I think I'm a problem player, help? (Power gamer)

[Drache64]

I've had to take some self evaluation and I think I'm a power gamer and potentially a problem player. So here goes:

Hello everyone, my name is Drache64 and I'm a problem player...

I am the oldest player in my group and taught many of my group D&D in the first place. We've been playing for 5 years together and I've been the DM for most that time with breaks taken to let others give it a try for a few one shots. I love mechanics and character building, in my free time I just tweak build after build. Most of the group are still at "make my character for me" level despite loving the game. My most serious Players are starting to really come into their own but only know their class skills and spells and rarely they take a peek at a few feats.

My problems are two-fold, my builds usually outshine all the others even when I try to build a character focused on fun (lizardfolk barbarian druid, Pacifist cleric of Pelor, human tempest cleric) to this group having at AC of 20 alone is enough to imbalance me compared to the others. I'm not 100% altruistic, I do enjoy power gaming, I'll spend a week or two in intense study and digging up other books and reading forums, I want my time spent to be reflected when we play so I can't just pick bad stats and a mundane class. Playing a half orc wizard just isn't for me and if I tried I'd spend two weeks stacking it to work, it's my curse. This is also not my first group, I used to play with another group for years before we parted ways, just due to life, and we all had level 17-20 characters, so things that amaze and impress my current group at level 1-5 aren't as flashy to me. The highest level we've run is at level 7.

My other problem is that after being a DM for years and now being a player, I have split personality character creation ADD. I can't pin down one character I really enjoy. I like them all and when I play a paladin I miss my druid, when I play my druid I miss my monk, etc. It's not just the class skills, it's the acting and the personality. I love getting into character as a barbarian one week and then a devout cleric the next. This wasn't a problem when we ran one shots every week, but now my group is turned onto critical role and wants to pick characters and keep them for a few years.

Any self help books I can read? Just kidding, but in all seriousness any tips? I'm expecting quite a few people to say something like "just stop being a problem" so thanks for those comments in advance, but actual tips or recommendations to my new DM would be appreciated.

[Aett_Thorn]

I don't really see a problem with what you're doing. You're not setting out to truly outshine the other players, they just seem to have no idea how to even somewhat optimize. I would say that trying to be an example to show them what they CAN do if they put some thought into it would be a good thing.

As for the multiple character issue, how open would the DM be to allowing you to have a split personality? You probably wouldn't be able to have different stats for the two characters, but you might be able to make one a Bard and the other a Warlock (or one a Fighter the other a Paladin, etc.), and each long rest you switch personalities. Neither personality knows about the other.

[Mikal]

You're not the problem player.
Anyone who's been playing for 5 years, yet is still in the "make my character for me" phase is the problem player...

[Emay Ecks]

Hi Drache64.

I'm Emay Ecks, and I'm a power gamer.

I both play and dm right now, and I'm definitely a power gamer in both regards.

Here's how I get around my issues:

-As a dm, I introduce the characters I've built to the party as allies or antagonists (usually antagonists). This really helps me with those urges to play a new character with a new personality frequently. This week the party is fighting a druid of decay and death, next it's going to be a halfling ranger/rogue assassin who strikes from the shadows, and then a Dragonborn Oath of Conquest Paladin who uses the new roar feat to frighten the party. I have fun building them (and playing them) and don't mind when the party murder them (because by that point I've usually finished building the next character). The players enjoy this because they get to fight all sorts of weird and crazy villains who they know they could build to play as if they really wanted to. When they see me do something cool, they keep it in mind and potentially incorporate it into their builds (slowly converting my own players into power gamers, too. Muhahahahahaha)

-As a player, I know my builds are usually a full head above everyone else's at my table. When building a character, I try to build one that shores up the party's weak points or is designed to help other characters shine. This way, I don't steal the spotlight, and I lets the other players stand out more(which in turn, makes me enjoy the character I've made because they are doing their job). I tend to give my characters a significant weakness or character flaw that usually puts them on par with everyone else in the party (the character is a raging alcoholic, compulsive liar, compulsive truthteller, refuses to be the one to deal the final blow to an enemy). Once I've designed the character, I run it by the rest of the group (dm and players) to make sure that they are all ok with both the flaw and the power level of the character. If someone feels like the build outshines theirs or that the flaw is too irritating, I make adjustments until everyone is happy with my character. One thing I make sure to not do is tell everyone else how they should be building their characters or taking their turns. If they ask me what I think, I'm more than happy to tell them, but I'll only offer advice if asked.

