Cleric Tomb of Annihilation

[HMS Invincible]

My level three party so far consists of a halfling rogue, and a barbarian. We got three more unknown characters coming to this hellish island. We are all level three.

I haven't played since the beta came out. I have everything on roll20 and the xannatar guide to everything.

My character is a tentatively a tempest cleric w heavy armor, shield and Warhammer. I' want to play it like the stereotypical battlemage cleric who is in melee combat. I've noticed that tempest sounds more suited to ranged squishy caster. Am I being inefficient? If so, is it so bad that I should switch domains or play styles? I'm locked into my class and race. Variant human with bonus feat.
stats
16 STR
11 DEX
14 CON
11 INT
17 WIS
9 CHA

I don't need to optimize everything, just have a thematic character with class features that doesn't horribly clashes.

[lunaticfringe]

Tempest works fine in melee, at least imx I've played one till 10. It's really the only way to get Wrath to trigger.

SCAG wasn't out but I would probably grab Booming Blade because it fits & Find Familiar because it super handy on a Cleric with Magic Initiate if I Rolled up another. Resilient: Con & War Caster are pretty standard choices as well.

[HMS Invincible]

Tempest works fine in melee, at least imx I've played one till 10. It's really the only way to get Wrath to trigger.

SCAG wasn't out but I would probably grab Booming Blade because it fits & Find Familiar because it super handy on a Cleric with Magic Initiate if I Rolled up another. Resilient: Con & War Caster are pretty standard choices as well.

Can you use less acronyms? And can you tell me why these work? Sorry, but it's like drinking from a firehose here.
Edit: Do I need to only pick spells that I can cast with a free hand? I can probably attach a focus onto my shield, but won't my shield hand be considered occupied?

[lunaticfringe]

Can you use less acronyms? And can you tell me why these work? Sorry, but it's like drinking from a firehose here.
Edit: Do I need to only pick spells that I can cast with a free hand? I can probably attach a focus onto my shield, but won't my shield hand be considered occupied?

SCAG= Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.
IMX= in my experience

Booming Blade is a Cantrip the applies additional Thunder Damage on a Melee Attack + even more thunder damage if it willingly moves before the start of your next turn. It increases your Melee Attack Damage basically. It uses the Cast A Spell action so it is beneficial for classes that do not gain Extra Attack. The cantrip starts off weak so you can wait until level 4+ (it upgrades at lvl 5) to get it if you decide to. It is not a Cleric spell so the only way to get is through the Magic Initiate feat.

If you have a a Familiar it can deliver Touch spells for you which is beneficial for a cleric. Did your friend just die and you can't reach them? Send your owl to revivify them. They can also Scout & use the Help Action to grant Advantage

[lunaticfringe]

I forgot to Address casting with hands full. War Caster removes this limitation but you cannot use the Cast A Spell action and the Attack action as a Cleric (Booming Blade works because you make a Melee weapon attack as part of the Cantrips). You can draw or sheath a weapon once on each of your turns, so a Simple Trick is to sheath your weapon when you cast and draw it when you attack (or cast Booming Blade). You can do this until you get War Caster (if you choose to get it).

[SirGraystone]

Booming blade would be great except that it's not a cleric cantrip. But since you are a tempest cleric ask your DM if you can still have it he may let you have it (I would). Booming blade doesn't have Somatic component (which mean you don't need a free hand for it), you cast it when you do melee attack.

War Caster feat is the first thing you should get a level 4, it will let you cast any of your spells while holding a weapon and shield.

[HMS Invincible]

Booming blade would be great except that it's not a cleric cantrip. But since you are a tempest cleric ask your DM if you can still have it he may let you have it (I would). Booming blade doesn't have Somatic component (which mean you don't need a free hand for it), you cast it when you do melee attack.

War Caster feat is the first thing you should get a level 4, it will let you cast any of your spells while holding a weapon and shield.

I'm a human with a bonus feat, does that mean I should get it right away at lvl 1?
If booming Blade isn't homeruled, then I shouldn't spend a feat to get access to it, correct? Should I change domains to get it or something? I was going off some guy who hits people and cast spells, so I like the idea of hitting people with spell enhanced weapons.

