Simple yet functional mundane build?

[sorcererlover]

Gonna have a solo adventure with my DM.

Problem is we're both lazy. He's gonna run a premade adventure path, and I want to control only 1 PC.

The problem with solo adventures is that level 1 characters don't stand a chance, and if they miraculously survive they level really quickly, to the point the game is no longer a challenge.

So a solution my DM and I came up is to have 3 identical mundane PCs helping me out low levels and then soak up xp later levels so my PC doesn't level too fast.

I will be playing an optimized spellcaster of some kind (haven't decided which yet). Could be a clericzilla, could be a gish, could be a summoner, haven't decided yet.

So what is a good simple solid mundane build? I was thinking a greatsword fighter with weapon focus feats but I don't know how strong/weak they are. I don't want uberchargers because trivializing encounters is my spellcaster PC's job. I am also thinking about maybe starting these fighters out as melee combatants, then changing them to ranged combatants when my spellcaster PC starts dominating everything.

I'm think I'm gonna go with fighters because they have no special stuff like spellcasting or rage or other abilities, and all their bonus feats can be applied to passive feats instead of feats that grant special abilities.

So any suggestions on a solid tank/beatstick that stays relevant for levels 1-6 or 7, and no special attacks? Ability to switch between melee and range would be nice.

[Goaty14]

I don't get it. You want a (decent) melee beatstick build that's applied to 3 minions, except they cannot have class features.
...!? Most decent melee builds will invariably have class features to worry about. The simple answer is to use some literal monsters and just keep switching them out. So at level 1 you have 3 goliaths under your control, at level 2 you fire the goliaths and hire some (insert LA +2 race here) creatures and so on.

If you don't do that, I don't really have advice for this, except to say that weapon focus feats tend to be really bad.

[sorcererlover]

I don't get it. You want a (decent) melee beatstick build that's applied to 3 minions, except they cannot have class features.
...!? Most decent melee builds will invariably have class features to worry about. The simple answer is to use some literal monsters and just keep switching them out. So at level 1 you have 3 goliaths under your control, at level 2 you fire the goliaths and hire some (insert LA +2 race here) creatures and so on.

If you don't do that, I don't really have advice for this, except to say that weapon focus feats tend to be really bad.

Power Attack, charging, cleaving, rapid shot, grappling, stuff like that is fine. But not rage, shifting, or spellcasting of any kind. Basically if it has a daily limit it's too much work to keep track of for me since I already have a very complicated spellcaster to control.

Auras, or other passive stuff is fine too. I was under the impression there are simple mundane builds out there that are boring to play but is highly effective.

As it stand right now I'd probably roll 3 core-only fighters because that's as much as I know about mundanes.

[Elder_Basilisk]

Sounds like you need a couple things from the mundane: you need it to be effective but you need it to be simple and want to avoid any x/day or x/encounter abilities. I think you also want it to cover a variety of party needs. With that in mind, I'd suggest a multiclass fighter/rogue. Something like rogue 4/fighter X would be my suggestion. (Scout 4 might work even better).

You can build that to be have no per day abilities but the multiclass will also allow you the flexibility to deal with traps and be able to adopt a stealth approach if the situation warrants it. Having most of the party pack evasion will also be a significant defensive upgrade--much more so than having just one party member with evasion since it will largely neutralize the entire category of relfex half area attacks.

[Elder_Basilisk]

Is it 3.5 or Pathfinder?

[sorcererlover]

Is it 3.5 or Pathfinder?

3.5

Rogue multiclass sounds simple enough... i think ^_^

But you are definitely right on the money on what I am looking for. I will be having 3 of the same mundane so I only need 1 character sheet for them.

[KillingAScarab]

Have you and your DM considered generic classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm), yet? They're intended to be a campaign setting choice, so everyone in the party would play generics, but if you're looking for something without class features, these will give you that or the ability to swap feats for a specific class feature you want on a chassis which might not get it otherwise (e.g., trap sense gives that named class feature and trap finding on a warrior with 4 ranks in search).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Crusaders are simple enough, if you write down your maneuvers on cards and shuffle and draw them each round. They're also fantastic for surviving early levels due to healing during a fight without slowing your offensive abilities down. They can also absorb a TON of damage even without healing, if you pick your options reasonably well. Just pick the healing stance and healing maneuver, as well as DR via a feat, all of which is right there in Tome of Battle. That should get you through the early levels easily enough.

