Looking for an optimized level 10 build (Yep, one of those threads!)

[Zedicius]

Hey guys, DM is planning on doing a one shot and we're allowed to create overpowered characters. (He probably wants to see how things go, in preparation for a new campaign)

I've asked around the party and so far I've already heard Hulking Hurler and Bear Warrior cheese. I was wondering if anyone else had any interesting level 10 builds I could give a shot. Go wild.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hey guys, DM is planning on doing a one shot and we're allowed to create overpowered characters. (He probably wants to see how things go, in preparation for a new campaign)

I've asked around the party and so far I've already heard Hulking Hurler and Bear Warrior cheese. I was wondering if anyone else had any interesting level 10 builds I could give a shot. Go wild.Do you know what the scenario is? Because if you don't, I'd suggest druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) 10 (or druid/planar shepherd), if only because druids are capable of holding their own regardless of circumstances. The same goes for a shaper psion 5 (using the Primary Contact feat to qualify a level early) / constructor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) 5, with an eye toward utility powers usable in combat. Linked Power helps a LOT with that, allowing you to squeeze out long-manifesting times in just a single round.

[Zedicius]

Do you know what the scenario is?

No clue! Honestly I've played too many druids in my day to go for another one. The Psion idea seems interesting though. I haven't had the opportunity to play with psionics yet, no DM ever wanted to include it. I'll take a look at that!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Also: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?426491-Why-is-there-no-Constructor-Handbook
and
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280899-3-5-Constructor-PrC-worth-it-or-not

[ExLibrisMortis]

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 5? Artificer 10? Druid 10? Cleric 10?

If you say "go wild", well, get some spellcasting services for a soul crystal of fusion and astral seed, get a friendly primordial ogre mage titan, metamorphosis into a giant, fusion, astral seed, death, regrowth, rinse, repeat, get all the stuff. And that's a low-power application of this trick, which you really shouldn't be using at any normal table.

I mean, with two big brutes in the party, spellcasting is the obvious go-to, but cheese can go pretty far. So yeah, what are you looking for?


Edit: I second Constructor, it's a great class. You'd need, hmm, Favoured, Primary Contact, Boost Construct, Linked Power (plus Psionic Meditation, maybe Psicrystal Containment, if possible), and Metapower, I think? That's quite doable, all in all. Throw in a torc of power preservation (either kind) and you should get 6th-level astral constructs.

7th-level astral constructs, with Menu C abilities, require augmentation by 12, which is trickier to get at ML 9. Overchannel gets you +2 ML, but that deals 3d8 damage. Talented mitigates the damage, but requires you to expend your focus, and that might clash with Linked Power and Extended Construction. I think just picking up Overchannel might be best, pre-buffing with vigour takes care of the damage.

That'd get you a routine of: Overchanneled @ ML 11 synchronicity Linked astral construct (augmented to 13) with use of the torc, resulting in an overall cost of 1 + 13 - 2 - 1 = 11.

Human shaper (psion) 5/constructor 5. Favored1, Primary Contacthuman, Linked Powerpsion 1 Boost Construct3, Overchannelpsion 5, Psionic Meditation6, Metapower9. Would need flaws for Psicrystal Affinity + Psicrystal Containment, but it's worth it.

(sorry about all the edits)

[Zedicius]

If you say "go wild", well, get some spellcasting services for a soul crystal of fusion and astral seed, get a friendly primordial ogre mage titan, metamorphosis into a giant, fusion, astral seed, death, regrowth, rinse, repeat, get all the stuff. And that's a low-power application of this trick, which you really shouldn't be using at any normal table.

Yeah, I don't think the DM is experienced or patient enough to deal with this level of cheese.


I mean, with two big brutes in the party, spellcasting is the obvious go-to, but cheese can go pretty far. So yeah, what are you looking for?

That's what I was thinking. I could go for a blaster mage and deal tons of damage, though I think I'd get bored of that pretty quickly. Something that abuses leadership feats might be fun, though. Shaper with constructs looks interesting as well. I'm currently looking at the dread necromancer.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Remember that, as a psion, even if you take levels in constructor, you still have all of your other powers to fall back on, with all of the tactics they imply. Buffs, debuffs, direct damage, and BFC. Make clever use of Linked Power and psionic minor creation, psionic grease, entangling ectoplasm, wall of ectoplasm, wall of energy/energy conversion (once you're higher level), time hop, metapsionicked touchsight, and so on. Heck, even just the 1st level powers list alone contains some serious gems.

You'd be amazed at the mileage you can get out of a shaper, if you're good at thinking outside the box.

Also, warforged synergizes ridiculously well with shaper.