As a player, it's hard to know if the character you've built is going to be a winner who you want to stick with for a while. I'd recommend a more versatile class (bard, druid, cleric, paladin, ranger, rogue) and then keeping in touch with your dm about potential changes you may want to make as the game progresses. This way you can keep the character interesting and limit yourself to one player. You may also want to get involved in a second game (time permitting) that lets you play all the other characters who you have the urge to play. Hope this was helpful!

[Zanthy1]

It sounds to me like your players are just lazy. 5 years and they still want you to do the work for them? If they do not want to read a little extra or look online for inspiration, thats not on you at all.

I do emphasize with having so many build ideas, that's something that I only get around by introducing the characters into my stories as NPCs, sometimes baddies but not always.

[strangebloke]

Sounds like a fun group!

I mean this in all seriousness. If they're not going gaga for the crunch, that means that they're going gaga for the fluff, which is actually awesome!

I don't know that I'm qualified to tell you what to do, but here goes.

In my limited experience, more 'fluffy' players tend to enjoy shining as either damage dealers or skill monkeys. For optimization, focus on someone who spends most rounds doing something other than damage. An open hand monk optimized for stunning fist and knockdowns and grapples. A wizard with stinking cloud, fear, etc. An ancestral barbarian who takes all the hits. A super-healer cleric/druid multiclass. This will make everyone else feel a lot more cool, since they'll be dealing the damage. They won't feel overshadowed, because your function is relatively narrow, and really just assists them in being more awesome.

What you don't want to be is Batman. Don't have a solution for every problem. Don't insinuate yourself into every in character discussion.

The other issue, that you like switching characters is... well, kinda unsolvable. I'll tell you what worked for me, though. In general I get the desire to switch character when I read something online about someone else's cool character. The only thing I can offer here is to keep a record of funny/cool IC things your character did. Before each session, 'remind' yourself why the current character you're playing is cool.

[Drache64]

Right now my goal is to see if my DM will allow me to play my two favorite characters. One is the leader of the group but tends to not get his hands dirty unless he has to. The other is his attendant/herald (in Pathfinder/3.5 he was a cohort). He's a rather stoic character who doesn't take action without cause and if usually a level behind.

Both characters' play style naturally pushes me behind the scenes so the other players can take the lead for action and talking and I only have minor input and I'm perfectly happy with that. Then each mission I can decide if my main character decided this was an important enough mission to attend personally or if he just sent his attendant.

Though I like the idea of split personality, that would actually fit either of their back stories perfectly. But I feel bad being that player who's looking for so many accommodations.

As I touched on a little before, cohorts used to be a great way to appease me in the past as I would always take leadership or play a thrallherd or something, then I would just pick Wich cohort/thrall I sent on each mission and it was a great semi-rules based story driven way to make this work and the cohorts being a level or two behind the party helped with the power builds. But 5e doesn't support this system.

[Drache64]

I was typing while others were replying, I just read all the great advice, I love the idea of introducing NPC's but I'm not the DM anymore (new guy is really enjoying it and I'm happy to step back for a year or more lol, I still DM side missions when he misses a session).

I also appreciate the advice about creating flawed support characters.

You guys are giving me great tips!

[nickl_2000]

Right now my goal is to see if my DM will allow me to play my two favorite characters. One is the leader of the group but tends to not get his hands dirty unless he has to. The other is his attendant/herald (in Pathfinder/3.5 he was a cohort). He's a rather stoic character who doesn't take action without cause and if usually a level behind.

