essential


During his reign as king of Aquilonia, Conan was

... a tall man, mightily shouldered and deep of chest, with a massive corded neck and heavily muscled limbs. He was clad in silk and velvet, with the royal lions of Aquilonia worked in gold upon his rich jupon, and the crown of Aquilonia shone on his square-cut black mane; but the great sword at his side seemed more natural to him than the regal accoutrements.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would consider a rapier to be equivalent to a great sword.

A rapier, despite the relative lack of descriptions of weapons in this edition, is still a very thin sword mainly used to poke enemies (hence the piercing damage). Meanwhile, Conan uses a great big swinging sword mainly. There's just no way to logically refluff that.

[Spacehamster]

Conan mainly used a Sword.
In DnD a Rapier is literally a Sword with a different name.

So it's all in your perception, don't blame Conan.



7 level of Rogues is essential

Afb atm but what does rogue 7 give that is so important? :)

[Talamare]

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would consider a rapier to be equivalent to a great sword.

A rapier, despite the relative lack of descriptions of weapons in this edition, is still a very thin sword mainly used to poke enemies (hence the piercing damage). Meanwhile, Conan uses a great big swinging sword mainly. There's just no way to logically refluff that.

The Great in Great Sword doesn't need to mean Large, it can mean amazing.
Conan is frequently pictured in the classic works using his Sword with a Shield
Conan is frequently pictured in the classic works using daggers

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Weird_tales_dec1932.jpg
Oh look at that



Afb atm but what does rogue 7 give that is so important? :)

Evasion

[Aett_Thorn]

Afb atm but what does rogue 7 give that is so important? :)

Evasion.

Though if you don't get it until level 18-19 or so, it becomes much less essential.

[Lombra]

Afb atm but what does rogue 7 give that is so important? :)

Evasion.

Post were too short so I added this phrase.

[Talamare]

Evasion.

Though if you don't get it until level 18-19 or so, it becomes much less essential.

Agreed, this guy's level up sequence isn't optimal

Something like

1: (Barbarian 1) Unarmored defense, Rage
2: (Barbarian 2) Reckless Attack, Danger Sense
3: (Barbarian 3) Ancestral Protectors
4: (Barbarian 4) ASI +2 STR
5: (Barbarian 5) Extra Attack, Fast Movement
6: (Rogue 1) Expertise (Athletics, Perception), Sneak Attack
7: (Rogue 2) Cunning Action
8: (Rogue 3) Rogue Archetype
9: (Rogue 4) ASI
10: (Rogue 5) Uncanny Dodge,
11 (Rogue 6) Expertise (Acrobatics, Stealth)
12: (Rogue 7) Evasion
13: (Rogue 8) ASI
14: (Barbarian 6) Spirit Shield (2d6)

Seems more reasonable

[Aett_Thorn]

Certainly, some of the older takes on Conan had him using a lot of different weapons. But when someone says to me that they want to play a "Conan-inspired" character, I never picture them wanting someone using a rapier.

[CircleOfTheRock]

The Great in Great Sword doesn't need to mean Large, it can mean amazing.
Conan is frequently pictured in the classic works using his Sword with a Shield
Conan is frequently pictured in the classic works using daggers
(As to the last two sentences.) Yes, but of course he is; he grabbed whatever was handy at the time. But, ultimately, he preferred (or so it implicates in the text Aett posted above) a greatsword.

[Amano666]

Thanks for all the replies so far! Gives me a lot to think about!

I will try to provide justification for some of the choices I made in the original build. In no way am I arguing that the other suggestions are lacking in any way, just sharing my assumptions and what I was going for.

