The ultimate magical dabbler

[weckar]

He steps out of the shadows, yet you are quite sure he was not hidden there before. He looks rugged, unshaven, potentially drunk. A bandolier of wands and what appears to be a spellbook, albeit with a large number of loose pages stuffed in it, reveal that this is a man of some magical talent. Unexpectedly, he raises his arm and speaks some eldritch word of power. A collection of complex glyphs, thus far invisible in the darkness, starts glowing on the floor and the walls behind him.
This is no ordinary mage -- This man speaks with the demons, has learned a number of crude spells and binds the souls of those who can benefit him. He is a mere dabbler, but he dabbles in every magical art imaginable.

It may be a silly idea, but I want to build a character who does just a little bit of everything. He knows a few invocations, a few spells (some arcane, some divine), can pronounce a truename or two, binds some vestiges and soulmelds and finishes of by brewing a potion. He is a dabbler - an ultimate dabbler. He would not get much beyond 1st, maybe 2nd level... anything, but I think he'd be interesting to play. How could we best build such a character so that the dabbler nature comes out at the earliest level possible, rather than someone who starts as a specialist and de-specialises as he grows?

[noob]

Take a dip into spellthief and take the master spelltief feat for solving partially the caster level issue(it will not grant you slots it will only make your spell have an easier time to go through spell resistance and make them scale a bit).

[weckar]

Won't that only work for my arcane spellcaster levels? Which I'd have quite few of?

Not that spellthief itself wouldn't make a great addition for a dabbler.

[noob]

The thing is that there is multiple arcane spellcasting classes that are different like wizard, shugenja and shair so by dabbling in those three classes and in spellthief you can get some spells with cl 4 which will help you a lot with magic resistance and then you can use a custom magical item(of touch of good that works continuously) that allows to make all your spells good(you just need the right to make a continuous item of a boost spell) and then thanks to that item you can then use theurgic specialist(or whatever that was called) to get correct cl on all arcane and divine spells(the sum of the cl of all those classes).

[weckar]

Theurgic Specialist only works on your specialty school, so I am not sure how making all spells Good helps. Additionally, I think you mean Wu-Jen rather than Shugenja?

But, yeah, it's an option. I'm at the moment still more concerned with getting multiple magic systems onto the character than having more arcane spells, though, but that could be a thing at higher levels :)

[noob]

So truenaming,binding,shadowcasting,warlock,meldshapi ng,list casting,prepared casting,spontaneous casting,familiar spell retrieval,truenaming(not related to truenaming) with word of creation,item using,(apprentice luck is awesome with staves for not spending charges),dark speech,spontaneous psionics,power slot psionics(erudite only) and a bunch of others

[weckar]

Ehh, I'd be cool leaving out psionics, but otherwise I'd like to get as many of there in one build as possible - no matter how ineffective it is :smallbiggrin:

[ayvango]

start with factotum 3 lvl, dip some class for 2 other levels and then become chameleon. May be it should be houserulled to offer alternative aptitudes.

[weckar]

Factotum doesn't seem like it does anything for me but give 1 spell, does it? Chameleon seems a decent enough option, maybe. The floating feat could help me pick up some more obscure abilities as needed.

[ayvango]

Factotum doesn't seem like it does anything for me but give 1 spell, does it?
Since chameleon is a prestige class, you could not start with it and you need some other class to attend before. Factotum is good because it could do large diversity of tasks. It adds Int bonus to many stuff. It has full skill access and sometimes skills works like magic. It has theme "know all, master none" which connects perfectly to half-hearted caster theme you would like to play.

[Zaq]

If you really mean it about “no matter how ineffective it is,” then just start dipping your heart out ASAP until you run out of unique flavors of magic.

Get as many feats as your level of cheese will permit early on (human with 2 flaws at a very minimum) and get feats like Magical Training, Shape Soulmeld, Bind Vestige, Hidden Talent, Lesser Utterance of the Evolving Mind, and so on (not all of those are functional at level 1) to have a whiff of each of their respective magic systems before you take the appropriate level.

[EldritchWeaver]

That's something Spheres of Power could work (but needs GM buy-in). SoP would allow access to all possible effects in theory (even healing), but that's going to be expensive. One way would be to take incanter/wizard levels for the magic talents and take every base sphere. Then collect wands (SoP ones, not core wands) which grant additional magic talents from those spheres. Disadvantage is that once you select the spheres, you can't change them without retraining and it takes until level 13 to get all base spheres. So this is more long term.

There is the PF arcanist, whose SoP conversion allows you to switch the basic talents daily, but reduces the number of talents to 10 over 20 levels. Which means you can adapt easily to wands, but maybe being able to specialize in one sphere on demand is the actual strength here. Not sure if that is something you could still call dabbling.

There are also some classes/archetypes which gain the chance to "learn" unknown magic talents, but this is a daily limited resource. And may be restricted to a certain sphere as well. But you get even talents you don't have wands for.

But the above stuff might not be even necessary. The main point of knowing a sphere, on which a wand is based on, is that this allows you using the wand without requiring a UMD check. If you are ok with UMDing things then classes are largely irrelevant. Just get the wands you want and take any spheres/magic talents you like. Just beware that wands still need to be charged, if using effects which expend spell points.

Another option (and not exclusive to others) would be to go and take the Spell Dabbler feat chain. It allows you to prepare spells as a wizard from any spellbook, which depending on the spells might be a good investment. At least by RAW you aren't bound to particular spell lists, so pick and choose to your liking.