Both characters' play style naturally pushes me behind the scenes so the other players can take the lead for action and talking and I only have minor input and I'm perfectly happy with that. Then each mission I can decide if my main character decided this was an important enough mission to attend personally or if he just sent his attendant.


So I know why you would want to do this. I have about 10 different character running around in my mind right now that I would like to play. So, the idea of having two players would certainly be something that would be interesting to me (actually my DM was complaining about the power of my Moon Druid and expressing frustration at his ripping through combat encounters, so I offered to kill him off if it would make it more fun for the DM).

I would advise against having more than one character that you control. You make characters that are better than others and would shine in many different situation, and based on your post I would guess that they would work together skillwise very effectively. So, you have the potential to outshine others all the time. I did see that both characters are one who live in the background, but it would be very difficult to not step in when you know you could be doing a better job.

My suggestion is talk to the DM. See if you can make the two characters you want to play as brothers, who trade off who is in the party between visits home. Maybe they need to take care of their parents and take turns doing so. Maybe they need to run a tavern, but both need to get out and adventure. This would probably scratch the itch of playing multiple characters without having the worry of taking over the party encounters with multiple characters.

[GlenSmash!]

One of the best ways I use curb my own power gaming habits was to challenge myself to build the best character I could with certain restrictions.

Like, using point buy, build a character than never has a stat higher than 14. How would I make up for not having a Max Main stat? I looked for sources of advantage, or other re-rolls like Lucky or Elven accuracy. It turns out a Barbarian with 14 Strength but using Reckless Attack and Lucky on misses still hits an awful lot. With Prodigy giving expertise in athletics, and Rage giving advantage he's even great at grappling despite not having a +3 from 20 strength.

Likewise a 14 Dex Samurai (or 14 Cha Hexblade, or 14 Dex Gloom Stalker) with Elven Accuracy and Lucky will do well too.

This lets me still experiment with builds, but not bring a character to the table that completely overshadows the other members of the party.

You could try playing a few games with characters like this, and see if they still overshadow your party members, who I assume are at least increasing their main stat?

As far as fear of missing out on playing other classes I can only see two solutions. Try weird multi-class options, or play in several groups.

[jaappleton]

I'm John Appleton. I'm a power gamer.

First, we all need to clarify some things:

Is it power gaming if its necessary to do in order survive the campaign? As in, your DM's rating of a Deadly Encounter is really his Easy Encounter?

Second, is it power gaming, or optimizing? Wood Elf Ranger with Sharpshooter is hardly power gaming. That's optimizing, things just synergize. Of course you want all the parts of your build to work well together.

Now, that said... If your build is totally outshining everyone else, and rendering them useless? You need to scale back. It's rough going for the Rogue when you're out-Rogueing the Rogue, y'know?

However, do the other players even mind? I've been a Half Orc Barbarian before, and I rolled insanely well. I was constantly destroying stuff with GWM, and I was basically made of HP. The rest of the party was a Paladin and a Fighter, we were all Strength based melee fighters. At first, they got a bit jealous, but we adjusted our expectations a bit and figured out how to utilize one another. During one battle, the BBEG summoned for his allies. I planted myself in the doorway, and ensured nobody got through, while my allies hammered away at the BBEG. They got to shine by taking him out, and I shined by making sure we didn't get overwhelmed. I've had other parties where we'd buff the heck out of someone, and then had them decimate things. That person was so good at their task BECAUSE of other party members.

Your other problem, TC? That's tougher to help with. Your desire to constantly switch characters. I suffer from it myself. If you're a Paladin, for example, sure you have excellent saving throws... But if you were a Rogue or Monk, having Evasion means you wouldn't have taken any damage from that Fireball. If you're a Fighter, you have to climb that mountain, but as a Druid or Wizard, you could Wild Shape or Fly to the top. So whenever you see a situation where your current build can't handle it too well, you yearn for the one that can.