[Mara]

A PF Slayer. A PF Gunslinger. A PF unchained barbarian.

Regular build would work.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get some Whisper Gnome Fighters. Give them two flaws for two extra feats, as follows: Wild Cohort, Dodge, Titan Fighting, Mounted Combat. Give them large shields, one-handed weapons, probably light or medium armor depending on Dex, stat priority Str > Dex > Con > Wis > Cha > Int. Put max ranks in Ride and Handle Animal. If there are enemy spellcasters, one can ready an action to use their Silence spell-like ability if they cast a spell with a verbal component, target it on a point in space with the enemy spellcaster in range and the verbal component and thus the spell automatically fails. Their Wild Cohorts/mounts are Magebred Warbeast Riding Dogs with Trip. (ECS specifically says only Druids and Rangers are prohibited from recruiting Magebred animals as companions.)
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+15 (32 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex, +8 natural, +2 leather barding), touch 13, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+8
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip (+6)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Combative Mount, Excellent Learner, Thick-Skinned Breed
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Jump +16, Listen +7, Spot +7, Swim +7, Survival +2*, one more skill point that should be a cross-class Spellcraft rank in preparation for taking Mage Slayer.
Feats: Alertness, Track (B), Improved Natural Attack: Bite (B), Combat Reflexes
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary or pack (5-12)
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Combative Mount (Ex): A rider on a trained warbeast
mount gets a +2 circumstance bonus on all Ride checks. A
trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy
armor.

Excellent Learner: A magebred animal can learn a maximum
of eight tricks, and the DC for all Handle Animal
checks involving a magebred animal is reduced by 2. In
addition, the time required to train a magebred animal for
a purpose is reduced by 1 week (to a minimum of 1 week).

Trip (Ex): A riding dog that hits with a bite attack can attempt
to trip the opponent (+6 check modifier) as a free action
without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of
opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react
to trip the riding dog.

Skills: Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks.
*Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when
tracking by scent.

You can trade your Familiar for an animal companion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererWizard) and/or take Wild Cohort (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) yourself and get one or two of those as well, provided you're not a Ranger or a Druid. In any case, animals don't take a share of the XP so it's just additional meat shields.

[Elder_Basilisk]

One more thought about the mundanes. I would consider using a fighting style that gains from duplication.

The two examples that spring to mind are both highly compatible with the fighter rogue or fighter/scout concept.

1. Reach weapon plus combat reflexes. A single character with a reach weapon can control territory but a lot of bad guys can take a single AoO. On the other hand, three guys with reach weapons could well mean three opportunity attacks which is often enough to take a bad guy out completely. Combined with evasion to mitigate the most common counter to dense heavy infantry tactics (aoe damage) that can give a pretty big advantage.

2. Switch hitter. Using a bow until the enemy closes to melee range is a nice concept but for characters in a traditional party, it brings some serious downsides because Mr. Greatsword leap attack often doesn't want to pepper the enemy with arrows while forcing them to close distance and even if he is willing, the party will sometimes encounter foes who are just as effective at range which means they have to be the ones to close. It's hard to be dominant at range if only the one character plus the wizard have more skill with a bow than proficiency and a +1 Dex bonus. On the other hand, an party full of guys who are skilled with rapid shot will usually be able to outshoot the opposition which changes the tactical situation. And if they have evasion and are skilled in melee too, that opens up more tactical possibilities.

[Nifft]

Instead of 3 mundane NPCs, have you considered getting 3 random monster NPCs which change as you level up?

Like, you start at level 1 with 3 wolves.

At level 3, you get 3 lions.

At level 5, you get 3 manticores.

At level 7, you get 3 young copper dragons.

Etc.

