Warlock AC opinions 5e

[Zorahai]

I’m currently making a Warlock character and their current AC is 11. I know that at level 2 I can cast an invocation that will let me use Mage Armor at will. However, since my Dexterity is +0, it will only increase my AC to 13.

In short, is that invocation worth it if it’s just +2 to my AC of 11?

[Wilb]

Help us help you, what are your stats? What books can you use? Can you rebuild your character?

Without this info, the best I can answer is: Not worth it, use your ASIs to get heavier armor.

[Aett_Thorn]

The Math is a bit tricky on this for overall impact, but if you want to put it simply, each +1 to AC means you get hit 5% less of the time.

If you would be hit on a 10 or higher on the D20 roll, then you are getting hit 50% of the time. If they now need a 12 or higher to hit, you are only getting hit 40% of the time. So in that sense it is probably worth it. there's some proportional math that actually needs to be involved, but that's the gist of it.


However, my bigger questions to you:

1) Why do you only have a 10 in Dex as a Caster?

2) You should at least have access to Studded Leather Armor, which would put your AC at 12. Why not use that?

[Sigreid]

No. You'd be better off taking the hexblade subclass and when you get your first feat taking heavily armored.

[Unoriginal]

Errr, I don't have my books nearby, but it depends. Do you have a reason to not wear good armor or use a shield?

[Dudewithknives]

I’m currently making a Warlock character and their current AC is 11. I know that at level 2 I can cast an invocation that will let me use Mage Armor at will. However, since my Dexterity is +0, it will only increase my AC to 13.

In short, is that invocation worth it if it’s just +2 to my AC of 11?

If you put a 10 in dex on a caster you are going to have crap ac.
If you went hex blade like 95% of all warlocks now, you could get medium armor and a shield.
A hex blade with 10 dex can get a 17 ac assuming he can get halfplate.

[The_Jette]

The Math is a bit tricky on this for overall impact, but if you want to put it simply, each +1 to AC means you get hit 5% less of the time.

If you would be hit on a 10 or higher on the D20 roll, then you are getting hit 50% of the time. If they now need a 12 or higher to hit, you are only getting hit 40% of the time. So in that sense it is probably worth it. there's some proportional math that actually needs to be involved, but that's the gist of it.

Your math is a little off here. Hit on a 10 or higher has a 55% chance of getting hit, whereas a 12 or higher is a 45% chance of being hit. Also, the 5% chance really only matters if there wasn't much chance of getting hit to begin with. If he's fighting Giants (+12 to hit) then there's a flat 5% chance of getting hit whether he raises his AC or not. If he's fighting a Skeleton (+2), though, that 2 points of AC would matter.

[Aett_Thorn]

Your math is a little off here. Hit on a 10 or higher has a 55% chance of getting hit, whereas a 12 or higher is a 45% chance of being hit. Also, the 5% chance really only matters if there wasn't much chance of getting hit to begin with. If he's fighting Giants (+12 to hit) then there's a flat 5% chance of getting hit whether he raises his AC or not. If he's fighting a Skeleton (+2), though, that 2 points of AC would matter.

Thanks for the math correction. And yeah, we can get into the proportionate math if we want to, and include probabilities of being hit by various +ToHit numbers, but I wanted to keep it simple. But you're right on the 55%/45% thing.

[The_Jette]

Thanks for the math correction. And yeah, we can get into the proportionate math if we want to, and include probabilities of being hit by various +ToHit numbers, but I wanted to keep it simple. But you're right on the 55%/45% thing.

Didn't mean to sound overly critical. I really just meant that this guy's AC sucks, and he either needs to get a way to increase it a LOT, or prevent himself from being targeted in the first place. But, once he is targeted, chances are he's going to get hit a lot. That's why you never dump Dex on a character that doesn't wear heavy armor. Though, my Wizard only had an AC of 12 until he actually started using Mage Armor. Getting ohko'd three games in a row will do that to you...

