Removing a Character from a Campaign [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Avonar

2017-12-23, 07:30 PM

Trippic

2017-12-23, 07:33 PM

Avonar

2017-12-23, 07:35 PM

I do have a potential backup of, if the players are as annoyed by what I see as rudeness as I am, I can kill the character off in a stupid way. Falling into an obvious pit trap.

ad_hoc

2017-12-23, 07:40 PM

I do have a potential backup of, if the players are as annoyed by what I see as rudeness as I am, I can kill the character off in a stupid way. Falling into an obvious pit trap.

No one owes you or anyone else an explanation.

It was polite of him to send you a message to let you know that he doesn't want to play anymore. He doesn't need to justify it.

Just narrate that the character dies in a trap at the beginning of the session. Easy.

lperkins2

2017-12-23, 07:47 PM

If you want to keep the character alive, have him receive a Sending, some sort of personal emergency. Assuming the party won't be in over their heads without him, it would give a good reason for him to leave in the middle of the adventure.

hellgrammite

2017-12-23, 07:52 PM

Run his character for the first 5 minutes, and have him grab an artifact that teleports him away.

Have him show up several sessions later as an NPC who is now fighting against the PCs. I have done that before.

Avonar

2017-12-23, 07:53 PM

No one owes you or anyone else an explanation.

It was polite of him to send you a message to let you know that he doesn't want to play anymore. He doesn't need to justify it.

Just narrate that the character dies in a trap at the beginning of the session. Easy.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I would have thought that common courtesy would mean you don't just send this message:

"i lost intrest, farewell then"

To me I see that as rude, not polite. I'm taking time to run a game for him, and to be told "Your game bored me, I'm out" is a bit of a slap in the face, especially without any attempt to bring up things he doesn't like.

Arkhios

2017-12-23, 07:58 PM

Turn the character into a "wolf in sheep's clothing". As in, "reveal" the character was, in fact, a villain all along only looking for a good moment to attack them.

When the others (eventually) kill the character, they might find incriminating documents on his/her person, affiliating him/her to some greater villain in the story. Either an existing one or entirely new.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I would have thought that common courtesy would mean you don't just send this message:

"i lost intrest, farewell then"

To me I see that as rude, not polite. I'm taking time to run a game for him, and to be told "Your game bored me, I'm out" is a bit of a slap in the face, especially without any attempt to bring up things he doesn't like.

I don't claim to know for sure, but there might be something bad happening on personal affairs which the player can't or doesn't want to talk about, and just chose to tell a white lie.

Alatar

2017-12-23, 08:00 PM

Should I kill off the character?

Nah. He's gone. Devote not one moment of game time to his character. Play the game with the people who are there.

Would it harm the immersion for the other players to simply remove him from existence?

What harm there is has already been done, and not by you. The character has already ceased to exist. Pay it no mind. The game will go on and he will soon be forgotten.

Unoriginal

2017-12-23, 08:18 PM

Just have him flee at the start of the next fight. Or during the night.

BobZan

2017-12-23, 08:22 PM

Talk to the other players and let them know that the other guy will stop playing. After that create a scene that he will dramatically die. Everyone will understand and move one.

Tanarii

2017-12-23, 08:39 PM

"i lost intrest, farewell then"

If that was the text, you probably don't want an explanation. It doesn't bode well.

I say, make it an opportunity. When the characters get ready to move on from wherever you cut off the last session, they look around, and his character is missing. Shortly thereafter they discover him dead, preferably in some horrible way, fitting to the inhabitants or traps of the dungeon.

Stelio Kontos

2017-12-23, 08:51 PM

There’s only one right answer here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4tvAjX5ACPo

Seriously, I wouldn’t give a second’s thought as to how to write him out. He’s not there. He never was.

ad_hoc

2017-12-23, 09:01 PM

Maybe I'm alone here, but I would have thought that common courtesy would mean you don't just send this message:

"i lost intrest, farewell then"

To me I see that as rude, not polite. I'm taking time to run a game for him, and to be told "Your game bored me, I'm out" is a bit of a slap in the face, especially without any attempt to bring up things he doesn't like.

