Sorcerer/Hexblade or pure Sorcerer?

[Dr. Cliché]

My friends are doing a one-off session, where each of us will use Lv20 characters and battle it out.

My question is, do you think I'd be better off using a Sorcerer 18/Hexblade 2 or just a lv20 sorcerer?

A pure sorcerer would have 2 exra sorcery points and an extra lv6 and lv 7 spell. A Hexblade would have armour, the curse, some melee ability, access to a great cantrip and 2 Invocations.

(I don't want to use more than 2 levels of Hexblade, as I don't want to lose out on Unearthly Recovery)

If it matters, the sorcerer will be a Favoured Soul (and both that and the Hexblade are from XGtE).

Any thoughts?

[BobZan]

Always CoffeeLock them all. Get the Hexblade dip.

[Dr. Cliché]

Always CoffeeLock them all. Get the Hexblade dip.

CoffeeLock?

[BobZan]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542964-Can-someone-please-explain-the-%91coffeelock%92-to-me&highlight=coffee+lock

[borg286]

Quicken X + Eldritch blast is one of the most effecient ways to spend sorcery points.

[Citan]

My friends are doing a one-off session, where each of us will use Lv20 characters and battle it out.

My question is, do you think I'd be better off using a Sorcerer 18/Hexblade 2 or just a lv20 sorcerer?

A pure sorcerer would have 2 exra sorcery points and an extra lv6 and lv 7 spell. A Hexblade would have armour, the curse, some melee ability, access to a great cantrip and 2 Invocations.

(I don't want to use more than 2 levels of Hexblade, as I don't want to lose out on Unearthly Recovery)

If it matters, the sorcerer will be a Favoured Soul (and both that and the Hexblade are from XGtE).

Any thoughts?
Hi :)
I think you answered your own question implicitely: you don't seem that attracted by the extra features of lvl 20 Sorcerer, and you don't see to have a plan for the 5th ASI either...

And 2 1st level slots, albeit not much, could mean one quicken per short rest...
Plus best cantrip (although I would not expect using them cantrips that often as a lvl 20 character really, unless your DM throws many resource-consuming encounters at you in a single day) and other utility ones.

With that said, note that I don't remember what the Sorcerer capstone is exactly, if it's only "recover 4 SP once" or "recover SP every short rest" in which case honestly Hexblade would be mostly a net loss, unless you...
- planned on using Hex or Armor of Agathys regularly (but seriously, what are the odds, as a lvl 20 character?).
- planned on be a nova striker with Hexblade+Hex+upcast Scorching Ray (with pesky action economy, commonly "immune to" damate type at that level).
- planned on not staying far back away (in which case, by the way, against really dangerous creatures such as Ancients Dragons you would get hit most of the time anyways).

Basically, my suggestion would in fact be: if you have something really dear to you that requires the Warlock dip, go for it, otherwise, embrace a rare chance to play a cure capstoned caster. :)

[miburo]

Hexblade gets you Medium Armor + Shields (meaning you only need 14 Dex), Cha to melee weapon attacks (just in case), lots of quickened Eldritch Blasts (8 1d10+5 blasts in a single round!), and the always invaluable Shield spell. And assuming you took Agonizing Blast, at least one more useful invocation (maybe Repelling Blast or Devil's Sight, or do the whole CoffeeLock thing with Aspect of the Moon but that's kinda munchkin-y). You also get two short rest level 1 spell slots, which can be redeemed for 2 sorc points per short rest, so that's basically half the Sorc 20 capstone already.

Sorc 20 is kinda meh. Unless you really need the ASI, I'd go with the Hexblade dip.

[samcifer]

Quicken X + Eldritch blast is one of the most effecient ways to spend sorcery points.

Agreed. At lv. 20 (or as low as lv. 17), you can attack 4 times per usage of Eldritch Blast. If you quicken it, and cast it a second time as your regular action, that's 8 attacks from range during a single turn, something not even a fighter can match. Make sure to take Agonizing Blast as one of your Eldritch Evocations so you can do the extra damage.

[Citan]

Hexblade gets you Medium Armor + Shields (meaning you only need 14 Dex), Cha to melee weapon attacks (just in case), lots of quickened Eldritch Blasts (8 1d10+5 blasts in a single round!), and the always invaluable Shield spell. And assuming you took Agonizing Blast, at least one more useful invocation (maybe Repelling Blast or Devil's Sight, or do the whole CoffeeLock thing with Aspect of the Moon but that's kinda munchkin-y). You also get two short rest level 1 spell slots, which can be redeemed for 2 sorc points per short rest, so that's basically half the Sorc 20 capstone already.

