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View Full Version : Speculation Moving away from the Arcane/Divine dichotomy



PhoenixPhyre
2017-12-13, 09:44 PM
I've never been a fan of the division of magic into arcane or divine. It's a relic of earlier editions that especially doesn't fit well with the varieties of spell-casters in this edition. No longer are Paladins tied to gods; neither are druids or (especially) rangers. Thinking of sorcerers and wizards as both being "arcane" casters leaves very little daylight between them, with sorcerers coming out the loser.

Instead, I want to propose a trinity of stylistic extremes instead as a way of thinking about the spell-casting classes. I think of these as forming a triangle, one at each vertex. The edges represent hybrid styles. In reality, all the classes are hybrids, but some are strongly tied to one style while others are more balanced.

Auxiliary definition: a spell is a specific pattern that when energized (whether by a spell slot or an item or whatever) creates an extra-normal effect.

Practiced vs Mediated vs Intrinsic

Practiced spell-casters are those that gain their knowledge of spells through dedicated, repeated practice. This is where wizards, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters belong. Since they're directly creating the pattern from memory, a strong intellect is necessary. Effects that bolster and directly heal living beings are the weakness of this style--the number and complexity of the necessary effects are difficult to hold in memory.

Mediated spell-casters lean on other powerful beings to actually perform the patterns and then channel that energy through themselves. This requires the sensitivity to the guidance of the other beings. This is the home of clerics, druids, and rangers--the first channels divine (extra-planar) power, while the second two channel the spirits of the natural world. This style of magic might also be called contractual--the caster relies on his or her bond with another being or beings to enact the fantastical effects. Direct elemental or force-type effects are less common here, and the reliance on other beings makes these casters more narrow in focus (based on their contracting partner's specialties).

Intrinsic spell-casters use something inherent in themselves. They intuit the existence of these patterns. Paladins (empowered by their unshakable confidence in an Oath) and sorcerers (empowered by heritage, accident, or whatever) are prime examples of this style. These casters tend to be more narrow than even mediated casters--only some spells resonate with their makeup and "make sense" to them. At the same time, they often have access to idiosyncratic effects that can't be effectively mimic'd by other casters. They rely on direct force of will--telling reality to get bent and forcing it to listen, rather than subversion/reality-hacking (practiced) or outside intervention (mediated).

What about bards and warlocks? Those are hybrids. Depending on the exact conceptualization, they could fit in either of two of the three (or maybe between the three).

Bards, to me, are a combination of intrinsic and practiced, leaning toward the intrinsic. They learn in colleges, like wizards, and can mimic other casters with enough practice, but are empowered by rhythm and music and tend toward a freer style than wizards, who rely on practiced perfection.

Warlocks are more of an intuitive/mediated split, leaning toward the intuitive--they gain the initial spark from a contract but then develop that on their own.

Naanomi
2017-12-13, 09:59 PM
As far as I know, the dichotomy between divine and arcane casting only exists as setting fluff in the current material anyways. If your homebrew campaign differentiates it in a different way, go for it. Psionics would probably be either Practiced Intrinsic as well

Note, if we ever get Darksun material, the distinction will matter again (by your model would only Practiced magic need defiling/preserving?)

PhoenixPhyre
2017-12-13, 10:08 PM
As far as I know, the dichotomy between divine and arcane casting only exists as setting fluff in the current material anyways. If your homebrew campaign differentiates it in a different way, go for it. Psionics would probably be either Practiced Intrinsic as well

Note, if we ever get Darksun material, the distinction will matter again (by your model would only Practiced magic need defiling/preserving?)

Yeah, but I still don't like it there, even as fluff. This is less about fluff than it is a different way of thinking about the classes that tries to differentiate the classes, giving them a separate reason to exist.

But that's secondary. Psionics do fit as a nicely balanced Practiced/Intrinsic mix, I agree.

I think that Darksun's preserving/defiling is more about the source of the energy that fills spell slots, not the source of the patterns themselves. That is, you'd have preserving/defiling versions of whatever classes exist. I'm not too familiar with it, but from what I know, the druidic spirit-mediated magic would fit well under preserving (going with the natural flow, power in balance), while sorcerers/wizards would fit better into the defiling mode (ripping magic out of the landscape with more artificial (wizards) or heedless (sorcerers) means).

Naanomi
2017-12-13, 10:13 PM
The one thing that Arcane/Divine dichotomy does allow is the traditional ‘church-based witch hunters’ to work out well... but again that is mostly an in-game social construct that could still exist in places you wanted it to, even if you organized things differently for the most part

PhoenixPhyre
2017-12-13, 10:25 PM
The one thing that Arcane/Divine dichotomy does allow is the traditional ‘church-based witch hunters’ to work out well... but again that is mostly an in-game social construct that could still exist in places you wanted it to, even if you organized things differently for the most part

That's an idea I haven't explored really--one of the more active gods in my setting is the god of magic (and his demonic counterpart, the one whose interests include necromancy and blood magic is also very active), so the idea of churches hunting magic users hasn't come up.

I did make a class that was specifically designed as an anti-caster class (at least in fluff and a little bit in some abilities). They shape the ambient magic into pseudo-magical items (a spin-off of Magic of Incarnum) and look for the platonic shapes behind reality. Spell-casting disrupts that, like ripples in a pond disrupt reflections.

Naanomi
2017-12-13, 10:40 PM
One of the major nations in my home campaign is a theocracy under the control of a very Lawful church that worships the Twin Goddesses of War and Justice; who consider only wizards/bards/Rangers who work under the supervision of the clergy directly to get a pass; sorcerers are to be captured and ‘castigated’ to remove their powers, and Warlocks/Druids are heretics to be killed without question.

It doesn’t need to be everywhere, but it is a pretty classic fantasy setting idea

HolyDraconus
2017-12-13, 10:56 PM
Since 3.x, I always split magic down 4 paths. Power of mind (psionics), power of will (arcane), power of heart (divine) and power of soul (incarnum). We also played as if none can directly counter any other, though subtle things can get thru (of course there was splat that had cross touching so it wasn't completely busted) and it worked for us.


Calling magic, Magic, without care of origin feels a bit...off to us, but doable. Rolling them into a method of acquisition instead of origin could work... But what if incarnum comes to 5e? Granted I could probably port the thing over after a few days of flattening crunch, but currently don't have time for something that needs a lot of that kind of attention, yet still. How will it fit in your trinity? Genuinely interested in what you have to say.

Regitnui
2017-12-13, 11:36 PM
Perhaps we think of it as raw and faith magics; the wizard, AT, EK, sorcerer, warlock and bard all manipulate raw magic or cause magical effects directly, while the cleric, druid, ranger and paladin have to channel faith (in gods, in nature, or in an oath) to cast their spells.