You have no right to an explanation.

If you think of playing the game as work you should probably step back and reconsider why you are playing. No one owes you anything for playing with you.

This - "Your game bored me, I'm out" - Is a bit rude

This - ""i lost intrest, farewell then" - Is fine.

It's a little nicer to say something like this "Hey I'm not going to play in your game anymore but I hope you still have fun"

All of the above are better than simply not showing up anymore.

Regardless, no explanation is owed. You are not entitled to anything.

GooeyChewie

2017-12-23, 09:38 PM

You have no right to an explanation.

It’s true that the DM has no right to an explanation, in the sense that the DM can in no way require one. But that doesn’t make the lack of an explanation polite.

As for what to do, I would probably go the “mysteriously disappeared” route. You leave the door open for a while in case there has been some misunderstanding and the player comes back. On the other hand, once enough time goes by that you are sure the player isn’t returning, you also leave the door open to make the character return as an NPC (possibly with a heel turn). And if neither one happens, no big deal. He just got eaten by a grue.

Unoriginal

2017-12-23, 09:55 PM

You could also have his PC leave and have him open an inn or a tavern.

ad_hoc

2017-12-23, 10:04 PM

It’s true that the DM has no right to an explanation, in the sense that the DM can in no way require one. But that doesn’t make the lack of an explanation polite.

Is an explanation polite though?

Do you really want the player to say

"Hey I can't play anymore, I have cancer and the game is too much"

or

"I can't play anymore I have a lot of social anxiety and playing with you is too stressful"

or

"I can't play because I need to work more so I can afford to live"

or

"I do want to play anymore because I really don't like you/one of the players/the style of game. Though I don't want to ruin your fun so instead of coming, being miserable, and ruining the game, I'm just going to tell you that I'm going to do something else instead"

or

Any number of other scenarios that the group doesn't know about or deserve to know about.

If the player is comfortable offering an explanation, they will. If not, they won't. Expecting an explanation or prying is rude.

KorvinStarmast

2017-12-23, 10:14 PM

Any suggestions on what the best way to do this for the players is would be appreciated.
Two suggestions that were not mentioned above.
1. Ask one of the other players if they don't mind running two characters until this stage of the adventure is over. (out of dungeon). If it will take multiple sessions, ask the players if they would not mind taking turns. If yes, fine.
If no
2. Invite another friend to take the character over for a session or two, to get them out of the dungeon. See if anyone is interested. I've seen that done before.

Then, once they are out of this dungeon, in case 1 have the player retire (if still alive)
In case 2, see if the temp controller would like to make it permanent. (Or roll up one of their own).

Those are options that can work. Depends on your group. If they don't want that character played by anyone else, you already have some good suggestions.

TIPOT

2017-12-23, 10:44 PM

If the player is comfortable offering an explanation, they will. If not, they won't. Expecting an explanation or prying is rude.

I really don't see how expecting an explanation is rude. :smallconfused: maybe it's just me, but when I get a group together to play a campaign, it's with the expectation that they will keep playing. The Dm normally has to do a lot more preparation than the rest of the group. They also normally have to arrange the meet ups and host them. It is work, even if the fun you have stemming from it outweighs the cost.

It's really quite unfair for a player to just up and leave without even an attempt at a justification. Even an empty one or a general "things came up" would be good manners. Saying "i lost intrest, farewell then" is really not enough and I would ask them for more detail as to why they lost interest.

As for the character of the departing player, asking your players is a good idea. They'll probably have good ideas as to what could happen to him and can help facilitate them. Or just say he got vanishing sickness, that works too.

ad_hoc

2017-12-23, 11:41 PM

I really don't see how expecting an explanation is rude. :smallconfused: maybe it's just me, but when I get a group together to play a campaign, it's with the expectation that they will keep playing.