[Zedicius]

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 5? Artificer 10? Druid 10? Cleric 10?

If you say "go wild", well, get some spellcasting services for a soul crystal of fusion and astral seed, get a friendly primordial ogre mage titan, metamorphosis into a giant, fusion, astral seed, death, regrowth, rinse, repeat, get all the stuff. And that's a low-power application of this trick, which you really shouldn't be using at any normal table.

I mean, with two big brutes in the party, spellcasting is the obvious go-to, but cheese can go pretty far. So yeah, what are you looking for?


Edit: I second Constructor, it's a great class. You'd need, hmm, Favoured, Primary Contact, Boost Construct, Linked Power (plus Psionic Meditation, maybe Psicrystal Containment, if possible), and Metapower, I think? That's quite doable, all in all. Throw in a torc of power preservation (either kind) and you should get 6th-level astral constructs.

7th-level astral constructs, with Menu C abilities, require augmentation by 12, which is trickier to get at ML 9. Overchannel gets you +2 ML, but that deals 3d8 damage. Talented mitigates the damage, but requires you to expend your focus, and that might clash with Linked Power and Extended Construction. I think just picking up Overchannel might be best, pre-buffing with vigour takes care of the damage.

That'd get you a routine of: Overchanneled @ ML 11 synchronicity Linked astral construct (augmented to 13) with use of the torc, resulting in an overall cost of 1 + 13 - 2 - 1 = 11.

Human shaper (psion) 5/constructor 5. Favored1, Primary Contacthuman, Linked Powerpsion 1 Boost Construct3, Overchannelpsion 5, Psionic Meditation6, Metapower9. Would need flaws for Psicrystal Affinity + Psicrystal Containment, but it's worth it.

(sorry about all the edits)

Why Favored and Primary Contact if I may ask?

[Darrin]

Check the Famous Optimized Character Builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258580-Famous-optimized-character-builds) thread. There are a few that can break the game within ECL 10. Bubs the Commoner, for example, starts to pwn things around ECL 4.

d2 Crusader is unfortunately ECL 12ish, but you could probably get it down to ECL 10 with Bloodline levels. Cleric 1/Warblade 1/Major Bloodline 3/Crusader 4 can pick up Martial Stance:Aura of Chaos at level 9.

A Chicken Infested Commoner/Words of Creation Bardic Badass could be interesting. Throw 8d6 flaming chickens at your enemies!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Why Favored and Primary Contact if I may ask?Feats in Cityscape. Favored is a prereq to Primary Contact, which allows you to boost one skill's max skill rank by +1. So at 5th level, instead of having a max rank of 8, it becomes 9, allowing you to qualify for constructor one level early. Then after you take that level, use psychic reformation to swap those feats out for something more useful. The extra skill rank you got from your level in constructor keeps you qualifying for the class, so you don't even lose access to it once you swap the feats out. ie, it's self-qualifying.

[Anthrowhale]

Gheden (Buyoff @L3 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm)) Human Djinni Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#genieDjinni) Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) of Mystra 3(Knowledge, Magic, Rune) Domain Spontaneity[Magic]/Church Inquisitor 2/Dweomerkeeper 4/Spelldancer 1

with feats:
Gheden: Endurance
Gheden: Die-hard
Gheden: Toughness
Flaw: Troll-blooded
Flaw: Versatile Spellcaster
Human: Combat Casting
1. Extend Spell
Rune: Scribe Scroll
3. Initiate of Mystra
Armor of mobility: Mobility
6. Arcane Mastery
Bloodline 8: Dodge
9. Persistent Spell

Substitute Domain[Spell] provides qualification for Dweomerkeeper.

Domain Spontaneity[Magic] can be used with Versatile Spellcaster to cast AMF at level 10.

Arcane Mastery + Initiate of Mystra allows you to reliably cast spells inside of an AMF.

You are immune to all damage except Fire & Acid . You are immune to all magic. You have access to a full Tier 1 spell list. You cast spells that last two days via persist + extend using Spelldancer. You can cast standard action spells without components (i.e. XP, GP) via Dweomerkeeper 4.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Gheden (Buyoff @L3 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm)) Human Djinni Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#genieDjinni) Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) of Mystra 3(Knowledge, Magic, Rune) Domain Spontaneity[Magic]/Church Inquisitor 2/Dweomerkeeper 4/Spelldancer 1

with feats:
Gheden: Endurance
Gheden: Die-hard
Gheden: Toughness
Flaw: Troll-blooded
Flaw: Versatile Spellcaster
Human: Combat Casting
1. Extend Spell
Rune: Scribe Scroll
3. Initiate of Mystra
Armor of mobility: Mobility
6. Arcane Mastery
Bloodline 8: Dodge
9. Persistent Spell

Substitute Domain[Spell] provides qualification for Dweomerkeeper.

