The argument for the Warlock Hexblade Archer

[jaappleton]

"But John, why a Warlock Archer? They get Eldritch Blast, one of the best damage cantrips in the game!"
Right you are. EB is pretty darn spectacular. Know what you can't do with EB? Sharpshooter. Crossbow Expert. Eldritch Smite.

Sure, those things require some decent Invocation and Feat investment. That's very true.

But Warlock Archer is also one of the best ways to be a full caster and do good weapon damage.

Here's what I've got:

Warlock Hexblade
Hex Warrior means you only need Charisma and Con. You can set your Dex at 14 forever, since you'll be in Medium Armor. Aside from that, Charisma and Con are all you need. Since you get Medium Armor at lv1, it's also possibly to spend a Feat to gain proficiency in Heavy Armor if you want to go that route. Considering you'll be an archer, you could argue 16 Con for your whole career is just fine and dandy.

Darkness + Devils Sight means you'll reliably have Advantage
Thirsting Blade for two attacks
Three via bonus action if you take Crossbow Expert
DOUBLE Charisma modifier in damage when you take Thirsting Blade

Now, the downside is that most of the Hexblade bonus spells are Smite spells, making them... useless to you. But who cares? Most of those suck anyway.

VHuman for the bonus feat, likely Crossbow Expert for the bonus attack, since the lack of Darkvision is compensated for via Devil's Sight.

If you want a 'short rest' based Magic wielding Archer, you could do a lot worse. Their vanilla spell list got quite a boost with XGtE, especially with Thunder Step, so you have an escape button if you're ever swarmed.
(No, I haven't been playing a Demon Hunter in Diablo 3, you have!)

[LeonBH]

Sounds like a fun build. Go for it.


especially with Thunder Step, so you have an escape button if you're ever swarmed.

Misty Step is honestly better, in my opinion. It's a bonus action, doesn't require line of sight, and does the job of escaping just as well. Also, it doesn't fire off a loud boom of thunder that can be heard up to 300ft away.

[jaappleton]

Sounds like a fun build. Go for it.



Misty Step is honestly better, in my opinion. It's a bonus action, doesn't require line of sight, and does the job of escaping just as well. Also, it doesn't fire off a loud boom of thunder that can be heard up to 300ft away.

Misty Step is infinitely superior for scouting and mobility. Thunder Step is good for when enemies get the drop on you, allowing you to take yourself and an ally out of harms way while doing damage. They both have their place.

[Vulryn]

Pretty nice idea, thinking about something like this myself. Would you multiclass or go pure warlock ? (Like paladin for double the smite)

[jaappleton]

Pretty nice idea, thinking about something like this myself. Would you multiclass or go pure warlock ? (Like paladin for double the smite)

Eldritch Smite only lets you Smite with Warlock slots, so I don't see the merits of MCing Paladin as much as other people. There's certainly some appeal in MCing into Devotion Paladin for the Channel Divinity of +Cha to attack rolls, when coupled with the Sharpshooter aspect, and you'd get access to Bless and Divine Favor, two fairly solid spells on this concept (You get those with any Pally, actually). I certainly see the merits of MCing into Rogue, but whenever I play a caster of any kind, I'm very leery about slowing spell progression, but the benefits of nabbing Rogue 2 are pretty obvious; Expertise and Cunning Action are pretty darn good. Really depends on how you'd want to play.

For myself, personally, if I MCed, I'd go Fighter 1 for Archery Style. That's really it. For my taste, my characters go either Short Rest or Long Rest focused. Mixing the two, like Warlock / Paladin, just seems really weird to me. I know it works, but I just prefer not to do it.

If you have a Cleric or Paladin in your party that pretty much always has Bless going, I think that weighs into going pure Warlock or MCing. Accuracy is so important if you utilize Sharpshooter, so getting Archery Style or using Darkness / Devil's Sight is key. Darkness is Concentration, so depending on your party makeup, you could hinder your allies chances of hitting. So in many scenarios, Bless might be preferable over Darkness. There's tons of ways to get Advantage, though, if you go the Sharpshooter route.