[Aett_Thorn]

Didn't mean to sound overly critical. I really just meant that this guy's AC sucks, and he either needs to get a way to increase it a LOT, or prevent himself from being targeted in the first place. But, once he is targeted, chances are he's going to get hit a lot. That's why you never dump Dex on a character that doesn't wear heavy armor. Though, my Wizard only had an AC of 12 until he actually started using Mage Armor. Getting ohko'd three games in a row will do that to you...

No worries! Didn't take it that way at all. I made a mistake and you helped me correct it. We're all good. We have the same take on the matter, that the OP should definitely find a way to increase his AC, and Mage Armor probably isn't enough.

[Zorahai]

Help us help you, what are your stats? What books can you use? Can you rebuild your character?

Without this info, the best I can answer is: Not worth it, use your ASIs to get heavier armor.

My current stats are:

Str: 8
Dex: 11
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 16
Char: 16

Race: Human Varient
Background: Noble
Age: old

I’m wanting to do the Great Old One patron and I have the Observant feat. I’m not really into the idea of using melee attacks, but I also don’t want to die super easy.

I’m using the PHB currently

[Unoriginal]

My current stats are:

Str: 8
Dex: 11
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 16
Char: 16

Race: Human Varient
Background: Noble
Age: old

I’m wanting to do the Great Old One patron and I have the Observant feat. I’m not really into the idea of using melee attacks, but I also don’t want to die super easy.

I’m using the PHB currently


Why don't you buy a studded leather armor?

[Zorahai]

Why don't you buy a studded leather armor?

You start out with just regular leather armor but I have considered buying that and maybe a shield since you don’t have any requirements (that I know of) to use one.

Anyways, would that make Mage Armor worth it or not?

[Potato_Priest]

I’m wanting to do the Great Old One patron and I have the Observant feat. I’m not really into the idea of using melee attacks, but I also don’t want to die super easy.

I’m using the PHB currently

Use what you want, mate. Warlocks can have terrible AC (I know because mine did) but it's not a big deal if you can sit in the back and use armor of agathys (temp HP+damage to attackers) to protect yourself. At around level 7-8 caster AC often stops mattering anyway when lots of enemies have ~+10-12 to hit (or use effects with saving throws instead)*, so I'd just tough it out until AC is useless anyway. You'll be the one laughing when the fighter in plate meets an adult red dragon that hits him on rolls of 4+.

If you were to go with a hexblade you'd only get your AC up to a (still measly) 14-15 with breastplate or halfplate, and your strength is too low for heavy armor, which would be your only real option for getting a decent armor class. You may as well stay with what you want concept-wise.


You start out with just regular leather armor but I have considered buying that and maybe a shield since you don’t have any requirements (that I know of) to use one.

Anyways, would that make Mage Armor worth it or not?

Actually, you need to be proficient in shields to wear one, or you get all the penalties for wearing non-proficient armor. (can't cast spells, disadvantage on some ability checks...)

*I remember one high-ish level fight where a frost giant swung... and missed. The party went silent for a moment, in awe of this thing that seemingly hadn't happened to an enemy for three levels.

[Easy_Lee]

If you don't want to raise your dexterity, you might have better luck using tactics to avoid being attacked altogether. Alternatively, keep armor of agathys up and use Hellish Rebuke to heavily punish attackers (hopefully killing anyone who enters melee with you).

[ad_hoc]

To answer the direct question, no the Mage Armour invocation is not worth it. +1 AC for an invocation isn't great.

Early on the False Life invocation will be much better. Its use drops off soon, probably only worth taking for levels 2 and 3.

And no, you don't want to wield a shield while not being proficient. There is a list of penalties including not being able to cast spells.

[The_Jette]

Why didn't you put that second high score into Dexterity instead of Wisdom, though? I'm curious about that. Is there a reason that you want your character to have a particularly high Wisdom score? Also, your stats seems abnormally low. Did you roll, or point buy? And, if point buy, that seems like too low for a 27 point buy. So, how many points did you start with?