That needs to be expressly stated. I would never join a campaign like that. I like having ownership over my own life.

Games are supposed to be fun. If it is a job I want no part in it.

Saying "i lost intrest, farewell then" is really not enough and I would ask them for more detail as to why they lost interest.

And you should expect that person to be quite curt with you and to not speak to you again. Because what you are doing is rude. If you pursue the matter then that is harassment.

This boils down to a consent issue. It is not okay to force someone to either speak to you or play with you.

JNAProductions

2017-12-24, 12:03 AM

That needs to be expressly stated. I would never join a campaign like that. I like having ownership over my own life.

Games are supposed to be fun. If it is a job I want no part in it.

And you should expect that person to be quite curt with you and to not speak to you again. Because what you are doing is rude. If you pursue the matter then that is harassment.

This boils down to a consent issue. It is not okay to force someone to either speak to you or play with you.

That's rather excessive. If they hunt the absent player down, stalk them mercilessly, and demand answers, then yes, that's rude (and illegal).

But if they just text the absent player and ask "Hey, could you elaborate on why you left the campaign?" that's hardly rude.

Laserlight

2017-12-24, 12:31 AM

It probably breaks immersion less just to say "Joe no longer exists". Staging a fight to kill him off tends to some metagaming, in that the PCs would ordinarily presumably fight to save him, expend healing resources, maybe revivify him. The "no longer exists" takes five seconds and then their attention is on other things; the "kill him off" will probably take longer and for that whole time, their focus is on "The dude quit, and now we have to resolve that."

Temperjoke

2017-12-24, 12:51 AM

You don't deserve more of an explanation, however nice it might be, and the message you received wasn't overly polite either. I'd just let it go, though, it's probably better in the long run.

As for the player's character, there are a couple of options. If they're in the middle of a dungeon crawl, your best bet is to let the group run the character collectively, until they're finished with the dungeon, or something happens that the character can be abandoned, like if the character drops to 0 hp don't allow him to be revived. If you're between dungeons and such, the character could catch a disease, or depending on the character, run afoul of the authorities. Some that removes them from active play, and then they continued on their own path instead of rejoining the group. The benefit to this is that if for some reason the player regrets his decision and wants to return, and you are feeling generous, the player can without having to create a new character.

SociopathFriend

2017-12-24, 01:03 AM

Eesh, there's a lot of advocating for straight and immediate death of the character rather than just having him disappear. Have his character be a permanent driver for the inevitable loot-wagon or something- no need to vindictively kill the character.

Maybe he decided he wasn't cut out for the Adventurer Life and went home. Any sane person would- being an Adventurer is very close to suicide at worst, and immense pain and discomfort at best.

Raif

2017-12-24, 01:55 AM

I had this experience with a fellow player, and boy can I tell you I'd rather the player not have explained to the DM why they left. They got rather personal, saying how they felt not included and couldn't mesh well with the group even though we all tried to include them in the group.

My group is a close knit group of players who have been gaming together for 7+ years across multiple games, and play a lot more together than just DnD. Having that thrown at us that we weren't inclusive was hurtful, and well untrue as we certainly bring in new people and blood all the time. And we rather liked the person as a whole.

Trust me when I say a simple "I lost interest, thanks for the fish" is well and good and that you may not want more than that.

Our DM just had the character sort of stay in the back for a bit while we were in the dungeon, would cast a spell or w/e if it was called for by one of us. Once we got out of the dungeon and went to town, the character made its goodbye which we felt was necessary, they had been with us for almost a year. It was nice to have decent closure and good catharsis for letting out that steam.

Mjolnirbear

2017-12-24, 02:03 AM

Avonar

2017-12-24, 02:17 AM

Even at a job, an employer is not entitled to an explanation for quitting. Nor do they need to know the details of your absence due to illness (yes, doctors note. But they don't get to know you have cancer/survived a suicide attempt/have IBS/sprained an ankle).

