Elven Spell Lore - best usage

[Hyperversum]

Ehi there guys!

I was building my cute old elf wizard for a "new" campaign afer endind the old one time ago. Since he was always played as a support/generalist caster, dispelling is pretty common for me, and while I have item for it, I never considered until now Elven Spell Lore.

A flat +2 to Dispel Checks seems pretty worth it, in particular adding a +2 to my LI with the Archmage High Arcana and Ioun Stone; with Arcane Mastery fate it means automatically dispelling even spells from "standard" casters with 3 levels ahaed of me.

But... what about the second part of it? I didn't check rules about it, but I am pretty sure that I can change only into the traditional elements (Fire, Sound, Acid...). As a support wizard, I mostly deal with Ground control and buffs, even if the occasional blast happens (last fight, believe it or not, Lighting Chain saved the day), therefore I have no big idea how to use this part of the feat.
I could take Ice on Schorcing Ray, but I was thinking to already pick Ice from the Elemental Mastery in Archmage next High Arcana, but if I can avoid it, I could take Counterspell Mastery. For sure, it's not the best High Arcana, but since I am already using a feat to improve by counterspelling, it could be worth it.

[Venger]

Ehi there guys!

I was building my cute old elf wizard for a "new" campaign afer endind the old one time ago. Since he was always played as a support/generalist caster, dispelling is pretty common for me, and while I have item for it, I never considered until now Elven Spell Lore.

A flat +2 to Dispel Checks seems pretty worth it, in particular adding a +2 to my LI with the Archmage High Arcana and Ioun Stone; with Arcane Mastery fate it means automatically dispelling even spells from "standard" casters with 3 levels ahaed of me.

But... what about the second part of it? I didn't check rules about it, but I am pretty sure that I can change only into the traditional elements (Fire, Sound, Acid...). As a support wizard, I mostly deal with Ground control and buffs, even if the occasional blast happens (last fight, believe it or not, Lighting Chain saved the day), therefore I have no big idea how to use this part of the feat.
I could take Ice on Schorcing Ray, but I was thinking to already pick Ice from the Elemental Mastery in Archmage next High Arcana, but if I can avoid it, I could take Counterspell Mastery. For sure, it's not the best High Arcana, but since I am already using a feat to improve by counterspelling, it could be worth it.

Welcome!

even for a focused dispeller, this feat is not worth the resources you are required to invest in it. +2 just isn't that impressive and is easily eclipsed by cheaper options such as the dispelling cord or access to the inquisition domain.

the second part of it has no such requirement. it applies to any spell that deals hit point damage, even if it's not originally an energy spell. for example, you could apply it to orb of force, which deals untyped damage, if for whatever reason you wanted to.

you do not have to pick an energy type with this feat. you can pick any energy type each time you prepare spells for the day.

this feat is really disappointing. if the second option is something that's exciting to you, take energy substitution instead. this can apply an energy type of your choosing to all your spells instead of just one. for extra fun, take snowcasting to add the [cold] descriptor to spells, energy sub it to electric, and then make it born of three thunders.

[Scots Dragon]

if the second option is something that's exciting to you, take energy substitution instead. this can apply an energy type of your choosing to all your spells instead of just one. for extra fun, take snowcasting to add the [cold] descriptor to spells, energy sub it to electric, and then make it born of three thunders.

Better yet, don't do this, because it doesn't fit the character being aimed for. Not everything has to be perfectly tweaked to eke out the maximum possible advantage, and as a wizard the character's already a bloody Tier 1 character. You can stand to take a random sub-optimal feat or two as a wizard, for the love of Zod.


Here's my advice, personally; it's probably a sub-optimal feat, but it's a bonus that seems to stack with other bonuses to dispelling and thus fits the character thematically as an elven wizard who likes to dispel things. Its other element probably isn't a major factor, but elves are long-lived and wizards tend to be scattershot in what they learn, so having a bit of extra mastery over a specific energy-damage spell is just like having a seldom-used cantrip or other spell that only comes up every now and then.

Maybe apply it to magic missile and have it hurl fire or ice every now and then since that's a spell that isn't usually affected by things like mastery of elements or energy substitution anyway.

[Venger]

Better yet, don't do this, because it doesn't fit the character being aimed for. Not everything has to be perfectly tweaked to eke out the maximum possible advantage, and as a wizard the character's already a bloody Tier 1 character. You can stand to take a random sub-optimal feat or two as a wizard, for the love of Zod.


Here's my advice, personally; it's probably a sub-optimal feat, but it's a bonus that seems to stack with other bonuses to dispelling and thus fits the character thematically as an elven wizard who likes to dispel things. Its other element probably isn't a major factor, but elves are long-lived and wizards tend to be scattershot in what they learn, so having a bit of extra mastery over a specific energy-damage spell is just like having a seldom-used cantrip or other spell that only comes up every now and then.