What helped me tremendously is that I had to stop playing builds. Just... Stop. Walk away from the blank character sheets. Have a drink, and ask yourself, "WHO is the character?" You've been asking "WHAT is this character?", and that's nowhere near the same question. And I know they aren't mutually exclusive, Stormwind Fallacy and such, Optimization doesn't mean you lack RP. I know. But really think, what have you been making? Builds, or characters? If you've been making builds, as I was, ask yourself what character you want to play.

[Demonslayer666]

A character with a crazy high AC doesn't make that player a problem (nor does any other highly efficient area for that matter). It's the DM's job to properly challenge the party. If it's a problem, it's the DM that needs to adjust to the player, IMO. Advice to the new DM on dealing with a high AC player: area damage, spells, traps, or more enemies will help even out the challenge. If you have other example of characters, I can try to give more advice on challenging them.

If you truly want to get away from power gaming, you are going to have to stop lining everything up for the biggest bonus. Baby steps at first, don't jump into a halforc wizard just yet, take the race with a lower bonus, and your second highest stat roll in your primary stat.

In my games, I discourage min/maxing because a couple of my players do not care about the mechanics of the game, and never max. It's not as important to be highly efficient, because I'll adjust the difficulty anyway so there are a range of easy to deadly encounters. I try to have everyone focus on playing what ever they want, rather than making efficiency important.

If they are letting you make the characters, aren't they all highly efficient? :smallsmile:

[Potato_Priest]

Hello, my name is Potato_Priest, and I'm a bossy player (I have a really hard time not telling people what to do in combat)

Do you have problems overshadowing your group even when you're a cleric? In my opinion, powergamers make the best clerics, since we know exactly what to do to keep everyone alive and kicking ass. Many of the cleric's spells and abilities are support, protection, or utility based, so you can serve as a roadblock and abjuration machine without overshadowing anyone.

I often play clerics nowadays just to give the new folks a chance to be badasses.

As for switching character syndrome- not much you can do about that. Maybe these other folks' advice will work?

[jaappleton]

Hello, my name is Potato_Priest, and I'm a bossy player (I have a really hard time not telling people what to do in combat)

Do you have problems overshadowing your group even when you're a cleric? In my opinion, powergamers make the best clerics, since we know exactly what to do to keep everyone alive and kicking ass. Many of the cleric's spells and abilities are support, protection, or utility based, so you can serve as a roadblock and abjuration machine without overshadowing anyone.

I often play clerics nowadays just to give the new folks a chance to be badasses.

As for switching character syndrome- not much you can do about that. Maybe these other folks' advice will work?

Emphasis mine.

This is largely why I love 5E Clerics so much. Powergaming the hell out of a Cleric means you're just making everyone else in the group that much better. :smallbiggrin:

[Biggstick]

Totally agreed with the above comments on Cleric. You're not really going to be taking any combat spotlight as a Cleric unless it's a swarm of Undead or Fiends in front of You, and even then it would be tough!

Someone else above mentioned playing a character, not a build. This is 100 percent what I'd recommend. You can have something you find fun or interesting as an idea for your build, but playing the Character will keep you interested in the single PC.

[robbie374]

You can turn any character into a support character, too, not just pick support-character style classes. Nearly every character can be used to disrupt enemies: just make your primary tactic not "I'm going to win this encounter" but instead "I'm going to make the enemies' lives as inconvenient and annoying as possible, and the opposite for my allies." You can then start creating distractions, knocking people over, creating cover, grappling, throwing nets, disarming, etc., which requires creativity and has a big impact but requires your allies to actually finish the job.

[MadBear]

Hello My name is Madbear, and I too am a power gamer.

I found the best way to mitigate this in games was to focus on being the best support class possible. This was especially true in 3.5 and pathfinder. In order to not overshadow the group, or make myself seem better then everyone else, I focused on making a character who would:

- Spend their time making other players look badass
- Alter the terrain to set my other players up to kick butt
- Debuff the enemy in order to allow my allies to finish them off

Basically, I powergamed in such a way that I was the brightest limelight you'd ever seen, but the other non-optimized gamers got to feel great about getting to constantly kick butt. I mean sure, you don't get to kill the BBEG as often, but you're likely then one, blocking off his allies, buffing your allies, and practically tying him down to be carved up by your friends.

