3.5; Countering Hard Counters

[ViperMagnum357]

In 3.5 we take a lot for granted-certain abilities and spells make other types of spells, abilities, class features and even entire class concepts worthless. IE, True Seeing and better magical detection abilities severely reduce the power of even the most potent illusions, and Pass Without Trace generally makes non-magical Tracking an auto-failure past level 6 or so. However, if you dig deep enough there are counters for some of these 'hard counter' abilities that increase their utility:

The Darkstalker feat adds a skill check to blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense and scent, increasing the advantage of concealment and allowing at least some chance of hiding from opponents that could normally pinpoint you location regardless of abilities.

The Bloodhound prc has the 'Track the Trackless' feature at 8th level, allowing the Track feat to be used even when Pass Without Trace and similar magic is used to foil mundane abilities.

The Red Robe variant of the prc Wizard of High Sorcery has the ability 'Magic of Mystery', forcing all divination effects to succeed at a caster level check to pierce any illusion, even True Seeing and the like; it also forces a caster level check to detect any magical aura from spells cast, including illusions-again allowing for some defense against magical detection effects that normally succeed automatically.

So, my question-how many more such effects are out there similar to these; that allow for builds and abilities that are usually dismissed because of otherwise easily obtained counters?

[Inevitability]

Mindsight, hard counter to nearly any stealth, is arguably blocked by a Hellbreaker's Telepathic Static.

[The Shadowmind]

Searing Spell metamagic causes half-fire damage to those with fire immunity, and ignores resistance.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Dread Witch allows your fear spells to affect creatures immune to fear.

[Telonius]

Undead and Constructs are immune to sneak attacks and critical hits. Truedeath and Demolition Crystals say, "No, they're not."

[The Shadowmind]

Music of the Gods lets a bardic music effect those immune to mind effecting effects. An [Epic] feat though.

[ViperMagnum357]

Searing Spell also has the Cold counterpoint, Piercing Cold.

And Sertrous' breath weapon can remove poison immunity, provided they are vulnerable to a generic Fortitude save.

Good list so far.

[Darrin]

Well, there's Thicket of Blades vs. Tumble, but it's hard to tell which exactly is countering the other.

[Anthrowhale]

See Piercing Immunities (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454486-Piercing-Immunities) for a list that includes several posted but more as well.

[ayvango]

I had banned both mindsight and dark stalker.

[skunk3]

To qualify for the mindsight feat does one need to have INNATE telepathic ability or would owning, say, a helm of telepathy allow one to qualify?

[Goaty14]

To qualify for the mindsight feat does one need to have INNATE telepathic ability or would owning, say, a helm of telepathy allow one to qualify?
Only when with telepathy. I.e taking off the helm means you no longer qualify, and therefore effectively lose the feats.
Lifesense works too if you're a construct or undead (or otherwise remove your con score).

Searing Spell metamagic causes half-fire damage to those with fire immunity, and ignores resistance.
Hellfire (One of those Fiendish Codex books) also pierces immunity.

[Thurbane]

Song of the Dead feat allows mind-affecting spells to affect intelligent undead.

[Jormengand]

The psionic power shatter mind blank is basically this.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The psionic power shatter mind blank is basically this.Along with the vastly superior in all possible ways, past, present, and future, in all possible realities dispel psionics.

[ShurikVch]

Along with the vastly superior in all possible ways, past, present, and future, in all possible realities dispel psionics.R U SURE?
Dispell Psionics: 1d20 + ML (max. +10) + augmentation (max. +10) = maximum 40; 10 pp
Shatter Mind Blank: 1d20 + ML (max. +20) = maximum 40; 9 pp

[MaxiDuRaritry]

R U SURE?
Dispell Psionics: 1d20 + ML (max. +10) + augmentation (max. +10) = maximum 40; 10 pp
Shatter Mind Blank: 1d20 + ML (max. +20) = maximum 40; 9 ppNot worth it, even remotely. That +1 pp "saved" doesn't even vaguely make up for the fact that the power is worse in every way. It's kind of like spending an extra penny to get a brand new Ferrari, as opposed to a junker VW Bug. You're not saving a penny buying the Bug because all of the downsides means the money you did spend was a waste.

