Can you Twin Dragon's Breath?

[BobZan]

Let's say you have a familiar or tiny servants, the spell Dragon's Breath and the ability to use Twinned Spell Metamagic. Is it possible?

It has a range of touch and targets one willing creature.

Dragon's Breath
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2nd-level transmutation

Casting Time: 1 bonus action

Range: Touch

Components: V, S, M (a hot pepper)

Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You touch one willing creature and imbue it with the power to spew magical energy from it's mouth, provided it has one. Choose acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. Until the spell ends, the creature can use an action to exhale energy of the chosen type in a 15 foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 damage of the chosen type on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 2nd.

Twinned Spell

When you Cast a Spell that Targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).

To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray aren’t eligible, but Ray of Frost is.

[Lord8Ball]

You're targeting a single creature. Its range is touch, not self; therefore, if someone is within touch range and you twin it the spell would work on both targets.

[Aett_Thorn]

Common sense: Yes, you can twin it.

Probable RAI from JC: Since the effect is an AoE, you can't.


I would allow it.

[Asmotherion]

Let's say you have a familiar or tiny servants, the spell Dragon's Breath and the ability to use Twinned Spell Metamagic. Is it possible?

It has a range of touch and targets one willing creature.

Dragon's Breath
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COMMENTS (3)

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2nd-level transmutation

Casting Time: 1 bonus action

Range: Touch

Components: V, S, M (a hot pepper)

Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You touch one willing creature and imbue it with the power to spew magical energy from it's mouth, provided it has one. Choose acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. Until the spell ends, the creature can use an action to exhale energy of the chosen type in a 15 foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw, taking 3d6 damage of the chosen type on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 2nd.

Twinned Spell

When you Cast a Spell that Targets only one creature and doesn’t have a range of self, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 sorcery point if the spell is a cantrip).

To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level. For example, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray aren’t eligible, but Ray of Frost is.


Yes it can be twined... As a familiar can delivier touch spells for you it could also deliver it on itself (or an other target of your choice), wile you do so on yourself.

That said, questions like that usually go into the "Simple RAW 3" Thread. Also, welcome to the forum I guess? :)

[Provo]

RAW, yes absolutely. RAI, I think it is fine. It is a single target buff, not an attack. Haste indirectly affects multiple targets as well by granting lots of extra attacks, but nobody is going to argue that Haste can't be twinned.

Be careful though. A lot of DMs are content to ignore your familiar in battle. If it starts doing actual damage (especially AOE damage) that will quickly change.

[Lord8Ball]

You could always carry a metal box with a hole the size a rat could fit through. It peaks its head out and breath weapon and then retreats into the box for full cover. What is even better about this strat is that if the familiar is compromised you can put in in another dimension and summon it next round hopefully with the spell still in effect.

[BobZan]

Common sense: Yes, you can twin it.

Probable RAI from JC: Since the effect is an AoE, you can't.


I would allow it.

That was my concern, RAW vs RAI. There's nothing about it.


Yes it can be twined... As a familiar can delivier touch spells for you it could also deliver it on itself (or an other target of your choice), wile you do so on yourself.

That said, questions like that usually go into the "Simple RAW 3" Thread. Also, welcome to the forum I guess? :)

Thanks! Yes, I'm new to the forum :)

[BobZan]

RAW, yes absolutely. RAI, I think it is fine. It is a single target buff, not an attack. Haste indirectly affects multiple targets as well by granting lots of extra attacks, but nobody is going to argue that Haste can't be twinned.

Be careful though. A lot of DMs are content to ignore your familiar in battle. If it starts doing actual damage (especially AOE damage) that will quickly change.
That would be a nice challenge.

What about Inspiring Leader, would it work on a familiar?


You could always carry a metal box with a hole the size a rat could fit through. It peaks its head out and breath weapon and then retreats into the box for full cover. What is even better about this strat is that if the familiar is compromised you can put in in another dimension and summon it next round hopefully with the spell still in effect.

That would piss off a lot of DMs!

[Tanarii]

What about Inspiring Leader, would it work on a familiar?
As long as it's a friendly creature within 30ft of you that can see you, hear you, and understand you.

The last bit is the crux. Most familiars only "understand" their master, either because it's a command and must be obeyed, or because of the telepathic link (within 100 ft).

[BobZan]

Yes, me as the caster and using the feat. The last part, indeed.

I think that it already understand a lot of things, I would rule in favor.

[TheDoctorIsMyDM]

RAW, yes absolutely. RAI, I think it is fine. It is a single target buff, not an attack. Haste indirectly affects multiple targets as well by granting lots of extra attacks, but nobody is going to argue that Haste can't be twinned.

Be careful though. A lot of DMs are content to ignore your familiar in battle. If it starts doing actual damage (especially AOE damage) that will quickly change.

Fyi, the find familiar spell explicitly says that the familiar cannot attack. It gets confusing because it can take actions (like pulling a lever to drop an anvil on an enemy) but it cannot make an attack. Some DM's might allow it since it is using an "action" not an attack, but it would definitely be bent. Of course a Pact of the Chain Familiar gets to ignore that limitation.

There has been a tweet from the devs about not being allowed to use twinned spell on Dragon's Breath, specifically. a lot of people don't like it, because RAW it should work. In the end it wasn't the intent, and I think at low levels the combo is broken (6d6 per round aoe, at level 3!?).

[Aett_Thorn]

Fyi, the find familiar spell explicitly says that the familiar cannot attack. It gets confusing because it can take actions (like pulling a lever to drop an anvil on an enemy) but it cannot make an attack. Some DM's might allow it since it is using an "action" not an attack, but it would definitely be bent. Of course a Pact of the Chain Familiar gets to ignore that limitation.

There has been a tweet from the devs about not being allowed to use twinned spell on Dragon's Breath, specifically. a lot of people don't like it, because RAW it should work. In the end it wasn't the intent, and I think at low levels the combo is broken (6d6 per round aoe, at level 3!?).

Thread necro, ahoy! Question was asked almost exactly a year ago. So happy anniversary, thread!

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please don't revive old threads.