This didn't stop the power gaming, but it did result in the other players not noticing/caring that my character was way more optimized then theirs.

[Laserlight]

Hello, my name is Inigo....ahem....Laserlight, and I'm a power gamer. And I've been wargaming and playing D&D longer than the rest of my group combined--something about being twice their age, I suppose.

Usually I build either A) a buffer with very limited attacks (the "I don't attack with my dagger, I attack using the Barbarian" school), or B) a character who is unable to function as leader due to low INT / CHA / mental stability. Something to make sure the others get the limelight.

For my next character, I'm contemplating either a cleric or a bard. If a bard, I'd be able to praise the rest of the party in character. "Who are we, you ask? He is Rata the Invincible, slayer of the white dragon! And she, Ariella Stormcalled, famed from Baldur's Gate to the northern ice! And I am their humble servant and chronicler, let me tell you of their glory!"

[Drache64]

Thanks all! My pacifist cleric of pelor fit in well and I played him for many sessions, alas... Character switch ADD kicked in

[Drache64]

Though I guess the problem solved itself because my DM got burned out with my group and I'm the DM again lol

[GlenSmash!]

Though I guess the problem solved itself because my DM got burned out with my group and I'm the DM again lol

Ha! What timing!

[SharkForce]

yeah, you may want to consider a "god wizard" as another option. (doesn't have to be a wizard, you could totally do it with druid or bard too, and to some extent with any full caster). don't mind the name, it probably isn't what you're thinking, unless you're familiar with treantmonk's guide (which you should read).

the basic objective is to min/max your way into solving the problem... while leaving your "champions" feeling like they did everything themselves. like a greek god, manipulating things, giving their favoured mortals the tools they need to get the job done, working entirely behind the scenes in such a way that their presence is unnoticed.

that way, you get to have your fun (you're optimized like crazy), but so do the rest of the party (done well enough, they won't even notice that you're doing much, and in any event if what you're doing with great effectiveness just sets them up for awesomeness they can hardly complain).

[nickl_2000]

Though I guess the problem solved itself because my DM got burned out with my group and I'm the DM again lol

Wooo?!? (Added for length)

[Pex]

I'm a power gamer and refuse to apologize for it.

[Hyde]

The "everyone is in the 'make a character for me phase' bit" really seems strange to me.

That one or two could still not have a great grasp of things, that makes sense, but five other people supposedly enthusiastically enjoying the game having no clue? That's weird to me.

I won't say it's impossible that that's the case, but I would examine the possibility that your olympian DnD knowledge and expertise has stunted the others' growth as players and builders, something of a crutch, I guess?

I'm not saying it's definitely the case, but it seems strange otherwise.

[Estrillian]

One little thing to add that I didn't see anyone else mention — don't focus on the character's abilities, the class, etc. Focus on the roleplaying, your motivations, your history, backstory, goals. Those things can still be compelling (heck, for many people far more compelling than rules) but harder to power-game. Not impossible, mind you, you get story power gamers as well, who monopolise the rp with their overpowered storylines, but it's *harder*.

[Spore]

Hello, I am Sporeegg and I am a character shizophrenic. :smallsmile:


The "everyone is in the 'make a character for me phase' bit" really seems strange to me.

I played for two years with a group like that with Pathfinder. Didn't dial back my character - though certainly didn't pick a tier 1 class in a group with tier 4 - but picked a character to fill the niches.

It took a while but my preferred playstyle is support anyway. So I decided to spread my character's ressources out because I enjoy being flexible in both filling niches and varying character gameplay. The things I played because of that were:

1) A Human Ancestor's Oracle - would translate into a buff focussed favored/divine soul sorcerer. She could heal, she could buff and she could curse her enemies into crippled useless piles of HP. Intentionally left her defenseless in real combat (simple robes instead of armor, no weapon, just a limited summon as a stand-in).

