Has anyone successfully played an effigy master?

[magicalmagicman]

I want a give one a try but there's just way too many problems.

1. Effigies are expensive which means you get your first effigy mid level at which point, what's the point?
2. If an effigy dies you are left bankrupt.
3. If your DM is stingy with money, you're screwed.

So... has anyone played a successful effigy master? and if so could you tell me your story? I'm especially interested in effigy choice and how you dealt with wealth.

edit: When I mean effigy master, I don't necessarily mean the PrC. Artificers qualify too. Just a character that revolves around building effigies/constructs. Afaik, effigies are the only economically viable constructs available at low levels. Also, no reason a character can't have both craft construct and levels in effigy master.

[weckar]

It's a relatively late entry PrC, loses a caster level and very poorly synergizes with Artificer - which is a bit sad for a crafting-focused PrC. In fact, because it crafts its constructs without the use of a feat, most cost-reducing feats don't actually apply.

What does this really do that just taking the Craft Construct feat couldn't achieve?

[noob]

You might try to use your effigy powers on ice assassins of yourself(or simulacrum) by using the word effigy more widely than just creatures of the effigy type.

Special: Must have the simulacrum spell on a class spell list, whether or not the character is able to cast it.

That special requirement push a little bit toward that interpretation.

[magicalmagicman]

What does this really do that just taking the Craft Construct feat couldn't achieve?

Using Effigies via Craft Construct is fine too. Wizards and Artificers can grab it at level 6, which is what I fully intend to do. One of these two.

I should clarify that in my first post.

Also there's no reason you can't have both. Craft construct at 6, grab effigy master at 8.

[noob]

Create an Effigy Creature a super high level wizard(if possible of a small wizard).
It costs as much as if you were making a medium sized 1 hd effigy and is super weak(because he gets none of the useful stuff of a wizard).
Then have it run amok.
Then beat it and gain stupidly high xp because it have the cr of a super high level wizard.

[magicalmagicman]

Use a Effigy Creature a super high level wizard.
It costs as much as if you were making a medium sized 1 hd effigy and is super weak(because he gets none of the useful stuff of a wizard).
Then have it run amok.
Then beat it and gain stupidly high xp because it have the cr of a super high level wizard.

Yeah... I'm not interested in using creative reading to do stuff like that. I want to create a monster and have it run amok, not some rule exploit.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

[AnimeTheCat]

I guess this is why someone might play an effigy master:

- compared to the Craft Construct feat, you need half the feats (craft construct requiring craft wonderous item and craft magic arms and armor while effigy master only requires craft wonderous item).

- Effigies created by an effigy master are going to be stronger than constructs crafted by an equal level wizard as the effigy master adds his/her class level to his caster level to determine the most HD effigy they can craft. Not even using tricky reading, this means a wizard 7/effigy master 5 should be treated as a caster level 16 for the purpose of determining the number of HD an effigy they craft can have (CL 7 from wizard+CL 4 from spell progression levels of effigy master+CL 5 from effigy master class levels).

- Standard constructs (in this case I'm using golems) are going to be more expensive to craft than an effigy. A Large, 11 HD clay golem costs 2150 gp + 1540 XP. A large, 11 HD effigy is going to cost 1600 gp + 880 XP.
-- To further expand upon this, the example creature in Complete Arcane is an Effigy Dire Lion. Such a creature would cost 13000 GP and 800 XP. The Effigy Dire Lion has better combat maneuverability (with pounce, rankes, and improved grab) and better physical stats. So if you're looking for something that is mobile, Dire Lions could be a pretty good way to go as you can craft them from Effigy Master 1.

Those are just the first things that stood out to me without any sort of creative reading or in depth thought. It seems pretty interesting to me, but if I want lots of minions I'm more inclined to do so with wild empathy and handle animal because I like the feeling of that (even though it's not the most efficient/effective method).