Sorc 20 is kinda meh. Unless you really need the ASI, I'd go with the Hexblade dip.
You make all valid points, and that what makes me usually recommend Warlock dip... And that was my reaction at first glance...

But in a lvl 20 campaign? It of course depends much on the kind of campaign OP is gonna play, but considering a high-level one-shot, in his place I'd expect facing a lot of monsters which...
- Have so much bonus to hit that +2-3 won't make usually a difference: monsters having +12-14 to hit and dealing much damage on a single hit, so, sure with Shield spell and base 19 AC you can hold pretty nice, but it would consume quite a few amount of slots because it would be basically a requirement: plus you use the chance to Counterspell: I'd better count on avoiding to be targeted in the first place and grit my teeth when **** happens.
- Have many dangerous, crippling effects that totally bypass AC: between AOE (Dex), stupidity (Int), restrains (Str) and charm/frightened/turn-camp (Wis), there are many things more dangerous at high level: so having an extra feat to bump CON or take a Resilient in addition to Warcaster, or even Tough, may be a more pertinent option.
- Are so dangerous and so meaty HP-wise that you will spend most turns using spells that impose strong debuff, if only to try and burn through legendary saves, or maybe finally apply THAT "turn-the-tide" battle then turtle yourself into a hidden Dodging Sanctuary or the like. XD You will usually noty want to use weapon cantrips anyways: Booming Blade still means you have to take an OA (unless you Quicken it to Disengage but that makes it costly), GFB means two people close: Shocking Grasp / Misty Step will do the deal nicely, or you could use other spells if there are allies close around. :)

With that said, I forgot about Quicken + Dodge action: imposing disadvantage on all attacks make a base +3 AC much better, so if OP intends on using that card very often, the proficiency may be worth it. But that is really a very niche case and really won't help much against the really bad guys.
Other thing that may push the interest would be having OP's DM saying he will give high-power magical armors as starting equipment.
Otherwise, really, I expect extra level 6 and 7 will be better.

Whether you consider it as...
- Potential spells that can instantly change the encounter balance (Disintegrate? upcast Chain Lightning? Mass Suggestion? Delayed Blast Fireball? Reverse Gravity? Teleport? vs Hex, Armor of Agathys -although this one is nice upcast- etc)...
- Or as fuel for Sorcery Points (6+7 over a long rest + 4 every short rest vs 2 per short rest, so you'd need to take 8-10 short rests as multiclass to get the same "extra fuel")...
- Or the fact those two extra levels mean chances to learn 2-4 extra high level spells, so you can get Meteor Swarm AND Wish AND Time Stop etc (although you can swap older spells too, so depending on spell "wishes" that may not be an argument ;)).
The power balance really lies towards lvl 20 caster. And you can focus on getting equipment that helps your casting further.

With 5 ASI, take 2 for maxing CHA, then Resilient: Wisdom, then...
- either Warcaster + CON bump + Extended upcast Aid (Divine Soul) to go "all concentration"
- or armor feats if you really want extra armor (although then, why not take a SINGLE level dip in Hexblade Warlock? Or Life Cleric? ;)).
- or Alert to ensure you have a high chance of instantly giving a huge boost to your side and whatever else you'd like (good ol' Lucky always work, or Athlete to prone at range between turns -helps avoiding ranged attacks or hiding- or Spell Sniper if you'd like to still get a good 300 feet attack just in case).

[rooneg]

With 5 ASI, take 2 for maxing CHA, then Resilient: Wisdom, then...
- either Warcaster + CON bump + Extended upcast Aid (Divine Soul) to go "all concentration"
- or armor feats if you really want extra armor (although then, why not take a SINGLE level dip in Hexblade Warlock? Or Life Cleric? ;)).
- or Alert to ensure you have a high chance of instantly giving a huge boost to your side and whatever else you'd like (good ol' Lucky always work, or Athlete to prone at range between turns -helps avoiding ranged attacks or hiding- or Spell Sniper if you'd like to still get a good 300 feet attack just in case).

Also Inspiring Leader (AKA everyone gets an extra 25 hit points per short rest).

