So can the baby..... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Kish

2017-12-19, 01:55 PM

Technically, you can't exist with some kind of level or hit die, so even a newborn should be a first-level commoner or humanoid.

That said, I don't think any reasonable interpretation of the rules could say Kudzu was "overcoming XP-granting challenges" by shouting "turn un deh!" while his mother holds him.

Fyraltari

2017-12-19, 02:14 PM

Yes. But only if he gets to fight a vampire baby.

denthor

2017-12-19, 03:38 PM

NPC class 1/2 exp for each fight. Follower not able to level yet. Can yell yeah to hype the crowd. All babies have special ability protect me mommy. Negates experience if used.

magwaaf

2017-12-19, 09:30 PM

im waiting for the baby to be what makes durkon rage out and break free

Goblin_Priest

2017-12-19, 10:26 PM

You can't win XP for participating in a fight where the CR is too high for you, if I remember the rules correctly.

Peelee

2017-12-19, 10:46 PM

You can't win XP for participating in a fight where the CR is too high for you, if I remember the rules correctly.

Tell that to Shelby.

The MunchKING

2017-12-19, 10:51 PM

You can't win XP for participating in a fight where the CR is too high for you, if I remember the rules correctly.

IIRC the DMG said something to the effect of "there must have been extenuating circumstances, so you probably shouldn't give out a full XP award for that CR". It left it open to the idea that you got a lower XP reward if you actually contributed to the win, but if you just won because Invinsicus the God-Mode NPC saved you, then yeah, No XP for you.

EDIT:

Tell that to Shelby.

Well the idea is while Shelby was a wimp, Xykon and Redcloak were doing most of the Damage, so Shelby should get the XP for the difference in CR for Team Evil vs. the Silver Dragon rather than his own pathetic CR.

eilandesq

2017-12-20, 02:12 AM

[QUOTE=The MunchKING;22681261]IIRC the DMG said something to the effect of "there must have been extenuating circumstances, so you probably shouldn't give out a full XP award for that CR". It left it open to the idea that you got a lower XP reward if you actually contributed to the win, but if you just won because Invinsicus the God-Mode NPC saved you, then yeah, No XP for you.

Given the timing of 3E coming out, they probably should have called it "the Harry Potter rule": "No, you're not going to get 100,000 XP for making the epic level necromancer explode, level 1 magic commoner baby."

Goblin_Priest

2017-12-20, 11:12 AM

http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/

The calculator says 0 xp for a lvl 1 guy that defeats a lvl 20 guy. It references the page to the DMG, which I don't currently have a copy of on hand. But I do believe I remember the chart explicitly not stating any experience for those "unbeatable" encounters.

I always saw it as the "no power leveling" rule, to prevent cheesing characters with leadership to cheese some high level protection onto followers to bring them to higher usefulness levels.

Draconi Redfir

2017-12-20, 01:50 PM

Well the idea is while Shelby was a wimp, Xykon and Redcloak were doing most of the Damage, so Shelby should get the XP for the difference in CR for Team Evil vs. the Silver Dragon rather than his own pathetic CR.

... Who the heck is Shelby?

martianmister

2017-12-20, 01:56 PM

A book-only character.

http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Shelby_the_Dragonslayer

Zombimode

2017-12-22, 06:03 AM

Technically, you can't exist with some kind of level or hit die, so even a newborn should be a first-level commoner or humanoid.

That is not correct. Things can exist without having explicit rules implementation.

If a specific mechanical element is needed for an interaction, this needs to be implemented. But there is no indication that "Baby" will map to "1st Level commoner".

Riftwolf

2017-12-22, 08:31 AM

Gaining the first level of a class requires such a massive xp accumulation the vampire fight is inconsequential. It takes at least six years before you can begin formal training in a class, then at least twelve to gain a first level. In contrast, the 2nd level takes a few days for most parties, maybe a month in an rp heavy campaign.
Some might argue that a 1st level wizard gains xp much faster than a baby. But if we accept all baby stats begin at 1-3, and all their xp goes into getting their stat blocks up to 10 as an average, the amount of xp required is far greater than any wizard could accumulate in his lifetime.

