I need collective help to stat THIS Eldritch Horror (READY FOR PEACH!)

[Arkhios]

Initially I intended to use an Incorporeal Aboleth in a game I'm about to run, but then I half-promised to use this charming... gentlentacle? Instead as an actual figurine. Unfortunately, it looks nothing like an aboleth, but also nothing I've yet encountered in Monster Manual or in Volo's

It should be a powerful solo creature, perhaps even deadly, but manageable for a group of 5 to 6 PC's of level 5.
I imagined the creature would remain stationary and be a "psionic" adversary using mental abilities mostly, but should have at least one strong claw attack. And something to do with those tentacles.

So, please help me! It's driving me insane (probably one more thing it would do is cause severe madness)

https://img0.etsystatic.com/211/0/77981151/icm_fullxfull.142354700_aifyhkuw05s8cw4408o0.jpg

[Aett_Thorn]

Looks like a Morkoth. I think that they are in Volo's, but I'm not sure. I'm fairly certain that I've seen them stated for 5e, though.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Looks like a Morkoth. I think that they are in Volo's, but I'm not sure. I'm fairly certain that I've seen them stated for 5e, though.

It does look like a Morkoth, and they are in Volo's (page 177). Unfortunately, that's CR 11, so it might* be a bit much for this party. Maybe it could be toned down a bit though. Taking off the chain lightning spell should cut its CR down a bit, I'd think.

*Edit: actually, it might be just about manageable, if you have 6 PCs.

[Arkhios]

It does look like a Morkoth, and they are in Volo's (page 177). Unfortunately, that's CR 11, so it might* be a bit much for this party. Maybe it could be toned down a bit though. Taking off the chain lightning spell should cut its CR down a bit, I'd think.

Agreed, it does look alike. I think I'd want him/her/it to be unique in some way, since the statue is uniquely handmade, as well. :)

[Rogerdodger557]

It does look like a Morkoth, and they are in Volo's (page 177). Unfortunately, that's CR 11, so it might* be a bit much for this party. Maybe it could be toned down a bit though. Taking off the chain lightning spell should cut its CR down a bit, I'd think.

*Edit: actually, it might be just about manageable, if you have 6 PCs.

I've had a group of 3 level 5 spellcasters(Bard, Wizard, and Sorcerer/Cleric) take down a CR 14 creature. It's not the CR that matters, its how they approach the fight.

[Aett_Thorn]

Agreed, it does look alike. I think I'd want him/her/it to be unique in some way, since the statue is uniquely handmade, as well. :)

Yup, I'd say change it up a bit, but might give you a good place to start.

[Arkhios]

Yup, I'd say change it up a bit, but might give you a good place to start.

Yeah. That Hypnosis is absolutely going to remain!

Probably going to change bite to claw, and, as Ninja_Prawn suggested, remove Chain Lightning.

[Great cthulhu]

Perhaps a creature from the far realm?

[Arkhios]

Perhaps a creature from the far realm?

Well, isn't that kind of obvious?

[Rogerdodger557]

Perhaps a creature from the far realm?


Well, isn't that kind of obvious?

To be fair, he is biased. I mean, just look at his username.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Well, isn't that kind of obvious?

"Eldritch Horror" rather implies it.

As for other changes you could make to the Morkoth stat block, you could give it some illusory powers, like phantasmal force and major image. That would make it easier for it to fight without moving much. Maybe give it the Aberrant Ground trait from the Gibbering Mouther, to make it even harder to escape once it gets you in its tentacles.

[Arkhios]

To be fair, he is biased. I mean, just look at his username.

Sure is. And smells of a fresh troll. As fresh as they can be, anyway.

As for other changes you could make to the Morkoth stat block, you could give it some illusory powers, like phantasmal force and major image. That would make it easier for it to fight without moving much. Maybe give it the Aberrant Ground trait from the Gibbering Mouther, to make it even harder to escape once it gets you in its tentacles.

Feels about right. I'll have to look up the Aberrant Ground trait, but I trust your judgment on this one :)

Also, for the record (if someone was wondering) the statue represents Hermaeus Mora (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Hermaeus_Mora), so funnily enough, Morkoth is more than appropriate as the base.