[Sigreid]

Why didn't you put that second high score into Dexterity instead of Wisdom, though? I'm curious about that. Is there a reason that you want your character to have a particularly high Wisdom score? Also, your stats seems abnormally low. Did you roll, or point buy? And, if point buy, that seems like too low for a 27 point buy. So, how many points did you start with?

I think a high wisdom is pretty appropriate for a warlock with a Lovecraftian theme.

[BloodOgre]

How do you intend to run the Warlock? As a ranged attacker or as front-line attacker. And how does your DM run his campaign? I've played a Wizard up to level 4 and have been attacked exactly once (I also got hit on that one attack). But I also stay in the back and cast buffs and ranged attacks.

As for Mage Armor, it is a spell that lasts 8 hours... Cast it and take a short rest to get the slot back. (IMO Mage Armor should be a ritual spell.)

[Sigreid]

How do you intend to run the Warlock? As a ranged attacker or as front-line attacker. And how does your DM run his campaign? I've played a Wizard up to level 4 and have been attacked exactly once (I also got hit on that one attack). But I also stay in the back and cast buffs and ranged attacks.

As for Mage Armor, it is a spell that lasts 8 hours... Cast it and take a short rest to get the slot back. (IMO Mage Armor should be a ritual spell.)

It's a invocation for warlocks. If you have a high dex it can be worthwhile. With a low dex it doesn't raise the bar enough for hitting you to be worth it.

[Talionis]

My current stats are:

Str: 8
Dex: 11
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 16
Char: 16

Race: Human Varient
Background: Noble
Age: old

I’m wanting to do the Great Old One patron and I have the Observant feat. I’m not really into the idea of using melee attacks, but I also don’t want to die super easy.

I’m using the PHB currently
Don't get the Mage Armor Invocation.

False Life is a good invocation at early levels, trade it out at later levels.

An idea might be to go Valor Bard for three levels and then go back into Warlock. This picks up Medium Armor proficiency and Shields. It also give you Expertise in two skills and it will give you 1st and 2nd level spells that might be helpful. Cure Wounds is a good candidate, since Warlocks lack healing spells. Look for spells that allow for scaling so as you eventually get to cast them out of your Warlock spell slots you'll be able to upcast them for benefit.

If you have access to the new book, Warlock of the Chain can get an invocation that allows all healing on the Warlock to always do as much healing as it possibly could. That can be paired with Bard Spells upcast or just spells like 3rd Level Warlock spells that allows you to attack and steal life, its much more reasonable if you can heal at 100% each turn.

Mirror Image is a good 2nd level spell that helps you stay alive, but its better with higher Dexterity so it might be a waste of a spell for a Warlock with low Dexterity.

I'm not a fan of Armor of Agathys at low levels, I also think AoA is really built for melee characters (hexblades) that can build around it and get both the offensive and defensive bonuses. It might serve as a form of rattlesnake, that prevents people from attacking you in melee, but you get so few spell slots I don't advise you learning it. The time limit of an hour makes it sometimes a complete waste, some DM's help you and let it roll into the next encounter, but often you took time to cast AoA, you don't get many spells anyway, and then you don't use it all and feel like you wasted the spell slot, if you are going to be a hide in the back Eldritch Blast, pew pew guy.

A spell that might be beneficial is Darkness. Darkness and the invocation that allows you to see through magical darkness, give you some real defense. You may need to detach yourself from the group in order to not negatively affect your team, but since you are a back line guy anyway, this can be your best defense.

Invocations that allow you to see in Magical Darkness, allow you to attack from range, push targets away from you, and for a few level False Life to just constantly have 8 extra temporary hit points. All better than Mage Armor.

But I think you need to roleplay yourself as very cautious. People need to protect you. You may need to flee a lot.

[IStillDream]

Why didn't you put that second high score into Dexterity instead of Wisdom, though? I'm curious about that. Is there a reason that you want your character to have a particularly high Wisdom score? Also, your stats seems abnormally low. Did you roll, or point buy? And, if point buy, that seems like too low for a 27 point buy. So, how many points did you start with?