[sorcererlover]

Get some Whisper Gnome Fighters. Give them two flaws for two extra feats, as follows: Wild Cohort, Dodge, Titan Fighting, Mounted Combat. Give them large shields, one-handed weapons, probably light or medium armor depending on Dex, stat priority Str > Dex > Con > Wis > Cha > Int. Put max ranks in Ride and Handle Animal. If there are enemy spellcasters, one can ready an action to use their Silence spell-like ability if they cast a spell with a verbal component, target it on a point in space with the enemy spellcaster in range and the verbal component and thus the spell automatically fails. Their Wild Cohorts/mounts are Magebred Warbeast Riding Dogs with Trip. (ECS specifically says only Druids and Rangers are prohibited from recruiting Magebred animals as companions.)
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+15 (32 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex, +8 natural, +2 leather barding), touch 13, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+8
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip (+6)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Combative Mount, Excellent Learner, Thick-Skinned Breed
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Jump +16, Listen +7, Spot +7, Swim +7, Survival +2*, one more skill point that should be a cross-class Spellcraft rank in preparation for taking Mage Slayer.
Feats: Alertness, Track (B), Improved Natural Attack: Bite (B), Combat Reflexes
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary or pack (5-12)
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Combative Mount (Ex): A rider on a trained warbeast
mount gets a +2 circumstance bonus on all Ride checks. A
trained warbeast is proficient with light, medium, and heavy
armor.

Excellent Learner: A magebred animal can learn a maximum
of eight tricks, and the DC for all Handle Animal
checks involving a magebred animal is reduced by 2. In
addition, the time required to train a magebred animal for
a purpose is reduced by 1 week (to a minimum of 1 week).

Trip (Ex): A riding dog that hits with a bite attack can attempt
to trip the opponent (+6 check modifier) as a free action
without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of
opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react
to trip the riding dog.

Skills: Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks.
*Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when
tracking by scent.

You can trade your Familiar for an animal companion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererWizard) and/or take Wild Cohort (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) yourself and get one or two of those as well, provided you're not a Ranger or a Druid. In any case, animals don't take a share of the XP so it's just additional meat shields.

This is very far from simple.


Instead of 3 mundane NPCs, have you considered getting 3 random monster NPCs which change as you level up?

Like, you start at level 1 with 3 wolves.

At level 3, you get 3 lions.

At level 5, you get 3 manticores.

At level 7, you get 3 young copper dragons.

Etc.

We're sticking to RAW, and those NPCs are LA:-. I think you forgot that we are lazy. 1 simple character sheet for 3 mundanes is easier than homebrewing a bunch of monster NPCs and figuring out whether they're balanced for the level or not, and switching them out every few levels with another set of monster NPCs we need to figure out whether or not they're balanced for the level or not.


Crusaders are simple enough, if you write down your maneuvers on cards and shuffle and draw them each round. They're also fantastic for surviving early levels due to healing during a fight without slowing your offensive abilities down. They can also absorb a TON of damage even without healing, if you pick your options reasonably well. Just pick the healing stance and healing maneuver, as well as DR via a feat, all of which is right there in Tome of Battle. That should get you through the early levels easily enough.

I'll look into crusaders.

[Vizzerdrix]

3 fighters with troll blooded. Simple, easy, and you can all sit around for a few minutes instead of having to juggle hp totals after each battle. Tack on a bit of tripping or charging and call it a day. Maybe give them an okay wis score and some shapesand so gear isnt a thing.

[Goaty14]

We're sticking to RAW, and those NPCs are LA:-. I think you forgot that we are lazy. 1 simple character sheet for 3 mundanes is easier than homebrewing a bunch of monster NPCs and figuring out whether they're balanced for the level or not, and switching them out every few levels with another set of monster NPCs we need to figure out whether or not they're balanced for the level or not.

Ok then.

1: Goliaths
2: Mineral Warrior Goliaths
3: Feral Mineral Warrior Goliaths
4: Brownie (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a)
5: Mineral Warrior Brownie...

His suggestion remains the same: Just take a LA: X race and progress them with templates or replace them with another race. Best Part: They don't have class levels, and therefore only really have stats.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is very far from simple.

To build, only slightly; to play, no.