You're not even entitled to that, and yet you're not happy that you got notice?

An explanation doesn't matter. He still stopped playing. The reason he stopped is precisely NONE of your business.

It doesn't stop any of us from wanting explanations. But wanting doesn't mean getting. We want it cause we're curious, and selfish, and annoyed, but we're not entitled.

Don't ask him why. It doesn't matter. He said no. Accept it and move on.

Which, Incidentally, should be the process whenever a woman (or man) says no to a date, phone number, drink, or sex. No right to an explanation, and s/he's not being rude for not giving one. Being pushy when we want something is not the greatest feature of our sex, guys. I say this not due to relevance but because it's a thing that needs to be brought up more often.

It seems I should clarify my point of view for a few of you.

I understand a person not wanting to play. I know that not every campaign and DM is for everyone, I've played with DMs where I don't like their style whereas others do, it's fine. And note that I have never stated I asked for an explanation, I wished the guy well and moved on.

But here's the thing. Using your analogy, if you have already agreed to a date with someone, I was clear from the beginning that this was an ongoing campaign, he knew what he was getting into, is it nice to say "I actually don't like you, bye." and leave it at that? You are perfectly allowed to, but it's a ****ty way to go about it.

I have no problem with a person leaving and not telling me why. If you are genuinely not liking the game, why not try and speak with the DM to fix it? And if there's another reason, surely you can at least take more than 5 seconds to send me a 5 word, mispelled message. There is a big difference between saying "Sorry, I don't think this game is for me." versus "i lost interst, farewell then"

But anyway, I will probably go for the remove him from existence route. Get it over and done with so we can focus on the player characters.

Nidgit

2017-12-24, 02:41 AM

To anyone saying DMing isn't work...have you yourself DMed? Because you put a lot of hours into creating dungeons, settings, and plots for your players to interact with. There's a tacit agreement that your players will give you enough respect in playing your game to make it worth your while.

The player in question doesn't need to give a real personal explanation for why they're leaving, but they should at least apologize for wasting the work you've done for them and say a few more words to be polite. That's courtesy.

Anyways, if you see potential in the character stash them away as an NPC. If not, make them and Indiana Jones expy dungeon deliver.

Callin

2017-12-24, 07:53 AM

Kidnap him ala Legend of Zelda style hand from the ceiling. Then you got options depending on party reaction. Heroic rescue or betrayal as he is turned to the villians side.

Unoriginal

2017-12-24, 08:14 AM

To anyone saying DMing isn't work...have you yourself DMed? Because you put a lot of hours into creating dungeons, settings, and plots for your players to interact with.

Not all DMs do that. You can DM nicely with half an hour of preparation.

TIPOT

2017-12-24, 08:46 AM

That needs to be expressly stated. I would never join a campaign like that. I like having ownership over my own life.

Games are supposed to be fun. If it is a job I want no part in it.

I mean, making a social commitment is a thing? It's like joining a club or sport team really. It's sort of expected that you won't up and quit without reason. Do you just not join clubs because you shouldn't feel constrained by that clear ownership over your life? That's ridiculous, backing out is fine if you're busy or something but quitting out of the blue for no reason, not even a token one, is really poor form.

And you should expect that person to be quite curt with you and to not speak to you again. Because what you are doing is rude. If you pursue the matter then that is harassment.

This boils down to a consent issue. It is not okay to force someone to either speak to you or play with you.

When asking someone for clarification becomes harassment you really are too sensitive. I can't see how asking someone why they lost interest in something is rude. It's really got nothing to do with consent to ask them an honest question?

Even at a job, an employer is not entitled to an explanation for quitting. Nor do they need to know the details of your absence due to illness (yes, doctors note. But they don't get to know you have cancer/survived a suicide attempt/have IBS/sprained an ankle).