[lunaticfringe]

I'm a human with a bonus feat, does that mean I should get it right away at lvl 1?
If booming Blade isn't homeruled, then I shouldn't spend a feat to get access to it, correct? Should I change domains to get it or something? I was going off some guy who hits people and cast spells, so I like the idea of hitting people with spell enhanced weapons.

You can get it as a Cleric through:
Arcana Domain
Multiclassing
A feat.

I disagree that you need War Caster on a Sword & Board Tempest Cleric by lvl 4. I never had it on mine. Drawing & Sheathing works Clerics don't really have any Reaction Spells to speak of and the only Bonus Action Spells with S Components are:

Sanctuary
Shield of Faith
Spiritual Weapon
Holy Weapon.

Your Action economy should be fine without War Caster. It's a good feat but not required for the Cleric.

[Requilac]

There is nothing wrong with a tempest cleric who goes into melee. Sure there are more optimal domains to go with, but a tempest cleric should do perfectly well in that position. You may not have the most powerful character build in the party, but you should be sufficient for the purpose at hand. And on a side note; because you are a variant human you do get a feat directly at level one.

Keep in mind that you are allowed to put your holy symbol on your shield (the equipment section in the PHB literally states that “A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.”), so even if you do not have war-Caster you can still have both hands full and cast spells with somatic components normally.

[joshcw2011]

Getting war caster has more utility then just allowing you to cast spells without a free hand. One of the biggest things for the frontline cleric is the advantage on concentration checks. Plus if you plan on getting Booming Blade it syngergizes well with that cantrip allowing you to use it on opportunity attacks. I wouldn’t go with the arcana cleric for them since you don’t get proficiency with heavy armor with that path at least not for a pure class. If you want a way around that you could start with fighter and then multiclass into cleric, but for a pure class I think it would be better to pick it up with magic initiate. I would suggest picking up war caster first since it will help you right away and then magic initiate at level 4. This is because Booming Blade (and green flame blade) really become useful eat level 5 when they start adding constant damage. If you did go down the multiclass route an interesting combination is to combine the battlemaster pushing attack with Booming Blade.

[HMS Invincible]

Getting war caster has more utility then just allowing you to cast spells without a free hand. One of the biggest things for the frontline cleric is the advantage on concentration checks. Plus if you plan on getting Booming Blade it syngergizes well with that cantrip allowing you to use it on opportunity attacks. I wouldn’t go with the arcana cleric for them since you don’t get proficiency with heavy armor with that path at least not for a pure class. If you want a way around that you could start with fighter and then multiclass into cleric, but for a pure class I think it would be better to pick it up with magic initiate. I would suggest picking up war caster first since it will help you right away and then magic initiate at level 4. This is because Booming Blade (and green flame blade) really become useful eat level 5 when they start adding constant damage. If you did go down the multiclass route an interesting combination is to combine the battlemaster pushing attack with Booming Blade.

Can you tell me what situations where war caster makes a difference, that me having a focus on a shield, doesn't?

I noticed that Melee fighting clerics are MAD, and sword & board seems to be punished again (i guess it's hard to fix this problem plaguing D&D since forever). So I'm not only maxing WIS, which means I'm behind a bit. Should I keep investing in combat, or just fight early on, and then shift to primarily casting as I level up*? In addition, nobody has commented on Tomb of Annihilation. Aren't resurrection spells not working, and the areas extra deadly?

*I guess I should keep my options open until I meet the rest of the party and watch them fight together. Then I'll decide to fill in any missing holes, besides skill monkey.

[lunaticfringe]

In addition to being able to do S components with your hands full War Caster also:

Gives you Advantage on Constitution saves to maintain Concetration on a spell when you take damage.

Whenever you can make an Opportunity Attack you can cast a spell at the target instead as long as it has a casting time of 1 Action & targets only that creature.

[joshcw2011]

Can you tell me what situations where war caster makes a difference, that me having a focus on a shield, doesn't?

I noticed that Melee fighting clerics are MAD, and sword & board seems to be punished again (i guess it's hard to fix this problem plaguing D&D since forever). So I'm not only maxing WIS, which means I'm behind a bit. Should I keep investing in combat, or just fight early on, and then shift to primarily casting as I level up*? In addition, nobody has commented on Tomb of Annihilation. Aren't resurrection spells not working, and the areas extra deadly?

*I guess I should keep my options open until I meet the rest of the party and watch them fight together. Then I'll decide to fill in any missing holes, besides skill monkey.