[Asmotherion]

I'll admit I am a bit biased on the subject, but I'll tell you that any Sorcerer with a minimum of a 2 level Warlock Dip is about twice as Powerful in dealing single target damage as any other Sorcerer, and from level 7 and above twice as effective (as effective, with the added bonus of dealing more damage). With the new Hexblade Patron giving you the option to Moonlight as a Gish (and combining some spells you have access to with it, be amazing at it) you can become anything between 2.5 to 3 times more effective than a regular full time Sorcerer, covering the effectiveness (as a character) of a skill monkey or a wizard (in my personal oppinion), as you can cover all battlegrounds, be it as a Mage, a Ranged Dammage Dealer, or a Martial (Ranged or Melee), and be somewhat effective in all of the above, perhaps spectacular if you specialise further.

Since you effectivelly Start at lv20 you also don't have to think of Spell Progression etc. You loose the bare minimum and gain the Best of Both. I would go as far as bargain Unearthly Recovery over Pact of the Blade (taking Agonising Blast and Improved Pact Blade as invocationst); One may save your life once per day, but you have healing, the other synergises with everything you do.

[Citan]

Also Inspiring Leader (AKA everyone gets an extra 25 hit points per short rest).
And I forgot about the fact OP chose Divine Soul, so he will want to get True Resurrection, Holy Aura, Antimagic Field...
As well as many Cleric and Sorcerer spells from 2nd to 6th level (Fly, Haste, Polymorph, Aid, Healing Words, Greater Restoration, possibly Spirit Guardians).

@Miburo and @Asmotherion: guys, again, we are talking about "level 20 party tailored encounters". Unless you actually played a Sorcerer 18 / Hexblade 2 as a melee gish in those and survived to brag about it, I'm afraid those view are of little insight.
Lvl 20 fights are in their own magnitude, really different in how they resolve compared to lvl 7 or even level 13 battles.

I love as much as you playing a character that has strengths in all fields, but I'd be curious to see the demonstration of how a 2-18 character ends as "2, 3 times better" than a pure Sorcerer when facing 17+ CR creatures.
But I know that arguing is just plain impossible because as always it depends so much of context (party composition, general campaign settings, "magic level", DM's mindset for encounters etc)...

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

[Temperjoke]

My friends are doing a one-off session, where each of us will use Lv20 characters and battle it out.


Yeah, so apparently a lot of posters missed that this was only going to be one session, and a battle royal, not a campaign and probably not fighting other monsters (insert joke about players being the real monsters).

I like the idea of going 18/2, 20th level Sorc isn't a huge thing, especially for the circumstances you have planned. Divine Soul will have flying, boosted healing spells, and a snap recovery of half your total health.

What race were you considering?

[Citan]

Yeah, so apparently a lot of posters missed that this was only going to be one session, and a battle royal, not a campaign and probably not fighting other monsters (insert joke about players being the real monsters).

I like the idea of going 18/2, 20th level Sorc isn't a huge thing, especially for the circumstances you have planned. Divine Soul will have flying, boosted healing spells, and a snap recovery of half your total health.

What race were you considering?
Honestly I'd say this is on the contrary a big up for pure Sorcerer: if it's all about one or two big fights, OP would struggle to even deplete his slots so there would be really no reason to use cantrips. XD

(EDIT: Although the idea of an "angel" raining down multiple rays of pure energy from high in the sky ~600 feet every turn thanks to fly + Agonizing Blast + Eldricht Spear + Spell Sniper + Quicken does have some appeal ^^)

[LeonBH]

You should create a strategy first, then build around that strategy.

A level 20 Divine Soul could do worse than open with Subtle Wish to create a Simulacrum + Otherworldly Wings. Then the simulacrum opens with a Subtle 8th level Hold Monster (4 targets) or Subtle 8th level Hold Person (7 targets), plus Otherworldly Wings.

Alternatively, open with a 7th level Etherealness spell and avoid combat until everyone else kills each other. Then return to combat when everyone left is within an inch of their lives and clean up what's left.

The above strategies don't require a Hexblade dip, so think of a strategy you like that involves the dip somehow.

[Raif]

Honestly I'd say this is on the contrary a big up for pure Sorcerer: if it's all about one or two big fights, OP would struggle to even deplete his slots so there would be really no reason to use cantrips. XD

(EDIT: Although the idea of an "angel" raining down multiple rays of pure energy from high in the sky ~600 feet every turn thanks to fly + Agonizing Blast + Eldricht Spear + Spell Sniper + Quicken does have some appeal ^^)

Only going to quote the 1 post but in general it seems you're talking about the sorlock as a gish, which I don't think he stated that is his desire (may have missed that). As a gish, yea at level 20 I wouldn't really recommend it.