You're not even entitled to that, and yet you're not happy that you got notice?

An explanation doesn't matter. He still stopped playing. The reason he stopped is precisely NONE of your business.

It doesn't stop any of us from wanting explanations. But wanting doesn't mean getting. We want it cause we're curious, and selfish, and annoyed, but we're not entitled.

Don't ask him why. It doesn't matter. He said no. Accept it and move on.

Which, Incidentally, should be the process whenever a woman (or man) says no to a date, phone number, drink, or sex. No right to an explanation, and s/he's not being rude for not giving one. Being pushy when we want something is not the greatest feature of our sex, guys. I say this not due to relevance but because it's a thing that needs to be brought up more often.

This is a really weird parallel to take. Sure the Employer doesn't have to be given a reason for quitting or sick leave, but I'd be shocked if they didn't at least enquire as to why, which is totally fine for them to do. They don't have to get a response, but it'd be shockingly rude for them not to at least give a friendly "everything alright now?" or a "anything wrong with the workplace that's making you leave?"

It's really not a matter of entitlement. I agree that they don't have to answer, but if it's asked respectfully and they aren't bombarded by questions that should be perfectly fine to ask for some explanation.

mgshamster

2017-12-24, 09:59 AM

Here's what I would do if a player did that to me:

Beginning of next session: "John can't make it anymore. His PC says, 'That's it! I'm out!' and he walks away, back to town." That way, if the player ever comes back, he still has his PC available if he wants to play that PC.

To the player who left, it depends on whether I enjoyed his participation. If yes, I'd respond with, "I hope everything is ok. You're always welcome to come back." If no, I'd respond with, "Thank you for the notice."

And that's that.

Fact of the matter is, this exact situation has happened to me. And that's exactly how I responded.

Sariel Vailo

2017-12-24, 09:59 AM

Two suggestions that were not mentioned above.
1. Ask one of the other players if they don't mind running two characters until this stage of the adventure is over. (out of dungeon). If it will take multiple sessions, ask the players if they would not mind taking turns. If yes, fine.
If no
2. Invite another friend to take the character over for a session or two, to get them out of the dungeon. See if anyone is interested. I've seen that done before.

Then, once they are out of this dungeon, in case 1 have the player retire (if still alive)
In case 2, see if the temp controller would like to make it permanent. (Or roll up one of their own).

Those are options that can work. Depends on your group. If they don't want that character played by anyone else, you already have some good suggestions.

Not bad not bad at all im goin to keep this in mind

Laereth

2017-12-24, 10:09 AM

Personally I'd go the route of you controlling the character (or having another player do it) up until they have a long rest and have the character vanish during the night (when it is his guard shift maybe ?). This way if he wants to get back his character still lives and you get the added bonus of using the reason he left suddently as a hook, maybe for a new quest ? (ex: his family was abducted and he was informed by "sending" so had to leave quickly, but now he needs their help).

Good luck with your campaign !

trctelles

2017-12-24, 10:36 AM

This is not a club, a job or anything like it. It's D&D, it should be played among friends. Try to talk to him and ask why (In a polite way) he stoped playing. AFAIK you're all grown ups, he might have a IRL problem, or is just not interested anymore.

Personally, I would make a way to send his character to town and have him on stand by. You never know if the player is comming back, and if he isn't, you don't really lose anything by sending him to town.

Tanarii

2017-12-24, 10:38 AM

Is an explanation polite though?Yes. OTOH sometimes a (very likely passive-aggressive & hostile) text like the OP received is better than someone dumping a bunch of negativity as in an explanation.

If the player is comfortable offering an explanation, they will. If not, they won't. Expecting an explanation or prying is rude.While I understand where you are coming from, some people believe in / need proper closure. In fact, lots of people do. That's why it's considered polite to provide explanations. You may personally find expectations of other people's behavior generally rude, as I tend to too, but society has whole areas where certain expectations from other people are considered polite. We don't get to declare all the rest of society wrong just because we don't like it. :smallwink:

SirGraystone

2017-12-24, 11:58 AM

Don't kill the character run him as an NPC and have him betray the group at the end of the dungeon, then run away.