(First of all, hi everybody! Having previously had a few meh experiences with 4e, I got invited into a 5e game with some old friends and a wonderful DM this past summer, and as I've grown increasing obsessed with D&D, this forum has been a useful resource. Plus the comic is, as goes without saying, utterly brilliant).


Anyway, at risk of using my first post to be snarky, perhaps he did it for roleplay reasons? I'm in, if anything, a worse boat than he is–my level 4 half-elf warlock has a -1 dexmod, because I myself have a disability that impairs my real-life dexterity and I wanted to try playing a character who functioned that way. Now granted, I'm a tomelock, not a hexblade, but I've gotten hit plenty. I put the 2nd most points into Con, so I've got 27 hit points, and with a shield and leather armor I have a serviceable 12 AC. At earlier, squishier levels I hung back and spammed eldritch blast, but now I've added Shillelagh and Green Flame Blade to give our party a decent melee option (and at next levelup, along with taking fireball, I'll probably swap something for Armor of Agathys for a bit of extra toughness) because, since it's what people felt like playing, our party is Warlock-Wizard-Sorcerer–Cleric-Bard–Rogue. Working around not having a big hulking tank has honestly been fun, for us and our DM, and working around my character's limitations has been fun–and occasionally emotionally potent–for me. Each to their own of course, and I entirely get the fun of the maximization puzzle, but there's also nothing wrong withpicking your stats to describe the character's personality and working the rest out as you go.

[Talionis]

(First of all, hi everybody! Having previously had a few meh experiences with 4e, I got invited into a 5e game with some old friends and a wonderful DM this past summer, and as I've grown increasing obsessed with D&D, this forum has been a useful resource. Plus the comic is, as goes without saying, utterly brilliant).


Anyway, at risk of using my first post to be snarky, perhaps he did it for roleplay reasons? I'm in, if anything, a worse boat than he is–my level 4 half-elf warlock has a -1 dexmod, because I myself have a disability that impairs my real-life dexterity and I wanted to try playing a character who functioned that way. Now granted, I'm a tomelock, not a hexblade, but I've gotten hit plenty. I put the 2nd most points into Con, so I've got 27 hit points, and with a shield and leather armor I have a serviceable 12 AC. At earlier, squishier levels I hung back and spammed eldritch blast, but now I've added Shillelagh and Green Flame Blade to give our party a decent melee option (and at next levelup, along with taking fireball, I'll probably swap something for Armor of Agathys for a bit of extra toughness) because, since it's what people felt like playing, our party is Warlock-Wizard-Sorcerer–Cleric-Bard–Rogue. Working around not having a big hulking tank has honestly been fun, for us and our DM, and working around my character's limitations has been fun–and occasionally emotionally potent–for me. Each to their own of course, and I entirely get the fun of the maximization puzzle, but there's also nothing wrong withpicking your stats to describe the character's personality and working the rest out as you go.

It could be the same way if he rolled. I had a DM that made you put what you rolled into each stat, no choice, at least you got to pick classes afterwords.

Having some points in Dexterity does help AC. Knowing that he can't fix it by reassigning is an okay question.

This character doesn't appear to be a melee character at least not in a normal campaign.

[Zorahai]

Why didn't you put that second high score into Dexterity instead of Wisdom, though? I'm curious about that. Is there a reason that you want your character to have a particularly high Wisdom score? Also, your stats seems abnormally low. Did you roll, or point buy? And, if point buy, that seems like too low for a 27 point buy. So, how many points did you start with?

I did the point buy system and had 27 to start.

Char: 15 +1 (racial bonus)
Wis: 15 +1 (observant feat)
Con: 12 +1 (racial bonus)
Dex: 11
Int: 11
Str: 8

I’m choosing the higher wisdom as it didn’t make sense to me that a noble wouldn’t be good at figuring out lies after his years of experience. Plus, since he is an old man, his physical state has naturally gone down a bit so his Str and Dex would be lower. He is a human after all.

