Celestial warlock usefulness?

[Harrysonford]

Since the release of Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, there have been many threads about various new subclasses. For the warlock, it seems that the Hexblade is getting much more love than the celestial. Don’t get me wrong, I love the hexblade, but I also love the celestial. I’ve been reading things about how it doesn’t seem very useful. Is the celestial warlock a useful subclass? And how so?

[Snowbluff]

Well, they can heal is a bouns action, right? That's like 20 healing words per day.

[Easy_Lee]

Well, they can heal is a bouns action, right? That's like 20 healing words per day.

Right, and they can do so without consuming their limited warlock spell slots. Additionally, since it's not a spell like healing word, celestial warlocks can bonus action heal people on the same turn as they cast a leveled spell.

Hexblade gets a lot of attention on the forums because it does the most damage. That's all anyone seems to care about. But a celestial warlock can cast eldritch blast and bring a party member back up from range in the same turn. When you consider what the party members does with his extra turn, you see that a celestial warlock has the potential to add more damage than the Hexblade in certain circumstances.

[Naanomi]

A Celestial Tomelock is probably among the best ‘utility casters’ in the game, with a good source of at-will damage to boost

[LudicSavant]

Celestial Warlock's highlights are that it gives you a versatile and efficient yo-yo healing ability, having Restoration and Revivify on-call, and eventually being able to yo-yo *themselves* at 14th level (while damaging and blinding folks around them with no save). And of course they can still do all the same eldritch blast stuff that every other warlock can do.

Seems solid to me.

[Willie the Duck]

Hexblade and Celestial are just alternative answers to the question, "Okay, so what is the warlock doing when they aren't doing the warlock primary action of eldritch blasting things to bits at range?" For hexblade, it is up close fighting. For the celestial, is bonus action fun (healing or the rather solid flaming sphere). I'm currently playing a half-elven acolyte cleric1 (knowledge)/warlock (celestial) 7. He is surprisingly useful--standard blasting, flaming sphere when I want to burn a spell (4d6+cha is not shabby as a bonus action attack, even if it is commonly resisted, can't hit fliers, etc.), medium armor+shillelagh+GFB makes for acceptable melee if forced into that role, healing is strong, and you get all the cantrips and ritual spells you can shake a stick at.

[Oerlaf]

Since the release of Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, there have been many threads about various new subclasses. For the warlock, it seems that the Hexblade is getting much more love than the celestial. Don’t get me wrong, I love the hexblade, but I also love the celestial. I’ve been reading things about how it doesn’t seem very useful. Is the celestial warlock a useful subclass? And how so?

This build utilizes Life Cleric 4/Celestial Warlock 16 as the ultimate healer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pUfBpqHQeqMcjFKW_JBS-57mkBL0J3wG8tUA8yjqX0M/edit

I am trying that build in AL (since it is perfectly legal), and it works quite well.

I personally love that celestial warlock can heal as a bonus action with its Healing Light feature: since it is not a spell, it is not subject to counterspell (I personally met DMs who counterspell healing spells), nor blocked by Antimagic Field. Oh, tank drops to 0 - heal for 1d6, eldritch blast the atacker. Tank drops another time to 0 - heal for 1d6, eldritch blast the attacker, and so on for your Warlock level + 1 rounds.

Although I am not going to take Major Image when I hit level 10 (I am level 9 now), aiming for Enemies Abound instead.

[DarkKnightJin]

Celestial also makes a nice combo with Paladin.
Sure, they could use their action for Lay on Hands, or use a Bonus Action for Healing Light. And smack an offender in the face once or twice, possibly Smiting in the process.

[jaappleton]

The Celestial is nowhere near useless.

However, the Hexblade IS immensely frontloaded. Like, insanely so. It's entirely build-altering.

I don't see the Celestial as a Warlock, however. I just... don't. What I do see is an alternative Paladin. A short rest variant Paladin, that can be played as a caster, or as a gish. Pact of the Blade, Smite, healing, etc.

As a Blade, I absolutely adore Celestial, because Short Rest Paladin something I've wanted for so damn long that its ridiculous.

Also, the invocation Gift of the Ever Living Ones coupled with your own healing? Pretty damn nice. Just maximum healing whenever you heal yourself.