Then again, if you forgo Sharpshooter altogether, which some builds might do, you're still doing three shots with a bonus +Cha Mod added on to each attack at lv12. Using a Hand Crossbow +2, that's 1d6+12*3 if you have 20 Charisma.

[Degwerks]

I've been thinking about a similar hex-archer type myself. However every time I think about it, I keep getting multi classing wrapped up in the build.

Like EK Fighter 8 Hexblade 5 AT Rogue 7. I'd eldritch blast and then do a bonus action bow attack with 4d8 eldritch smite plus 4d6 sneak attack. Sharpshooter added in as well. Staying in ranged mode only and using Absorb Elements or Uncanny Dodge and Evasion when needed. Up to 5 attacks per round at tier 4 would be great to have Hex running. Extra spell slots to play with.

Take rogue out and replace it with Whisper Bard and you can get 5th level slots. Bardic inspiration for the psychic blades ability to give you 3d6 damage on the bow attack. Improved Invisibility too.

However 17 hexblade and 3 of anything else is awesome as well.

[Mjolnirbear]

To the best of my knowledge, CBX bonus attack only works with hand crossbows, something improved pact weapon doesn't give.

At least I think so? I'm afb atm

[jaappleton]

To the best of my knowledge, CBX bonus attack only works with hand crossbows, something improved pact weapon doesn't give.

At least I think so? I'm afb atm

Hex Warrior gives you full Martial Weapon proficiency, and if you go Blade Pact, it overrides the 'melee only' aspect of Blade Pact.

[Caelic]

Hex Warrior gives you full Martial Weapon proficiency, and if you go Blade Pact, it overrides the 'melee only' aspect of Blade Pact.


...but in order to use Thirsting Blade, you need to be using your pact weapon--and I think Mjolnirbear is right, hand crossbow isn't one of the options offered by IPW.

[jaappleton]

...but in order to use Thirsting Blade, you need to be using your pact weapon--and I think Mjolnirbear is right, hand crossbow isn't one of the options offered by IPW.

You're right.

But IPW isn't required at all for the build to function.

Hex Warrior gives Martial Proficiency and allows you to override vanilla POTB's ability requiring it to be a melee weapon. Therefore... Hand Crossbow.

IPW would be required for any Non-Hexblade Patron to utilize any form of Archery, however.

[Mjolnirbear]

You're right.

But IPW isn't required at all for the build to function.

Hex Warrior gives Martial Proficiency and allows you to override vanilla POTB's ability requiring it to be a melee weapon. Therefore... Hand Crossbow.

IPW would be required for any Non-Hexblade Patron to utilize any form of Archery, however.

Crap. I'm not home this weekend. I really wish I could just scan my copy of Xanathars.

But I'm like 99% certain that while you're correct that Hex Warrior gives martial weapon proficiency, the bond that allows you to use Charisma is for melee one-handed weapons only. You can use Charisma with any pact weapon, but nothing allows you to have your pact weapon be a hand crossbow.

So yes you can use the feat, and you can use a hand crossbow, but it can neither be your pact weapon nor you hex bonded weapon, so you need to stack up on dex to use it.

Edit:
Hex warrior: hand crossbow yes, longsword yes, bow yes, glaive yes.

Hex warrior bond: hand crossbow no, longsword yes, bow no, glaive no.

Hex warrior bond with blade pact: hand crossbow no, longsword yes, bow no, glaive yes

Hex warrior bond with blade pact and IPW: handcrossbow no, longsword yes, bow yes, glaive yes.

[jaappleton]

Crap. I'm not home this weekend. I really wish I could just scan my copy of Xanathars.

But I'm like 99% certain that while you're correct that Hex Warrior gives martial weapon proficiency, the bond that allows you to use Charisma is for melee one-handed weapons only. You can use Charisma with any pact weapon, but nothing allows you to have your pact weapon be a hand crossbow.

So yes you can use the feat, and you can use a hand crossbow, but it can neither be your pact weapon nor you hex bonded weapon, so you need to stack up on dex to use it.

Word for word, my friend:

At 1st level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle. You gain proficiency with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type.