Syncrogti

2017-12-22, 09:13 AM

I say the baby will contribute by providing a morale bonus to his mom, with his super cute voice. Kind of like a Bard. A tiny Bard.

RatElemental

2017-12-22, 08:52 PM

To (badly) quote the giant on the topic, a baby's stats are as follows:

AC: You hit
HP: You monster
Move Speed: Gets away if you let it
Saves: Always miraculously succeeds
Alignment: TBD

No mention of actually having hit dice in there. But really, I think it's just common sense that the baby is too young to have levels in a class, pc or npc, unless you're using that weird unfledged homebrew class for some reason.

martianmister

2017-12-23, 08:59 AM

A better question would be: What would happen to his spirit if he's killed or vampirified by vampires? Can a baby die with or without honour? Is there baby vampire spirits for babies?

Draconi Redfir

2017-12-23, 11:06 AM

Is there baby vampire spirits for babies?

Babies are tiny sized right? They all join one vicious vampire swarm.

Emanick

2017-12-23, 03:45 PM

Babies are tiny sized right? They all join one vicious vampire swarm.

I feel like a terrible person for saying this... but applying the swarm rules and vampire template to a group of babies strikes me as incredibly funny.

Draconi Redfir

2017-12-23, 04:03 PM

I feel like a terrible person for saying this... but applying the swarm rules and vampire template to a group of babies strikes me as incredibly funny.

Nothing like a bit of pseudo dark-humor to make things fun :smallwink:

edit: And that is a GREAT quote to use out of context...

Fafnir13

2017-12-23, 08:39 PM

I'm reminded of Dead Space 2 where you actually do get to fight off swarms of babies......one of the only horror games I've ever played that made me actually feel horrified.

Can a baby die with or without honour?

I would lean towards babies and very young children getting an automatic honor bonus for any afterlife purposes. The honor a person has comes mainly from how they are meeting the expectations put upon them. Just existing is enough as that is all anyone expects or needs. As they get older, there's going to be some threshold of competency that will divide the honored/honorless ones. There are probably plenty of dwarven mothers out there telling their dwarven children to finish their liver/beets/whatever or Hel will claim their souls.

Or it could be Hel has millions of little dwarven baby souls in a pit somewhere. I kind of hope that isn't the case and, given the authors own comments (like the baby stats) I would doubt the baby soul pit thing to be something allowed to exist.

Goblin_Priest

2017-12-23, 08:51 PM

I'm reminded of Dead Space 2 where you actually do get to fight off swarms of babies......one of the only horror games I've ever played that made me actually feel horrified.

I would lean towards babies and very young children getting an automatic honor bonus for any afterlife purposes. The honor a person has comes mainly from how they are meeting the expectations put upon them. Just existing is enough as that is all anyone expects or needs. As they get older, there's going to be some threshold of competency that will divide the honored/honorless ones. There are probably plenty of dwarven mothers out there telling their dwarven children to finish their liver/beets/whatever or Hel will claim their souls.

Or it could be Hel has millions of little dwarven baby souls in a pit somewhere. I kind of hope that isn't the case and, given the authors own comments (like the baby stats) I would doubt the baby soul pit thing to be something allowed to exist.

You seem to assume the world is fair, which, as the author said, it isn't. After all, being slain by the gods in the re-weaving of the world is somehow unhonorable (how does that work?). Babies have about as much agency in how they die from monsters as adults have about how they die in world destruction.

That said, if we consider child mortality rate of the setting, that could potentially be a lot of baby souls, which would probably make Hel stronger than she appears to be now.

So... I don't know. But I doubt it'll ever matter.

Goblin_Priest

2017-12-23, 08:55 PM

I feel like a terrible person for saying this... but applying the swarm rules and vampire template to a group of babies strikes me as incredibly funny.

I'll keep this one in mind, should I ever DM again.

They've fought large cats made of pure "elemental" salt ('cause they can be so salty at times), they've fought a huge featherless chicken (because why the hell not). They fought swarms of killer white bunnies (they got teeth like this!)

Swarm of baby vampires... I like this.

Metahuman1

2017-12-24, 03:50 AM

I too think I will be borrowing that idea.