[TIPOT]

I never realised how bad shatter mind blank is :') It even allows a will save. The only possible time it even might be better is when surrounded by multiple low wisdom enemies with mindblanks on? Even then it's only just. That is terrible.

[Fizban]

Searing Spell also has the Cold counterpoint, Piercing Cold.
Caveat: Piercing Cold doesn't work on things with the cold subtype, ie, most creatures with cold immunity. It does help against skeletal/vampiric/nightshade undead though, the main creatures that Lord of the Uttercold is useless against.

Sorcerers with the planar substitution level can convert half of any energy spell into "force" damage as long as its not their highest level spell, or you can use Consecrate or Corrupt Spell.

[noob]

Mindsight, hard counter to nearly any stealth, is arguably blocked by a Hellbreaker's Telepathic Static.

it is possible it might counter mind sight only if you are close enough to the person using telepathy since:

: Beginning at 1st level, you emit a field of psychic chatter out to a range of 20 feet, negating the telepathy ability of all creatures within range
so it works on creatures themselves and not directly on the telepathic ability.
So yes it works if you are close enough but if you are within telepathy range but too much far for using your power you are still spotted.
If you run toward the target it will know you came close so you would probably need to use earth mastery to get close(since teleportation is hampered by anticipate teleport)
But it is hilarious to hide right next to the target.

[Gruftzwerg]

Warlocks Eldritch Blast ability is untyped and thus bypasses all kind of DR & Energyresistance/-immunity. Add the vitriolic blast shape on it if you want to bypass SR.

[ShurikVch]

Not worth it, even remotely. That +1 pp "saved" doesn't even vaguely make up for the fact that the power is worse in every way. It's kind of like spending an extra penny to get a brand new Ferrari, as opposed to a junker VW Bug. You're not saving a penny buying the Bug because all of the downsides means the money you did spend was a waste.Then how about the Mind Blank (Su)? You will use Dispell Psionics on it too?
Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic.Shatter Mind Blank, on the other hand, use words "negate" and "shatter", thus - legit

Also, Mind Blank (Ex)... :smallwink:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Then how about the Mind Blank (Su)? You will use Dispell Psionics on it too?Shatter Mind Blank, on the other hand, use words "negate" and "shatter", thus - legit

Also, Mind Blank (Ex)... :smallwink:Color me impressed. You actually found a use for it.

[Velaryon]

Is there anything that can get through freedom of movement that doesn't involve simply dispelling it or using an AMF?

[ShurikVch]

Is there anything that can get through freedom of movement that doesn't involve simply dispelling it or using an AMF?Non-magical nets, webs, and so on

[ayvango]

Is there anything that can get through freedom of movement that doesn't involve simply dispelling it or using an AMF?
force cage. Or use stoneshape to build cage of stone

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How does freedom of movement work against ectoplasmic cocoon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ectoplasmicCocoon.htm)? It impedes movement, but it does so by enveloping them in a constricting cocoon of ectoplasm that just doesn't have room to move in it.

[ayvango]

How does freedom of movement work against ectoplasmic cocoon?
Same question for the rejuvenating cocoon.

[emeraldstreak]

Non-magical nets, webs, and so on

Nope, defeated too, as well as nonmagical grabs and nonmagical consequences of being underwater.

[Thurbane]

Nope, defeated too, as well as nonmagical grabs and nonmagical consequences of being underwater.

A net entangles creatures: FoM protects against magical effects that hamper movement, grapples and underwater movement.

I'm not seeing how a net would be affected?

[emeraldstreak]

A net entangles creatures: FoM protects against magical effects that hamper movement, grapples and underwater movement.

I'm not seeing how a net would be affected?

FoM protects against all effects that hamper movement, even magical ones.

[Thurbane]

FoM protects against all effects that hamper movement, even magical ones.