[damascoplay]

Isn't this a statue from Hermaeus Mora? From The Elder Scrolls?

[damascoplay]

Well, mind controlling spells would be a good thing for a creature with psionic abilities. Charm Person, Dissonant Whispers, and Phantasmal Force are good and fun to use, perhaps give these as an At will Spell.

Just gone assume this creature has a strenght of 20. So feel free to change these.

Multiattack. The Eldritch Horror makes three tentacle attacks,or makes one claw attack instead.

Claw: Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 20 (3d10 + 5) slashing damage.

Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 30 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d6 + 5) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained. The grappled creature can be pulled near the Eldritch Horror, and the monster can make one claw attack as an bonus action against it.

PS: Claw attack's gonna hurt really bad. There you have it.

I hope the average dmg is right... But meh...

[ad_hoc]

It does look like a Morkoth, and they are in Volo's (page 177). Unfortunately, that's CR 11, so it might* be a bit much for this party. Maybe it could be toned down a bit though. Taking off the chain lightning spell should cut its CR down a bit, I'd think.

*Edit: actually, it might be just about manageable, if you have 6 PCs.

CR 9 (legendary) for 6 level 5 PCs is a medium/hard encounter according to XgtE.

CR 11 (legendary) is recommended by XgtE for a perilous battle.

The Morkoth doesn't have Legendary Actions so will probably be an unsatisfying solo encounter. My suggestion would be to tone it down a bit but give it Legendary Actions and perhaps even a Lair Action.



I've had a group of 3 level 5 spellcasters(Bard, Wizard, and Sorcerer/Cleric) take down a CR 14 creature. It's not the CR that matters, its how they approach the fight.

A single 1st level PC can take down a CR 20 creature if the DM plays it that way. That doesn't mean that CR is flawed.

I've seen people post to forums that their party of 1st level PCs destroyed the entire Drow outpost at the start of OotA so the game is broken.

Says more about the DM than the game.

[Mongobear]

I've seen people post to forums that their party of 1st level PCs destroyed the entire Drow outpost at the start of OotA so the game is broken.

Says more about the DM than the game.

If you have a proper party, and approach it correctly, it's certainly possible. My group took the whole place on at 2nd level and killed everything but the main priestess chick. Mainly through well thought out tactics, and convincing most of the other prisoners to help. Once we jumped the armory/guard barracks and got well equipped, we advanced on the rest of the Outpost and mainly killed the drow by shoving them off the cliff into the spiders, or by sheer force of numbers.

Anyway, off topic for the point of the thread, I just had to go on this tangent.

[wilhelmdubdub]

Yeah. That Hypnosis is absolutely going to remain!

Probably going to change bite to claw, and, as Ninja_Prawn suggested, remove Chain Lightning.

I would add mind blast from mindflayers

[ad_hoc]

If you have a proper party, and approach it correctly, it's certainly possible. My group took the whole place on at 2nd level and killed everything but the main priestess chick. Mainly through well thought out tactics, and convincing most of the other prisoners to help. Once we jumped the armory/guard barracks and got well equipped, we advanced on the rest of the Outpost and mainly killed the drow by shoving them off the cliff into the spiders, or by sheer force of numbers.

Anyway, off topic for the point of the thread, I just had to go on this tangent.

Or you just have a DM who makes everything the players try succeed ~ and by extension the players have their characters attempt ludicrous things because of course they'll work.

Like I said, a 1st level PC can kill an ancient red dragon. That doesn't mean the game is broken. It just means that is what the people at the table wanted to happen.

Personally I find little interest in a game like that. If you're having fun and don't care about whether something is challenging then more power to you.

In that case though you shouldn't be in a thread about creating an appropriate challenge for a party.

For the record your party of 2nd level characters defeated (in 1 encounter):

12 CR 1/4
6 CR 1
1 CR 2
12 CR 2
5 CR 5
1 CR 8

[Arkhios]

I would add mind blast from mindflayers

Not bad idea. I might also begin the encounter so that the creature is in ethereal state. Either caused by itself or some environmental effect (this particular creature is somewhat out of place in the adventure –on purpose)

[Specter]

Given the number of tentacles and appendages it has, I would give it the Marilith's Parry and Reactive.