I've played a level 15 melee version of the sorlock and instantly ran out of melee to rely on EB and it was much more gratifying. I had 23 AC due to a +2 half plate and shield but getting hit 1 time from a melee attack hurts. The AoE's aren't as bad due to Absorb Elements now on our spell list and having a decent dex to make use of the medium armor. I swapped to the ranged "angel" raining death from afar and was super pleased.

A ranged version with EB, definitely. A quickened EB + hex + curse does do more than a single disintegrate and can crit ona 19 per beam. Add in elven advantage and you can get some pretty gnarly damage.

I would say, for me, even for a 1 shot the sorlock would pull ahead as 1 there is very little the extra 2 levels in sorcerer would give you that I find appealing. The 6th & 7th level extra slots are nice, but I feel the ability to EB + AB is a viable alternative in ranged power (if not technically better), and the ease of offloading shield onto the warlock spells known makes grabbing an extra sorcerer spell nice.

It comes down to what you want more, an extra 6/7 level slot or insane single target damage from quickening EB's. Both have short rest regen of sorcerery points available and both get a few more spells. Sorlock is extra low level spells making spell selection a bit easier, pure sorcerer is just 2 extra slots.

[Citan]

Only going to quote the 1 post but in general it seems you're talking about the sorlock as a gish, which I don't think he stated that is his desire (may have missed that). As a gish, yea at level 20 I wouldn't really recommend it.

I've played a level 15 melee version of the sorlock and instantly ran out of melee to rely on EB and it was much more gratifying. I had 23 AC due to a +2 half plate and shield but getting hit 1 time from a melee attack hurts. The AoE's aren't as bad due to Absorb Elements now on our spell list and having a decent dex to make use of the medium armor. I swapped to the ranged "angel" raining death from afar and was super pleased.

A ranged version with EB, definitely. A quickened EB + hex + curse does do more than a single disintegrate and can crit ona 19 per beam. Add in elven advantage and you can get some pretty gnarly damage.

I would say, for me, even for a 1 shot the sorlock would pull ahead as 1 there is very little the extra 2 levels in sorcerer would give you that I find appealing. The 6th & 7th level extra slots are nice, but I feel the ability to EB + AB is a viable alternative in ranged power (if not technically better), and the ease of offloading shield onto the warlock spells known makes grabbing an extra sorcerer spell nice.

It comes down to what you want more, an extra 6/7 level slot or insane single target damage from quickening EB's. Both have short rest regen of sorcerery points available and both get a few more spells. Sorlock is extra low level spells making spell selection a bit easier, pure sorcerer is just 2 extra slots.
Again...
We are talking about one-shot session here.
How many encounters will OP face? If it's one-shot session that lasts one evening, with 2 big encounters and a few other normal ones, you will seriously have little chance to use Eldricht Blast (or rather, you won't need the extra oomph it brings compared to plain Sorcerer).

And "2 just extra slots" is really underselling things: those two mean either 7 more Quicken per day (actually 8 counting for the extra SP regain on short rest), or the same number of extra Shields (since 2 SP = 1 1st level slot) or a Disintegrate / upcast Fireball / whatever other high level spell you have, with most of them having ability to hit several targets and minimum damage ensured, or totally disabling a dangerous foe (Hold/Dominate, .

EB does make you great at a niche, which is far ranged attacks, but you just have so many great spells to use instead, with most of them requiring you to be less than 120 feet away from target, that counting on EB basically means you renounce using most of your spellcasting, unless heavy use of Distant metamagic (which prevents Quicken, Twin, Heigthened). So that's really a tough pick, unless you decide to pick only great range spells such as Sunburst, Delayed Blast Fireball etc...
Or you are afraid to not have anything good to do with a leveled slot in some turns, but I don't really see how. ;)

[Raif]

Again...
We are talking about one-shot session here.
How many encounters will OP face? If it's one-shot session that lasts one evening, with 2 big encounters and a few other normal ones, you will seriously have little chance to use Eldricht Blast (or rather, you won't need the extra oomph it brings compared to plain Sorcerer).

And "2 just extra slots" is really underselling things: those two mean either 7 more Quicken per day (actually 8 counting for the extra SP regain on short rest), or the same number of extra Shields (since 2 SP = 1 1st level slot) or a Disintegrate / upcast Fireball / whatever other high level spell you have, with most of them having ability to hit several targets and minimum damage ensured, or totally disabling a dangerous foe (Hold/Dominate, .