Not sure where you are getting that from?


This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.

[emeraldstreak]

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.

10 characters

[Thurbane]

That's a fairly selective reading: the spells goes on to give specific examples of what it protects against...

I guess I can see the argument for reading it that way.

[emeraldstreak]

That's a fairly selective reading: the spells goes on to give specific examples of what it protects against...

The leading sentence is what the spell does. The "even" clause following reinforces that it is so great it works against magic too, and mentions an incomplete list of example spells.

[Thurbane]

The leading sentence is what the spell does. The "even" clause following reinforces that it is so great it works against magic too, and mentions an incomplete list of example spells.

Just curious: would you allow a character that petrified, or dead, for instance, to move and attack normally for the duration of FoM?

[emeraldstreak]

Just curious: would you allow a character that petrified, or dead, for instance, to move and attack normally for the duration of FoM?

Nope, because such a character cannot even form the thought of moving. Nor could a stunned character, or a dominated character who was told to stay put; none of these can muster the will to move even if some of them retain the capacity to move.

I would allow a character who can still think, and wishes to move, to move even if impaired by an effect that otherwise fully paralyzes his body. So a theoretical petrify spell that retains the subjects' mental faculty is countered by FoM. Freedom of Movement protects the capacity to move, and if the will to move is present too, the character moves.

[tyckspoon]

Just curious: would you allow a character that petrified, or dead, for instance, to move and attack normally for the duration of FoM?

Personally, if we're going to get into the semantic weeds on this, no (or possibly 'yes, but'): because a character that is dead or has been transmuted to rock/sand/ice/glass is not a creature any more. They are an object, and Freedom of Movement works for creatures. The 'yes, but' would be of course you can move and attack normally. For an object. Which normally do not move or attack.

[Gruftzwerg]

how would FoM interact with Nightmare Terrain?

By strict RAW I guess FoM wins.
RAI on the other hand I would say NT wins, because your mind is influences to move slower and your movement isn't physically impeded.

[Crake]

how would FoM interact with Nightmare Terrain?

By strict RAW I guess FoM wins.
RAI on the other hand I would say NT wins, because your mind is influences to move slower and your movement isn't physically impeded.

The FAQ would agree with you, because according to the FAQ, freedom of movement doesn't protect you against Hold Person for the exact same reasons, your mind is telling you not to move, it's not a physical impediment.

Personally I disagree though, becasue freedom of movement in no way limits it's capabilities to physical impediments to your ability to move. It can likewise just as well protect you against mind affecting effects that impede your movement as well. In fact, if you're aware that freedom of movement is on you, the very fact that nightmare terrain is impeding your movement would be cause to automatically disbelieve the illusion, because you know it's not possible, thus it must be fake.

[Max Caysey]

Well, there's Thicket of Blades vs. Tumble, but it's hard to tell which exactly is countering the other.

Thickets also works against Spring Attack!

[ShurikVch]

The leading sentence is what the spell does.And the following sentences are explaining how it does what it does

The "even" clause following reinforces that it is so great it works against magic too, and mentions an incomplete list of example spells.Please, look to the Freedom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedom.htm) spell
By your overly permissive reading, 4th-level spell will do more than 9th-level spell... :smalleek:

[noob]

And the following sentences are explaining how it does what it does
Please, look to the Freedom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedom.htm) spell
By your overly permissive reading, 4th-level spell will do more than 9th-level spell... :smalleek:

Except there is a big difference: targeting.
With freedom you can target stuff in a maze or that have been imprisoned while you can not cast freedom of movement on those people.
freedom is level 9 because it counters a high level plot spell after it have been cast: Imprisonment.
While you need to cast freedom of movement before your opponent use Imprisonment.
In fact freedom of movement would make you die when someone cast Imprisonment on you: you still get brought to the center of the earth but you are not in a suspended animation state and so you take huge damage from the earth pressure.