If they're not in melee range, they move into melee range.
If they're in melee range, the dog and the gnome both attack.
If a dog hits, it trips.
If a dog gets hit, the rider uses Mounted Combat.
Each gnome uses Dodge against the biggest threat to them that's medium or larger.
Occasionally one will ready to use Silence to disrupt an enemy spellcaster.
If they're NPCs, the DM keeps track of all their hp and status effects.

[Elricaltovilla]

Why not play a druid and ask your lazy DM to let you have two extra animal companions? They're simple melee beatstick that are class features, so they don't really have class features of their own.

Get a wolf, a large cat and something with a big shell. You've got a tripper, melee dps and a "tank" all right there.

[Fizban]

We're sticking to RAW, and those NPCs are LA:-. I think you forgot that we are lazy. 1 simple character sheet for 3 mundanes is easier than homebrewing a bunch of monster NPCs and figuring out whether they're balanced for the level or not, and switching them out every few levels with another set of monster NPCs we need to figure out whether or not they're balanced for the level or not.
Uh, using a pre-made monster statblock isn't homebrewing and doesn't require any work. You just open the book and use it. And if you're "sticking to RAW" then you shouldn't be in control of anything that you don't have a feat or class feature for, so the entire idea is illegal anyway.


Anyway, you want simple, yeah the simplest build is going to be focus/spec/mastery fighter, with a garnish of rapid shot or cleave or whatever. The whole point of fighter is that you build it however simple or complicated you want. They've got enough feats you can put them through two weapon masteries if you want, so go ahead and pick it up for bows too. Weather its "effective" or not depends on your definition, but if you explicitly don't want uberchargers and their ilk, I think you'll find that weapon mastery fighter works just fine: flat always-on attack and damage bonuses which are plenty comparable to rage, no keeping track of any resource other than hit points and ammo, no need to track different combat modes unless you really want to, and so on. As long as they're all getting PC equivalent gear to keep their other numbers up, that's three blocks of hit points and attacks. You can cram in whatever extra char-op you want with barbarian dips or whatever, but if you want to remove complexity you'll never beat basic attacks with bonuses.

[Kayblis]

So you're asking for a fighter build, no uberchargers, no class features. You'll get a barely functional character, which is fine for lvs 1~6. Make 3 trippers, or 3 power attackers, or both as it only takes 3 feats. You won't find builds here that are "boring to play" yet very effective, save Uberchargers. Stay away from the Tome of Battle, it's a really fun book so you'll hate it. You could use the Warrior too, which is just a worse Fighter and is in the generic classes link someone cited.

As feats, Combat Expertise+Imp Trip+Power Attack should suffice for actions, and pick up Imp Initiative, Weapon Focus line and the save boosters as you level up. You'll have fun in you choose other options, so stay away from those. You'll have decent meatshields(a little more meaty if using actual shields) that could gang up on one or two smaller enemies while you do your thing.

[weckar]

Could build a knockback Goliath to keep the baddies away from you with force. Should synergize with your own build well enough.

[Firest Kathon]

My experience is only with PF adventure paths, but I find that as written an optimized spellcaster with one or two summons/animal companions/similar (to delay some hordes) can run them solo without too much trouble most of the time. I do not know which AP your GM wants to run, but maybe you don't need to worry about it.

Regarding the XP thing, the PF adventure paths have some leveling guidelines ("the PCs should have level X when starting chapter Y"), and in the campaigns I run and play in we simply do not care about XP at all and PCs just level at the appropriate chapters. If such a guideline does not exist just give out 1/4 XP and you will get the same result.

[RoboEmperor]

Regarding the XP thing, the PF adventure paths have some leveling guidelines ("the PCs should have level X when starting chapter Y"), and in the campaigns I run and play in we simply do not care about XP at all and PCs just level at the appropriate chapters. If such a guideline does not exist just give out 1/4 XP and you will get the same result.

This only works if no one uses xp as a resource, which means no crafting or powerful spells. You're playing pathfinder which has no xp costs so your system works for pathfinder but not for 3.5. Having said that it was a lot more easier for everyone when the DM just gave out levels after killing bosses in a game I was in, but ultimately it failed because any advanced tactics/fancy stuff d&d is known for requires xp components.