EB does make you great at a niche, which is far ranged attacks, but you just have so many great spells to use instead, with most of them requiring you to be less than 120 feet away from target, that counting on EB basically means you renounce using most of your spellcasting, unless heavy use of Distant metamagic (which prevents Quicken, Twin, Heigthened). So that's really a tough pick, unless you decide to pick only great range spells such as Sunburst, Delayed Blast Fireball etc...
Or you are afraid to not have anything good to do with a leveled slot in some turns, but I don't really see how. ;)

I mentioned the fact that for me in a 1 shot I still prefer the sorlock, and I have done both in 1 shots. I did a one shot of "Against the Giants" (only the first bit) and another high level 1 shot that was taken from AL. One level 15 and another level 20. I had plenty of uses for quicken EB in all instances, as my sessions were around 5 hours each with plenty of combat.

I certainly did not mean to undersell an extra 6th & 7th level slot, those are big slots to have. Personally, I don't like disintegrate as I really don't like the all or nothing aspect without heightened metamagic (which I normally don't take). On a divine sorcerer an extra 6&7th level slot means an extra heal, firestorm, harm, reverse gravity, and all the upcasted goodness.

I don't use my spells normally to deal damage, but to buff or debuff my party/enemies so I really enjoy having EB to do my damage. I also don't stay at max range almost ever, I like to stay around 50 feet away for counterspell and dispel magic as I normally fill those slots for my party at all times (I have a static group of players). I look at the sorlock multiclass as shoring up the "dpr" weakness I always feel when playing a sorcerer, as a decent option if you don't want to use a spell. And with how my DM's do stuff in our 1 shots, saving spells for me is a good thing. They tend to go all out on the combat and just throw tons of encounters our way (super fun) and we just go at it. Knocking on doors that we shouldn't, taking on 30 giants, you know, the regular shenanigans you do in 1 shots.

Both are viable, they're just different ways of playing.

[Dr. Cliché]

Just to clarify - it's literally going to be a single, big battle.

It'll either be a battle royal between players or else two teams of PCs battling each other (probably depending on whether or not we have an even number of players).

So there won't be multiple encounters, there won't be monsters (unless someone summons them) and it's highly unlikely that there will be any rests of any kind allowed.

[NinaWu]

Looks pretty cut and dried to me, hex and sorc.
It seems to be one of the good things about 5e is the benefits you can get for 2 levels of a class (eg div wiz) that seem to more than make up for the loss from multiclassing.

I love the spell recycling.

[Raif]

Just to clarify - it's literally going to be a single, big battle.

It'll either be a battle royal between players or else two teams of PCs battling each other (probably depending on whether or not we have an even number of players).

So there won't be multiple encounters, there won't be monsters (unless someone summons them) and it's highly unlikely that there will be any rests of any kind allowed.

Then that entirely depends on what you want to play.

Sorlock

Insane at will single target damage
Possible CC with Repelling blast
higher armor
extra HP from the higher hit dice (small amount)
18 spells versus 15 (15 from sorcerer 17, 3 from warlock including shield which lets you choose another higher level spell)


Sorcerer

Extra 6&7 spell slot
Extra ASI
2 more sorcerer points


For a battle royal I'd go sorlock, the AC and the damage at will of EB + hex (I'd use the hexblade curse on the biggest threat only) will be pretty clutch, help you survive and be able to do some nasty damage.

[Dr. Cliché]

Then that entirely depends on what you want to play.

Sorlock

Insane at will single target damage
Possible CC with Repelling blast
higher armor
extra HP from the higher hit dice (small amount)
18 spells versus 15 (15 from sorcerer 17, 3 from warlock including shield which lets you choose another higher level spell)


Sorcerer

Extra 6&7 spell slot
Extra ASI
2 more sorcerer points


For a battle royal I'd go sorlock, the AC and the damage at will of EB + hex (I'd use the hexblade curse on the biggest threat only) will be pretty clutch, help you survive and be able to do some nasty damage.

Just a point, but I'd actually been planning to take just 2 levels of Warlock - so that I could still get the Lv18 Favoured Soul ability.

Does that change anything on this front?