It would be hilarious of the kid already has "Rolled" stats and is just eating crippling penalty's to them, and by the end of the fight will still have that, but will also have a couple of cleric levels. I'll say that much.

Vamp: "And what are you going to do to stop me kid?"

Kudzu: "Curelight ounds!"

Vamp: "GAH!!!!! WHAT IN THE NINE HELL'S?!!!!!!"

Roy: *Charging Power Attack from behind.* "Thanks for the flank! Also, HOW?!!!!!"

Vinyadan

2017-12-24, 11:25 AM

I'm reminded of Dead Space 2 where you actually do get to fight off swarms of babies......one of the only horror games I've ever played that made me actually feel horrified.

Compare Doom III: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Cherub

In 3.5 there are starting ages for classes, so Kuz wouldn't be a playable PC, at least not with Cleric class levels. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#tableRandomStartingAges

Sprütche

2017-12-24, 11:49 AM

Vamp: "And what are you going to do to stop me kid?"

Kudzu: "Curelight ounds!"

Vamp: "GAH!!!!! WHAT IN THE NINE HELL'S?!!!!!!"

Roy: *Charging Power Attack from behind.* "Thanks for the flank! Also, HOW?!!!!!"

Not so farfetched. We have already met a favoured soul. Loki would probably grant the baby every spell when it is directed at the vampires. Perhaps Thor would join in. ;-)

Peelee

2017-12-24, 12:06 PM

Not so farfetched. We have already met a favoured soul. Loki would probably grant the baby every spell when it is directed at the vampires. Perhaps Thor would join in. ;-)

"The gods are bound by their self-imposed rules, but it's not implausible they would break those rules?" It's certainly a bold theory, I'll give you that.

Goblin_Priest

2017-12-24, 08:39 PM

"Who let the wights into the nursery!?"

AuthorGirl

2018-01-13, 01:05 AM

I feel like a terrible person for saying this... but applying the swarm rules and vampire template to a group of babies strikes me as incredibly funny.

That's hilarious. Assuming the quote in your signature counts as permission (?) I'm sigging this. It matches my sense of humour disturbingly well.

Honest Tiefling

2018-01-13, 01:05 PM

If we assume that die with honor means to die in honorable combat, then the baby might be alright against vampires because well...Combat. However, Durkula knows this and is probably far more likely to dangle the child in front of Hilgya while Elan makes a comment about the rating of the webcomic.

Peelee

2018-01-13, 01:18 PM

If we assume that die with honor means to die in honorable combat, then the baby might be alright against vampires because well...Combat.

If I dragged a sleeping dwarf into a warzone and he died from a thrown axe hitting him while still asleep, would that count as honorable due to combat?

Kish

2018-01-13, 01:20 PM

Probably, yeah. I mean, I can't see Thor not contesting "killed by a thrown axe," and I'm not sure Hel would even try for the "but he was asleep!" angle.

Peelee

2018-01-13, 01:33 PM

Probably, yeah. I mean, I can't see Thor not contesting "killed by a thrown axe," and I'm not sure Hel would even try for the "but he was asleep!" angle.

Eh, fair point. I wonder if they have some sort of moderator to settle disputes, or if Thor just gets to game the system on the sketchy cases?

Lacuna Caster

2018-01-13, 01:41 PM

Technically, you can't exist with some kind of level or hit die, so even a newborn should be a first-level commoner or humanoid.
How does actually becoming a first-level wizard or fighter or whatever work, in that case? Do you lose your 'freebie level' as soon as you pick up some more specific skill-set?

Peelee

2018-01-13, 02:27 PM

How does actually becoming a first-level wizard or fighter or whatever work, in that case? Do you lose your 'freebie level' as soon as you pick up some more specific skill-set?

That's how I'd rule it, barring someone else bringing up a better way.

Honest Tiefling

2018-01-13, 03:14 PM

Eh, fair point. I wonder if they have some sort of moderator to settle disputes, or if Thor just gets to game the system on the sketchy cases?

I thought that was 100% what happened, due to the whole liver or tree excuses. I mean, if you kept losing followers due to having to entertain Thor's thought processes, you'd also plan the remaking of the world to be less crap.