Like lunatic says it gives you advantage on concentration checks and all your best spells will be concentration like bless and spirit guardians. Since you are on the front lines with a target on your back due to these spells you will be making those checks often so you want all the help you can get to maintain them. The spell as an opportunity attack is a neat bonus but you hardly ever get those anyway.

Instead of war caster you can also take resilient for +1 con and proficiency in con saves. The proficiency will be better at high levels but worse at low levels then the advantage. There are a lot of suggestions to take both but you would probably be fine with just one or the other.

[jojo]

Booming blade would be great except that it's not a cleric cantrip. But since you are a tempest cleric ask your DM if you can still have it he may let you have it (I would). Booming blade doesn't have Somatic component (which mean you don't need a free hand for it), you cast it when you do melee attack...

Everyone really loves Booming Blade lately. This is perhaps the worst thing you can do for your particular character because as you mention:


I noticed that Melee fighting clerics are MAD, and sword & board seems to be punished again (i guess it's hard to fix this problem plaguing D&D since forever).

You are at risk of being MAD already. If you take Booming Blade it will rely on either INT or CHA, which you're never going to be able to increase so it becomes a serious waste since it will hardly ever hit.


There is nothing wrong with a tempest cleric who goes into melee...
...(the equipment section in the PHB literally states that “A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus...
...or bear it on a shield.”)....

I agree with this. I've always found Tempest Clerics to be interesting and flavorful. I would recommend focusing on being a caster first and a melee combatant second. Keep your 17 in WIS but switch your STR and CON scores to 14 (for the ability to wear chain mail @level 1) while your CON stays high to keep you less squishy.

At low levels your best spell is going to be Spiritual Weapon for Attack, Bless and Guidance for Support and Healing Word for Healing.

Feat Selection for you, it's probably best to get your two primary melee feats out of the way at low levels:

1st Level -> Resilient, CON (+1 CON, Proficiency in Saves) always a huge deal.
4th Level -> Heavy Armor Mastery (+1 STR, DMG Resistance to Bludgeoning, Slashing and Piercing)
8th Level -> ASI (+1 WIS, +1 CON)
12th Level -> ASI (+2 WIS)
16th/19th Levels -> Dealer's Choice.

You're going to survive. You're not going to outshine anyone necessarily but the huge amount of Nova you can bring to the table is entirely dependent on your Class Features, not your Feat Selection, which is great.

As a Cleric you're always going to have a Viable substitute for Extra Attack via Spiritual Weapon from level 3 onward. Spiritual Weapon does Force Damage, which isn't commonly resisted and makes attacks with your Primary Casting Stat, minimizing your MAD.

This lets you concentrate on Bless, which makes up for your mediocre attack stat but also aids everyone in the Party.

You've got good endurance because you can still take the Guidance and Toll the Dead/Sacred Flame Cantrips for when you have used all your spell slots which replicates your higher level abilities all day long allowing you to stay relevant.

Heavy Armor Mastery at level 4 will not only keep you alive for a long time but it will allow you to meet the STR requirement for Full Plate Armor, hopefully right around the time it becomes available.

Splitting your ASI at level 8 gives you minimum 4 additional HP over waiting, which can be all the difference you need while also keeping your WIS reasonable.

I believe Tomb of Annihilation ends around 11th level, but the stuff I typed out above should let you be a steady and reliable addition to the party throughout.

[lunaticfringe]

Booming Blade doesn't use Int or Cha (well if you are a Hexblade) to hit. You make a Melee Weapon Attack, so hitting with it relies on STR or DEX, the damage isn't altered by Int or Cha. Having it doesn't make you MAD.

[Khrysaes]

I think 2 levels of Divination wizard would work well for getting booming blade.

You get portent, which can be stylized as messages from the gods, or divine power or what have you. Which will help you or an ally twice per day, or make an enemy have a bad day.

You also can get Familiar, booming Blade, Absorb Elements, and Shield this way. A few other cantrips and first level spells of the arcane variety, that as a wizard you can cast some from your spell book as rituals.

2 levels while stopping you from getting 20 cleric, doesnt prevent your 18th archetype ability, which as a tempest is great.

[lunaticfringe]

I think 2 levels of Divination wizard would work well for getting booming blade.

You get portent, which can be stylized as messages from the gods, or divine power or what have you. Which will help you or an ally twice per day, or make an enemy have a bad day.

