Battle bard?

[Afrodactyl]

Hello all,

My group is looking to run Out of the Abyss once we've finished Storm Kings Thunder, and I want to play a Gish of some kind; fighting on the frontline beside the group's champion fighter, blasting when needed with his select few blasting spells, and being the party face in general.

My main question is; should I go with my initial plan of a college of swords bard, or go with something else? I ideally want to stick with bard for the bulk of the build.

In terms of multiclassing, I have no interest right now in paladins (I find them a bit bland in terms of background) or warlocks (I recently used one in another campaign and I'm a bit warlock'd out).

[DeTess]

What level do you expect the campaign to go up to? I haven't played one yet myself, but the college of swords bard does look quite decent for what you want to do. If you go up to tier 4, then maybe taking 2 levels of dragon sorcerer or fighter might be worth it, but other than that going full bard shouldn't be a problem.

[Afrodactyl]

Starting level one, going through to about level fifteen I believe.

I was planning on having vicious mockery, dissonant whispers and shatter as my damaging spells, picking up steel wind strike as one of my magical secrets, then going for utility/social spells for the rest.

Hopefully I can get a decent dex weapon and some decent armour by third level.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

At higher levels you can multiclass. Like bard-fighter or paladin. but it also depends on level and as Randuir said you can always go full bard.

[Afrodactyl]

At higher levels you can multiclass. Like bard-fighter or paladin. but it also depends on level and as Randuir said you can always go full bard.

I might end up going bard/fighter if I decide to multiclass for action surge, second wind and battlemaster goodies, however plain swords bard is looking like it might do well enough for now.

Thank you for the input guys

[Aett_Thorn]

Do you know what type of fighter it will be? Meaning a sword+board, dual-wielding, or two-handed weapon type of fighter?

Swords Bard is certainly great for a dex-based fighter, but if that is the direction the Champion is going in, then a Valor Bard might be good so that you're not competing for weapons and armor.

[the_brazenburn]

Do you know what type of fighter it will be? Meaning a sword+board, dual-wielding, or two-handed weapon type of fighter?

Swords Bard is certainly great for a dex-based fighter, but if that is the direction the Champion is going in, then a Valor Bard might be good so that you're not competing for weapons and armor.

Agreed, OotA is very heavy on survival, with lots of combat but not much RP mixed in. The need for a face is less than in other adventures, and you will not have access to a lot of equipment. Going DEX is probably advisable, since most of the weapons you can retrieve will be from drow you slay, meaning heavy on the daggers, rapiers, shortswords, and crossbows and low on the heavy STR sword/axe/mace axis.

[Specter]

Other than what has already been suggested, there's something else that can work: Fighter 1/Lore Bard X.

Start as High Elf or Variant Half-Elf to get Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade, and as Fighter for Constitution saving throws (and all proficiencies). After that, Lore Bard all the way. You'll never get two attacks, but with a fighting style and the scalable damage of the cantrips, you can do just fine in melee, and still get a bunch of skills and magical secrets.

[Afrodactyl]

The champion is a strength based Goliath who will be taking the biggest weapon he can get hold of, potentially taking some barbarian levels if he's finding his AC or damage lacking. I will hopefully be slapping on the first light/medium armour and finesse weapon I can get hold of.

I have thought about possibly taking variant human for magic initiate (sorcerer) for booming/greenflame blade, another cantrip and something like mage armour, or picking it up as a feat on a half elf at fourth level.

How does booming blade compare to two melee attacks?

[Specter]

I have thought about possibly taking variant human for magic initiate (sorcerer) for booming/greenflame blade, another cantrip and something like mage armour, or picking it up as a feat on a half elf at fourth level.

How does booming blade compare to two melee attacks?

At level 5, it's 1d8+1d8+DEX. Extra Attack multiplies DEX by 2, so it's 3-4 points ahead. But these cantrips also have secondary damage if the enemy moves/is near another, so it's a fair trade.

At level 11 and 17, both instances of the damage go up, making it better than two attacks (flourishes not included, but those would cost resources).

[PeteNutButter]

At level 5, it's 1d8+1d8+DEX. Extra Attack multiplies DEX by 2, so it's 3-4 points ahead. But these cantrips also have secondary damage if the enemy moves/is near another, so it's a fair trade.

There might be a magic weapon in there that helps make up this difference... It is true that without feats or magic weapons or buff spells the cantrip will outscale the 2 attacks.



At level 11 and 17, both instances of the damage go up, making it better than two attacks (flourishes not included, but those would cost resources).

Level 14+ the flourishes are resource free for 1d6, and I don't think they'll see level 17. My OoA character ended at 14 I think.

Overall its a fair comparison, but I'd favor the blade bard, just because I'm partial to it. I like having two attacks, because at big tables which AL games often have it's a pain to wait 5 minutes to roll one die and miss.