Kantaki

2018-01-13, 03:45 PM

"The gods are bound by their self-imposed rules, but it's not implausible they would break those rules?" It's certainly a bold theory, I'll give you that.

Aren't Favoured Souls basically divine Sorcerers?
Going by Xykon's past you can spontaneously develop sorcerous powers while still a kid.
A toddler suddenly awakening their divine gift in this moment of crisis wouldn't be much crazier like that.
Especially if they're favoured by Loki or Thor.

The timing would be awfully... „convenient”, but no worse a bending of the rules than Thor saving dwarven souls from Hel.
Not to mention other things he pulled.
:cough:Sonic damage from weather control:cough:

I doubt it will happen, cool as it would be, but I don't think it would break the rules so much as slightly bend them.
And it's unlikely the other gods of the Northern Pantheon will object too strenuously to a little coincidence messing up Hel's scheme.

Peelee

2018-01-13, 05:11 PM

Aren't Favoured Souls basically divine Sorcerers?
Going by Xykon's past you can spontaneously develop sorcerous powers while still a kid.

You're not really wrong, but Xykon's childhood both makes things really weird (he displays relatively high-level powers, especially for as young as he is), and is not in the online comic. For readers who have not seen any of the print-only material, it would certainly seem to be a DEM. My gold is on it never happening.

Kantaki

2018-01-13, 10:34 PM

You're not really wrong, but Xykon's childhood both makes things really weird (he displays relatively high-level powers, especially for as young as he is), and is not in the online comic. For readers who have not seen any of the print-only material, it would certainly seem to be a DEM. My gold is on it never happening.

Yeah, I wouldn't bet on it either.
Although the payout should it happen... Tempting...:smallbiggrin:

I just wanted to point out that by established Stick-verse rules kids spontaneously developing magic powers is not impossible.
Merely highly unlikely.

Kish

2018-01-13, 10:50 PM

I thought Peelee was addressing the claim that Loki would suddenly throw out the normal favored soul rules and "grant the baby every spell."

Peelee

2018-01-13, 11:18 PM

I thought Peelee was addressing the claim that Loki would suddenly throw out the normal favored soul rules and "grant the baby every spell."

And that Thor may join in, as well.

zimmerwald1915

2018-01-13, 11:20 PM

And that Thor may join in, as well.
Why wouldn't he? Thor's a deceitful, untrustworthy wretch, after all.

Honest Tiefling

2018-01-13, 11:22 PM

Wasn't Pink-Haired Elf Chick with the tiger and the grumpy bodyguard a Favored Soul? There's going to be a few non-standard classes here and there.

Through I wonder if we're going to get Freya to give the kid divine powers. I mean, goddess of motherhood and all. She hasn't appeared yet to my knowledge, but there's always time for more characters.

zimmerwald1915

2018-01-13, 11:26 PM

Peelee

2018-01-13, 11:28 PM

If Mr. Burlew makes a small child a serious combatant, allows a small child to gain XP, or otherwise incentivizes the bringing of small children into deadly situations, I will eat my hat. And my hat's been collecting dust and cobwebs in a corner of my closet for years.

I, for one, wouldn't be bothered if you were to get a tastier hat.:smalltongue:

Honest Tiefling

2018-01-13, 11:31 PM

I, for one, wouldn't be bothered if you were to get a tastier hat.:smalltongue:

I question the ability of dust to complement your outfit or skintone.

And admittedly...No child has been in danger yet in the comic. Through now that I think about it, what if it isn't a child? Loki is still the god of lies. Through tricking his priestess into thinking she's bringing her child onto the battlefield isn't much better, so what if she's in on it?

factotum

2018-01-14, 02:39 AM

And admittedly...No child has been in danger yet in the comic.

One of the panels when V cast Familicide showed an unhatched egg getting blasted by the spell, so that would technically be a child in the making who got killed there.

Personification

2018-01-14, 02:49 AM

If Mr. Burlew makes a small child a serious combatant, allows a small child to gain XP, or otherwise incentivizes the bringing of small children into deadly situations, I will eat my hat. And my hat's been collecting dust and cobwebs in a corner of my closet for years.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wordgirl/images/a/a5/Warden.png/revision/latest?cb=20100202153929

"I even made this one out of beef jerky..."