Domain Spontaneity[Magic] can be used with Versatile Spellcaster to cast AMF at level 10.

Arcane Mastery + Initiate of Mystra allows you to reliably cast spells inside of an AMF.

You are immune to all damage except Fire & Acid . You are immune to all magic. You have access to a full Tier 1 spell list. You cast spells that last two days via persist + extend using Spelldancer. You can cast standard action spells without components (i.e. XP, GP) via Dweomerkeeper 4.It's not quite as overwhelming, but you can get something reasonably comparable with psion or ardent or wilder + a few levels in the ghost savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) (just buy off the LA of each level as you go, for 3,000 XP each), and use malevolence to let others' bodies take the damage for you. If you "die," then you'll just be evicted, and you can find another body. Then take Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) to skip out on having any XP components for your powers, and you don't have to worry about power resistance, either. Taking Leadership will also get you access to a convert spell-to-power erudite, (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) which (at higher levels, granted) can give you any and all powers you want, as well as spells (as powers) from all arcane spell lists, which includes any divine list, as there are lots of ways to convert divine spells to arcane ones. Once your erudite has access to metamorphosis, tell him to turn into a bracelet or something else you can wear, and you can manifest from his powers known with no trouble. You just won't be able to manifest anything not on your class list, but that still gives a LOT of flexibility.

And it doesn't take up your entire progression, either, so you can do what you want beyond the above.

[Goaty14]

Check the Famous Optimized Character Builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258580-Famous-optimized-character-builds) thread. There are a few that can break the game within ECL 10. Bubs the Commoner, for example, starts to pwn things around ECL

Oddly enough, Fred the diplomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9714575&postcount=5) isn't on that list, who removes the need for combat at ECL 6. In fact, he could probably convince the DM you all should be level 20 :smallwink:.

Casting Class X/Tainted Scholar 1/Binder 1, a Symbiote (which I forget the name), and the evil subtype casts all spells with the [Evil] descriptor, and gets a no-level-change empower for free on all of those. You also gain +1 taint each time you cast a spell (and voluntarily fail the subsequent will save), and taint is also your casting stat. (Binder to bind naberius because the symbiote can bite you for 1d4 con damage if it doesn't like what you're doing, and such off 1 con dmg/day anyways).

Let's review your abilities...
-NAD (No-Ability-Dependent): All you really need is CON for HP, but you're a level 9 caster with NI spells, HP is no matter.
-Tons of Bonus Spells/High spell DCs: Your casting stat is taint, and you gain +1 taint whenever you cast a spell. I personally calculate bonus spells for a casting stat above 40 here (http://rpgtools.awardspace.com/bonusspell.htm).
-Free Empower: All spells cast are [Evil] and your symbiote empowers them for free. Especially useful because you don't have 9th level spells yet.

[Anthrowhale]

It's not quite as overwhelming, but you can get something reasonably comparable with psion or ardent or wilder + a few levels in the ghost savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) (just buy of the LA of each level as you go, for 3,000 XP each), and use malevolence to let others' bodies take the damage for you. If you "die," then you'll just be evicted, and you can find another body. Then take Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) to skip out on having any XP components for your powers, and you don't have to worry about power resistance, either. Taking Leadership will also get you access to a convert spell-to-power erudite, (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) which (at higher levels, granted) can give you any and all powers you want, as well as spells (as powers) from all arcane spell lists, which includes any divine list, as there are lots of ways to convert divine spells to arcane ones. Once your erudite has access to metamorphosis, tell him to turn into a bracelet or something else you can wear, and you can manifest from his powers known with no trouble. You just won't be able to manifest anything not on your class list, but that still gives a LOT of flexibility.

And it doesn't take up your entire progression, either, so you can do what you want beyond the above.


Supernatural Transformation[Psionics] seems superior since it's many uses per day rather than one use per day. Malevolence appears viable with 3 buyoffs at 3, 6, 9, and paying for a savage progression @4. The vulnerability to Turn Undead is always unpleasant.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The vulnerability to Turn Undead is always unpleasant.There are several ways to screw with Turn Undead. Spend resources to boost your turning resistance. Surround yourself with enough enslaved weaker undead to eat up the turning damage before it gets to you. Inhabit another's body to count as something other than undead. Take Human Blood or Human Heritage to not count as undead anymore. I'm sure there are plenty of others, too.

[Anthrowhale]

There are several ways to screw with Turn Undead. Spend resources to boost your turning resistance. Surround yourself with enough enslaved weaker undead to eat up the turning damage before it gets to you. Inhabit another's body to count as something other than undead. Take Human Blood or Human Heritage to not count as undead anymore. I'm sure there are plenty of others, too.

