Some Multiclass Builds

[demonslayerelf]

Half-Elf
Eldritch Knight 6
Vengeance Paladin 6
Bladesinger 8
Choose the Defense and Two-Weapon Fighting Styles. With point buy, you get 8 Str, 18 Dex, 10 Con, 20 Int, 8 Wis, 20 Cha
With Studded Leather, your AC is 22, for 2 minutes. 24 Hasted, and Shield is an option, to get to 29 in nonmagical studded leather.
13th level spellcaster, with action surge, two attacks per turn, Haste, Divine Smite, and a +16 Concentration check. Lowest saving throw is Wisdom at +4, but most are between 11 and 9.
Wield two weapons and be hasted, you get 4 attacks per turn, plus an action surge to drop whenever. With 13th level casting, you can drop a ton of nasty smites, but you can also pick up the cantrips Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, in place of having 2 attacks, if you want. You can still smite on that, though.

Damage of each smiting attack is, with scimitars, 1d6+5d8+4. You get 4 of those each round, but the d8's will slowly lessen over time as you run out of spell slots.
Damage of a GFB attack is, with smite and scimitars, 1d6+8d8+4. You'll get one of these each round, but you'll also hit another person with 3d8+5 damage, and the 8d8 will drop like the normal smites.

You also possess 2 5's, a 6, and a 7, which you can use with 4th-level or lower wizard spells.
If you want to get real mean, 7th level Shadow Blade. It reduces your attacks each turn to 3, but two of those attacks become 10d8+4, and you use one fewer smites. Or, you can make a GFB attack, with Shadow Blade, and Smite, and end up with 13d8+4 damage, then a 1d6+5d8+4 as a bonus action(Not on the first turn).

Really, the options are unlimited.

Wood Elf
Eldritch Knight 3
Paladin 2
Open Palm Monk 5
Moon Druid 10
Fighting Styles don't matter here. With point buy, you get 8 Str, 20 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 20 Wis, 8 Cha
With no armor, your AC is 20. In each of your Wild Shapes, the option of using 10-Dex-Wis is possible, and preferred, in a lot of cases. Shield is still an option, but only in Druid form.
12th level spellcaster, with action surge. Wild shape is the star, because Giant Scorpion is awesome.
In giant scorpion form, you get AC 16, 52 health sponge, 2 pincer attacks(With smite), 2 stinger attacks(Not on the first turn, with smite). With an action surge to burn, and 5 Ki points to give ANOTHER stinger attack, with smite, the True Force of Nature can pump out;
1d8+2+5d8, three times, then 1d8+2+4d8, with just the claws, which also give 4 grapples, though you can only use 2. Then the stinger comes in, with 1d10+2+4d8(Twice), then 1d10+2+3d8(Twice more), and 4 con saves against poison(Low DC of 12, but it's still 2d10 on a success) for another 8d10-16d10 damage. When using FoB, which gives 2 stinger attacks as a bonus action instead of 1, victims also need to save against prone/push, or just take no reactions.

But the worst part; Stunning Strike. At DC 19, if something fails even one of these saving throws, they're stunned, and all of the above damage(Except the attack that stunned the victim, and the poison) is all doubled, as they're automatic crits. Save the Smite and Action Surge until the target is stunned, and watch them pop like a balloon.

Human(Not Variant)
Monk 14
Paladin 6
Nothing matters here, except putting points into Charisma, and taking the Lucky feat. You end up with 14, 14, 13, 14, 12, 20.
Terrible character, but his saving throws are all between 12-16, and he can spend a Ki Point and/or Luck Point to reroll one.

I can't tell if it's OP or UP.

[Aett_Thorn]

At least your "True Force of Nature" build is impossible by RAW. Need at least a strength and charisma of 13 to multiclass Paladin.

[Easy_Lee]

Level 20 builds aren't useful in most campaigns. In general, builds should come online during tier 2 (5-10) if not before.

[Alatar]

In general, builds should come online during tier 2 (5-10) if not before.

This is the real challenge of any multiclass build. and MAD builds especially. Is it going to be fun to play at (almost) every level? If it doesn't gel until level 12 then that's 6 to 12 months of gritting your teeth and grinding it out, and underperforming. And what compromises will you have to make along the way to make it fun and keep it fun all along the progression path? What were the agonizing choices that you are still second guessing?

What the build looks like at level 20 is really beside the point. It's all over at level 20. if your campaign made it that far, then everyone is already eyeing the exits.

For this reason, when I look at a build, I want to see it at 3 or 4 points along the progression. What does it look like at levels 4, 8 and 12?

[Easy_Lee]

This is the real challenge of any multiclass build. and MAD builds especially. Is it going to be fun to play at (almost) every level? If it doesn't gel until level 12 then that's 6 to 12 months of gritting your teeth and grinding it out, and underperforming.