[rbstr]

Celestial is my favorite Patron. I definitely agree that it's kinda shortrest-based Paladin-as-fullcaster. It's a good subclass as a blaster or blade (though blade probably wants a small martial dip).
While Hexblade, rightfully, gets crap for Warlock powercreep at level 1. Celestial does it too, just to a lesser degree. Healing light is a stronger level 1 ability than anyone else's save hexblade.
The expanded list gives you some of the most important Cleric healing spells in revivification and the restoration spells. (Plenty of classes can heal, few can bring back the recently dead at level 5)

The level 6 feature isn't really all that great. Sacred Flame still isn't that good compared to eldritch blast and it doesn't work as well with Flaming Sphere as you'd like since it's only on-cast and only one target.
The higher level features are quite good, decent THP and, maybe, the best "choose not to die" ability in the game.

[jaappleton]

Celestial is my favorite Patron. I definitely agree that it's kinda shortrest-based Paladin-as-fullcaster. It's a good subclass as a blaster or blade (though blade probably wants a small martial dip).
While Hexblade, rightfully, gets crap for Warlock powercreep at level 1. Celestial does it too, just to a lesser degree. Healing light is a stronger level 1 ability than anyone else's save hexblade.
The expanded list gives you some of the most important Cleric healing spells in revivification and the restoration spells. (Plenty of classes can heal, few can bring back the recently dead at level 5)

The level 6 feature isn't really all that great. Sacred Flame still isn't that good compared to eldritch blast and it doesn't work as well with Flaming Sphere as you'd like since it's only on-cast and only one target.
The higher level features are quite good, decent THP and, maybe, the best "choose not to die" ability in the game.

Agreed on pretty much everything. I really don't understand why the lv6 only applies to one target, when Dragon Sorc applies to every target.

I don't hate the spell list, but I'm not in love with it. The new spells from XGtE added to the vanilla Warlock list make up for it, though. Especially the new lv4 spells, that was a damn slim list before that.

[Temperjoke]

Bear in mind, when you're looking at class stuff on this forum they tend to be focused on solo player white-room combat optimization. That means that support roles and abilities that would shine in a party or out of combat tend to get downplayed and ignored, since it's not maximizing your personal damage per round.

Now, as to the original question, I think the Celestial Warlock itself is a decent stabilizer, but I don't think the class by itself is excessively skilled as a healer. It's like a mix of Life and Light Cleric domains where it's a mix of healing and specific types of damage (radiance and fire). That being said I'd say that this class is good for someone looking to add some healing to their character.

[Asmotherion]

Overall, Celestial is a good option, that is overshadowed (like most other patrons nowdays) by Hexblade.

First of all,RP; it is the only Patron who is Vanilla Good without needing any further explaination; Even the Fey patron may imply Hags and Evil Fay, but the Celestials Vanila first thought is a good guardian angel... Even a Fallen Angel/Celestial etc is a second thought.

Second of all, it does have good mechanics. It may be no Hexblade, but it's spells, healing and bonus damage, as well as class features give it at least an equal footing with Fiend, Old One and (as I see it) a bit better than Fey. It sure it a lot better than Undying, that's a given.

Overall, it's still oppening up a lot of dip potential for Fire Dragon Sorlocks who don't intend to Gish at all, and would rather add twice their Cha mod to their Fireball, or if they still want to add their Cha to their Fireball against a specific enemy who seems more bulky (Boss) but instead want to take a different Sorcerer Archetype (Celestial/Divine Soul seems very thematic here).

The worst part here is the "against one target" part, but still it's better than nothing, and it's in addition to being a Sorlock. You also get limited Healing and if you go for the 3rd level, access to Flaming sphere.

Flaming Sphere can save you a lot of Sorcery points if used correctly, as instead of quickening, you can (by taking agonising and repealing blast), Hit an opponent with it, effectivelly positioning it, and then Repelling Blast an other opponent on it, for more Damage than Hex(?)*.

Overall, Celestial Warlock is a very good option if you don't intend to Gish, it's just overshadowed by the fact of how Obviously Great Hexblade is both directly, and at Synergising with other Classes. And the fact they come in the same Chapter does not help.

*Haven't Done the math, just a crude calculation.

[SylvanPrincess]

I have been designing a CelestiaLock 3/Divine Soul X for the past week and have been super intrigued about adding swashbuckler rogue to it. The cha bonus to initiative seems great for a healer/blaster, as well as the awesome mobility it gets. I was thinking Swash 7 to get 4d6 SA and Evasion/Uncanny Dodge. Would that much rogue make the healer sorclock a ton less effective? I ended up dropping rogue from my build, but I dont want to haha...

[SkylarkR6]

I'm not a fan of all of it, as others have said the level 6 ability is kinda meh, but I prefer my celestial tomelock to my hexblade even before I multiclassed. I enjoy casting a spell and still having free healing words. Hell it feels like i got a bunch of extra spell slots just for saving teammates.