Also, do you guys have any advice regarding spell selections? Sorcerers have so few spells known and Favoured Souls have two whole lists to pick from. :smalltongue:

I was thinking along the lines of:

Lv1:
- Shield
- Bless
- Healing Word
- Mage Armour [Pure sorcerer only]

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Spiritual Weapon

Lv3:
- Haste
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment

Lv5
- Animate Objects

Lv6
- Sunbeam

Lv7
- Regenerate

Lv8
- Horrid Wilting or Holy Aura

Lv9
- Psychic Scream (Would I be better off with Wish? :smallconfused:)

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Temperjoke]

Just a point, but I'd actually been planning to take just 2 levels of Warlock - so that I could still get the Lv18 Favoured Soul ability.

Does that change anything on this front?


Also, do you guys have any advice regarding spell selections? Sorcerers have so few spells known and Favoured Souls have two whole lists to pick from. :smalltongue:

I was thinking along the lines of:

Lv1:
- Shield
- Bless
- Healing Word
- Mage Armour [Pure sorcerer only]

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Spiritual Weapon

Lv3:
- Haste
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment

Lv5
- Animate Objects

Lv6
- Sunbeam

Lv7
- Regenerate

Lv8
- Horrid Wilting or Holy Aura

Lv9
- Psychic Scream (Would I be better off with Wish? :smallconfused:)

Any thoughts or suggestions?

You might want to consider Sickening Radiance, it's a concentration spell, but it causes damage and exhaustion to anyone in it or moving into it during their turn while it's maintained, as well as blocking all benefits from invisibility, which isn't bad for a 4th level spell. Wish might be better for a level 9 spell, because it's a catch-all spell. It gives you the freedom to handle any situation that might come up that you didn't anticipate. You might want another offensive spell or two as well, given the circumstances, you can pump out a lot of firepower.

[Raif]

Just a point, but I'd actually been planning to take just 2 levels of Warlock - so that I could still get the Lv18 Favoured Soul ability.

Does that change anything on this front?


Also, do you guys have any advice regarding spell selections? Sorcerers have so few spells known and Favoured Souls have two whole lists to pick from. :smalltongue:

I was thinking along the lines of:

Lv1:
- Shield
- Bless
- Healing Word
- Mage Armour [Pure sorcerer only]

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Spiritual Weapon

Lv3:
- Haste
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment

Lv5
- Animate Objects

Lv6
- Sunbeam

Lv7
- Regenerate

Lv8
- Horrid Wilting or Holy Aura

Lv9
- Psychic Scream (Would I be better off with Wish? :smallconfused:)

Any thoughts or suggestions?

No, it doesn't change anything from what I mentioned, I assumed you were talking a 2 level dip. Your spell list is missing 3 spells as you get 3 1st level spells from Warlock. Your spell list, while decent, is so concentration heavy. For a battle royal I'd suggest the following:


Lv1:
Sorcerer
- Healing Word
Warlock
- Shield
- Hex
- Hellish Rebuke

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Hold Person (concentration)

Lv3:
- Haste (concentration) or Fireball
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment (concentration)
- Sickening Radiance (concentration)

Lv5
- Animate Objects (concentration)
- Synaptic Static

Lv6
- Sunbeam (concentration)
- Heal

Lv7
- Reverse Gravity (concentration)
- Firestorm or Crown of Stars


Lv8

Lv9
- Wish (use this to recreate any level 8 or lower spell)

I'm not 100% sold on haste for a battle royal unless you really have someone who can use it. Remember, you would be up against players who understand the meaning if "break the casters concentration" so you may have other spells that would be better to use said concentration like Reverse Gravity or Hold person to make sure that they are out of range or unable to act. I

[Citan]

Just a point, but I'd actually been planning to take just 2 levels of Warlock - so that I could still get the Lv18 Favoured Soul ability.

Does that change anything on this front?


Also, do you guys have any advice regarding spell selections? Sorcerers have so few spells known and Favoured Souls have two whole lists to pick from. :smalltongue:

I was thinking along the lines of:

Lv1:
- Shield
- Bless
- Healing Word
- Mage Armour [Pure sorcerer only]

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Spiritual Weapon

Lv3:
- Haste
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment

Lv5
- Animate Objects

Lv6
- Sunbeam

Lv7
- Regenerate

Lv8
- Horrid Wilting or Holy Aura

Lv9
- Psychic Scream (Would I be better off with Wish? :smallconfused:)

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Honestly it depends much on your choice of metamagics too.
For example...

