Ways to get Succubi to count as an Humanoid?

[Westhart]

As the title suggests, I need a Succubi to count as a humanoid so I may apply the Death Knight template to it, thanks!

[Crake]

Get polymorphed into a human before having the death knight template applied? Or, if you're the DM, just do it anyway, because why not.

[Necroticplague]

As the title suggests, I need a Succubi to count as a humanoid so I may apply the Death Knight template to it, thanks!

Arguably, Human heritage could do exactly what you want. The hard part would be defining exactly what 'human-descended' means. Since demons are made from souls, one could argue the 'descend' from any ensouled creature that can be Evil, so thus qualify.

[Afgncaap5]

Get polymorphed into a human before having the death knight template applied? Or, if you're the DM, just do it anyway, because why not.

Gonna second this. While there's generally good reasons for templates to only count for the creatures they're meant to count for, this feels like a case where a DM could bend the rules.

[Nifft]

Arguably, Human heritage could do exactly what you want. The hard part would be defining exactly what 'human-descended' means. Since demons are made from souls, one could argue the 'descend' from any ensouled creature that can be Evil, so thus qualify.

This is good.

Another path might be to make the campaign setting such that Succubi / Inccubi are the result of a Succubi / Inccubi union with a mortal (i.e. instead of Alu-Fiends or Half-Fiends or whatever), so that you can have a specific Succubi be the result of a demonic union with a Human.

Now that Succubus could qualify for Human Heritage.

[Telonius]

What specifically about a Succubus do you want to apply to Death Knight? There are ways to emulate a Succubus without actually being a Succubus (often with much fewer HD and LA).

[Thurbane]

A Succubus can also qualify for the Lichfiend template (LM); it's not Death Knight, but you don't have to jump through hoops to get it.

[Westhart]

What specifically about a Succubus do you want to apply to Death Knight? There are ways to emulate a Succubus without actually being a Succubus (often with much fewer HD and LA).
Well, there are a number of reasons but the game I was applying was tristalt, but one side could only be used for RHD/LA... Thus, Succubi did not cost me much, and was basically free, but filled what I wanted, and death knight fit the flavor of the character...

A Succubus can also qualify for the Lichfiend template (LM); it's not Death Knight, but you don't have to jump through hoops to get it.

Hmm, that may work instead, some minor character changes need to be reworked, but it might just work, thanks!

[Crake]

Arguably, Human heritage could do exactly what you want. The hard part would be defining exactly what 'human-descended' means. Since demons are made from souls, one could argue the 'descend' from any ensouled creature that can be Evil, so thus qualify.

That is such a squinty reading of those words. With that logic you could say practically any creature was human descended, because they were a human in a past life. Descendants are a bloodline thing, when you're talking about souls being reborn and reshaped, you're no longer blood related.

[Necroticplague]

That is such a squinty reading of those words. With that logic you could say practically any creature was human descended, because they were a human in a past life. Descendants are a bloodline thing, when you're talking about souls being reborn and reshaped, you're no longer blood related.
1. Barring the 'reincarnation' spell, I don't think past lives are normally a thing in DnD.
2. I'm aware it's very shaky. Thus, why I said using that was 'the hard part'.

[Crake]

1. Barring the 'reincarnation' spell, I don't think past lives are normally a thing in DnD.

That's debatable. Petitioners eventually merge with the plane they return to upon death, and those planes are made up of "soul stuff" as far as I'm aware, which is what's used to create new souls, so in that sense, souls are like play-dough, you take out a chunk, use it to make a thing, then when you're done, return it back to the giant glob. Basically reincarnation right?

I could be wrong on that though.

[Necroticplague]

which is what's used to create new souls....

I could be wrong on that though.
Yeah, you are wrong. Souls come from the Positive Energy Plane, not any Outer Plane. They grow on trees.

I wish I was making that last part up. Magic of Incarnum, page 207.

[legomaster00156]

Yeah, you are wrong. Souls come from the Positive Energy Plane, not any Outer Plane. They grow on trees.

I wish I was making that last part up. Magic of Incarnum, page 207.
Asmodeus: "How many souls did you lose? Do you think these things grow on trees?"
Beelzebub: "They do, actually."

[ShurikVch]

Another variant of Lichfiend was in the Shackled City Adventure Path.
It required evil outsider with Evil Brand and at least 11 levels in a spellcasting class.
This variant of Lichfiend, unlike a "usual" Lich (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm), got Insanity Touch instead Paralyzing Touch, and don't need a phylactery: whichever Evil power it serves will restore it until the Lichfiend "outlives" it's usefulness
The only way to permanently slay a lichfiend is to use a miracle or wish within one round of the lichfiend's destruction to prevent its life force from returning to its patron, or to convince its patron to destroy the lifeforce rather than restore it to a body.


Also, Vanthus Vanderboren (villain from the Savage Tide adventure path) was a Human,

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/c0/9d/fb/c09dfb35c34ecfebcd87a039f4d75b41.jpg

then transformed into Lemorian (Half-Fiend variant),

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/scratchpad/images/c/cd/04_ToD06.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/433?cb=20080212045124

and later - turned into Death Knight!

http://cp12.nevsepic.com.ua/77-3/thumbs/1355590690-1193918-www.nevsepic.com.ua.jpg

Maybe, "Humanoid" is just a guideline?

[khadgar567]

did any one check the dictionary since adding oid suffix means its human like aka has similar shape to human so. surprise surprise sucubi and incubi are humanoids by virtue of having same body shape with humans so you can actually made dead knight succubus via clean logic.( I really think creator thought the them thing by that time)

[Darrin]

Arguably, Human heritage could do exactly what you want. The hard part would be defining exactly what 'human-descended' means. Since demons are made from souls, one could argue the 'descend' from any ensouled creature that can be Evil, so thus qualify.

Human Heritage relies quite a deal on fluff. There are lots of different ways to rearrange the fluff. Example:

The offspring of a succubus/incubus and a human is, according to typical mythology, called a "cambion". In Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, there is a 3.5 version of the Cambion Demon, and it does mention in the description that it's usually the offspring of a "powerful tanar'ri father and a planetouched mother - usually a tiefling". Tieflings are outsiders but can legitimately claim a mixed human ancestry. So you could say this character started out as a cambion demon with the Human Heritage feat. Half-breeds are generally treated poorly, so she did not enjoy the prejudice and hostility frequently inflicted on her by her peers. After performing some notable achievement (or arranging some legendary blackmail), she convinced her father to perform a ritual that would convert her into a full-blooded succubus. (Some sort of Supernatural variation on polymorph any object, so the change is permanent and non-dispellable.) She retains her feats, hence she still has the Human Heritage feat, and can still claim human ancestry through her mother.

[Necroticplague]

did any one check the dictionary since adding oid suffix means its human like aka has similar shape to human so. surprise surprise sucubi and incubi are humanoids by virtue of having same body shape with humans so you can actually made dead knight succubus via clean logic.( I really think creator thought the them thing by that time)

Except that humanoid is a specific game term. The Humanoid Type entry makes it clear that 'humanoid' and 'creature of the Humanoid type' are interchangeable terms.

[Thurbane]

Maybe, "Humanoid" is just a guideline?

The DM can always Rule ) template reqs: Creatures That Cannot Be (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060407a), for instance.