Hand Crossbow has the Ammunition, Light, and Loading properties. Not two handed.

EDIT: Additionally, you've always been able to make any ranged magical weapon into your Pact Weapon if you bond with it. JC's confirmed that.

[Mjolnirbear]

I stand corrected. You are therefore using your pact weapon and your hex warrior bond on two separate weapons?

Thank you for typing out the text. I really was 99% certain the word melee was in there.

[Mortis_Elrod]

...but in order to use Thirsting Blade, you need to be using your pact weapon--and I think Mjolnirbear is right, hand crossbow isn't one of the options offered by IPW.

Doesn't matter because hex warrior allows hand crossbow. So you could have a handcrossbow ready as back up. You can't make a pact hand crossbow though unless its a magic weapon (so use magic weapon then perform a the pact blade ritual, done deal).

I've been preaching Hexbow for a while now and its even better thanks to a better improved pact weapon.


One of the best things about the Hexbow is that you are just as effective in melee with 0 investment. Just use an action to transform your bow into a your favorite melee weapon ( i like war picks because they are the closest to a scythe). There's also the fact that you can Ranged Smite, which bar the few smite spells that work with it, nobody else can do not to mention the no save prone effect.

On another note as mentioned in another thread, Shadow of Moil is better than darkness, and saves you an invocation slot (though if you have no darkvision you still want devil's sight).

[jaappleton]

I stand corrected. You are therefore using your pact weapon and your hex warrior bond on two separate weapons?

Thank you for typing out the text. I really was 99% certain the word melee was in there.

Not gonna lie, I re-read Hex Warrior about 6 times before making this topic to make sure this would work :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

Doesn't matter because hex warrior allows hand crossbow. So you could have a handcrossbow ready as back up. You can't make a pact hand crossbow though unless its a magic weapon (so use magic weapon then perform a the pact blade ritual, done deal).

I've been preaching Hexbow for a while now and its even better thanks to a better improved pact weapon.


One of the best things about the Hexbow is that you are just as effective in melee with 0 investment. Just use an action to transform your bow into a your favorite melee weapon ( i like war picks because they are the closest to a scythe). There's also the fact that you can Ranged Smite, which bar the few smite spells that work with it, nobody else can do not to mention the no save prone effect.

On another note as mentioned in another thread, Shadow of Moil is better than darkness, and saves you an invocation slot (though if you have no darkvision you still want devil's sight).

I know! Your love of Warlock Archers played heavily into me considering this build. I'm curious to see any builds you have, as you championed this concept quite a bit during the days when the Moonbow invocation was a thing in UA.

[Legimus]

I loved the Moonbow invocation when it came out, and I've been looking to make a bow-wielding Hexblade since Xanathar's came out. So thanks for this.

I think there's just one problem with the hand crossbows. You can make one of them into your pact weapon and apply Hex Warrior to it, but not both. Hex Warrior applies to only one weapon at a time, and you can only have one pact weapon. So presumably your offhand crossbow will use DEX, not CHA, and it won't get the benefit from Lifedrinker either.

Now Hex Warrior has the line "If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon's type." The way I've been reading this is solely to mean that taking Pact of the Blade gets you around the rule against two-handed weapons. However, there's a way to read it to mean that Hex Warrior gets applied to your pact weapon and one other weapon of your choice, in which case you could use CHA for both hand crossbows. The way I've seen people writing about Hexblade over the past month, I've been under the impression that Pact of the Blade was not intended as an avenue for dual wielding. But I'm happy to be proven wrong on this.

Regardless of which reading is correct, though, Lifedrinker will only apply to the pact weapon, so you'll only get double CHA to one of your crossbows.

[Mikal]

Like jaappleton said while you can't create a hand crossbow pact weapon you CAN bond to a magic hand crossbow, giving you thirsting blade access, and regular damage on the other.

And jaappleton while you might not want to MC I'd recommend 4 levels of fighter and going battlemaster so you can have some bonuses to attacks and damage with the maneuvers that can refresh on the same short rest as your warlock stuff.