RatElemental

2018-01-14, 02:53 AM

I, for one, wouldn't be bothered if you were to get a tastier hat.:smalltongue:

I suggest one made of chocolate.

Vinyadan

2018-01-14, 06:14 AM

And admittedly...No child has been in danger yet in the comic.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html

Kantaki

2018-01-14, 07:38 AM

One of the panels when V cast Familicide showed an unhatched egg getting blasted by the spell, so that would technically be a child in the making who got killed there.

Several eggs and a hatchling actually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html).
Not to mention at least one kid related to Girard Draketooth.
So unless dragons and part-dragons somehow don't count „no child has been in danger yet” is demonstrably wrong.

I, for one, wouldn't be bothered if you were to get a tastier hat.:smalltongue:

A pizza hat maybe?:smallbiggrin:

zimmerwald1915

2018-01-14, 09:46 AM

So unless dragons and part-dragons somehow don't count „no child has been in danger yet” is demonstrably wrong.
Putting a child in danger, however, has yet to be shown as a good thing. Just the opposite. See Greenhilt, Eric - and that was mere negligence.

I strongly suspect that, likewise, Hilgya will not be rewarded for deliberately bringing Kudzu into battle.

Vinyadan

2018-01-14, 10:08 AM

zimmerwald1915

2018-01-14, 10:34 AM

Do children with broken arms and legs count, that have seen their mother crucified to a tree, and who are about to be devoured by a vengeful dragon feet-first, and have their souls collected into gems?
They count for the purposes of having seen combat, or having been put in danger generally. But again, this was not portrayed as a good thing, and I strongly doubt that anyone involved in that encounter earned XP for it.

Vinyadan

2018-01-14, 10:59 AM

OK, that makes sense. Yes, I don't think the comic will ever portray putting children in danger as a good thing. And Hilgya isn't acting well by doing it out prejudice towards Thor followers.

Emanick

2018-01-14, 11:52 AM

That's hilarious. Assuming the quote in your signature counts as permission (?) I'm sigging this. It matches my sense of humour disturbingly well.

Heh, feel free! Thank you. I’m flattered.

OK, that makes sense. Yes, I don't think the comic will ever portray putting children in danger as a good thing. And Hilgya isn't acting well by doing it out prejudice towards Thor followers.

I started responding to this by saying something along the lines of “well, she’s not doing this because she’s okay with endangering children; she’s doing this because she’s foolish enough to think that her son is safer with her than anywhere else, even during battle.” But then I realized that’s only partly true. She doesn’t HAVE to fight at all. She has implicitly decided that it is more important to punish her ex-lover than it is to protect her (well, their) son.

And I do think it likely that Hilgya will have cause to regret this decision.

Honest Tiefling

2018-01-14, 04:45 PM

Alright, so I'm wrong about the children being in danger thing. But other than the elves...It wasn't explicitly shown. Eric might have been expanded upon in the books, I haven't read them yet. I think the actual act of taking a child onto the battlefield and dying there due to supreme neglect is still way off the tone of the comic.

As for the Thor followers, most of them got Vampified. That's not really an indication they'd be any good at keeping the kid safe. Chances are that once the group has defeated Durkula they'll come back and find that the Thorites have found a random encounter and got killed to that instead.

Fyraltari

2018-01-14, 04:54 PM

A scare (as in a blow that lands juuuuuuuuust left of Kudzu's head) however is not out of the question.

As for the Thor followers, most of them got Vampified. That's not really an indication they'd be any good at keeping the kid safe. Chances are that once the group has defeated Durkula they'll come back and find that the Thorites have found a random encounter and got killed to that instead.

Three priests, a handful of guards and what looks like passerbies/parishioners hardly makes up "most of them". Most of the temple's clergy is sleeping in its own bed at the moment.

I really doubt Roggo, Tinna and Blackore will die off-screen though :
1) the temple has been demonstrated to be completely vampire-proof so I really don't see who would kill them and why and
2) what would even be the point?