You also can get Familiar, booming Blade, Absorb Elements, and Shield this way. A few other cantrips and first level spells of the arcane variety, that as a wizard you can cast some from your spell book as rituals.

2 levels while stopping you from getting 20 cleric, doesnt prevent your 18th archetype ability, which as a tempest is great.

Not bad. You will want War Caster if you decide to do this because Shield & Absorb Elements are Reaction Spells with S Components so cannot be cast while holding a Weapon & Shield w/out it.

[joshcw2011]

I think 2 levels of Divination wizard would work well for getting booming blade.


He doesn’t have the intelligence for a wizard multiclass.

[Khrysaes]

He doesn’t have the intelligence for a wizard multiclass.

you are correct. And based on the stats, they look like they were rolled instead of point buy otherwise I would suggest dropping dex to 10 and cha to 8 to bump int to 13.

Edit, but since I realized that, and that means this isnt AL legal. If you can convince your DM to allow you to boost your int as above, and us UA material, Lore wizard 2 will net all your spells that arent cantrips to be lightning damage. You could take advantage of that 6th level ability much more this way. Say, with lighting damaging spiritual weapons.

[Theodoxus]

One thing not mentioned, though it doesn't matter for the OP, since he's human - but you can also get BB via High Elf or Half-Elf (High Elf descendant). I did that for a life cleric I once played. Didn't do a ton of melee (so probably wouldn't go that route on a life cleric again), but on a tempest? Sure, why not? Dex and Wisdom, half plate, rapier and a shield? Good times!

[HMS Invincible]

One thing not mentioned, though it doesn't matter for the OP, since he's human - but you can also get BB via High Elf or Half-Elf (High Elf descendant). I did that for a life cleric I once played. Didn't do a ton of melee (so probably wouldn't go that route on a life cleric again), but on a tempest? Sure, why not? Dex and Wisdom, half plate, rapier and a shield? Good times!

If I swap my strength for my dex, I can no longer wear heavy armor or make it 4 way MAD.
I think I figured out that tempest cleric melee is a not optimal, but
1. It's flavorful as hell
2. The munchkins all promised we wouldn't metagame this to hell and back.

Based on the past threads, I should either double down (valid since I am still a full caster and it should still be tier 3-4 ish) or don't spend any additional resources on melee combat once I level up.

We are trying to give the non optimized players a chance to shine, and to polish our roleplaying skills, which often gets lost in the optimization shuffle.

PS whoever said to ask for a free booming blade, the request was denied by my DM. He thinks it's too good to be freely given.

[Khrysaes]

If I swap my strength for my dex, I can no longer wear heavy armor or make it 4 way MAD.
I think I figured out that tempest cleric melee is a not optimal, but
1. It's flavorful as hell
2. The munchkins all promised we wouldn't metagame this to hell and back.

Based on the past threads, I should either double down (valid since I am still a full caster and it should still be tier 3-4 ish) or don't spend any additional resources on melee combat once I level up.

We are trying to give the non optimized players a chance to shine, and to polish our roleplaying skills, which often gets lost in the optimization shuffle.

PS whoever said to ask for a free booming blade, the request was denied by my DM. He thinks it's too good to be freely given.

A half elf would get +2 cha and +1 to two stats(just like human) which could still be Str + Wis. With High Elf Descendant in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, you get booming blade at the cost of your +2 skills. Some people argue that it should be 1 skill, since it says Keen Senses OR Whatever subrace of elf feature. And who would sacrifice 2 skills for one?

I did a quick relook and didn't see anyone saying ask your DM to just give you booming blade. I mentioned to ask about lowering dex and cha -1 each to their even number and upping Int to 13 to allow multiclass into wizard if you wanted to go that route, for the aforementioned spells and either portent or lore mastery.


Edit: Tempest cleric is fine as is.

Suggestions: Get more out of your melee cleric with booming blade, because Clerics don't get Extra attack, booming blade picks up that slack.

Ways to get booming Blade:
Magic Initiate Feat. Comes with 2 cantrips.
High Elf or Half Elf(High Elf Descendant), gets 1 cantrip.
Arcane Cleric. Defeats the purpose though.
1 level Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock. All would require a boost to your stats to multiclass. 2 Wizard either Divination(PHB), or Lore(Unearthed Arcana), would give a good addition to your cleric abilities, and also grant you access to Shield, Absorb Elements, Find Familiar, and other 1st level spells.