[ShurikVch]

Except there is a big difference: targeting.
With freedom you can target stuff in a maze or that have been imprisoned while you can not cast freedom of movement on those people.
freedom is level 9 because it counters a high level plot spell after it have been cast: Imprisonment.
While you need to cast freedom of movement before your opponent use Imprisonment.
In fact freedom of movement would make you die when someone cast Imprisonment on you: you still get brought to the center of the earth but you are not in a suspended animation state and so you take huge damage from the earth pressure.Doesn't your own example countering the super-permissive reading of FoM? If you can move just fine, then doesn't it mean you're also don't suffering from the pressure?
Or you can move freely under water, but not under earth?
Then how about the mud (which is both water and earth)?

IMHO, reading of FoM as in post #33 is a typical No Limit Fallacy, and undermined by it's own RAW: sure, if FoM was intended to allow movement "any time, all the time, no matter what" it's text will be a bit shorter?
Why point the example spells, if they could just say "by magic"?

Just one really obvious example why such reading is incorrect: character completely encircled by the Wall of Stone, obviously, wouldn't be able to move, but, by your reading - he will! :smallbiggrin:

[noob]

Doesn't your own example countering the super-permissive reading of FoM? If you can move just fine, then doesn't it mean you're also don't suffering from the pressure?
Or you can move freely under water, but not under earth?
Then how about the mud (which is both water and earth)?

IMHO, reading of FoM as in post #33 is a typical No Limit Fallacy, and undermined by it's own RAW: sure, if FoM was intended to allow movement "any time, all the time, no matter what" it's text will be a bit shorter?
Why point the example spells, if they could just say "by magic"?

Just one really obvious example why such reading is incorrect: character completely encircled by the Wall of Stone, obviously, wouldn't be able to move, but, by your reading - he will! :smallbiggrin:
Except that freedom of movement allows to move.
Being crushed by the pressure is not the same thing as being unable to move: the earth pressure is moving you(toward your center) and being moved is not the same thing as being prevented from moving so you would still be able to move normally but also your body would be moved into being crushed(in addition to your normal movement).
Freedom of movement is never said to protect against water pressure either so if you go at the bottom of the ocean you would still have horrible problems with freedom of movement: water pressure is moving your body toward its interior.
Anyway you also have the heat at the center of the earth so you still die.
If someone did cast a spell that did push you backwards while you move it would not make you unable to move normally it would only make so that you would move normally and be pushed back while you are moving.
Moving normally is only relatively to the following:
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
So it works against magic that impede movement.
Suspended animation surely is magic that impede movement.
It also works against grappling.
Making a wall of stone around you is not impeding your movement(unless you are making the wall intersect with the body) then when the wall is here it is no longer magical.

[Jormengand]

FoM is badly worded, news at 11. I also love how the rules text is explicit that it protects against paralysis, hold person is explicit that the target is paralysed, and the FAQ says it doesn't protect against hold person. That said, RAW it lets you walk through walls of force, and I don't even know how it's meant to work.

Then again, in general, a creature is not impeded in any way while it has more than zero hit points (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20380062&postcount=282), so even Freedom of Movement isn't as good as simply having hit points. :smalltongue:

[Jowgen]

Cloak of Khyber (CoS) hard-counters true seeing in regards to disguises and shapechange.

[ViperMagnum357]

Cloak of Khyber (CoS) hard-counters true seeing in regards to disguises and shapechange.

Pathfinder, unfortunately. However, the Insidious Magic feat forces a caster level check on divination effects, sort of a weaker version of the Magic of Mystery ability of the Wizard of High Sorcery prc.

The 10th Level Gnome Illusionist substitution level applies a caster level check to divining illusions, as well.

[Hecuba]

The Deep Cover ability for Spymaster (but not similar ability of the same name for Z Spy) will counter true seeing with respect to anything it would reveal that would allow seeing through the cover identity/ disguise.

[Thurbane]

Dust of Disappearance counters True Seeing.

[Crake]

Pathfinder, unfortunately. However, the Insidious Magic feat forces a caster level check on divination effects, sort of a weaker version of the Magic of Mystery ability of the Wizard of High Sorcery prc.