Kantaki

2018-01-14, 05:42 PM

Alright, so I'm wrong about the children being in danger thing. But other than the elves...It wasn't explicitly shown.

:cough:familicide:cough

Kish

2018-01-14, 06:52 PM

Emanick

2018-01-14, 11:40 PM

I think people are conflating the concept that murdering babies, including black dragon babies, is a horrifying atrocity, with the concept that murdering babies should not be depicted, or will not be depicted by the author who considers it an atrocity.

Rich said the former. He didn't say the latter.

That is absolutely true. However, I still think Rich has an aversion to depicting events he considers particularly abhorrent. He’ll do it when it’s absolutely vital for the story, as in the case of Familicide, but he has said, IIRC, that he’ll never depict any sort of rape or similar act (although that one “cold feet” flashback with Tarquin torturing a woman into marrying him was borderline, IMO). For that reason, I doubt he’ll show Kudzu being harmed.

At the risk of stating the obvious, there’s something about the death of human(ish) children that lots of people find more viscerally disturbing than mass murder, enough so that it seems more comparable to sexual violence than dragon genocide. (Note that I’m not saying that “dragon genocide” is somehow okay or any more excusable than “regular” genocide because dragons aren’t humans - merely that, because we obviously do not have a real-world frame of reference for thousands of sentient dragons being killed, seeing it depicted is less likely to disturb us. It’s deplorable, but also totally alien to our personal experiences, which means it’s much less disturbing than, say, a scene of sexual violence.)

Edit: to be clear, I’m quoting Kish because I’m responding to their ideas, not because I disagree with anything they said, really.

eilandesq

2018-01-15, 01:27 AM

The most elegant solution might have been one that the party caster level is high enough for, but which would burn precious resources and spell slots that they just can't spare right now:

Temporal Stasis
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. You place the subject into a state of suspended animation. For the creature, time ceases to flow and its condition becomes fixed. The creature does not grow older. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it. This state persists until the magic is removed (such as by a successful dispel magic spell or a freedom spell).

Material Component
A powder composed of diamond, emerald, ruby, and sapphire dust with a total value of at least 5,000 gp.

Assuming V. had this spell, and the resources and slot space to get it cast, V. could cast it on Kudzu and Hilgya could hide Kudzu in her backpack. Barring a targeted dispel magic spell (which would be next to impossible under those circumstances), or a likewise implausible targeted Freedom spell (since it has a one creature effect and the spell is on Kudzu, not Hilgya), Kudzu would be safe even if Hilgya was slain and her body destroyed. RAW, Kudzu might even survive the complete destruction of the world while under that spell. When the OotS had won, Hilgya could remove the TS spell with repeated greater dispels, since she is close to the same level as V. and she would know how to remove the spell.

martianmister

2018-01-15, 10:34 AM

What about this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html)? Adults or children?

zimmerwald1915

2018-01-15, 01:44 PM

Assuming V. had this spell, and the resources and slot space to get it cast, V. could cast it on Kudzu and Hilgya could hide Kudzu in her backpack.
All extremely dubious assumptions. Especially the notion that she'd have any 8th-level spell slots remaining after being energy drained 3 times.

eilandesq

2018-01-15, 05:58 PM

All extremely dubious assumptions. Especially the notion that she'd have any 8th-level spell slots remaining after being energy drained 3 times.

We know that Hilgya is at least capable of casting Restoration from #74--if she has it memorized now, all of V's negative levels will go poof like punctured soap bubbles, and (depending on interpretation of the rules) will leave empty spell slots where spells were lost from the negative levels. Unfortunately, it looks like the only 8th level spell V lost was the evocation specialist slot (which probably contained Sunburst--a devastating spell against vampires) since the other slots were used for Mind Blank spells that we witnessed being cast already. So even if V has that spell, V couldn't memorize it or use it right now, and doesn't have enough funds to obtain the material component even if V had the spell and the available slot.

Lacuna Caster

2018-01-17, 08:01 AM

That's how I'd rule it, barring someone else bringing up a better way.
Hang on, though. If the baby is a level 1 commoner, where are all it's skill points?