Plus, I wanted to make him a bit mischievous so Wisdom compliments Charisma in that department.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Consider taking a level or two in Cleric. It'll net you medium and possibly heavy armour as well as shields, as well as various class features your excellent wisdom makes you well-positioned to take advantage of.

If your DM is not enforcing multiclass ability score requirements, you could also consider dipping into Fighter, Ranger, or Paladin on similar grounds.

[Sirithhyando]

My current stats are:

Str: 8
Dex: 11
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 16
Char: 16

Race: Human Varient
Background: Noble
Age: old

I’m wanting to do the Great Old One patron and I have the Observant feat. I’m not really into the idea of using melee attacks, but I also don’t want to die super easy.

I’m using the PHB currently

Then multiclass as a forge cleric to gain access to heavy armor, then everyday you make your armor a +1. There, as soon as you have a full plate, you're at 19AC.
Plus, you gain access to some nice spell that you can use with your warlock spell slot that come back every short rest.

(warlock/cleric is my favorite combination :smallbiggrin:)

[Mortis_Elrod]

I did the point buy system and had 27 to start.

Char: 15 +1 (racial bonus)
Wis: 15 +1 (observant feat)
Con: 12 +1 (racial bonus)
Dex: 11
Int: 11
Str: 8

I’m choosing the higher wisdom as it didn’t make sense to me that a noble wouldn’t be good at figuring out lies after his years of experience. Plus, since he is an old man, his physical state has naturally gone down a bit so his Str and Dex would be lower. He is a human after all.

Plus, I wanted to make him a bit mischievous so Wisdom compliments Charisma in that department.

Gonna be honest here. You kind of dig yourself in a whole AC wise. I don’t want to offfend your or anything but your choices have left me befuddled. You could always just choose insight as a skill to detect lies, no need to develop that part of your character so much in your stats. I wouldn’t make someone not wearing heavy armor have less than 14 dex.


I would remake your character a bit. But if you don’t feel like you need to a cleric dip should give you medium armor possibly heavy (though I think you need more str for that). If that’s not what you want then make armor with some temp hp and standing really far away might be your best bet.

[Aett_Thorn]

I did the point buy system and had 27 to start.

Char: 15 +1 (racial bonus)
Wis: 15 +1 (observant feat)
Con: 12 +1 (racial bonus)
Dex: 11
Int: 11
Str: 8

I’m choosing the higher wisdom as it didn’t make sense to me that a noble wouldn’t be good at figuring out lies after his years of experience. Plus, since he is an old man, his physical state has naturally gone down a bit so his Str and Dex would be lower. He is a human after all.

Plus, I wanted to make him a bit mischievous so Wisdom compliments Charisma in that department.

May I ask why you put a +1 to Con as part of your racial stats, and not +1 to Dex. Going from 12 to 13 for Con gets you nothing. Going from 11 to 12 Dex gets you +1 AC, and +1 to initiative.

[Arkhios]

Pick up the Mage Armor Invocation at 2nd level, then once you reach 4th level, I think Moderately Armored Feat wouldn't do harm to you (at that point, you can replace the mage armor invocation with something else, if you want to). It lets you add +1 to Str or Dex (Dex being the obvious choice for you) and gives medium armor AND shield proficiency. With Dex 12 from that point forward, you would be relatively safe from most attacks, even if you didn't wish to use shield (though there isn't many downsides for you to use one, as you only need one hand free to cast spells, etc.)


May I ask why you put a +1 to Con as part of your racial stats, and not +1 to Dex. Going from 12 to 13 for Con gets you nothing. Going from 11 to 12 Dex gets you +1 AC, and +1 to initiative.

Maybe he was thinking in advance to take +1 feat later? Nothing wrong in that.

[samcifer]

Then multiclass as a forge cleric to gain access to heavy armor, then everyday you make your armor a +1. There, as soon as you have a full plate, you're at 19AC.
Plus, you gain access to some nice spell that you can use with your warlock spell slot that come back every short rest.

(warlock/cleric is my favorite combination :smallbiggrin:)

Won't work. His strength is far too low for heavy armor. He'd be better off asking his dm if he could swap his WIS and DEX stats.