Haste is a big waste of your concentration unless 1. you have Twinned 2. You have two people that can really use it (DON'T use it on you. Seriously. You don't want to get broken of concentration in the middle of the fight) 3. You are actually a Sorc 18 / Warlock 2 that can stay far out of the heat and just focus on maintaining concentration while unleashing Eldricht Blast.
With that said, you may like the idea of combining it with Tough feat (on you), Inspiring Leader (everyone) and Twin Warding Bond (on the Hasted guys): technically works by RAW, but your HP would go down quickly so it would be a gamble.

Hex would be mostly as useless unless you are Hexblade Warlock with Mage Slayer, Spell Sniper and Elemental Adept feat, as well as Agonizing Blast+Repelling Blast, Scorching Ray and and Quicken + Empower metamagics, which kinda channels you in being a blaster, but a damn good one, especially in a PVP setting: casters will hate you because you are pretty sure to shut their concentration down thanks to 8 rays dealing good damage and imposing disadvantage on save (unless they get total cover or use Shield if they have it).

If you go for Extend metamagic instead, Aid is the one spell you HAVE to pick: Extended upcast as a lvl 9 spell means extra 45 HP for your party.
On that front, other spells that would fare great with it would be:
- Spiritual Weapon (beware of range though, best with high defense: either Mirror Image or high AC through Hexblade dip, OR use Distant spell instead but then not Extend).
- Spirit Guardians (this one means armor feats or Hexblade dip mandatory, AND Mirror Image, AND upcast Aid, AND any other way to buff your resilience: because you WILL be in melee).
- Wall of Fire (or any wall effect really): twice as long may help keep a chokepoint.
- Delayed Blast Fireball: cast Extended Sanctuary, then start concentrating on Extended Delayed Blast Fireball (technically the spell doesn't affect an enemy creature -at least yet-) or if picky DM do in reverse order (unless I'm mistaken, although you are "concentrating" to prepare the cast, you can still cast non-concentration spells normally).
- Holy Aura would be gravvy (especially paired with Alert and Warcaster feat).
- Armor of Agathys if you go the whole "melee gish" way is a definite option to grab: with Extended you have a better chance of anticipating the moment in which it will really be useful.

Apart from that, Time Stop is one I'd definitely take (with Alert feat), especially if you plan on being a gish exposing himself to danger or need to turtle up somewhere to prepare a big tactic: you could use it to buff yourself with everything you need and positioning yourself best before engaging.

If you are going PVP, Twin True Seeing could very well be worth too, as well as Heroes's Feast (for advantage on Wisdom saves notably).

Note that as pure lvl 20 Sorcerer, you could have Meteor Swarm, Wish, True Resurrection, Psychic Scream and Time Stop. Of course you have only one 9th slot though. ^^


More generally, the one spells I would always get as a Divine Soul Sorcerer:
Shield, Healing Words, Spiritual Weapon, Fireball, Slow, Enhance Ability, Polymorph, Greater Restoration, Mass Suggestion, Resurrection, Symbol, Wish. Then choose the rest depending on metamagics and focus (melee/ranged, blaster/debuffer/helper).

Note that I'm totally unaware of the new spells from Xanathar (except Psychic Scream which I just looked about), but from the little I got in this forum many of them are great options.

[LeonBH]

Haste is a big waste of your concentration unless 1. you have Twinned 2. You have two people that can really use it (DON'T use it on you. Seriously. You don't want to get broken of concentration in the middle of the fight)

It's a PvP. He has nobody else to cast it on. Also, Haste is a great spell to have on you (fly up 240ft and out of range of most attacks and nearly all spells in round 1). It depends on how efficiently you build around it. Divine Soul's Favored of the Gods is a +2d4 to saves 1/SR so you can risk taking one hit. Presumably, you would also take War Caster to ensure maximum odds of concentration.

[Temperjoke]

It's a PvP. He has nobody else to cast it on. Also, Haste is a great spell to have on you (fly up 240ft and out of range of most attacks and nearly all spells in round 1). It depends on how efficiently you build around it. Divine Soul's Favored of the Gods is a +2d4 to saves 1/SR so you can risk taking one hit. Presumably, you would also take War Caster to ensure maximum odds of concentration.

Well, he might, he said there was the chance of team pvp depending on the number of players.

EDIT: I still agree that Haste probably isn't a good pick for these circumstances.