Agreed. This is one of the things that makes warlock dips so appealing: Agonizing EB ensures that you're always at least competent. Entire builds can spring up around this or that set of options while always having EB as a fallback.

In comparison, a martial who dips before level 5 gives up a large portion of his DPR until he can get extra attack. Meanwhile, if you make a martial / rogue and start down the rogue path after extra attack, you gain additional damage every other level.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I'm not fond of the multiclassing system.

[Specter]

Your 'ultimate gish' build can't happen, because you need 13 STR for Paladin.

And you shouldn't worry about it either. Going Paladin means investing in 4 stats instead of 2, and getting yet another useless instance of Extra Attack. You don't need to smite to do a gish job.

[Alatar]

Agreed. This is one of the things that makes warlock dips so appealing: Agonizing EB ensures that you're always at least competent. Entire builds can spring up around this or that set of options while always having EB as a fallback.

I don't play warlocks. I eschew foreign entanglements.


In comparison, a martial who dips before level 5 gives up a large portion of his DPR until he can get extra attack. Meanwhile, if you make a martial / rogue and start down the rogue path after extra attack, you gain additional damage every other level.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I'm not fond of the multiclassing system.

I really enjoy sweating over difficult builds. I spent many months putting together my current character, a death cleric / eldritch knight. He specializes in cleric touch attack spells. Dex, not Str, medium armor, shield, and he plays like a tank. And I haven't even made it to fighter 3 yet. So far, at cleric 5 / fighter 2, it's been a very satisfying experience. And next level I get Shield, Absorb Elements and Expeditious Retreat. Life gets even sweeter.

I'm currently fiddling with a battlemaster/swashbuckler build. I played a battlemaster recently and it was a whole lot of fun. But he started to fade in tier 3. The Shield Master bonus shove grew less and less effective. Just managing to close on higher level opponents with increased mobility became problematic. I retired that character after level 11. He could have endured a bit longer, but I wanted him to go out near the top of his game.

So now I am attempting to fashion a battlemaster that will flourish in tier 3. The rogue's bonus dash will shore up the battlemaster's movement. Expertise will bolster his athletics checks in shove contests. Sneak attack damage, with occasional extra off-turn sneak attacks via riposte, will make up for the extra attacks I forfeit by taking rogue levels rather than fighter levels. The plan as it currently stands is vhuman, Shield Master at 1st level, 6 levels of fighter, followed by 8 levels of rogue, then finish up with 6 more levels of fighter. The build starts clicking at 1st level and it never stops getting better, at least in the theater of my imagination. All in all, a much simpler build than my MAD cleric / fighter.

[CircleOfTheRock]

'Tis Way of the Open Hand, not 'Open Palm' for the second build.

[XmonkTad]

I spent many months putting together my current character, a death cleric / eldritch knight. He specializes in cleric touch attack spells. Dex, not Str, medium armor, shield, and he plays like a tank. And I haven't even made it to fighter 3 yet. So far, at cleric 5 / fighter 2, it's been a very satisfying experience. And next level I get Shield, Absorb Elements and Expeditious Retreat.

I would like to see more details on this build, it seems quite interesting.

In general though, it feels pretty difficult to do the gish thing without smite. If you're turning actions into damage, it just seems too good to pass up when you can just have the spells turn into direct damage without a save.

Lots of these builds look good at 20, but lack synergy on the way.

[Alatar]

I would like to see more details on this build, it seems quite interesting.

In general though, it feels pretty difficult to do the gish thing without smite. If you're turning actions into damage, it just seems too good to pass up when you can just have the spells turn into direct damage without a save.

Lots of these builds look good at 20, but lack synergy on the way.

As chance would have it, I just posted the full build progression to another thread: Death Cleric / Eldritch Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545480-Some-suggestions-on-building-a-character&p=22694669#post22694669)

I'm currently at 7th level. It's going really well so far, and I'm just about to hit Eldritch Knight. I like to play survivors. We have some hairy combats. Old school. I've had the same DM since 1978. This character stays on his feet.

[2D8HP]

Okay, while they most classes that I've played at once was a Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue, I've never seen a 20th level PC, so this is theory-crafting.

I like playing Wood Elves for the mechanics (not RP), and I like playing Outlander Backgrounds (again for the mechanics). Human is my favorite for RP, as are the Folk Hero, and Guild Artisan backgrounds. An Urchin background Half-Elf is a great compromise for good fluff and crunch (for me).

I always like to have some Champion Fighter levels (I love gaining "Fighting Style's", Crits are fun for me, and Battlemaster Maneuvers and Superiority Dice are too much of a headache for me to keep track of for what they do).

I've got Xanathar's Guide, and I want to try out playing a "Gloom Stalker" Ranger, and a "Scout" Rogue.