1st level feat choice:

Resilient Dex was taken to improve dexterity saves without investing more points in it, without it dex saves would stay at +3 as opposed to eventually getting to +9. The +3 is not that bad especially with getting advantage on most dex saves from the barbarian class feature Danger Sense. If I didn't take that feat I would leave dex at 14 and put two points into... probably wisdom to eliminate the -1. Is that worth +1 point of AC, +1 dex save, and +1 to initiative (also rogue stuff later on works nice with higher dex?)? Although, it is a little less efficient to have 16 dex if wearing medium armor without the mastery feat. Without the bear totem ability to resist all damage except for psychic when raging I wanted a little more assurance that most of the time I would make the save for half damage even with increasing DC, it also is nice to have that higher dex save when evasion eventually kicks in at high level.

Switching it out to resilient wis is an interesting option that shores up a weak save.
Taking GWM at first level is also totally viable and would allow faster improvement of STR or CON

I will have to give some more thought/analysis to this.

Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue class level:

I wanted to first take 6 levels in barbarian for two reasons. First I wanted to get to level 5 barbarian and get two attacks asap, second I wanted the level 6 class feature of ancestral barbarian, Spirit Shield. With the Ancestral Protectors and Spirit Shield coming online early the character has mechanics to assist in tanking duties almost right away. It also builds up a good base of hit points to support survival of the character during the swingy first levels.

After the characters extensive experience and training as a barbarian I can see some good RP hooks for the character beginning to refine his combat prowess as he learns the ways that "civilized" folks fight (fighter levels).

The fighting style, action surge, second wind and battle master goodies are all online by level 9 (fighter 3), this feels like the biggest jump in damage for the character. The two extra fighter levels beyond 4 are probably a waste but I wanted to give the character the same number of ASI/Feats as a non multi-classed character by level 12. However, I totally agree that taking level 7 in barbarian is superior, Feral Instinct is too good to pass up. Thanks a million for that idea. I would probably go 6 barbarian then 4 fighter, then two more barbarian for 8 barb/4 fighter by 12th level and the same feats with slightly more HP. The synergy of GWM feat and the great weapon fighting style has been impressive at our table and has made the character a lot of fun (big numbers = fun for me I guess). Going archery, or dueling for a sword and board build also seems solid and probably better with rogue levels, although a little bit of a different character feel but very viable. The rogue levels don't even come into play till 13th level, hard to wait that long doing less damage with an inferior weapon just because "someday" I will be sneak attacking. Not having a spectacular ranged attack is a build weakness too that archery style would help with a lot.

The rogue levels is where I think the character develops some depth and expands versatility while also improving combat. The character has more to do for the party outside of combat and more options while in combat.

A lot of campaigns I have played in don't go much beyond 12th. The rogue levels are like "gravy", nice to have and improves the build but they may not see the light of day often.

Can't sneak attack with a great sword, but with Fast Hands at Thief 3 you can interact with an object as a bonus action, does this mean I could potentially attack with a scimitar and get sneak damage then switch weapons and regular attack with a great sword? Not sure about how this mechanic works honestly. The jumping and climbing stuff from Second Story Work combined with the 40 foot movement seemed tasty to me too.

I considered swashbuckler but with a charisma score of 8 it would not benefit my initiative without some investment. I like the Scout vibe for a barbarian rogue, but my reactions are usually used up by Spirit Shield. Assassin rogue "Assassinate" advantage is nice but with Reckless Attack I felt it could be a little redundant.

I like the rogue ability to disengage because it would allow marking one enemy with ancestral protectors and fighting another while still having the original enemy weakened and not having to eat a attack of opportunity to do so.

The expertise is pretty self explanatory. I am not sure how Uncanny dodge would work with the Barbarian rage damage reduction, if they both apply then it is really good, if it is one or the other then its less useful.

[The_Jette]

You could rely on ranged Sneak Attack to deal a decent amount of extra damage to enemies that are engaging anyone in your party, rather than you. Since you can sneak attack someone with a ranged weapon as long as they're next to someone in your party, you'd be able to shoot and move, then maybe Cunning Action to Dash to get closer. This is assuming that they're out of your reach, even with 80' of movement, which is possible, but unlikely. Just a thought.