[Citan]

First he never said about being alone in fighting.
Second 240 feet in the air wont be enough to escape a good ranged attacker (sharpshooter martial or dedicated eldricht blaster).
Third a high level Sorcerer has much better spells to use his concentration on. Confer all the suggestions of spells in the whole thread.
Just Holy Aura would be magnitudes better but if you think taking 8th level spell is unfair then think of Heigthened Hold/Dominate spell or Heightened 5th level Bestow Curse for a more classic tactic.

[Temperjoke]

Just to clarify - it's literally going to be a single, big battle.

It'll either be a battle royal between players or else two teams of PCs battling each other (probably depending on whether or not we have an even number of players).

So there won't be multiple encounters, there won't be monsters (unless someone summons them) and it's highly unlikely that there will be any rests of any kind allowed.


First he never said about being alone in fighting.
Second 240 feet in the air wont be enough to escape a good ranged attacker (sharpshooter martial or dedicated eldricht blaster).
Third a high level Sorcerer has much better spells to use his concentration on. Confer all the suggestions of spells in the whole thread.
Just Holy Aura would be magnitudes better but if you think taking 8th level spell is unfair then think of Heigthened Hold/Dominate spell or Heightened 5th level Bestow Curse for a more classic tactic.

Well, he said it could go either way, so it doesn't hurt to have a plan for either situation, assuming he gets a chance for last-minute adjustment once they know the scenario.

[Citan]

Well, he said it could go either way, so it doesn't hurt to have a plan for either situation, assuming he gets a chance for last-minute adjustment once they know the scenario.
Fair enough. ;)

But even if you are lucky enough to get an open-sky encounter, be first Initiative and have no real threat because no long range attacker on the other side, I'm not sure your friends would really enjoy seeing their all-powerful Wish-able caster just lay back from 300-400 feet away (because might as well take Spell Sniper and Eldricht Spear while you are at it ;))...
Just hurling rays of Eldricht Blast, while they all on the ground suffer potential nova attacks from a Barbarian / Rogue (which you could shut down or turn with Hold/Dominate), insta-kill (Open Hand) or stuns (others) from Monk (which you could try and shut down with Phantasmal Force), powerful spells from casters (which you could shut down with a large array of spells, including the new 9th level spell that deals psychic damage, or just a good old Counterspell).

I mean, if you get Mage Slayer, you will at least help in making enemy spells end early, but won't help much in any other regard...

And if by any bad luck you actually have someone in enemy party that can target and hit you reliably several times per turn (Distant upcast Scorching Ray, Eldricht Blast, Sharpshooter Champion) and you roll bad on your concentration save, you will be stunned until the end of your next turn, provided you first survive the 20d6 damage from free fall.

Might actually be a fun challenge if you know for sure there are ranged attackers. XD

[Dr. Cliché]

No, it doesn't change anything from what I mentioned, I assumed you were talking a 2 level dip. Your spell list is missing 3 spells as you get 3 1st level spells from Warlock. Your spell list, while decent, is so concentration heavy. For a battle royal I'd suggest the following:


Lv1:
Sorcerer
- Healing Word
Warlock
- Shield
- Hex
- Hellish Rebuke

Lv2:
- Misty Step
- Mirror Image
- Hold Person (concentration)

Lv3:
- Haste (concentration) or Fireball
- Counterspell

Lv4:
- Banishment (concentration)
- Sickening Radiance (concentration)

Lv5
- Animate Objects (concentration)
- Synaptic Static

Lv6
- Sunbeam (concentration)
- Heal

Lv7
- Reverse Gravity (concentration)
- Firestorm or Crown of Stars


Lv8

Lv9
- Wish (use this to recreate any level 8 or lower spell)

I'm not 100% sold on haste for a battle royal unless you really have someone who can use it. Remember, you would be up against players who understand the meaning if "break the casters concentration" so you may have other spells that would be better to use said concentration like Reverse Gravity or Hold person to make sure that they are out of range or unable to act. I

Small problem with your list - Warlocks can't take Shield.

Also, it seems weird not knowing any 8th level spells. Isn't that a waste?

[Raif]

Warlocks who are hexblades can certainly take shield. Its on their expanded spell list.

As for not taking a level 8, i dont see it as a waste if you want to upcast something. I didnt see any that warranted taking imo.

[Dr. Cliché]

Warlocks who are hexblades can certainly take shield. Its on their expanded spell list.

As for not taking a level 8, i dont see it as a waste if you want to upcast something. I didnt see any that warranted taking imo.

Ah, I forgot about the expanded spell list. :smalleek: