Combat Oracle

[Palanan]

What would be the best options for an oracle who mixes it up in combat?

I’m looking at the Warsighted archetype from the ACG, which doesn’t seem to be mentioned often in build suggestions. Is this worth centering a build around? I’m looking for an oracle that’s primarily a support role, healing and some BFC, but able to hold its own in direct combat as well.

All official Paizo sources are on the table. Bonus points for any creepy or horror-themed elements.

[Geddy2112]

When you say, "mixes it up in combat" but also "support role, healing, BFC, and then combat" which one are you focusing on most?

One way to do frontline oracle is bad touch with negative energy. The lunar mystery is really strong in this regard as you can add confusion to the damage, locking down enemies as you damage them. That said, if you know bonus inflict spells your healing potential is reduced significantly as you have to spend spells known on cure X wounds.An Oradin is an incredibly strong healer that can support and fight well in melee(extra thanks to paladin) and provide support. The battle mystery gives access to heavy armor, martial weapons, and tons of in combat boosts, as well as SLA ironskin which is nothing to sneeze at. Lunar and nature oracles can get an animal companion for extra beatsticking, and both can dump dexterity thanks to revelations that use CHA instead of dex for AC. Metal and wood are both good for melee. A lot of mysteries can get in class armor for hours/day=level, allowing you to buy a spiffier weapon and don armor quickly for combat, and at higher leevls be armored all day. Really, most mysteries can be suited for melee combat. If you want spooky, the occult or bones mystery might be the ticket, and you can take the haunted curse(although there are plenty other creepy/horror ones)

Lets not even get started on using strength vs dex. Or worship desna and use a starknife, allowing you to use CHA to attack and damage rolls. Throw that on top of a mystery that allows you to use CHA for AC and saves(or CMB) and throw strength and dex down a well.

With access to the cleric spell list, you can pick and choose a la carte BFC/support spells and that has no real impact on your melee ability. A heavy caster oracle focused on spells might not be as much of a fighter but it is doable as a secondary.

As far as the best, you have to narrow it down to what is your key priority-dealing damage, buffing, etc. Oracles are tier 2 classes and can already do almost everything, it is more about your particular interest.

[grarrrg]

I’m looking for an oracle that’s primarily a support role, healing and some BFC, but able to hold its own in direct combat as well.

Like the other guy said, are you looking for "combat" or "generalist"?

If leaning more towards combat, Battle looks pretty solid, and has a few 'support'ish revelations.


Warsighted is likely frowned at because it's only useful if/when you are directly attacking things, but attacking things means you likely aren't casting (or using casting to full potential), and casting is your main ability so...eh, could do worse.

[Boggartbae]

Juju mysteries with the spirit vessels revelation brings a lot of martial capability to the party.

The fate’s favoured trait combines nicely with divine power/favour.

That’s what I would do. Play a necromancer who makes use of the standard cleric buff spells. You’re not as good at fighting by yourself, but your zombies more than make up for it.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
When you say, "mixes it up in combat" but also "support role, healing, BFC, and then combat" which one are you focusing on most?

Probably support and healing would be the top priority, with BFC and direct combat as secondary objectives.


Originally Posted by Geddy2112
If you want spooky, the occult or bones mystery might be the ticket, and you can take the haunted curse(although there are plenty other creepy/horror ones)….

What are some of the other creepy/horror ones? Bones and Occult both look interesting, but I’m open to creepier options.


Originally Posted by grarrrg
Warsighted is likely frowned at because it's only useful if/when you are directly attacking things, but attacking things means you likely aren't casting (or using casting to full potential), and casting is your main ability so...eh, could do worse.

Yeah, that does make sense. From that perspective, a Warsighted oracle almost seems like a contradiction.


Originally Posted by Boggartbae
Juju mysteries with the spirit vessels revelation brings a lot of martial capability to the party.

Interesting, although juju almost seems like its own mini-subsystem. Some of the revelations have to do with fetishes and whatnot, which seems a little too involved for what I need.

[grarrrg]

Probably support and healing would be the top priority, with BFC and direct combat as secondary objectives.
...
What are some of the other creepy/horror ones? Bones and Occult both look interesting, but I’m open to creepier options.

Since you're looking to fill multiple roles you could go mix-n-match with Spirit Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo-oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) Oracle. Pick your 'primary' Mystery, and then depending on the whims of the day grab the Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/) that most appeals to you.

[Pex]

Warrior-type Mysteries I can think of right now.

Battle, Metal, Ancestor, Dark Tapestry

Spells

Choose spells that buff you in combat. They can also buff others if support is needed. Splash in a few remove affliction spells (Remove Paralysis, Remove Fear, etc.). If you aren't casting attack spells then Charisma doesn't need to be so high to have more Strength and Constitution. Obviously you will need 19 CH to cast 9th level spells. but you aren't in a rush.