EDIT:
While not optimal, you could take a one level dip in Wizard or Sorcerer and then progress permanently in Urban Druid. The idea being that Urban Druids lack the Simulacrum requirement, but can spontaneously cast repair spells and can even have a little construct companion. It would, unfortunately, put you 2 CL behind, but you'll still be ahead of other construct crafting classes after a mere 3 levels of the class. I would play it if the DM could guarentee that I have enough time to actually craft my effigies. I would definitely play a Dwarf for this. Max that metalworking craft skill.

SECOND EDIT:
An interesting combination could be a wizard (or sorcerer) with precocious apprentice for level 1, 3 levels of Urban Druid, 3 levels of mystic theurge, 5 levels of effigy master (increasing the urban druid casting), finish off with the last 7 levels of mystic theurge and you've still got one more level to mess with. Gets you a good array of spellcasting, potoent effigy creations, and would be a fun build overall in my opinion. A good counter to a minionmancer I would say. Especially if you end up taking craft magical arms and armor, you can make all sorts of gear and equipment for your army of effigies. With the capability for characters to create immense amounts of gold with a stark few spells money isn't an object.

[thorr-kan]

I've looked at it, and thought is was interesting.

Iffen you don't mind being a gnome, combining with maester from CompAdv might be fun.

[Dimers]

I've purchased an effigy for a character in a non-optimized game and it worked okay. The immunities and DR are nice; the craptastic progression, not so great. A couple comments:

Arguably, you can add one class level to any effigy creature build. "Drop any Hit Dice gained from class levels (to a minimum of 1) ..." To a minimum of 1 HD or to a minimum of 1 HD gained from class levels? Stick a level of fighter on there -- or crusader, since they don't have to take any action to recover maneuvers.

Templates don't appear to alter the cost at all. Stack until your DM says "waitafrigginminute".

A fast flying grappler seems to be the most valuable sort of effigy creature in the long term.

[magicalmagicman]

Alright, so I was hoping for...

"Yeah I played an effigy master. here was some problems and here's how I overcame them."

Instead I got...

"Yeah, looks interesting, but x might be a problem."

XD.

Alright, so I guess I'll try this somewhat blind and fail hard in my next game.

[Gruftzwerg]

Alright, so I was hoping for...

"Yeah I played an effigy master. here was some problems and here's how I overcame them."

Instead I got...

"Yeah, looks interesting, but x might be a problem."

XD.

Alright, so I guess I'll try this somewhat blind and fail hard in my next game.

I guess the biggest problems you'll have will be time & money (access to resources). If the campaign barely sees a town to trade and get stuff, that could also be seen as problem.

Imho Effigy Masters are better villains (npc), since you can bend time ("they have done it before the campaign") & (access to) resources to some degree here.

Further I have read several guides that always recommend only a single lvl dip into Effigy Master. Imho it fits a craftlock, something like:
warlock 12 / Chameleon 2 (for the floating feat) / Effigy Master 1 / xxx (maybe add Blood Magus 4 for scribing scrolls on your skin and brewing potions in your blood)
It's just sad that the build kick in very late, but as a villain he is perfect. He can use lower (HD) effigies for the earlier lvls of the PCs and his strong ones when the PCs reach the final battles.

[Zephonim]

I want a give one a try but there's just way too many problems.

1. Effigies are expensive which means you get your first effigy mid level at which point, what's the point?
2. If an effigy dies you are left bankrupt.
3. If your DM is stingy with money, you're screwed.

So... has anyone played a successful effigy master? and if so could you tell me your story? I'm especially interested in effigy choice and how you dealt with wealth.

edit: When I mean effigy master, I don't necessarily mean the PrC. Artificers qualify too. Just a character that revolves around building effigies/constructs. Afaik, effigies are the only economically viable constructs available at low levels. Also, no reason a character can't have both craft construct and levels in effigy master.

My artificer used extraordinary artisan, legendary, and magic artisan to create SUPERCHEAP(GP and XP wise) effigies you can make them even cheaper with elemental binding(5% off for every size category above medium so huge elementals are 10% off base).