[Arkhios]

Given the number of tentacles and appendages it has, I would give it the Marilith's Parry and Reactive.

Noted. As soon as the christmas rush is over I'll sit down and begin to cook this lobster-octopus from the Far Realm.

---

Okay, I think it's done. Please, have a look and see if I made any mistakes in calculating the CR.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJ0-qa9mM (Use Chrome for best performance)

I had to make it gargantuan because the model base covers almost exactly (a few millimeters short) a 4 by 4 square.

I chose not to add Mind Blast because this creature is much more subtle in its mental manipulation, instead turning other creatures against each other, etc.

But, I added Eldritch Blast (without INT to damage) because it felt appropriate given his amount of eyes, like a beholder.

[bc56]

CR 9 (legendary) for 6 level 5 PCs is a medium/hard encounter according to XgtE.

CR 11 (legendary) is recommended by XgtE for a perilous battle.

The Morkoth doesn't have Legendary Actions so will probably be an unsatisfying solo encounter. My suggestion would be to tone it down a bit but give it Legendary Actions and perhaps even a Lair Action.


Morkoth does have lair actions: either it uses Hypnosis originating from a point within 120ft of it, or it casts Darkness, Dispel Magic, or Misty Step.


Wow. I have trouble believing that that creature is CR 9. I homebrewed a CR 12 creature with 100 fewer HP. However, it also looks super cool, and I could possibly use it as a boss.

[Arkhios]

Morkoth does have lair actions: either it uses Hypnosis originating from a point within 120ft of it, or it casts Darkness, Dispel Magic, or Misty Step.

Indeed. I took those, and altered them a bit; especially the spells, because I removed Misty Step from the creature's spell list.


Wow. I have trouble believing that that creature is CR 9. I homebrewed a CR 12 creature with 100 fewer HP. However, it also looks super cool, and I could possibly use it as a boss.

If you refer to what I 'brewed, I agree. I can't believe my eyes either :D I feel like I have made a mistake or few somewhere, because CR 9 seems really low for something with whopping 250 HP.

[MrStabby]

This looks like a potentially tough fight or a total pushover. I think a lot of it depends on the setup and the range that PCs can engage it from. It also depends on the abilities of the party - druids able to throw waves and waves of summoned bears at this guy from round a corner might not be troubled by it. Sure hypnosis might be a soft counter to this but still a big advantage.

There are a few nasty things that can happen here - tentacles restraining a melee fighter 15ft away from this guy? Tough break for them. Now these tentacles are pretty dangerous if you can drop Evard's black tentacles as well. Soft targets like casters that fail a wisdom save and step into the darkness can get grappled and stuck next to the horror and can go down pretty quickly (not to say keep concentration on spells)

Speaking of tentacles - the hypnosis ability has a nasty ability to pull people in to the tentacles. So sure it might break the hypnosis but if they are going to be restrained there anyway it needn't be the end of the world.

If the party can sustain some good saves (and DC17 is no pushover at level 5) then even the low level spells like darkness can be utterly vicious. Hypnosis doesn't need line of sight and you can pull people in to hit them with some pretty nasty attacks at advantage. AC14 isn't that high but to chew through 250 hp when you are attacking with disadvantage and up against shield (speaking of which what is the point of shield and being able to parry every turn with no other use for a reaction?).


My advice would be to drop HP a little (well quite a bit - like 80-90 at least) but broaden it's abilities. Dissonant whispers was mentioned up-thread. This can be a great spell for thinning out attacks on the bad guy - take melee fighters out of range. Maybe allow some legendary saves and legendary actions - let dissonant whispers be one of them. Even if it is only one save and one action. I broadening the lair action to cast a spell to allow any spell of third level or below might also be an option. This would enable the Horror to scry and probe the defences of the PCs, send messages to summon more reinforcements whilst ethereal without really having much of a combat impact.