That is absolutely true. However, I still think Rich has an aversion to depicting events he considers particularly abhorrent. He’ll do it when it’s absolutely vital for the story, as in the case of Familicide, but he has said, IIRC, that he’ll never depict any sort of rape or similar act...
I am deeply unclear on how a rape scene in this strip would be more abhorrent than what the 'reformed' versions of V, Belkar and the rest of the Order did with, for example, a mentally dominated YukYuk. And that was framed as comedy.

hamishspence

2018-01-17, 08:22 AM

V hadn't reformed very much at that point - it was only after V found out about the Draketooth family, that V started to reform for real.

Peelee

2018-01-17, 11:06 AM

Hang on, though. If the baby is a level 1 commoner, where are all it's skill points?

In the baby-only skills Feed and Sleep. As the child ages, the skill points get naturally redistributed throughout the years into other skills until it reaches 18 for human, or the appropriate age for other its races, at which point its class either solidifies as Commoner or changes to a different NPC or PC class, depending on what said child specialized in, if anything. Replace all instances of "Commoner" for "Aristocrat" for a child of noble birth.

Tune in next time for another exciting episode of "Things Peelee Never Expected to Houserule!" Same bat-time, same bat-channel.

Reboot

2018-01-17, 11:36 AM

We know that Hilgya is at least capable of casting Restoration from #74--if she has it memorized now, all of V's negative levels will go poof like punctured soap bubbles, and (depending on interpretation of the rules) will leave empty spell slots where spells were lost from the negative levels. Unfortunately, it looks like the only 8th level spell V lost was the evocation specialist slot (which probably contained Sunburst--a devastating spell against vampires) since the other slots were used for Mind Blank spells that we witnessed being cast already. So even if V has that spell, V couldn't memorize it or use it right now, and doesn't have enough funds to obtain the material component even if V had the spell and the available slot.

Spells lost to negative levels are lost "as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels)". In other words, it doesn't come back just because the negative level's gone, any more than the (cast in the normal way) Mind Blanks will - the only difference is that, next day, you have that slot available again (whereas it's still unavailable if the negative level persists).

If they intended for the spell (or spell slot) to become available again, they wouldn't have included that "as if she had cast".

KorvinStarmast

2018-01-17, 12:55 PM

Wasn't Pink-Haired Elf Chick with the tiger {Veldrina} and the grumpy bodyguard {Wrecan, a paladin} a Favored Soul? FTFY. And yes, Veldrina is indeed a favoured soul.

Emanick

2018-01-17, 01:36 PM

FTFY. And yes, Veldrina is indeed a favoured soul.

Wait, when was it stated that Wrecan was a paladin?

Kish

2018-01-17, 01:40 PM

Nowhere. Greg addressed him as "crusader," which might--or might not--mean the Tome of Battle class; if it doesn't his class is never stated anywhere.

D.One

2018-01-17, 01:47 PM

Wait, when was it stated that Wrecan was a paladin?

No place. He seems to be from a "warrior-type" class, given his role as bodyguard. In fact, Durkon* calls him "crusader", and there's a base class called such in the Tome of Battle. Given what Wrecan says about liking to study obscure martial lore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html), I'd say it's likely he's from that class.

eilandesq

2018-01-17, 01:49 PM

Spells lost to negative levels are lost "as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels)". In other words, it doesn't come back just because the negative level's gone, any more than the (cast in the normal way) Mind Blanks will - the only difference is that, next day, you have that slot available again (whereas it's still unavailable if the negative level persists).

If they intended for the spell (or spell slot) to become available again, they wouldn't have included that "as if she had cast".

Good catch. So that's an extra rules barrier along with all of the practical ones. On the other hand, for another equal level party who needed to protect a helpless civilian of any kind, it would be an extremely effective plan if all of the elements are present (for an adult a reduce person or polymorph any object spell might be helpful to add to the mix).

goodpeople25

2018-01-17, 02:11 PM

In the baby-only skills Feed and Sleep. As the child ages, the skill points get naturally redistributed throughout the years into other skills until it reaches 18 for human, or the appropriate age for other races, at which point its class either solidifies as Commoner or changes to a different NPC or PC class, depending on what said child specialized in, if anything. Replace all instances of "Commoner" for "Arisocrat" for a child of noble birth.