I specialized in Remorrhaz effigies. Now Remorrhaz effigies are SPLENDID grapplers, and that eating people ability is great along with the 6d6 fire damage(which they get because it's an ex ability). Eventually i upgraded the thing with tungsten rods for 8d6 fire damage. Since Remorrhaz are easy to make at level 5(artificer) and are upgradable to... about 14hd.

I sent in a 12 hd remorrhaz effigy into the arena in singles matches... It came out as the champion beating the other party member who was a War Hulk only a couple levels later threw an asteroid into space(With my help buffing him to colossal size). It took out the singles matches easy peasy. Also the group matches. Betting on these matches i made over... 40 million gp or so. This was in a magical city in an Arena MADE ENTIRELY OF GOLD. Also the mafia wanted me dead. Millions of gold was spent into research and purchasing of materials such as mana crystals which are a million or so each.

Also i accidentally created space capable rocket engines after binding an Elemental Monolith of Fire into a Red Mana crystal(gm's setting its crystallized destruction magic) . This has led to the continent my artificer is on now having Rocket Powered Remorrhaz TRAINS. He designed the Train system for the continent and it's rocket powered remorrhaz's that have silence fields dampening their rocket engines.


But i took the effigies a step FURTHER perhaps even... BEYOND

Now uh... to explain my GM gave me an item that let me count as 4 levels higher for crafting items... This put me in the bracket to create a scroll of wish. I used the scroll of Wish and combined my first Remorrhaz Effigy(REM), A wyvern effigy i made, and a prismatic golem. This unholy abomination was named Ridremish and it had 38 hitdice. Oh and also threw in a rocket engine. Ridremish was a beast but he sadly died grappling a corrupted dragon(GM's setting calls em shoggoths) holding it in place to be hit by the mana cannon I developed. Turns out the cannon expelled all the evil corruption out of the dragon and it was now corrupting ridremish. Then my god ate him to spare the corruption and to restore some of his power. I didn't make another Ridremish and isntead opted to just create legions of Rocket Powered Remorrhazes instead.

But yeah uh now the GM's setting for the time being has a Supercarrier class Airship flying around that sends out hordes of Rocket Power Remorrhazes that sound like R2D2 that purge corrupt aberrations in fire. Also i may or may not have caused a god war...

You may think this entire game is insane... and it is. The War Hulk took a bite out of the core of the living incarnation of rage and is now fused with it. He has around 70 or so strength buffed. I didn't even have any damage spell wands/staffs it was just buffs. I just let the Remorrhaz effigies and Ridremish do the fighting for me. I would just have them grapple whatever we were fighting and barbeque it to death or the War Hulk would cleave through everything.

Being an artificer in my gms setting is truly great. He also said Artificers are no longer allowed

[unseenmage]

The biggest benefit to any kind of minionmancy is action economy. You get more actions than the enemy so you dominate the fight.

That said, look into Elder Eidolons from Lords of Madness IIRC. They are Effigy's bigger badder madder brother.

Also ask if you can use Awaken Construct and Simulacrum for sentient obedient intelligent Effigies.
Either Awaken the effigy first then make a Simulacrum copy of the result or, GM willing, just make a Sim of the theoretical Awakened Simulacrum.
This is less for combat, more for utility.

Rudimentary Intelligence from Dragon Magazine is nice too.

The best intelligent Construct minions are Sacred Guardians from Bestiary of Krynn revised. Though they require dedication to a faith they come with the most/best superpowers.

Intelligent Effigies will get skills and feats. The Best Generic Feats link in my extended sig lists the best feats that have the fewest pretequisites that minions can benefit most from.


Also consider that the Amalgam creature template (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/amalgam-creature-cr-special/) (the link is PF but the template is largely unchanged from the 3.x one) from the 3rd party book Advanced Bestiary allows one to combine any two creatures and that any creature combined with a Construct results in a Construct.
Using Pathfinder's Price by CR guidelines is best but you might ask your GM if building Amalgam Effigies is possible. It could net your creations superpowers that could keep them relavant for longer.