Prayer Points!

[Twizzly513]

Hello all.

I've been working on creating a new campaign setting, and I'm going to have gods and religion play a much larger (cultural, not plot) role. One of the ways I'd like to encourage thinking of the gods is through a system I'll call Prayer Points. They will be rewarded in a similar fashion to another thing I have, called sap points.

SAP stands for Special Action Points, although soon I realized there was an extra "P." The name has stuck for a little over a year now, though, so I suppose it's not changing. Sap points are rewarded solely for good roleplaying, and can be spent for a number of favorable effects in and out of game. One of the main things they can do is allow for a player to do something that makes sense, but is not covered by the rules, or that bends the rules but is reasonably plausible. For instance, one could spend a sap point to attempt to cut off a beholder's eye stalk. I once let the party's evocation wizard spend two sap points so that he could Overchannel Disintegrate, one for Overchanneling a level higher than normal, one for Overchanneling a transmutation spell. They are represented by small green glass circles that are often used in glass vases as additional decorative value. I'm curious of others' thoughts on this system, but mainly I'm here for the Prayer Points.

Prayer points are represented by medium-sized brown glass circles. If you did not read the discourse, these will be rewarded for good roleplaying. There is a document here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DeUA1F9FWCiTuv1vIr8aSSOisKv906FCF-hLPU9KLrE/edit?usp=sharing)that lists the different prayers. I attached the table of the gods of the pantheon, because each god/dess has a prayer or two. These are supposed to be powerful and to help the party out quite a bit for an encounter or so. I won't be giving them out often (I was thinking on average once every other session; these are going to be special and coveted). If anyone is interested in the other stuff for my pantheon for use or for tweaking, or if you think it might be helpful to answer my questions, the full document on my pantheon is here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FMPF5k4x_VNT0jxshxazT38Wt0AABulbTPqBoJyCpLE/edit?usp=sharing)along with details on how religion plays a role in life for people and a little more specifics on the gods/goddesses themselves.
What I specifically would like advice on is:
Do you think that giving these out every now and then is reasonable?
Do you think that this will help flesh out my setting at all?
Do you think that Vyarin's prayer is as good as the others?
Do you have any other suggestions for new prayers or edits for existing ones to make them come in line with the others?
Any other thoughts and advice are welcome as well, thank you!

[Hyde]

ATM Machine

[Potato_Priest]

ATM Machine

I’m sorry, but what message were you trying to communicate?

This looks alright. I’d be a bit concerned with the prayer that permanently reduces max HP, since many DMs have an attitude that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, and this prayer works fine when players use it but is not balanced for NPC use.

The control weather prayer does seem a bit weak, yes. Yes it’s casting a high level spell, but that high level spell is very mechanically weak for its cadre. This prayer also breaks the mold byproviding no apparent in-combat benefits, while all the others would have at least some application. To fix this part of the problem, I’d let the player move the weather conditions 3 times as an action when they start using the prayer.

Also, what role do outsiders have in your setting? Most of the prayer of the outsider effects are weaker than gods’ prayers in the respective areas, and there’s an element of random chance, making this prayer very unappealing. If outsiders are weaker and less predictable than gods in your setting this makes sense, but if they’re supposed to have ultimate cosmic power then the buffs should be stronger or last longer.

[Hyde]

I’m sorry, but what message were you trying to communicate?
SAP Points

[Anonymouswizard]

First, I don't like it on principle. It feels like it's meant to make deities take on a more plot central role.

To make religion more important, make religion more important. People in setting take religion seriously, the Prophet Azakas didn't die so you could go and risk your life exploring ruins! To that end I'd actually make the divine less direct and knowable (or seeable), and thus make the differences of theology more important in the setting. There's also a lot to be said for 'you were the divine help', that the gods helped by sending the PCs to deal with the situation. Remember, mysterious ways.

(Note that Dragon Age, where one religion is very important, has a character who was ostracized for believing their god hadn't abandoned them.)

EDIT: don't forget your Personal Identification Number number.

[lunaticfringe]

SAP Points

Special Action Points Points. Automated Teller Machine Machine.

[JackPhoenix]

I don't see anything about what prayer does what... only the initial table and then some fluff?

[Twizzly513]

this prayer works fine when players use it but is not balanced for NPC use.

The control weather prayer does seem a bit weak, yes. Yes it’s casting a high level spell, but that high level spell is very mechanically weak for its cadre. This prayer also breaks the mold byproviding no apparent in-combat benefits, while all the others would have at least some application. To fix this part of the problem, I’d let the player move the weather conditions 3 times as an action when they start using the prayer.

Also, what role do outsiders have in your setting? Most of the prayer of the outsider effects are weaker than gods’ prayers in the respective areas, and there’s an element of random chance, making this prayer very unappealing. If outsiders are weaker and less predictable than gods in your setting this makes sense, but if they’re supposed to have ultimate cosmic power then the buffs should be stronger or last longer.

The prayers are all intended solely for PC use, should have clarified.

I think that's a much better idea, thank you. I might add a separate prayer with more combat-centric effects, or add a few weaker ones to the current prayer.

The Outsider isn't meant to play a large role in the setting. It's supposed to feel weird and undesirable. The Outsider is essentially an elder god whose mind has shattered into many separate minds over time that are all trying to control the power, so action from him is unpredictable and odd, at best. I might buff them a bit, though, to represent the larger (albeit unpredictable) power.


*snip*

There are two different links, the second has fluff, the first has the prayers after the deity table.


First, I don't like it on principle. It feels like it's meant to make deities take on a more plot central role.


My idea was to make the gods less able to be communicated with, but I really liked the flavor idea of praying affecting the game in a mechanical way. The first thought was to make it so that if the PCs prayed to the goddess of travelers right before leaving, they'd be less likely to come upon random encounters, or if they prayed to the god of archery right before a crucial shot, I'd give them a behind-the-screen bonus, that kind of thing. I did, of course, notify them of this. They're mature and we all agreed not to game it. Toying with the idea a little more, I thought it might be interesting to have times when the gods shine through from their reclining positions in the heavens to change things just a bit, giving it a mythic fantasy feel for a bit. This was my idea of how to mechanically create this while I can control how often it happens, depending on how it turns out to work in gameplay.

Thank you all for the replies!

[Anonymouswizard]

My idea was to make the gods less able to be communicated with, but I really liked the flavor idea of praying affecting the game in a mechanical way. The first thought was to make it so that if the PCs prayed to the goddess of travelers right before leaving, they'd be less likely to come upon random encounters, or if they prayed to the god of archery right before a crucial shot, I'd give them a behind-the-screen bonus, that kind of thing. I did, of course, notify them of this. They're mature and we all agreed not to game it. Toying with the idea a little more, I thought it might be interesting to have times when the gods shine through from their reclining positions in the heavens to change things just a bit, giving it a mythic fantasy feel for a bit. This was my idea of how to mechanically create this while I can control how often it happens, depending on how it turns out to work in gameplay.

Thank you all for the replies!

Yeah, I tend to prefer a lower fantasy.

I actually kind of dislike the Cleric class. I'd honestly stick the healing spells on the Wizard list and the various buffs on the Bard list and cut clerics all together. Actual agents of the gods tends to make theological ambiguity harder, which is something I like in my settings (because it leads to, for example, schisms). Having a specific list of benefits you can have each god bring when the party is in need also rubs me the wrong way, it makes god feel more limited than I feel they should.

Anyway, I think 5e already has a great mechanic for representing divine favour, Inspiration (and by extension Advantage). But that's just me pondering about how I'd represent divine influence in a game.