Laserlight

2017-12-24, 01:13 PM

I don't claim to know for sure, but there might be something bad happening on personal affairs which the player can't or doesn't want to talk about, and just chose to tell a white lie.

Speaking from many years of sales experience, when someone turns you down. the first explanation they give you is almost never the real explanation. If you haven't asked "Was there anything else causing a problem?" several times, you haven't gotten to the actual problem. And the situation you're in is not one that would really reward your probing, as far as I can tell. Just be grateful he gave notice--many people wouldn't have done as much--and let it go.

Arkhios

2017-12-24, 01:39 PM

Speaking from many years of sales experience, when someone turns you down. the first explanation they give you is almost never the real explanation. If you haven't asked "Was there anything else causing a problem?" several times, you haven't gotten to the actual problem. And the situation you're in is not one that would really reward your probing, as far as I can tell. Just be grateful he gave notice--many people wouldn't have done as much--and let it go.

Yeah, I've been in the sales business on a very personal level for one year straight myself and know this to be true as well. When people don't want to talk about something, they generally blurt out a quick lie to get the discussion over with as soon as possible.

Consensus

2017-12-24, 02:07 PM

Haven't read the whole thread but I'm really shocked about people saying that even WANTING a greater explanation is someone wrong and that they don't deserve one. It's true you're not obligated to tell anyone anything but people are curious and feedback is helpful. If they left because they think you're a ****ty gm it helps to know why. If they think you're a ****ty person, again it helps to know why. I really don't know why people in this thread seem to think asking for a reason is some social misstep that should be punished with death, or that having no information is preferable to knowing whether its a real issue you can improve or just that you didn't mesh well ect.

ad_hoc

2017-12-24, 05:49 PM

We don't get to declare all the rest of society wrong just because we don't like it. :smallwink:

I understand that we live in a culture that doesn't respect consent.

Just because society is that way doesn't make it good.

Avonar

2017-12-24, 05:55 PM

It's true you're not obligated to tell anyone anything but people are curious and feedback is helpful. If they left because they think you're a ****ty gm it helps to know why. If they think you're a ****ty person, again it helps to know why.

Pretty much this. Maybe this is a case of not knowing the environment, this is my first time doing anything on Roll20, before I've always played with friends round my dining table. I don't think I'm a bad DM, but if I'm doing something that someone doesn't like I'd prefer they tell me so I can perhaps change it. Maybe he has had people who react badly to that before and become jaded, I don't know, but refusing to address the problem means that you never solve the problem.

And I reiterate, I didn't ask for a reason. With a message that brief it would seem he has no intention of going into any detail so I let it be. But I still reserve to right to think bad of him for how he went about it, regardless of reason. End of the day, I think I will run it by the players and then remove him from the game. I don't really fancy bringing his character back, he doesn't make too much sense as a villain with what I have planned, and I feel that playing him until the end of the dungeon could detract from the players a bit? End of the day the game is all about them, not the missing guy.

I understand that we live in a culture that doesn't respect consent.

Just because society is that way doesn't make it good.

Again, I understand he doesn't have to say anything. But surely you understand that the way you go about something can affect people? He is free to just leave with an abrupt message, I am free to think he's an arse because of it. Not sure why you're bringing consent into this, no one has ever said anything about trying to force someone to play?

If you do something that affects someone negatively, regardless of how much you are allowed to do it, it reflects badly on you.

Contrast

2017-12-24, 06:41 PM

Had a similar thing happen to a group I play in recently where someone didn't turn up and didn't contact anyone to say why. No further contact or response to messages. Mentioned it to a mutual friend as was worried something had happened to her and he said he'd heard from her the day before.