So I'd like to get at least 3 levels each in Ranger and Rogue to qualify for Gloom Stalker and Scout, at least 3 levels in Fighter to get Improved Critical, and I'd like to have two Extra Attacks, plus 3 Fighting Style's (Archery, Defense, and Duelist, which are

A Fighter (Champion) 11, Ranger 3, Rogue 3 (so 17th level) delivers all that (one could even throw in two Paladin levels and get a fourth Fighting Style at level 19!).

As an alternate, "Superior Mobility", which a 9th level Scout gets, looks pretty sweet as well, but that would mean losing some Fighter or Ranger levels, having played a Fighter/Rogue (Swashbuckler), I know that would be a fun "build" as well.

[PeteNutButter]

Some constructive criticism below

Your "Ultimate Gish":

As has been pointed out you need a 13 in str and cha for paladin. It's also very clunky picking up extra attack three times. That's 2 dead levels. 2 of those are unnecessary and should be replaced by something more useful. Eldritch Knight adds entirely nothing to the build. Spells are redundant with wizard spells and progress slower. It seems all you want from fighter is action surge, so leave it at 2. Dump Bladesinger in favor of a more helpful wizard like war wizard. That way you can dump dex and leave int at 13, making the character potentially viable. Bladesinger is a terrible idea on any MAD character. You never want to be a class that relies on ASIs for AC increases that is MAD for a variety of stats.

Your "Force of Nature":

Stunning strike stuns foes, it does not paralyze them. There is no automatic crit there. EK is pointless again. Take druid to 11 or something, for 6th level spells. The 13s for str and cha for paladin are again not met with this build. Your AC in giant scorpion form would not be 15. Monk AC changes the way you calculate your AC, so it gives you 10 + wis + dex. You lose the natural armor. So with a giant scorpion, you'll end up with a 16 AC. You might as well consider the poison damage 2d10, because at that level basically every monster will make a DC 12 con save. It's DM dependent, but as with any build that uses low level wildshapes at high level... watch out for disintegrate spells.

Your Mr. Saving Throw:

Yeah, I think it's terrible, and also overkill. With a decent stat spread and one resilient feat a paladin can have all the saves he needs by level 6. Like bladesinger, monk when thrown onto a MAD build is a recipe for disaster, as you lack the stats for a decent AC. You might never fail a save, but a couple dozen orcs can turn you into a pincushion with that AC.

I'd say, its back to the drawing board with these, but your head is in the right place.

[Specter]

Some constructive criticism below

Your "Ultimate Gish":

As has been pointed out you need a 13 in str and cha for paladin. It's also very clunky picking up extra attack three times. That's 2 dead levels. 2 of those are unnecessary and should be replaced by something more useful. Eldritch Knight adds entirely nothing to the build. Spells are redundant with wizard spells and progress slower. It seems all you want from fighter is action surge, so leave it at 2. Dump Bladesinger in favor of a more helpful wizard like war wizard. That way you can dump dex and leave int at 13, making the character potentially viable. Bladesinger is a terrible idea on any MAD character. You never want to be a class that relies on ASIs for AC increases that is MAD for a variety of stats.

Fighter lets you start with CON proficiency, plus another ASI at level 6. Effectively that's two ASIs, which is what you want ina multiclass build.

[PeteNutButter]

Fighter lets you start with CON proficiency, plus another ASI at level 6. Effectively that's two ASIs, which is what you want ina multiclass build.

It’s only “extra” if all his other classes ended on an ASI. He could stop fighter at 4 and take paladin to 8, and he’d have the same ASIs but a lot better features. Fighter 5 is dead and 6 is just the ASI. Paladin 7 is a great feature and 8 is the ASI and one more MC “caster level.”

[Specter]

It’s only “extra” if all his other classes ended on an ASI. He could stop fighter at 4 and take paladin to 8, and he’d have the same ASIs but a lot better features. Fighter 5 is dead and 6 is just the ASI. Paladin 7 is a great feature and 8 is the ASI and one more MC “caster level.”

I didn't realize you were keeping Paladin in the mix. In this case, it's a no brainer: Pal/BS needs STR, CON, INT and CHA, while EK/BS needs DEX, CON and INT. Even if you have the same ASIs, you'll always be behind in stats and still need to grab Resilient (,CON) eventually. Not worth it.

[PeteNutButter]

I didn't realize you were keeping Paladin in the mix. In this case, it's a no brainer: Pal/BS needs STR, CON, INT and CHA, while EK/BS needs DEX, CON and INT. Even if you have the same ASIs, you'll always be behind in stats and still need to grab Resilient (,CON) eventually. Not worth it.

Well if we were to make it optimal it’ll end up being a paladin/sorcerer or an EK/wizard nothing in between.

[Specter]

Well if we were to make it optimal it’ll end up being a paladin/sorcerer or an EK/wizard nothing in between.

Well, true dat.