2) Tiefling Alchemist/Investigator - would probably translate into Tiefling Alchemist Artificer. He just had an elixir for anything. If I was bored of a formula, I just researched for another. I had the job to frontline and be the bruiser (as our heavily armored dwarf was usually too slow), to cover knowledge checks. And I was always the one guy to deal with the Erinnye, to be the guy who loots the dead people because desecrating corpses is okay, when they wear magical stuff.

3) Halfling Cavalier/Paladin - probs my favorite build. Fighter Knight/Devotion Paladin in 5e. He was a great character. He did ubercharge for a gazillion damage! He was always risking his life for foreigners. He would give known necromancers and murderers a second chance (and a third, and a fourth). His flaw was his optimistic character.

And honestly, power gamers make decisions because the PLAYER decided the best course of action. Optimizers just bring a powerful character but act like the character ingame, with better results than the "I had my character built for me" dudes.

You might provoke the reaction: "You are better at xyz than my character! That is so unfair." then proceed to ask who made your character and tell them you put effort in and you want a result. Life is not perfectly fair, so why should roleplaying be?

[Citan]

I've had to take some self evaluation and I think I'm a power gamer and potentially a problem player. So here goes:

Hello everyone, my name is Drache64 and I'm a problem player...

I am the oldest player in my group and taught many of my group D&D in the first place. We've been playing for 5 years together and I've been the DM for most that time with breaks taken to let others give it a try for a few one shots. I love mechanics and character building, in my free time I just tweak build after build. Most of the group are still at "make my character for me" level despite loving the game. My most serious Players are starting to really come into their own but only know their class skills and spells and rarely they take a peek at a few feats.

My problems are two-fold, my builds usually outshine all the others even when I try to build a character focused on fun (lizardfolk barbarian druid, Pacifist cleric of Pelor, human tempest cleric) to this group having at AC of 20 alone is enough to imbalance me compared to the others. I'm not 100% altruistic, I do enjoy power gaming, I'll spend a week or two in intense study and digging up other books and reading forums, I want my time spent to be reflected when we play so I can't just pick bad stats and a mundane class. Playing a half orc wizard just isn't for me and if I tried I'd spend two weeks stacking it to work, it's my curse. This is also not my first group, I used to play with another group for years before we parted ways, just due to life, and we all had level 17-20 characters, so things that amaze and impress my current group at level 1-5 aren't as flashy to me. The highest level we've run is at level 7.

My other problem is that after being a DM for years and now being a player, I have split personality character creation ADD. I can't pin down one character I really enjoy. I like them all and when I play a paladin I miss my druid, when I play my druid I miss my monk, etc. It's not just the class skills, it's the acting and the personality. I love getting into character as a barbarian one week and then a devout cleric the next. This wasn't a problem when we ran one shots every week, but now my group is turned onto critical role and wants to pick characters and keep them for a few years.

Any self help books I can read? Just kidding, but in all seriousness any tips? I'm expecting quite a few people to say something like "just stop being a problem" so thanks for those comments in advance, but actual tips or recommendations to my new DM would be appreciated.
Hi!

First, I'd argue that someone that goes into self-reflection from his own initiative cannot be a problem player. Although power gaming can be a problem. Those are different things : acting like =/= being. :)
With that out of the windows...

1. Singular aspect making your character outshine others: well, it's probably that you "optimize in spite of yourself" XD. If that really becomes a problem, find a role-play way to hold yourself. This cause can come from yourself only, be discussed from the DM or a surprise from him (I mean, discuss it with him obviously, but choose which of you should decide on the cause), be a random event or the result of a quest etc...
For example, if you have AC 20 because you are in heavy armor and shield, you could become afflicted with a disease that prevents you to use a shield, or you may live a situation in which wielding a shield actually was so handicapping that you made a resolve to never make such a mistake again (like you had to climb something high quickly to escape with your life, obviously harder with one hand only).
If you were particularly good at weapon attacks, like a GWM handler, you could restrain yourself to a particular kind of targets, or inflict yourself a fun condition as a houserule after chaining 10 attacks etc... Or even lose an arm in a heroic act, condemning you to be stuck with one-handed for a while (or whole life depending on how technological/magical your setting is).
If you tend to be an extremely smart Druid who right-guesses the really useful spells to prepare for a day, you may restrain yourself by deciding your character despises his human form (Moon Druid), or choose more "just help others to shine" spells on purpose (like Heat Metal, Web, Plant Growth) or if the problem is rather for your DM (you trivialize fight) use spells that are more "high risk to fail / high benefit" like a Hold Person on a caster, or Constitution targeting spells...
OR, just force yourself to "underoptimize" at creation time: this should help you end with "normal" characters.

