Regarding the spell Finger of Death

[Napsb]

so here is the spell for reference
"You send negative energy coursing through a creature that you can see within range, causing it searing pain. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 7d8+30 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a Zombie that is permanently under your Command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability."

keep in mind that this is a lvl7 spell unless you're lvl 20 thats expensive.
my question is this, can you use it on undead?
can you use it on undead that you have created using the Animate Dead spell?
if you can, do you have to wait until they are no longer under your control? or can you just have them stand there while you take them out one by one?

the plan is to go necromancer/wizard and after large fights just animate dead then Teleportation Circle them to a cage or something in our base then during off time kill them with finger of death and have a permanent army of dead to protect the base while out adventuring. also protect the clone room.

[Aett_Thorn]

You can target an undead with this, and cause damage, but they do NOT count as a humanoid for the second effect of the spell, if I recall correctly. So you couldn't just cast Animate Dead, and then Finger of Death one to make a permanent undead follower.

[Unoriginal]

so here is the spell for reference
"You send negative energy coursing through a creature that you can see within range, causing it searing pain. The target must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 7d8+30 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

A humanoid killed by this spell rises at the start of your next turn as a Zombie that is permanently under your Command, following your verbal orders to the best of its ability."

keep in mind that this is a lvl7 spell unless you're lvl 20 thats expensive.
my question is this, can you use it on undead?
can you use it on undead that you have created using the Animate Dead spell?
if you can, do you have to wait until they are no longer under your control? or can you just have them stand there while you take them out one by one?

the plan is to go necromancer/wizard and after large fights just animate dead then Teleportation Circle them to a cage or something in our base then during off time kill them with finger of death and have a permanent army of dead to protect the base while out adventuring. also protect the clone room.

You can use this spell to deal damage on an Undead, but if the Undead is immune to necrotic damages it won't do anything.

No, you can't use Finger of Death to get a permanently-controlled Undead by casting it on an Undead. As said in the spell's description, it only works on humanoids.

[RickAllison]

You can target them with the spell and it will inflict the damage, but the perma-zombie function of the spell is restricted to humanoid targets. If you want your permanent zombie army, you have to kill them fresh.

One idea might be to combine a Teleportation Circle with Mass Suggestion or similar. You Suggest that they teleport back to their families, slaughter those that make the save, and then have the Teleportation Circle actually take them to your evil necromancer lair. When you get back, then you kill them with the spell.

[krugaan]

You can target them with the spell and it will inflict the damage, but the perma-zombie function of the spell is restricted to humanoid targets. If you want your permanent zombie army, you have to kill them fresh.

One idea might be to combine a Teleportation Circle with Mass Suggestion or similar. You Suggest that they teleport back to their families, slaughter those that make the save, and then have the Teleportation Circle actually take them to your evil necromancer lair. When you get back, then you kill them with the spell.

Jesus, this thread turned dark real fast.

[Unoriginal]

Jesus, this thread turned dark real fast.

Given that the first post is about how to kill people to get eternal slaves, I'd say "fast" is an euphemism for "from the start".

[RickAllison]

Jesus, this thread turned dark real fast.

Hey, it is threads like these that inspire villains for other campaigns! Rather than having a generic necromancer digging up bodies in the dead of night, you have someone who kidnaps his specimens in broad daylight, but never seems to get found. Who thinks "necromancer" when the only evidence of wrongdoing is slaughtering and kidnapping?

[krugaan]

Given that the first post is about how to kill people to get eternal slaves, I'd say "fast" is an euphemism for "from the start".

Well, yeah, but i wasn't expecting some kind of charm / kidnapping plot to keep a steady supply of victims going. I could see a necromancer slowly preying on towns a person at a time, but charming them and keeping them like livestock is super extra evil.


Hey, it is threads like these that inspire villains for other campaigns! Rather than having a generic necromancer digging up bodies in the dead of night, you have someone who kidnaps his specimens in broad daylight, but never seems to get found. Who thinks "necromancer" when the only evidence of wrongdoing is slaughtering and kidnapping?

It would be interesting to see an evil necromancer who just slowly wipes out towns a person at a time to build a large zombie army, although, really, it seems like there would be easier ways to do it than finger of death. Some kind of magical item or something.

Anyway, the party strolls into town but finds it empty. No signs of struggle, etc etc. Could be like a murder mystery.

[Unoriginal]

You could have a villain similar to the Pied Piper of Hamelin, who empty whole villages with their mind-control magic to sell the people to necromancers.

[Chronos]

I think that the idea of Finger of Death is to serve as justification for a villain to have a nigh-infinite army of undead at his command. You're restricted to a relatively small army with Animate Dead, but with Finger, you can eventually build up as big an army as you'd like. Just drop in a line about how homeless folks seem to have been disappearing from the city for the past year, or something, and you've got a justification for hundreds of zombies.

[the_brazenburn]

This is a complete non-sequitur, but I've always loved the wording of "Finger of Death".

My mind automatically jumps to a necromancer flipping off his foes, then watching as they crumple to the ground dead.

[krugaan]

This is a complete non-sequitur, but I've always loved the wording of "Finger of Death".

My mind automatically jumps to a necromancer flipping off his foes, then watching as they crumple to the ground dead.

I keep waiting for the Pimp Hand of Death.