Tune in next time for another exciting episode of "Things Peelee Never Expected to Houserule!" Same bat-time, same bat-channel.
Isn't the minimum age to adventure for humans 16? (Maximum age is specified as being for PCs but not the minimums) I'd imagine the Npc classes fall into the lower categories for starting age (so yeah classes like wizard would also take at least another year under the rules) and commoner might even kick in at the "start of adulthood" 15.

I mean feel free to go with what'd you'd like, I don't know if anyone really,follows those rules or anything. (And with D20srd I'm never willing to go 100% on it being perfect or it being core) Just pointing something out that I remembered and also not sure if it would change the name of "Things Peelee Never Expected to Houserule!"

Peelee

2018-01-17, 02:16 PM

Isn't the minimum age to adventure for humans 16? (Maximum age is specified as being for PCs but not the minimums) I'd imagine the Npc classes fall into the lower categories for starting age (so yeah classes like wizard would also take at least another year under the rules) and commoner might even kick in at the "start of adulthood" 15.

I mean feel free to go with what'd you'd like, I don't know if anyone really,follows those rules or anything. (And with D20srd I'm never willing to go 100% on it being perfect or it being core) Just pointing something out that I remembered and also not sure if it would change the name of "Things Peelee Never Expected to Houserule!"

I dunno, I was spitballing. I'm more than willing to change it to follow the RAW better. Thanks!

alcoferm

2018-01-19, 06:49 AM

wouldn't he need to be a level one cleric before becoming level two?

he would i think

Aquillion

2018-01-30, 11:09 AM

Reboot

2018-01-30, 02:00 PM

That rule still has a lot of loopholes, though. Based on the calculator, a lone level 1 character can beat an encounter with 18 CR 10 opponents and instantly leap to level 20.

I thought characters were capped at the XP of one level increase per encounter, regardless of how many levels the "raw" XP would give...

gooddragon1

2018-01-30, 02:20 PM

....gain XP in the coming fight? Are we soon to be looking at the youngest Level 2 Cleric in the history of the world? :)

Only if he's holding an Exp. Share item.

dps

2018-01-30, 03:04 PM

Isn't the minimum age to adventure for humans 16?

Yep, and it's higher for most other races, since they live longer, age more slowly, and reach adulthood later But that's for PC (and I would assume, NPCs with PC class levels). I'm not sure, but the age limits might not apply or be different for NPC classes such as Commoner or Aristocrat; in fact, if there's nothing in the Rules as Written that says that they are the same, I'd rule that the age limits don't apply for NPC levels.

Vinyadan

2018-01-30, 04:47 PM

If the kid has a commoner, I see potential for a Chicken Infestation / Negachicken / Exalted Flaming Chicken Thrower build.

Dr.Zero

2018-01-31, 06:22 AM

What about this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html)? Adults or children?

Funny. Now that you make me notice, it seems obvious, but I absolutely never realized they were children before today. I noticed the different proportions, of course, but didn't think twice about it.

factotum

2018-01-31, 06:56 AM

Funny. Now that you make me notice, it seems obvious, but I absolutely never realized they were children before today. I noticed the different proportions, of course, but didn't think twice about it.

I don't think they *are* necessarily children? The troll on the left is confusing the issue a bit, but the sitting down boss monster is supposed to be a blue dragon and those are much larger than humans.

hamishspence

2018-01-31, 07:05 AM

Younger dragons are often human-sized or even smaller. That dragon could be Large and still have the heads on its plate be appropriate for Small humanoids - children's heads.

In 3.5 D&D, a Large blue dragon could be as old as Young Adult.

Dr.Zero

2018-01-31, 08:22 AM

I don't know. Keeping the proportions, the troll must be a 3 mt tall, more or less. About the dragon, I confess that I immediately took for granted he was some sort of half dragon, like Enor.

Still I find interesting, about my own bias against depiction of dead children, that I immediately made the assumption about the race of the 'dragon', to respect the proportions, but I absolutely didn't think "oh, but then those must be children!". Really fascinating how one can be completely oblivious about some things.

(EDIT: I mean, independently by the fact that they are actual children, I never pondered not even the possibility they were.)