2. If you like playing several characters so much, but your DM thinks difficult to find a good way to bring several of your current characters in the current campaign and have them interacting at the same time (or nearly), you could propose to him, instead, to keep only one of your current characters BUT incarnate some of his NPC (and possibly help him design them -NOT mechanically, because of your natural tendency- but roleplaywise): I think that could actually be the best option: you could alleviate a bit of his weight, while getting a chance to swap roles regularly (and possibly get some roles that are close to the ones you like to roleplay). Of course this requires heavy mental gymnastic and the ability to "close off" the things you know "as NPC" when you are actually playing as a PC, but from what I read I think you are totally up for this. :)

Keep us posted about how it goes... Have fun!

[Pelle]

For powergaming, maybe try to focus less on combat, and more on other aspects of the game. Creative problem solving, politics, social interaction, mysteries, etc. Basically, if player skill is given more weight than character skill, I think powergaming becomes less an issue.


As for wanting so change characters, you could evaluate the format/structure of the campaigns you are running/playing in. If you are playing a game with a big story arc and a party that travels around, LotR-style, changing characters becomes a headache.
If you however have a campaign based in one location, with short missions that are wrapped up each session, it's much easier to swap characters in and out. You could for example have a megadungeon close to a village, which the characters go back to every night for rest. If every character also have their own downtime projects (that don't need micro managing), you have an excuse for only bringing one of them each session.

[FabulousFizban]

If you really feel you are a munchkin, play an awakened animal without class levels - like a dog or a horse, anything CR1 or lower. Be the Disney sidekick!

suggestion? Play an Imp

[jojo]

...I am the oldest player in my group and taught many of my group D&D in the first place. We've been playing for 5 years together and I've been the DM for most that time with breaks taken to let others give it a try for a few one shots... Most of the group are still at "make my character for me" level despite loving the game. My most serious Players are starting to really come into their own but only know their class skills and spells and rarely they take a peek at a few feats....

...I do enjoy power gaming... I'll spend a week or two in intense study and digging up other books and reading forums, I want my time spent to be reflected when we play so I can't just pick bad stats and a mundane class...

...I can't pin down one character I really enjoy...

Any self help books I can read? Just kidding, but in all seriousness any tips? I'm expecting quite a few people to say something like "just stop being a problem" so thanks for those comments in advance, but actual tips or recommendations to my new DM would be appreciated.

All Emphasis above, is my own.

Hello everyone, my name is A Masterwork Bastard Sword and I think I might be a Katana...

This is a joke thread right?:confused:

In 20 years of playing this and numerous other RPGs on both sides of the table I've never observed this "make my character for me" stage of which you speak. However I accept that within this fantastical world we inhabit such a stage, like the Mexican Staring Frog of Southern Sri Lanka, must naturally exist somewhere. If it lasts for longer than five years however, as with newborns and breast-feeding, something has certainly gone wrong somewhere.

Most of the emphasis I've introduced above is meant to call attention to things that suggest to that this "make my character stage" you refer to probably results from you being somewhat more than merely "assertive" with your fellow players.

If you want serious advice however I'd read through and in situations where the things I have bolded above come up do the opposite of what You Think you would normally think is acceptable in such situations.

[HunterOfJello]

Various thoughts:

1. Assist the other players by printing out their resources and information for them. Make it as easy as possible for them to look up information and to notice information on their character sheets as possible.

Examples of this include http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1180 for spells and just writing down good summaries for feats and class features on the character sheets or a separate page.