[Quoxis]

Never forget how nova-heavy a two level dip into paladin can make you. You get all weapons, all armor (if starting pally), a fighting style, the paladins' healing hand thingy (great if you're out of spell slots for healing) AND divine smite - and as a main caster you have slots to smite for days.
If the campaign is as unforgiving as it sounds, wear heavy armor even if you don't have the str for it, you only lose 10ft of movement.

Quickly glancing over the OP i simply misread/ignored the part about not wanting paladin in the mix (which i understand). Sorry for bothering you guys!

[Aett_Thorn]

Never forget how nova-heavy a two level dip into paladin can make you. You get all weapons, all armor (if starting pally), a fighting style, the paladins' healing hand thingy (great if you're out of spell slots for healing) AND divine smite - and as a main caster you have slots to smite for days.

OP said that he didn't want Paladin.

[Chunkosaurus]

Fighter 1/Swords Bard X is fantastic. I'm playing one right now and it is super dynamic

[Afrodactyl]

Thank you all for the input regarding BB/GFB.


Quickly glancing over the OP i simply misread/ignored the part about not wanting paladin in the mix (which i understand). Sorry for bothering you guys!

No worries, I appreciate the input regardless. One day I will find a way to enjoy paladins.



Fighter 1/Swords Bard X is fantastic. I'm playing one right now and it is super dynamic

Is that starting as fighter for the proficiencies and slightly bigger starting HP?

[Chunkosaurus]

Thank you all for the input regarding BB/GFB.



No worries, I appreciate the input regardless. One day I will find a way to enjoy paladins.




Is that starting as fighter for the proficiencies and slightly bigger starting HP?

Yeah you get proficiencies, hp, Con saves, and second wind. It's wonderful

[Grod_The_Giant]

Up until 11th, the melee cantrips are a bit ahead of the Attack action if they activate their bonus, and equal (1-5) or behind if they don't. TWF will mess with this ratio, though, as will magic weapons and per-hit damage boosters.

[Biggstick]

At level 5, it's 1d8+1d8+DEX. Extra Attack multiplies DEX by 2, so it's 3-4 points ahead. But these cantrips also have secondary damage if the enemy moves/is near another, so it's a fair trade.

At level 11 and 17, both instances of the damage go up, making it better than two attacks (flourishes not included, but those would cost resources).

It's better then two attacks, which is something gained from being a primary martial at level 5. That's a 6 level disparity that you're not including what's gained by the primary martial characters. For Barbarians, it's additional Rage damage and Brutal Criticals. Fighter's, it's actually a third attack at level 11. For Monks, all Monk weapons jump to a d8 damage die. For Paladins, they gain Improved Divine Smite. For Rangers, it depends on their archetype, but typically it's a way to gain more attack rolls.

None of these abilities gained cost resources for the class. Simply comparing two attacks to BB/GFB isn't a fair comparison imo.

What's also not included in your description are things that benefit from having multiple attack rolls, like Sharpshooter/GWM/PAM/Hunter's Mark-esque spells/etc. Having advantage on multiple attack rolls means more chances for critical hits. There are definitely features that don't necessarily cost resources to increase the damage output of a primary martial compared to BB/GFB.


There might be a magic weapon in there that helps make up this difference... It is true that without feats or magic weapons or buff spells the cantrip will outscale the 2 attacks.

Or as described above, martial classes built in abilities. With the caveat you've provided though, I'd agree. But let's not give the OP bad gouge on expectations. They will fall behind any dedicated martial character, and shouldn't expect to keep up damage-wise with them.

[Specter]

It's better then two attacks, which is something gained from being a primary martial at level 5. That's a 6 level disparity that you're not including what's gained by the primary martial characters. For Barbarians, it's additional Rage damage and Brutal Criticals. Fighter's, it's actually a third attack at level 11. For Monks, all Monk weapons jump to a d8 damage die. For Paladins, they gain Improved Divine Smite. For Rangers, it depends on their archetype, but typically it's a way to gain more attack rolls.

None of these abilities gained cost resources for the class. Simply comparing two attacks to BB/GFB isn't a fair comparison imo.

What's also not included in your description are things that benefit from having multiple attack rolls, like Sharpshooter/GWM/PAM/Hunter's Mark-esque spells/etc. Having advantage on multiple attack rolls means more chances for critical hits. There are definitely features that don't necessarily cost resources to increase the damage output of a primary martial compared to BB/GFB.

I'm comparing Booming Blade to Swords Bard only. Don't read too much into it.

[Degwerks]

6th level shadow monk and the rest in Whisper or Sword Bard would be cool. Magical Secrets for Shadow Blade.

[PeteNutButter]

Or as described above, martial classes built in abilities. With the caveat you've provided though, I'd agree. But let's not give the OP bad gouge on expectations. They will fall behind any dedicated martial character, and shouldn't expect to keep up damage-wise with them.

Well he was specifically comparing bard, so I left that stuff off. Blade bards get some built in perks, but valor does not... at all. A valor bard might find its major class feature (extra attack) outscaled by a cantrip by level 11 without feats or magic items to boost DPR.