The 10th Level Gnome Illusionist substitution level applies a caster level check to divining illusions, as well.

Pathfinder? The thread is pretty clearly 3.5, unless you mean Cloak of Khyber? But even that's not pathfinder, it's eberron.

[Thurbane]

Pathfinder? The thread is pretty clearly 3.5, unless you mean Cloak of Khyber? But even that's not pathfinder, it's eberron.

Indeed: the spell appears in City of Stormreach (p.59).

[gooddragon1]

Color me impressed. You actually found a use for it.

Not quite so sure about that

"This power can negate a psionic mind blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindBlankPsionic.htm) or a personal mind blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindBlankPersonal.htm) affecting the target." An (su) mind blank is neither of those things unless it says that it is.

[ShurikVch]

Actually, the hardest counter to illusions and shapechengers isn't the True Seeing, but the Greater Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSightGreater.htm): you're able to literally see the magic, and automatically discerning the seen spell/effect...


Not quite so sure about thatPsionics-Magic Transparency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y) :smallwink:

[Inevitability]

A high enough Bluff check can counter Detect Thoughts nonmagically.

[Jormengand]

A high enough Bluff check can counter Detect Thoughts nonmagically.

As can a high enough INT score.

[Inevitability]

As can a high enough INT score.

That one's also dependent on the caster's intelligence, though. Less of a hard counter, more of a 'probably sufficient' counter.

[ViperMagnum357]

Pathfinder? The thread is pretty clearly 3.5, unless you mean Cloak of Khyber? But even that's not pathfinder, it's eberron.

Well I'll be, I thought that was pathfinder only. That'll teach me for skimming sourcebooks.

As for countering detection-the Insidious Magic feat, and the class feature 'Magic of Mystery' from the Wizard of High Sorcery prc both force a Caster Level check on Detection spells and effects for your magic-and Nystul's Magic Aura will block detection of your magic items. Together, that should shut down detection for anyone without a lucky roll or an immense caster level.

[ShurikVch]

Well I'll be, I thought that was pathfinder only. That'll teach me for skimming sourcebooks.

As for countering detection-the Insidious Magic feat, and the class feature 'Magic of Mystery' from the Wizard of High Sorcery prc both force a Caster Level check on Detection spells and effects for your magic-and Nystul's Magic Aura will block detection of your magic items. Together, that should shut down detection for anyone without a lucky roll or an immense caster level.Well, arguably, neither Insidious Magic nor Magic of Mystery would affect Arcane Sight, because it just improves the sight by allowing to see magic. (Otherwise, how it's different from, say, Darkvision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm) spell?)
And Nystul's Magic Aura is explicitly useless vs. Arcane Sight: it may hide magic aura of object it was cast on, but not it's own magic aura

[ViperMagnum357]

Well, arguably, neither Insidious Magic nor Magic of Mystery would affect Arcane Sight, because it just improves the sight by allowing to see magic. (Otherwise, how it's different from, say, Darkvision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm) spell?)
And Nystul's Magic Aura is explicitly useless vs. Arcane Sight: it may hide magic aura of object it was cast on, but not it's own magic aura

Magic of Mystery "A Red Robe who knows this secret casts spells that are harder to detect and identify. When another spellcaster employs a divination spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, such as a detect magic spell, that may detect the magic aura of one of the Red Robe's spells, the other caster must make a level check (DC 11+ the Red Robe's caster level) to successfully detect the spell. Similarly, a spellcaster attempting to use a divination such as see invisibility to reveal the effects of one of the Red Robe's spells must make a level check to reveal the spell's effects. Any given caster can check only once for each divination spell used, no matter how many of the Red Robe's spell effects may be operating in an area. In addition when another spellcaster attempts to identify the spell a Red Robe is casting (for instance , counterspell it), the DC of the required Spellcraft check is increased by +1 for every 2 class levels the Red Robe has attained."

Arcane Sight " This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.