[Arkhios]

Won't work. His strength is far too low for heavy armor. He'd be better off asking his dm if he could swap his WIS and DEX stats.

It works, but he would be slow. Having proficiency but not enough strength only drops your speed by 10 feet. Nothing else.

[Sirithhyando]

Won't work. His strength is far too low for heavy armor. He'd be better off asking his dm if he could swap his WIS and DEX stats.
Ah good point, forgot the strengh prerequisite.


It works, but he would be slow. Having proficiency but not enough strength only drops your speed by 10 feet. Nothing else.
Well, with an 8 strengh, you still can't lift much, and a full plate would proabably be too much anyway.

[Arkhios]

Ah good point, forgot the strengh prerequisite.


Well, with an 8 strengh, you still can't lift much, and a full plate would proabably be too much anyway.

Excuse me while I lift up my glasses and be a bit pedantic for a while. Strength 8 means you have a carrying capacity of 120 (8 x 15) lb. and a plate armor weighs "only" 65 lb.

Also, Encumbrance is a variant rule (on page 176, PHB), and as such not in use in every table. So unless your DM uses that variant, I wouldn't sweat it that much. And even if DM did use it, note that Encumbrance Variant says this: "When you use this variant, ignore the Strength column of the Armor table in chapter 5".

[samcifer]

It works, but he would be slow. Having proficiency but not enough strength only drops your speed by 10 feet. Nothing else.

Oh, okay then. Didn't know that rule. I had assumed a minimum strength score was required to have proficiency.

[Arkhios]

Oh, okay then. Didn't know that rule. I had assumed a minimum strength score was required to have proficiency.

Nope. Although, it sounds like a decent house rule to me :smallsmile:

[Zorahai]

Gonna be honest here. You kind of dig yourself in a whole AC wise. I don’t want to offfend your or anything but your choices have left me befuddled. You could always just choose insight as a skill to detect lies, no need to develop that part of your character so much in your stats. I wouldn’t make someone not wearing heavy armor have less than 14 dex.


I would remake your character a bit. But if you don’t feel like you need to a cleric dip should give you medium armor possibly heavy (though I think you need more str for that). If that’s not what you want then make armor with some temp hp and standing really far away might be your best bet.

I’m focusing more on a role play aspect with this character than anything and the AC stuff is so that my character doesn’t die right away since I kinda like his concept so far haha.

The reason I have his wisdom and charisma so high is because of his background of having to deal with people as a noble for the majority of his life and so I felt he would be very good at it. Plus, he is an old man so I didn’t think his physical stats would be that high either. Also Char is the spell stuff for Warlocks and I’m going to need that to do cool magic and stuff.

He is prodicient in:
Insight
Deception
Persuasion
History
Investigation (+7 due to feat)

His passive perception is 18 to help cover the issues of running into traps or stuff also.

I’m focusing on him being a role play heavy and supportish character more than anything really.


May I ask why you put a +1 to Con as part of your racial stats, and not +1 to Dex. Going from 12 to 13 for Con gets you nothing. Going from 11 to 12 Dex gets you +1 AC, and +1 to initiative.

That’s a great point that I didn’t think of! I’ll remake his stats that way. I was thinking 13 Con would boost his health but forgot that 13 is just +1 not +2 when I first made him.

[GlenSmash!]

I did the point buy system and had 27 to start.

Char: 15 +1 (racial bonus)
Wis: 15 +1 (observant feat)
Con: 12 +1 (racial bonus)
Dex: 11
Int: 11
Str: 8

I’m choosing the higher wisdom as it didn’t make sense to me that a noble wouldn’t be good at figuring out lies after his years of experience. Plus, since he is an old man, his physical state has naturally gone down a bit so his Str and Dex would be lower. He is a human after all.

Plus, I wanted to make him a bit mischievous so Wisdom compliments Charisma in that department.

I think it's great that you decided to think about who this character is and then assigned stats accordingly.

I don't think you need to swap stats at all.

Have fun!