[noob]

That's something Spheres of Power could work (but needs GM buy-in). SoP would allow access to all possible effects in theory (even healing), but that's going to be expensive. One way would be to take incanter/wizard levels for the magic talents and take every base sphere. Then collect wands (SoP ones, not core wands) which grant additional magic talents from those spheres. Disadvantage is that once you select the spheres, you can't change them without retraining and it takes until level 13 to get all base spheres. So this is more long term.

There is the PF arcanist, whose SoP conversion allows you to switch the basic talents daily, but reduces the number of talents to 10 over 20 levels. Which means you can adapt easily to wands, but maybe being able to specialize in one sphere on demand is the actual strength here. Not sure if that is something you could still call dabbling.

There are also some classes/archetypes which gain the chance to "learn" unknown magic talents, but this is a daily limited resource. And may be restricted to a certain sphere as well. But you get even talents you don't have wands for.

But the above stuff might not be even necessary. The main point of knowing a sphere, on which a wand is based on, is that this allows you using the wand without requiring a UMD check. If you are ok with UMDing things then classes are largely irrelevant. Just get the wands you want and take any spheres/magic talents you like. Just beware that wands still need to be charged, if using effects which expend spell points.

Another option (and not exclusive to others) would be to go and take the Spell Dabbler feat chain. It allows you to prepare spells as a wizard from any spellbook, which depending on the spells might be a good investment. At least by RAW you aren't bound to particular spell lists, so pick and choose to your liking.

except that this way you will have access to only three kind of casting systems.(spell dabbling,spheres and sphere spellcraft)
while going truenamer 1/binder 1/Totemist 1/wizard 1 already gives you 4 casting systems.
Since the objective was to maximize the number of casting systems(and not the number of things he can do with them) then you should not take more than one level in a sop class because beyond this level you have diminishing returns in number of casting systems.

[skunk3]

Dweomerkeeper? Have a couple levels of cleric, wizard, warlock, etc.. the take dweomerkeeper to advance whatever class you want?

[EldritchWeaver]

except that this way you will have access to only three kind of casting systems.(spell dabbling,spheres and sphere spellcraft)
while going truenamer 1/binder 1/Totemist 1/wizard 1 already gives you 4 casting systems.
Since the objective was to maximize the number of casting systems(and not the number of things he can do with them) then you should not take more than one level in a sop class because beyond this level you have diminishing returns in number of casting systems.

My suggestion has the merit that such a dabbler could be still effective in play, compared to the mess the character otherwise would be. I wouldn't be surprised if such a character gets kicked out of the group.

[Gruftzwerg]

I would go warlock / chameleon.

Warlock gives you some invocations, while chameleon is there for the rest (arcane & divine spells, combat/stealth focus..).

as for higher lvls you could aim for:

warlock 5 / chameleon 10/ xxx 5
(a solid & versatile build)

or

warlock 12 / chameleon 2 / Blood Magus 4
( a craftlock build: makes use of the floating feat from chameleon to craft; further BM gives Scribe Scrolls to scratch em into your skin and Brew Potions in your own blood)

Add some Dark Speech related feats and you're done i guess.

[Nifft]

Since chameleon is a prestige class, (...) Factotum is good because it could do large diversity of tasks. In my experience, Factotum is a terrible way to enter Chameleon.


I would go warlock / chameleon.

Warlock gives you some invocations, while chameleon is there for the rest (arcane & divine spells, combat/stealth focus..).

as for higher lvls you could aim for:

warlock 5 / chameleon 10/ xxx 5
(a solid & versatile build) Second! Warlock is a great way to enter Chameleon.

However, I'd suggest Warlock 6 / Chameleon 10 / ___ 4.

Warlock 6 gets you one Lesser Invocation, which means you can use your floating bonus feat for a Extra Invocation, which would be unavailable if you'd stopped at Warlock 5. It also means you know one Lesser Invocation, which is awesome, since you can do stuff like teleport at-will all day.

Since you can teleport at-will all day as a spell-like ability, you might use your remaining 4 levels for Telflammar Shadowlord, which gets you Shadow Pounce right at level 4. The feat prereqs are harsh but the benefits are juicy.

Alternately: Jaunter (which only has 4 levels).

Alternately: Binder 1 / Hellfire Warlock 3 (bind Naberius every day; cast Sanctified and/or Corrupt spells every day).

[Bohandas]

gestalt Factotum//Savant exentually multiclassing into chameleon

[Bohandas]

Since chameleon is a prestige class, you could not start with it

Unless you're playing some monster race that qualifies out of the box

[Jormengand]

I feel like ardent is your friend for getting you five levels of manifesting (possibly more) out of one class level; ur priest is also good for accelerated divine progression. Fortunately, you can get some utterances (I'd go with universal aptitude, minor word of nurturing, hidden truth and fog from the void) and vestiges and maneuvers and stances from feats: you can even get a power but not usually enough points to keep manifesting for very long (a torc of power preservation would let you use it at will) which is why I recommend the ardent level. You can't enter ur priest or MT early very easily anyway, so dropping levels on ardent isn't too bad.

If you take wizard 5/ardent 1/ur priest 1/mystic theurge 9/cerebremancer 4, for example, then you end up with spellcasting as a wizard 14 (7th), ur priest 10 (9th) and ardent 9 (5th), assuming Practiced Manifester is your only ML boost. That's not too bad, and it's possible to do better. Meanwhile, you throw feats at Truespeak Training, Utterance of the [Lexicon], Martial [Maneuver/Stance] and Bind Vestige. This is going to take a lot of feats; see if you can swap out your wizard bonus feats (Dark Chaos shuffle is traditional but actually quite hard to do in practice without a helpful NPC).

I will say that people who aren't dedicated to truespeak use do tend to have problems using utterances unless they're allowed Item Familiar. So you might want to cut yourself down to just five different things.