You know the location and power of all magical auras within your sight. An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning level or an item’s caster level, as noted in the description of the detect magic spell. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + one-half caster level for a nonspell effect.) "

Greater Arcane Sight " This spell functions like arcane sight, except that you automatically know which spells or magical effects are active upon any individual or object you see.

Greater arcane sight doesn’t let you identify magic items. "

:smallconfused: Seems pretty cut and dried to me-a caster level check is required to register any of your spells as magic, including Nystul's or Non-detection, which block detection of items.

[Crake]

Actually, the hardest counter to illusions and shapechengers isn't the True Seeing, but the Greater Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSightGreater.htm): you're able to literally see the magic, and automatically discerning the seen spell/effect...

Psionics-Magic Transparency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y) :smallwink:

Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, and Greater Arcane Sight are useless against supernatural abilities, which is the source of most shapechangers' ability to change shape, since they only detect magic items and spells in effect.

[ShurikVch]

Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, and Greater Arcane Sight are useless against supernatural abilities, which is the source of most shapechangers' ability to change shape, since they only detect magic items and spells in effect.[Citation needed]
On the other hand, we have this:
Can you use detect magic to detect supernatural effects?
For example, can it detect a wildshaped druid?

Supernatural abilities are magical, and thus their effects
would produce magical auras. Although the detect magic spell
doesn’t have a line entry for supernatural effect, you can use
the same line as “Magic item (caster level)”—a supernatural
effect’s caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice unless
noted otherwise (Monster Manual, page 315).

[Gemini476]

The hardest counter to illusions and shapechanging is probably AMFs of various stripes, although that's obviously got a whole host of downsides. Still, though, strap some Antimagic Shackles to your resident thaumaphobic hireling and anything they walk within five feet of will find itself suddenly visible.
This will not get (Ex) shapeshifters and nonmagical illusions, of course, but those are tricky in general and I'm unsure how common the former is. Regular fake walls, mundane disguises and assorted smoke & mirrors will counter this counter.

Various divination-preventing spells like Mind Blank and the like are somewhat countered by Metafaculty, although it can't counter epic abilities.



On the subject of Shatter Mind Blank vs. Dispel Psionics: if you're facing multiple opponents with Mind Blank active, SMB is somewhat better for that specific use. It's got a larger AOE and better AOE dispel effect. However, against a single target Dispel Psionics has a massive range advantage and a targeted dispel is only slightly more expensive.
And Dispel Psionics has a whole lot more uses than SMB, of course. I imagine that SMB is probably mostly just attractive if you're a Telepath or other extremely [Mind-Affecting]-heavy manifester, but it's a very niche choice. I suppose that it's also a surprising enough choice that you'd get around those who try to specifically counter your Dispel Psionics?

[Gruftzwerg]

warlock epic feats (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a)

There are a few who can be viewed as hard counters:
(note that feat description is reduced to the important part. see link for full info)

Paragon Visionary [Epic]
Benefit:
- You can see through illusions, magical darkness, shapechangers, and other effects (as true seeing). This is a supernatural ability.

- You are automatically aware of all spells or magical effects you see. Simply by looking at a creature, you can determine if it is a divine or arcane caster, whether it has any spell-like abilities, and the highest spell or spell-like abilities it knows. This is a supernatural ability.

- When you use the voidsense invocation, you gain blindsight 60 feet.

Shadowmaster [Epic]
Benefit: You are immune to all spells with the shadow subtype and to effects that involve the use of shadows (such as the breath weapon of a shadow dragon). This is an extraordinary ability.

Souleater Incarnate [Epic]
Benefit:
- When using this feat, you consume the soul of any creature that dies within 30 feet of you. For 10 minutes following the death, you gain +10 temporary hit points and a +1 bonus on attack rolls and saving throws. Bonuses from multiple deaths stack. At the end of the 10 minutes, the soul is permanently consumed. The creature that was consumed can be raised only via a miracle, true resurrection, or wish.
- You are immune to the soulless aura and consume soul abilities of soul eaters. This is an extraordinary ability.