I think that the idea of Finger of Death is to serve as justification for a villain to have a nigh-infinite army of undead at his command. You're restricted to a relatively small army with Animate Dead, but with Finger, you can eventually build up as big an army as you'd like. Just drop in a line about how homeless folks seem to have been disappearing from the city for the past year, or something, and you've got a justification for hundreds of zombies.

That really, really sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds...

Actually, you could probably just pick a random villain from that show and fluff him in to a reasonably good bbeg.


You could have a villain similar to the Pied Piper of Hamelin, who empty whole villages with their mind-control magic to sell the people to necromancers.

A lovely enchanter who happens to also be twisted and in love with a sociopathic necromancer?

[Dalebert]

Based on the wording, it should really be called "Finger of Unconciousness". I made a thread by that name a month or two ago that's probably a bit buried now. Point is, it lacks wording that says "if this drops the target to zero, it dies". Thus it takes massive dmg (current hp + max hp) to turn a PC into a zombie or, depending on DM discretion, possibly dropping to zero from FoD and then failing three death saves.

It's sad. Seems like this nerfed it as a scary BBEG type villain spell since it will rarely kill PCs in a non-easily-reversible way. It still works for most NPCs since they (typically) die at 0. This is mostly good news for PCs but bad news for DMs trying to create a compelling narrative and challenge the players with real threats.

[Coidzor]

Considering that even one of the designers is now arguing that you have to use a 9th level spell to bring someone back to life after they get turned into an undead, it's more than likely a good thing that PCs require some finagling to turn into undead.

[Dalebert]

Well, smart players will cut something off when they reach tier 3 and have access to a Regenerate spell to grow the part back. Then put it away for safe-keeping in case their body gets swallowed or turned undead. Then you can at least cast Resurrection on that part which is a lot more available and cheaper than a True Res.

[Olfgar]

I think that the idea of Finger of Death is to serve as justification for a villain to have a nigh-infinite army of undead at his command. You're restricted to a relatively small army with Animate Dead, but with Finger, you can eventually build up as big an army as you'd like. Just drop in a line about how homeless folks seem to have been disappearing from the city for the past year, or something, and you've got a justification for hundreds of zombies.

The best reason for a Villain to have a nigh infinite army?

Because hes a villain, and Villains can do things the PCs cant, especially because they have usually been at this for a while before the PCs show up, so you can just say they have mastered this particular subject or found/were taught a more advanced technique. Just look at the spells in the PHB as the most commonly used and taught spells.

[Destructor]

the plan is to go necromancer/wizard and after large fights just animate dead then Teleportation Circle them to a cage or something in our base then during off time kill them with finger of death and have a permanent army of dead to protect the base while out adventuring. also protect the clone room.

Can't you just deal nonlethal damage?

[dejarnjc]

I think that the idea of Finger of Death is to serve as justification for a villain to have a nigh-infinite army of undead at his command. You're restricted to a relatively small army with Animate Dead, but with Finger, you can eventually build up as big an army as you'd like. Just drop in a line about how homeless folks seem to have been disappearing from the city for the past year, or something, and you've got a justification for hundreds of zombies.

"Infinite". One zombie generated a day, 4 if you're a level 20 wizard, is pretty paltry in my opinion. I guess it adds up after a while if you're a patient Lich but I'd wager there are faster ways to build up an army using those high level spell slots.

[JackPhoenix]

Thread about necromancy get necromancied. Fitting. But still reported.

[stoutstien]

"Infinite". One zombie generated a day, 4 if you're a level 20 wizard, is pretty paltry in my opinion. I guess it adds up after a while if you're a patient Lich but I'd wager there are faster ways to build up an army using those high level spell slots.
Create undead - wrights and life drain can get a horde up and running quick.

[Shuruke]

Based on the wording, it should really be called "Finger of Unconciousness". I made a thread by that name a month or two ago that's probably a bit buried now. Point is, it lacks wording that says "if this drops the target to zero, it dies". Thus it takes massive dmg (current hp + max hp) to turn a PC into a zombie or, depending on DM discretion, possibly dropping to zero from FoD and then failing three death saves.

It's sad. Seems like this nerfed it as a scary BBEG type villain spell since it will rarely kill PCs in a non-easily-reversible way. It still works for most NPCs since they (typically) die at 0. This is mostly good news for PCs but bad news for DMs trying to create a compelling narrative and challenge the players with real threats.

It may not work on players

If the necromancer is "cleaning " up the streets by killing bandits and thugs well it could still be fun XD
Especially if it turns into a
Undead crawl out of sewers at night and buy prisoners from the towns gaurd type thing :3

Eventually the town gaurd is able to relax becaise theirs no more crime of burglars or upstarts because no one wants to be dragged to sewers.

Inn keepers tell adventurers not to start any trouble while looking very squeamish and worried about what could happen if their bussiness is known for having ruffians.

The guards start getting better armor wearing full plate that completely covers their faces.

The local nobles no longer show their faces due to a disease causing sensitivity to sun and are no longer able to speak.

XD

[Lunali]

This is a complete non-sequitur, but I've always loved the wording of "Finger of Death".

My mind automatically jumps to a necromancer flipping off his foes, then watching as they crumple to the ground dead.

Mine jumps to Frieza with his death beams.