2. I think whether a person is a "problem player" or not is more likely to depend on whether other people at the table are having fun or not. If there is a problem, then I suggest asking the DM (while alone) about it, maybe asking some other players while alone about it, and asking the group about it. If there are specific problems, then those can likely be solved.

3. I don't know too much about 4e, but 3.5 defiinitely required a degree of basic optimization to even have a functional character. The current 5e seems to be the opposite where most classes are already OP in their own sort of way right out of the box. This means that if you try to optimize above and beyond that, then you are likely to get too far ahead of the pack. I would keep that in mind when building characters in 5e

4. There are lots of different ways in which a player can relate to characters, adventures, and the game overall. I'd try finding new ways to relate to the entire game itself and experiment a little to see what happens.

[Mara]

Welcome to 5e, where basic addition let's you destroy the game balance!

This isn't your fault, 5e is just easy.

Things to do in 5e to prevent utter stomping.
1. Play a moon druid. It feels like the DM is hurting you even if he is doing nothing!

2. Learn to self throttle. The game is easy. Pretend to struggle but ramp up as needed.

3. Play a Vhuman Champion fighter with great weapon master. Your AC will be 18-19 and GWM has an often ignored clause that crits trigger the bonus action attack. People will think you are playing the unoptimized character and when the going gets tough, you shove the target down and unleash your -5/+10 with advantage.

4. Play a sword and board paladin with no feats. By virtue of existing, you are OP and the only optimal things you did was pick this class and have decent Cha and Str.

[Throne12]

I've had to take some self evaluation and I think I'm a power gamer and potentially a problem player. So here goes:

Hello everyone, my name is Drache64 and I'm a problem player...

I am the oldest player in my group and taught many of my group D&D in the first place. We've been playing for 5 years together and I've been the DM for most that time with breaks taken to let others give it a try for a few one shots. I love mechanics and character building, in my free time I just tweak build after build. Most of the group are still at "make my character for me" level despite loving the game. My most serious Players are starting to really come into their own but only know their class skills and spells and rarely they take a peek at a few feats.

My problems are two-fold, my builds usually outshine all the others even when I try to build a character focused on fun (lizardfolk barbarian druid, Pacifist cleric of Pelor, human tempest cleric) to this group having at AC of 20 alone is enough to imbalance me compared to the others. I'm not 100% altruistic, I do enjoy power gaming, I'll spend a week or two in intense study and digging up other books and reading forums, I want my time spent to be reflected when we play so I can't just pick bad stats and a mundane class. Playing a half orc wizard just isn't for me and if I tried I'd spend two weeks stacking it to work, it's my curse. This is also not my first group, I used to play with another group for years before we parted ways, just due to life, and we all had level 17-20 characters, so things that amaze and impress my current group at level 1-5 aren't as flashy to me. The highest level we've run is at level 7.

My other problem is that after being a DM for years and now being a player, I have split personality character creation ADD. I can't pin down one character I really enjoy. I like them all and when I play a paladin I miss my druid, when I play my druid I miss my monk, etc. It's not just the class skills, it's the acting and the personality. I love getting into character as a barbarian one week and then a devout cleric the next. This wasn't a problem when we ran one shots every week, but now my group is turned onto critical role and wants to pick characters and keep them for a few years.

Any self help books I can read? Just kidding, but in all seriousness any tips? I'm expecting quite a few people to say something like "just stop being a problem" so thanks for those comments in advance, but actual tips or recommendations to my new DM would be appreciated.

I feel your pain my DM runs the campaign books when they come out. In every campaign I have had about 2 or 3 characters. I don't switch them out they just end up dying. I didn't realized this untell Recently. But when I start getting bored with a character but I got Inspired by something cool that I read or saw. So I get a idea for a new character. I start getting more Reckless in game to get that. That was fun moment and 8 out of 10 times I end up dying. So I just move on. I have become so good and quick at making a character that when we get new player (we play with a open table at a comic shop) that I'm incharged with helping them create a character.