Once poor Donovan was killed at the hands of a group of angry yuan-ti. My new celestial was born and is now Ancients paladin 5/celestial tomelock 4. My favorite character to date and I have yet to feel the desire to go back to hexblading

[Mortis_Elrod]

Personally i like it alot. Very good option for someone who wants do still deal damage but also able to pick up people in a fight.....Only not paladin flavored. Like a short rest ranged paladin. Not to say it can't go melee.


On another note i've found its useful to heal friendly Undead. Same with Dreams druid though.

Would love a more Evil celestial option. There are plenty of Death Gods, and bonus to necrotic damage instead of radiant would make my day. Currently that damage type can only be specialized in by a death cleric, feel like warlock should get a chance too.

Anybody feel like changing all the radiant damage to necrotic and the healing spells from expanded list to their opposites? (note sure what to do for flame strike though).


Cold + Necrotic.....Ahh welcome back Lord of Uttercold.

[Theodoxus]

This build utilizes Life Cleric 4/Celestial Warlock 16 as the ultimate healer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pUfBpqHQeqMcjFKW_JBS-57mkBL0J3wG8tUA8yjqX0M/edit

I am trying that build in AL (since it is perfectly legal), and it works quite well.

I personally love that celestial warlock can heal as a bonus action with its Healing Light feature: since it is not a spell, it is not subject to counterspell (I personally met DMs who counterspell healing spells), nor blocked by Antimagic Field. Oh, tank drops to 0 - heal for 1d6, eldritch blast the atacker. Tank drops another time to 0 - heal for 1d6, eldritch blast the attacker, and so on for your Warlock level + 1 rounds.

Although I am not going to take Major Image when I hit level 10 (I am level 9 now), aiming for Enemies Abound instead.

I rebuilt my AL dwarf cleric to this - but changed to vhuman to pick up the Healer feat (because ALL the healing is best!) I debated between HElf and Vuman, but ultimately decided on the feat - with point buy, I settled on a 13 strength with the idea that I won't get better than chain mail armor, so higher strength wasn't necessary (while also being able to lower Dex, to avoid the medium armor temptation). 16 Wis and Cha means my spells are just as effective regardless of class list.

I grabbed Word of Radiance and Toll the Dead, to complement Sacred Flame - for a cantrip that targets each major save. WoR has been particularly effective, as it was about the only AOE our party composition had... killing off twig blights by the handful every round :)

Then EB for spell ranged attacks... Thinking of grabbing Shillelagh via Tome next level. Should be set for any situation.

I really like being able to drop HW from cleric though... I've never played a life cleric without it - but getting a chance to grab Command or Guiding Bolt is quite promising.

[SylvanPrincess]

My character is going to be albino and carry an umbrella to hide from the sun. I got the DM to rule that I can cast Shillelagh on my umbrella! imagine a little gnome (or halfling, I am still undecided) fighting with an umbrella hehehe

[JayroBNeto]

Would love a more Evil celestial option. There are plenty of Death Gods, and bonus to necrotic damage instead of radiant would make my day. Currently that damage type can only be specialized in by a death cleric, feel like warlock should get a chance too.

Anybody feel like changing all the radiant damage to necrotic and the healing spells from expanded list to their opposites? (note sure what to do for flame strike though).


Cold + Necrotic.....Ahh welcome back Lord of Uttercold.

I don't think it would be terribly unbalanced. Actually it would probably be worse than what they have, given that their expanded spell list doesn't really have anything cold/necrotic. Could work pretty damn well with Toll the Dead I guess, tho I personally would change the cantrips they get to Chill Touch and Thaumaturgy(?) instead of Sacred Flame + Light

I guess my point is that if you change damage types for the features, you probably ought to change the expanded spell list too.

[Willie the Duck]

You're going to want to read the forum rules. Specifically the part referencing thread necromancy.

[Chronos]

Yes, Hexblade is more powerful than Celestial. This is not a problem with Celestial: It's a perfectly usable, well-designed subclass, that works well for what it does. It's a problem with Hexblade, which is way overpowered.

It's also worth mentioning that Celestial has a clear flavor that makes narrative sense, but Hexblade can't even figure out what it's supposed to be flavor-wise.

[Dr. Cliché]

First of all,RP; it is the only Patron who is Vanilla Good without needing any further explaination; Even the Fey patron may imply Hags and Evil Fay, but the Celestials Vanila first thought is a good guardian angel

Honestly, this is the main reason why the class holds no appeal for me.

Having an unequivocally good patron just seems antithetical to the whole idea of the Warlock.