Mystic immortal Oger Form giant club

[Drache64]

My immortal Mystic is only proficient with simple weapons, but if you kill something like an Oger with a great club (2d8 base) and take it's club, could you wield it without issue when in Oger form?

I assume there'd of course be issues outside the form, but this editions lack of weapon sizes kind of throws me off

[cZak]

Ogre form adds a 1d4 to your damage on attacks.
I believe this represents the increased size of your weapon; i.e. Enlarge person

I suppose you could tote the big club and utilize it in combat, but you'd lose the +1d4 to damage.
Not sure if that's the way it's supposed to work...

[Drache64]

I did some research before posting this, but it was fruitless. After more time and effort, it appears that large weapons can be ruled by the DM to be either unwieldy or impose disadvantage to creatures not the correct size.

As a Oger Form makes you large, you would be able to avoid any penalties.

RAW seem to point that large great club in the hand of a large Mystic in Oger form would deal 2d8+1d4+strength.

This seems like a great way for immortals to buff their base damage as the form is only 2PP for 1 minute (10 rounds).

[Ventruenox]

Your DM would have to rule how to classify the Great Club obtained from the Ogre. Is it the 2-Handed simple weapon from the PHB, or is it a different weapon?

If it is identical to the PHB weapon, then this is a case where specific rules would trump general. Ogre Form adds on 1d4 bludgeoning damage to the 1d8 weapon, making it 1d8 + 1d4 + STR + INT (with Potent Psionics at 8). The 2d8 damage from the MM statblock does not apply - that damage is based on the Ogre itself. The Mystic's Ogre Form does not Polymorph you into an actual Ogre, it just has a few similarities.

If the DM rules that the Ogre's Greatclub is a weapon different from the PHB, then it requires additional rulings. Is it a simple or martial weapon? Does it have the heavy property? Can it only be wielded by a character size L or greater?

The most common approach I've seen DMs take for something like this (or other claimed trophy weapons), is to rule that it is a special martial weapon. Size/race restrictions apply, and a proficiency with that weapon must be obtained. The Weapon Master feat could be utilized here. Investing a feat to be able to use a weapon for a minute while maintaining concentration will balance the extra 1d8 damage. From an optimizer's viewpoint, that cost of admission exceeds the value of using the weapon. Mystics do not get the extra attack that martial characters do.

[Drache64]

I feel like a DM could do that of course as they could say the club is a bunny rabbit, but RAW seems to say the size of the weapon dictates the weapon size.

"Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that
deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon
dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's
Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan.
For example, a Huge giant wielding an appropriately
sized greataxe deals 3d12 slashing damage (plus its
Strength bonus), instead of the normalldl2.
A creature has disadvantage on attack rolls with a
weapon that is sized for a larger attacker. You can rule
that a weapon sized for an attacker two or more sizes
larger is too big for the creature to use at all."

If my sub par English skills don't fail me, the sentence seems to be saying "Big Monsters Wield oversized weapons"... "Over sized weapons that do an extra die of damage..."

The RAW seems to focus on size of the weapon and imposing disadvantage on those who attempt to wield it.

[Easy_Lee]

This reminds me of the old blade pact warlock arguments. A blade pact warlock can gain proficiency with any weapon he makes a pact with. Technically, that means you can make a pact with any weapon, even if it's not intended for you, and swing it normally.

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to actually do that. I don't think this situation is any different. Most DMs probably won't let you use weapons that weren't truly intended for players.

[GlenSmash!]

If I allowed Mystics, I might allow this.

But I don't so...

[Drache64]

This reminds me of the old blade pact warlock arguments. A blade pact warlock can gain proficiency with any weapon he makes a pact with. Technically, that means you can make a pact with any weapon, even if it's not intended for you, and swing it normally.

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to actually do that. I don't think this situation is any different. Most DMs probably won't let you use weapons that weren't truly intended for players.

When I DM I consider what the player is paying for the ability to do such a thing. The weapon would use a large amount of his weight limit and be unwieldy for 90% of the time and he has to use power points to amp his form to pull off this little trick.

Sounds reasonable trade off for me.

[Drache64]

Not to mention the case of "never" vs "when". At level 1? No. At level 7-10? Probably
At level 17... Knock yourself out.