Your stats are teh equivalent of a +1 Str +2 Wis race using point buy with 32 points. Which is 5 higher than the PHB allows. Therefore as I mentioned before, I concluded that you rolled them.

If you want Wizard levels. Talk to your DM, and see if he would allow 10 Dex, 8 Cha, 13 Int. which would be the equivalent number of points. Your 1 or 2 wizard levels can be taken at any point. It would set your cleric spell casting back, and level 5 is a big boost for that and booming blade isnt more useful until level 5, so maybe hold of until levels 6-8 or so. This would give you your knockback ability(CLR 6), grant booming blade only a level or two after it got upgraded, and if your a lore wizard, allow all your damaging spells that aren't cantrips to create the knockback effect.

[HMS Invincible]

If I wanted to focus on melee combat, then I need to focus on power attack, and concentration feats, right? Then I can maintain buffs in battle while I trade blows. I'll probably only have access to whatever spells I learn and a few feats, so I have to make them count.

[lunaticfringe]

If I wanted to focus on melee combat, then I need to focus on power attack, and concentration feats, right? Then I can maintain buffs in battle while I trade blows. I'll probably only have access to whatever spells I learn and a few feats, so I have to make them count.

No Power Attack, I believe you are thinking of Great Weapon Master. While it can definitely help close the Damage gap with Extra Attack Builds you can't use the +10 damage feature with nonHeavy weapons. Meaning you ditch the shield because Heavy Weapons are all 2 handers. It's also just flat out better with more than 1 attack, which Clerics do not get.

I'm going to suggest you look at Eldritch Knight or Paladin they might suit you better. A not unheard of practice around these parts is to use Cleric Domain Spells as the Paladin extended spells.

So like use the Tempest Domain Spell list on an Ancients Paladin. Worth a shot.

[joshcw2011]

Ya wouldn’t want to take Great Weapon Master. If you are calling the booming Blade cantrip that has been talked about the power attack then that will suite you just fine. You can do great with that combined with spells like bless and spiritual weapon and then latter spirit guardians. Actually a melee focused cleric makes the most out of spirit gaurdians and with your domain thunderwave and destructive wave. Not sure why you are calling it MAD anyway with only str con and wis as important stats. That’s no more MAD then a paladin, ranger or bladelock. At level 5 you will be dealing 2d8+mod and denying their movement plus 1d8+mod from a spiritual weapon attack and an additional 3d8 to everyone within 15 feet of you with spirit gaurdians. That is some very nice damage output and the melee damage alone goes up by another 1d8 every 3 levels.

[HMS Invincible]

Ya wouldn’t want to take Great Weapon Master. If you are calling the booming Blade cantrip that has been talked about the power attack then that will suite you just fine. You can do great with that combined with spells like bless and spiritual weapon and then latter spirit guardians. Actually a melee focused cleric makes the most out of spirit gaurdians and with your domain thunderwave and destructive wave. Not sure why you are calling it MAD anyway with only str con and wis as important stats. That’s no more MAD then a paladin, ranger or bladelock. At level 5 you will be dealing 2d8+mod and denying their movement plus 1d8+mod from a spiritual weapon attack and an additional 3d8 to everyone within 15 feet of you with spirit gaurdians. That is some very nice damage output and the melee damage alone goes up by another 1d8 every 3 levels.
It's MAD because I only have two good stats, and 1 average stat. The builds out there either require extra, Cha, Dex, or int. And just supporting strength is a trade-off, even with the small boost from rolled stats.
I decided to stop forcing melee rabbit holes, and went with
Str 14+1 racial+1 heavy armor Mastery
16 con
11 Dex
9 int
17+1 racial Wis
11cha
That should let me survive better with more hp, and some DR. I decide on magic initiate feat later, depending on how deadly it is, and how high power it is. It'll also let me keep my bless up longer, since I'm in deep melee, and feat starved.

Has anyone looked at the zeal domain? It's like a war and Tempest mix from the planescape source. It gives me access to more elemental damage, fire+thunder.
It's a shame that I'm giving up a lot of cool factor in order to have a more effective character. Eg, I can't keep thaumaturgy, because I only have three Cantrips. (Need guidance, mending, and a ranged attack spell).