As an alternative, maybe Telthor? Normally you wouldn't consider it because a Telthor is pinned to a location, but a Gheden Telthor taking Troll-blooded is free to roam. As incorporeal non-undead, you keep your constitution score which is generally good.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As an alternative, maybe Telthor? Normally you wouldn't consider it because a Telthor is pinned to a location, but a Gheden Telthor taking Troll-blooded is free to roam. As incorporeal non-undead, you keep your constitution score which is generally good.Telthor(s) can't possess other creatures, though, which is a huge benefit in a lot of ways.

[emeraldstreak]

As an alternative, maybe Telthor? Normally you wouldn't consider it because a Telthor is pinned to a location, but a Gheden Telthor taking Troll-blooded is free to roam. As incorporeal non-undead, you keep your constitution score which is generally good.

It's a Persist build, being Warforged with Lesser Construct Essence can substitute Gheden.

[Anthrowhale]

It's a Persist build, being Warforged with Lesser Construct Essence can substitute Gheden.

It seems a tad fragile if you die when a spell is suppressed/dispelled.


Telthor(s) can't possess other creatures, though, which is a huge benefit in a lot of ways.

Malevolence is pretty impressive, and it is feasible at ECL10 (savage progression at 2,4,7,10 with buyoff @3,6,9). It's a good ECL 10 approach.

But... it still leaves you vulnerable to a relatively straightforward damage beatdown from an ubercharger and the cleric using greater turning. Of your listed turning defenses, I don't think human heritage works since ghost is not a race (i.e. capable of reproduction) and the others seem like half-measures prone to failure. It also means that AMF causes you to automatically lose all actions.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

How about a Changeling Warshaper/Jaunter?
Get a few hundred attacks per round and good mobility options.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

But... it still leaves you vulnerable to a relatively straightforward damage beatdown from an ubercharger and the cleric using greater turning.You're still a fully-fledged manifester, though, with everything that applies. AC boosters, miss chances, and various types of maneuverability are all in the cards for you. And if you're possessing someone else's body, you count as their type, do you not? I don't think turning would work at all.


Of your listed turning defenses, I don't think human heritage works since ghost is not a race (i.e. capable of reproduction)But if your base race was human-descended, adding a template doesn't (usually) change that. You were human, or half-elf, or half-orc, or silverbrow, or something, and then died. Doesn't mean you aren't still human-descended. You even have your former body's subtype to prove it.


and the others seem like half-measures prone to failure. It also means that AMF causes you to automatically lose all actions.Then take multiple steps to correct them. Tinfoil hat works reasonably well on an antimagic field, as do psionic contingency, Craft Contingency, and so on. It's not like you won't want those as a caster anyway. Plus, I think you might be safe if you're inhabiting another body? You should be shielded from it, maybe. You're not still incorporeal, after all.

[Anthrowhale]

You're still a fully-fledged manifester, though, with everything that applies. AC boosters, miss chances, and various types of maneuverability are all in the cards for you. And if you're possessing someone else's body, you count as their type, do you not? I don't think turning would work at all.
Turning wouldn't work when using Malevolence. Between a caster and a caster that is immune to attack, I'll take the second.


Then take multiple steps to correct them. Tinfoil hat works reasonably well on an antimagic field, as do psionic contingency, Craft Contingency, and so on. It's not like you won't want those as a caster anyway. Plus, I think you might be safe if you're inhabiting another body? You should be shielded from it, maybe. You're not still incorporeal, after all.
Malevolence is a (Su) ability, and hence would be suppressed in an AMF. The other things might work depending on circumstances and DM, but plausibly don't at ECL10.

[Zedicius]

That'd get you a routine of: Overchanneled @ ML 11 synchronicity Linked astral construct (augmented to 13) with use of the torc, resulting in an overall cost of 1 + 13 - 2 - 1 = 11.


Bah, sorry. Trying to put this build on paper, but have another question. Where does the first -2 come from, assuming the -1 is from the Torc?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Bah, sorry. Trying to put this build on paper, but have another question. Where does the first -2 come from, assuming the -1 is from the Torc?Metapower. I prefer using Metapower on Linked Power/synchronicity instead of astral construct; synchronicity is useful all over the place, and I like to pair it up with Linked Power whenever I use it, which is then used with astral construct. Like, a lot.

[Zedicius]

Metapower. I prefer using Metapower on Linked Power/synchronicity instead of astral construct; synchronicity is useful all over the place, and I like to pair it up with Linked Power whenever I use it, which is then used with astral construct. Like, a lot.

I totally missed that line in the feat description. Thanks!