Maybe apply it to magic missile and have it hurl fire or ice every now and then since that's a spell that isn't usually affected by things like mastery of elements or energy substitution anyway.

nice stormwind fallacy, especially when op didn't say anything about being how she's a ROLLplayer and not a rudisplorker. I never said she couldn't take a crappy feat if she wanted to, so don't strawman.

she asked how the feat worked and had some misconceptions, so I explained how it worked. if she doesn't like it, she can ignore my advice.

the feat's dispel bonus, being untyped, of course stacks with all other bonuses to dispel checks. as Hyperversum says, even with this being one of the only boosts to dispelling checks, spells ahead of the EL are likely to be dispelled automatically. the same would be true with basic bonuses to dispel, such as a dispelling cord, and that doesn't cost a feat.

if for whatever reason you wanted to have magic missile as your go-to as a non mailman non force missile mage, snowcasting would allow it to be affected by both those things.

if you want to stick with elven spell lore, orb of force is a more useful base than magic missile since it doesn't allow sr.

what level is your game? if you're planning to pick mastery of elements, then obviously don't bother with energy substitution, but snowcasting will still let you get more mileage out of it even if you don't have room for three thunders.

[Hyperversum]

We play in a pretty high power level setting, we are a group that generally tries to optimize at the best in order to make characters actual heroes and not sad paladins that do 1d8+8 damages at level 15.

The point is that, anyway, we try to fluff things. Snowcasting is simply out of any possible sense in my character. Probably he cast like... 2 spells with cold damage?
It's just as dipping things in order to have the bonus from the domain. I mean, I know how it works but makes no sense on the character.

Probably, I will take 4 or 5 levels in Archmage, my ideas were:
1) Arcane Reach
2) Mastery of Shape or how the hell it is called
3) Spell-Like Ability; probably for an always ready Celerity or Teleport (things we use a lot)
4) Mastery of Counterspelling. Casting Spell Turning some time before an actual fight isn't a bad idea either, but spending a level 7 slot for 7-10 levels turned isn't exactly that good to me.
5) Dunno actually, probably a second Arcane Reach or Spell Power.

Therefore, Elven Spell Lore was just another way to spend a feat that, right now, I have no much use for.

[Crake]

Welcome!

even for a focused dispeller, this feat is not worth the resources you are required to invest in it. +2 just isn't that impressive and is easily eclipsed by cheaper options such as the dispelling cord or access to the inquisition domain.

the second part of it has no such requirement. it applies to any spell that deals hit point damage, even if it's not originally an energy spell. for example, you could apply it to orb of force, which deals untyped damage, if for whatever reason you wanted to.

you do not have to pick an energy type with this feat. you can pick any energy type each time you prepare spells for the day.

this feat is really disappointing. if the second option is something that's exciting to you, take energy substitution instead. this can apply an energy type of your choosing to all your spells instead of just one. for extra fun, take snowcasting to add the [cold] descriptor to spells, energy sub it to electric, and then make it born of three thunders.

I disagree, because you can take elven spell-lore alongside all those options. Very few things actually stack onto dispel checks, rather than just boosting your caster level, and when you hit the dispel magic caster level caps, it's only those very few things that help out. Elven spell lore, combined with a dispel chord, the inquisition domain (gainable via the planar touchstone feat for the catalogues of enlightenment) and the divine defiance feat, along with some source of turning make for an absolutely brutal counterspeller. +8 to your dispel check, which, if you're not CL capped, means you can counterspell enemies up to 7 CL above your own with a take 10 as an immediate action, that's starting to get pretty sweet.

Nothing quite like completely shutting down an enemy wizard who's a bunch of levels ahead without even really losing any of your own actions in the process. It really comes down to whether you want to go all in or not, because honestly, you could probably get away with just the inquisition domain, but IMO, getting +18 on dispel checks for a regular old dispel magic makes those low level spell slots actually remain most useful later down the line. Makes that level 3 regular dispel magic just as good at counterspelling as a level 6 greater dispel magic for a normal person.

[Fouredged Sword]

Are you set in stone about your class setup? I would suggest master specialist if you want to dispell. The +5 competence bonus to dispell checks is powerful and the multi-round mettle/evasion effect after casting an anjuration is really useful. It also eases the entry into archmage somewhat.

I personally like wizard 3 / cleric 1 / master specialist 7 / abjurant champion 3 / archmage 1 / abjurant champion 2 / master specialist 3.

One dip cleric in there for divine defiance and the inquisition domain if you wish. The build above is 19/20 wizard casting. Swift action dispel magic at a +11 keeps that wonderful 3rd level spell relevant for the whole game. Your greater dispel magic is a beast. The best is the immidiate action dispel activates master specialist's moderate estocia and grant mettle/evasion for 3-5 round. Even if your dispel fails you will stamd a good chance to walk away untouched.

[animewatcha]

Elven spell lore seems like you can give the spell a damage type of your choice. Any type. Does this mean Fireball can be made to do force damage instead of fire?

[flappeercraft]

Something I would suggest depending on the DMs interpretation would be Reserves of Strength. On one interpretation it can increase the caster level cap by 3 on dispel checks and on the other interpretation just completely remove it. Of course if you decide to use Reserves of Strength, use some kind of Daze immunity.

If you are going to dispel, Elven Spell Lore isn't that good unless you really have no other good uses for feats.

[Venger]

Elven spell lore seems like you can give the spell a damage type of your choice. Any type. Does this mean Fireball can be made to do force damage instead of fire?

it doesn't specifically restrict you to energy types, so you could pick force, city, holy, vile, whatever

[Crake]

it doesn't specifically restrict you to energy types, so you could pick force, city, holy, vile, whatever

Actually, it does in the errata:


Page 78 – Elven Spell Lore [Revision]
Change the second paragraph, third sentence of the
“Benefit” section to the following: “When
preparing that spell, you can alter the energy type
of the damage it deals to some other energy type of
your choosing.”