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Phryll
2017-12-14, 08:30 PM
Hello Everyone! This is my first time posting on the forum! I've always enjoyed the Champion Archetype, but having read several posts on reddit and giantitp about the math behind the Champion, I wanted to try my hand at tweaking it a little bit to see if I could change it up slightly. Here is what I've come up with:

# Champion, Minor Variant
The archetypal Champion focuses on the development of raw physical power honed to paragon perfection. Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical supremacy to deal execute foes.

### Improved Critical
Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

At the 10th level, your weapon attacks also score a critical hit on a roll of 18.

At the 15th level, your weapon attacks also score a critical hit on a roll of 17.

### Remarkable Athlete
Starting at 7th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make. This bonus also applies to skills you already have proficiency in.

In addition, when you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Strength modifier.

### Savage Mastery
At 10th level, you can choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature.

In addition, you can roll one additional 1d8 damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a weapon attack. The damage is the of the same type dealt by the original attack.

At 14th level, the additional dice roll turns into a 1d10. At 18th level, it turns into a 1d12.

### Survivor
At 15th level, you attain the pinnacle of resilience in battle. At the start of each of your turns, you regain hitpoints equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier if you have no more than half of your hit points left.

You don’t gain this benefit if you have 0 hit points.

### Critical Surge
At 18th level, if you take the attack action using your action surge, the first hit you score against a creature is a critical hit.


I'm planning on using this in my own campaign soon, so I wanted to get some advice on the balance of this class, and whether or not it's become too strong? I'm particularly worried about the 18th level feature, and I tried to keep things simple, so as to make it remain in line with the original intent of the Champion.

Any and all feedback is welcome. Thank you!

Talamare
2017-12-14, 08:39 PM
Who said Champion is weak?

Mathematically they are basically perfectly balanced...

They are just insanely boring to play.

Phryll
2017-12-14, 08:47 PM
Who said Champion is weak?

Apologies, I didn't mean to say they were weak. I'm simply creating an alternative take on it, that my players wanted to try out. I wanted some advice on it's balance before I gave them the go-ahead, as I didn't want to accidentally allow anything too strong.

Easy_Lee
2017-12-14, 08:54 PM
The strength of the champion as written depends upon the number of encounters per short rest. Realistically, you need a long day and a lot of encounters for a champion to pull ahead of an optimized battle master. That said, a half orc champion 5 / barbarian 2 with GWM is more than good enough for any table.

I'd be careful with Champion buffs. It's not that far behind as is in a typical campaign, and that relies on the BM to be optimized.

We won't speak of eldritch knights or purple dragon knights, because they're different things. The Xanathar's subclasses still need more time for people to figure them out.

Phryll
2017-12-14, 09:11 PM
The strength of the champion as written depends upon the number of encounters per short rest. Realistically, you need a long day and a lot of encounters for a champion to pull ahead of an optimized battle master. That said, a half orc champion 5 / barbarian 2 with GWM is more than good enough for any table.

I'd be careful with Champion buffs. It's not that far behind as is in a typical campaign, and that relies on the BM to be optimized.

We won't speak of eldritch knights or purple dragon knights, because they're different things. The Xanathar's subclasses still need more time for people to figure them out.

Hi there! I've read your BM guide, it was amazing! Anyway, thank you for the advice, it's really helpful to get another person's point of view on this. If the consensus is that it's too strong, I'm probably just going to scrap the idea, as I definitely don't want to allow anything too strong for my campaign.

Once again, thanks!

Talamare
2017-12-15, 01:24 AM
The main thing they need is something has the potential for a ton of excitement, but mathematically only provides a very small damage boost.

Lv7
When you roll the maximum value of a damage dice, you may roll an additional dice of the same size. Additional dice rolled this way do not activate this.


Mathematically... This isn't very significant. Yet it fits really well with the Crit based theme of the Champion, and it can be insanely entertaining.