If permissible, play a human or half-human and take as your favored class bonus the extra spells known feature. That'll help get you support spells as you concentrate on combat spells.

Consider taking Extra Revelation feat a few times. Get the ones you really want as soon as possible.

Curse

Do not take Haunted or Clouded Vision.

Lame is not ideal, but you're no worse than a slow speed PC race or someone in heavy armor.

[Geddy2112]

Probably support and healing would be the top priority, with BFC and direct combat as secondary objectives.
This is pretty much any oracle that knows cure spells as bonus spells. The cleric spell list is full of nice supportive buffs, from the humble bless, to blessings of fervor, and many more. Depending on your mystery you get others. Since you can wear medium armor, if you don't dump strength and carry a 2 handed weapon, even something as simple as a quarterstaff, you can go into melee. Again, some mysteries give martial proficiency and you might get something fun from your race(half orc and falchion).


What are some of the other creepy/horror ones? Bones and Occult both look interesting, but I’m open to creepier options.
Thats kind of subjective, but dark tapestry and juju are probably the other creepy mysteries. How you play an oracle of any mystery can be creepy-you can go life oracle and gift people parts of your essence and be really creepy about it.

Most of the oracle curses help with the horror theme-accursed,consumed, ghoul, haunted, lich, plagued,possessed,promethean, vampirism, wasting, wrecking mysticism, and a zillion more third party ones. Most of these screw with your health, body, or mind, making it fall apart/rot/langor/be disguising.

Being a creepy or horror based character can be any class, alignment, whatever. Oracle has options to spice it up, but with some window dressing/reskinning powers, you can make anything creepy.

Also second spirit guide, as it is REALLY good.

[Boggartbae]

Interesting, although juju almost seems like its own mini-subsystem. Some of the revelations have to do with fetishes and whatnot, which seems a little too involved for what I need.

That one revelation is really all you need; it could be the only one you take and your character would still be really strong due to the nature of animate dead, but I see what you mean. I don't actually understand juju fetishes either.

No matter what you end up doing though, just make sure that you know desecrate and animate dead, and the total HP and DPS of your character will probably beat the rest of the party combined.

[tadkins]

Had my own plan for a fighting Oracle character; Winter Oracle + VMC Magus.

Take Broad Study for one of my Magus arcana, apply inflict spells to spellstrike for damage. Use the various ice spells the Winter Oracle gets to protect me and disorient my foes.

Basically a rough draft but that's what I have plans for to use in a game someday.

[Treblain]

I like Warsighted because you can get back the lost revelations from the Extra Revelation feat and the Ring of Revelation.

Battle and Metal mysteries have a revelation for martial weapon and heavy armor proficiency, but it's not worth tying your character down for that alone. Getting a better weapon from a racial trait would be ideal. Half-orcs can get proficiency with greataxes and falchions and can also get a bite attack, so they're a great race overall. Nature or Lore mysteries can get Cha to replace Dex to AC, so you don't need to spend a feat on heavy armor, and the feat Noble Scion can get Cha to initiative, which frees up for more Strength and Con. However, dumping Dex means missing out on some feats.

In terms of combat, you don't have as much to gain from focusing on full attacks since you get multiple attacks later and you may be moving around to cast at times instead of staying in melee constantly. This makes Furious Focus and possibly Vital Strike better for you. Intimidate with Cornugon Smash can also work since you've got Charisma. Cleave and the feats that require it can be useful to pick up with Warsighted.

[Florian]

What would be the best options for an oracle who mixes it up in combat?

Bonus points for any creepy or horror-themed elements.

Basics: Samsaran with Mystic Past Life ART to get some specific spells of the Paladin spell list, a one-level dip into Cleric to get an aura of good, rest mostly Oracle (Spirit Guide) with Dark Tapestry mystery and a Dark Tapestry spirit for creep factor, sprinkle in some levels of Stargazer PrC to add a bit more all-round utility. Feats go towards full archery mode and monstrous companion to get a flying mount. Net result is something like a DPS monster.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Pex
…Dark Tapestry…

This is just perfect, thanks.

Any suggestions on Dark-Tapestry-themed cleric spells?


Originally Posted by grarrrg
Since you're looking to fill multiple roles you could go mix-n-match with Spirit Guide Oracle.

Spirit Guide Oracle looks interesting, but also complicated. I’ve always steered clear of the shaman, so I’m not familiar with how the spirits work, and on first glance this looks like hella lotta options to wade through.