4 so you can get an additional feat/asi

[Tikkun]

Crossbow Expert gives a bonus attack if you attack with a one handed weapon. My understanding is that it does not apply to dual wielding hand crossbows. It is commonly used either with a melee weapon or just by using one hand crossbow itself. If you had 2 attacks and made them both with a hand crossbow you would in essence attack 4 times for your 1d6 weapon.

This feat is commonly used in conjunction with Sharpshooter to leverage the -5/+10 to increase weapon damage. In addition, you want to be at range, to avoid having your concentration broken and losing your Darkness entirely. Remember a melee is at disadvantage but 2 good rolls may snap your concentration.

This is why the Fighter class is usually ( the new Ranger sub-classes alter this a bit ) the go to for Archer type builds. Archery Fighting style ( +2 to attack) helps negate part of the problem. Add in Second Wind, Action Surge and 3 ASI's by level 8. Finally toss in Battlemaster and its maneuvers and superiority dice (5d8 by level 7) and you can see that it functions without limited spell slots and the need to cast spells. If you bother going to level 11 you have just gotten 6 attacks--and your superiority dice go to 5d10 at level 10. It will use DEX rather than CHA but have the same armour capabilities. It will be a little MAD if you want to cast spells, but, casting a spell means you lose 2 attacks. It would not have the versatility and SADness of a Hexblade at level 11, but will probably do more damage

[Sigreid]

You don't have to have 2 hand crossbows to get the bonus action attack.

[Dudewithknives]

Playing a hexblade pact of the blade archer currently at level 7. Works great.

I went with a longbow though instead of hand crossbow. Mainly because I like the longer range, also I happened to find a set of bracers of archery.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I know! Your love of Warlock Archers played heavily into me considering this build. I'm curious to see any builds you have, as you championed this concept quite a bit during the days when the Moonbow invocation was a thing in UA.

So for builds at the time i loved using arcane archer and its still usable here.

For 3 levels of fighter you aren't dropping much and gaining a lot.

Action surge, Fighting style, Heavy armor and Con proficiency if you start fighter. Sadly Xans nerfed it a little so you wont get the always on +1 magic arrows but +2d6 on any attack plus another effect is pretty good. Alot of the Arcane shots don't need high int investment either. If we are talking pure AL legal material here, Half elf, Drow, Tiefling, and vHuman are all good unless you want to be small (halfling). Non AL will be able to grab Yuan-ti and Tabaxi (catperson is my choice)



Right now my go to build depends on starting level.

1st level start: Hexblade
2nd level start: fighter 1/ Hexblade 1 archery style. start fighter
3rd level start: Hexblade 3. Blade pact. Grab Improved pact weapon, grasp of hadar or devil sight or lance of lethargy. Devil-sight if you don't have darkvision or you like darkness combo alot. I personally don't but at this level you can do it since you don't have eldritch smite yet. I like grasp and lance as a 'death grip' to make sure nobody escapes.

5th level start: Hexblade 5. Improved pact weapon, eldritch smite, and you can switch any invo you had before to get thirsting blade. Congrats you have your bread and butter build. After this you can multi if you think you wont get to 12 fast enough before campaign end or if you think you will go to level 15.




A full 20 level build: Arcane Archer 8/Hexblade 12.
You could argue 14th level warlock is really good and you'd be right but i think 8 levels of fighter gives ALOT.

Extra attack is always better than Thirsting blade since you can extra attack with a shadowblade and twf with your pact weapon (if you need to melee anyway). This also saves an invocation.

7th level arcane archer gives you Curving Shot which is great (magic arrow is meh but needs to be there per curving shots wording.)

You also get 1 more arcane option to add to your versatility and better HD. (also druidcraft or prestidigitation).

At lastly 1 more ASI than you would normally get.

[PeteNutButter]

I'd definitely go with fighter at first level just for the FS and con save proficiency. It's a fun build, but as has been said you'd need a magic hand crossbow to make it your pact weapon. If you don't get one by level 5(or 6 if MC) you'll be either missing out on thirsting blade or missing out on the feat, and switching to a longbow.