[Arkhios]

Technically, the "lore" of this creature is that it's a lesser Great Old One, having been trapped inside the Tomb of a Dead God for thousands of years, and during that time it has been weakened to what it is now. It won't fight until death, and more than likely either flees in desperation as soon as it has been dropped to around 100 hp, or after it has killed someone and fed on its life force, and thus regained enough strength to leave the place (it's a plot device, kind of).

The venue is a roughly circular open chamber, descending towards center, around 120 feet in diameter, so it's relatively small but the PC's should have enough room to make tactical decisions, but I'll take that advice and add some rubble and such to provide cover here and there. I'll consider allowing up to 3rd level spells be cast as a lair action, as well.

This is a "Surprise" End Boss for a globally meaningful chain of events (the rise of the dead god, which also frees the Horror from its long captivity). Meaning that the creature isn't directly related to the events.

The campaign I'm running is likely to go on hiatus afterwards. I'm unsure if I'll continue from the events transpiring from defeating the Horror, though.

Players know that casualties are to be expected, but also that I'm not actively trying to kill anyone. Players are also aware that this session is likely to be the last one for some time - or indefinitely (of this campaign, of course).

[Unoriginal]

Here what I suggest:

Make sure that the room where the battle happens has pillars of stones here and there (natural or not), and large pools of liquid.

Then, give your Horror a speed equal to 1d10*10ft, rolling the die at the start of each of its turn, and at the same time roll 1d10:

Roll result: 1-2, it has a normal land speed

3-4, swim speed

5-6, climb speed + Spider Climb capacity

7-8, flight speed

9, teleportation

10, all of the previous options + an Haste spell effect.

That way you can really things up and show how weird it is by its movement alone.

[Arkhios]

Here what I suggest:

Make sure that the room where the battle happens has pillars of stones here and there (natural or not), and large pools of liquid.

Then, give your Horror a speed equal to 1d10*10ft, rolling the die at the start of each of its turn, and at the same time roll 1d10:

Roll result: 1-2, it has a normal land speed

3-4, swim speed

5-6, climb speed + Spider Climb capacity

7-8, flight speed

9, teleportation

10, all of the previous options + an Haste spell effect.

That way you can really things up and show how weird it is by its movement alone.

Funny idea, I'll definitely add that. There's likely to be pillars for sure, it's a pretty spacious tomb with the ceiling so high above that even the warlock with the darkvision invocation can't see it. (It's somewhere very deep underground.)

[Arkhios]

Oops? The horror split one PC in half with a critical hit from claw xP

[MrStabby]

Oops? The horror split one PC in half with a critical hit from claw xP

It is always a risk!

[Unoriginal]

Did you run this right now?

[Arkhios]

Did you run this right now?

A-yup! I ran a 6-encounter session on my birthday yesterday, with this one as the final encounter. The players were already half-dead when they faced it, so I guess it was kind of my fault?

[MrStabby]

A-yup! I ran a 6-encounter session on my birthday yesterday, with this one as the final encounter. The players were already half-dead when they faced it, so I guess it was kind of my fault?

Well it depends on the style of game. If they should have expected things to be easy or hard? Maybe if they had managed to be less profligate with resources earlier in the day? Were they able to avoid it?

Just because your tough encounter at the end of a tough day turned out hard, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

Excitement comes from risk and the unknown. The outcome is only unknown if there is doubt about survival. If there is a chance to die then it can happen without it being anyone's fault. If the tide was turned with a critical snipping in half then is this such a problem?

Did the players' have fun?

[Arkhios]

Well it depends on the style of game. If they should have expected things to be easy or hard? Maybe if they had managed to be less profligate with resources earlier in the day? Were they able to avoid it?

Just because your tough encounter at the end of a tough day turned out hard, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

Excitement comes from risk and the unknown. The outcome is only unknown if there is doubt about survival. If there is a chance to die then it can happen without it being anyone's fault. If the tide was turned with a critical snipping in half then is this such a problem?

Did the players have fun?

They did, even though there were casualties. Two, in fact. Although, the other died a heroic (yet unnecessary due to a bit foolhardy decision) death and went to Valhalla immediately so it doesn't count, I guess.