Originally Posted by Florian
Basics: Samsaran with Mystic Past Life ART to get some specific spells of the Paladin spell list….

Which specific spells do you mean?

And what are ART and DPS?

[Florian]

Which specific spells do you mean?

And what are ART and DPS?

Mainly Saddle Surge, Litany of Righteousness (*), Bestow Aura (*) and Huntmaster´s Spear.
Oracle spells, mostly Deadly Juggernaut (replace with Divine Power later), Divine Vessel, Holy Javelin
Get someone to cast Greater Named Bullet on your weapon/ammunition.

ART = Alternate Racial Traits, DPS = Damage Per Shot.

(*) The reason to dip a class with an Aura of Good, which the Oracle normaly doesn't have.

[upho]

DPS = Damage Per Shot.In your first post, I guess you used "DPS" as a casual short-hand term for damage output capacity in a general. But what you're saying here isn't quite true, and I'm feeling really nitpicky today... So here's some largely unneeded and OT nerdy nitpicky corrections and explanations:

DPS actually stands for Damage Per Second (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Damage_per_second). It's the computer/video RPG version of the original pen and paper RPG concept/measure DPR - Damage Per Round. So DPR is the relevant and appropriate term for this forum.

Perhaps more importantly, DPR (and DPS) as an actual measure is quite a bit more elaborate than "damage per shot", as it typically also takes hit chance, crit chance and total number of attacks per round into account, all typically measured against the target "average" values of a monster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation) of a CR equal to the PC's level. See for example this thread (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi&page=1?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or-What-are-we) on the Paizo boards for more about DPR in Pathfinder.

....

Oh yeah, that nerd-preaching nitpicking did feel good... :smallredface: Thanks for providing me with an outlet Florian! :smallbiggrin:

[Florian]

Thanks for providing me with an outlet Florian! :smallbiggrin:

Research, then nitpick ;)

You know that this is mostly a "Lancer Paladin" setup to one-shot a target at the end of a mounted charge, adapted to work with thrown weapons and iterative attacks (sans Smite Evil, but we didn't go there ... yet)?

[upho]

Research, then nitpick ;)Exactly! Just look at all those nice links showing where I went to search for nitpicks - Wikipedia, Paizo boards, d20pfsrd. Proper nerd-style nitpicking needs proper research! :smallwink:


You know that this is mostly a "Lancer Paladin" setup to one-shot a target at the end of a mounted charge, adapted to work with thrown weapons and iterative attacks (sans Smite Evil, but we didn't go there ... yet)?Oh, so that's why "Feats go towards full archery mode..."! I was intrigued by that part, I must admit. You were very good at providing details without disclosing anything about the actual mechanical concept beyond "spirit, mounted, ranged". And now "a "Lancer Paladin" setup" with "thrown weapons"...

Hmm... Throwing lance with mounted charge shenanigans and Charging Hurler?

That might work... Except the "work with... ...iterative attacks" doesn't make any sense in that case. Damn!

Anyhow, I guess "some specific spells of the Paladin spell list" refer to mount related stuff to buff the spirit mount?

But why "a one-level dip into Cleric to get an aura of good"? :smallconfused:

Ugh! Crap, I feel I don't know nearly enough about the finer details of oracle mechanics! :smallannoyed: Please don't keep us in the dark any longer, we wanna know how "Florian's Lancer-Pally-Style Throwing Annihilator Oracle" works!

[Florian]

@upho:

(Hurt my wrist and got it in a cast, no real patience to type one-handed)

The Lancer basics are simple: Get high static damage bonus (STR bonus, buffs (esp. Saddle Surge), Smite Evil), slap on straight damage multipliers (Spirited Charge, Litany of Righteousness (see Aura of Good(*, ***))). Charge the target for one big hit.

First, look up Serafinas Archer Cleric build, which has been reposted on this subforum quite often and has very good explanations on how the mechanics fit together.

I(**) just modified it to work with spears/lances to also be melee viable and work smoother with some of the Oracle-specific mechanics.

(*) Can be done with other classes then Cleric, namely Inquisitor and Paladin (which would be favorable).

(**) Helped a player create one for Wrath of the Righteous. That one used a one-level Inquisitor dip, the Mammoth spirit and Nature Mystery. My suggestion for Dark Tapestry is only in because the OP wanted something creepy and the ability to call a Shantak and equip it with a Howdah of Leisurely Travel is pretty cool.

(***) Btw, same problem with any summoning focused Oracle build and Superior Summoning.

Got a gathering with my political party this afternoon, if it turns out as boring as I expect it to be, I´ll take my time and write up a more or less full build.

Edit: Between Improved Hurling Charge, Flinging Charge and weapon-like spells like Holy Javelin, it gets absurd.