That's fine. I've already chased her and I won't pursue it further. If she expects to turn up for other sessions later on though I would expect a reasonable explanation for the lack of notice/communication (the actual reason for not attending not being important/relevant in my opinion).

On topic in terms of actual advice for OP - I've gone to games where we've wasted significant chunks of time or even full sessions dealing with characters of people who weren't there or trying to 'dramatically' kill off characters someone didn't want to play anymore. My advice is don't bother. Their character isn't there anymore. Anything plot critical/party purchased they were holding, someone else has. Everything else vanishes along with them.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-12-24, 09:02 PM

So, my first suggestion would be to ask the person what they'd like to happen to their character. If they don't care or don't respond (which seems possible, based on that note), ask the rest of the group how they'd like to handle it-- dramatic death scene, sudden nonexistence, fade-away, running out of the dungeon, whatever. It it winds up entirely up to you... I'd say have the party, as soon as possible, stumble across a hostage or something that needs to be escorted back to town. That gets the character out of the way quickly without really disgracing them or fiat-ing in a death scene.

goatmeal

2017-12-25, 11:01 AM

It seems I should clarify my point of view for a few of you.

I understand a person not wanting to play. I know that not every campaign and DM is for everyone, I've played with DMs where I don't like their style whereas others do, it's fine. And note that I have never stated I asked for an explanation, I wished the guy well and moved on.

But here's the thing. Using your analogy, if you have already agreed to a date with someone, I was clear from the beginning that this was an ongoing campaign, he knew what he was getting into, is it nice to say "I actually don't like you, bye." and leave it at that? You are perfectly allowed to, but it's a ****ty way to go about it.

I have no problem with a person leaving and not telling me why. If you are genuinely not liking the game, why not try and speak with the DM to fix it? And if there's another reason, surely you can at least take more than 5 seconds to send me a 5 word, mispelled message. There is a big difference between saying "Sorry, I don't think this game is for me." versus "i lost interst, farewell then"

But anyway, I will probably go for the remove him from existence route. Get it over and done with so we can focus on the player characters.

This response... I mean that's sort of how dating works: people are allowed to change their minds.

And you can't really pick someone else's words for them any more than you can their choices.

Knaight

2017-12-25, 11:25 AM

Eesh, there's a lot of advocating for straight and immediate death of the character rather than just having him disappear. Have his character be a permanent driver for the inevitable loot-wagon or something- no need to vindictively kill the character.
It's not a matter of being vindictive - it's a matter of clearing the character out of the party without spending time with them as a GMPC, retconning them out of existence, or retconning their personality such that they suddenly leave on a flimsy pretense. A change in the real world necessitated a change in the fiction, this is just a matter of making it smooth.

Yeah, I've been in the sales business on a very personal level for one year straight myself and know this to be true as well. When people don't want to talk about something, they generally blurt out a quick lie to get the discussion over with as soon as possible.
Generalizing from discussions with salespeople (which are generally unwanted and open with trying to extricate) to all conversation seems pretty dubious.

Arkhios

2017-12-25, 11:40 AM

Generalizing from discussions with salespeople (which are generally unwanted and open with trying to extricate) to all conversation seems pretty dubious.

It's not just that, though. I have a lot of experience working closely with different kinds of people in their "personal spaces".

But the details are classified, due to professional confidentiality.

Besides (I'm sorry for a late addition), as a whole the sales business covers a lot more area than just sitting behind a desk in a store having only brief, maybe max. 10 minute discussions. Where I worked it took easily an hour or more per client. Plus all those clients approached/invited us, not the other way around, so the general idea of being unwanted doesn't really apply in my case.

Tanarii

2017-12-25, 12:23 PM

This response... I mean that's sort of how dating works: people are allowed to change their minds.
This side-discussion on giving explanations on leaving a gaming group does rather remind me of discussions about ghosting. :smallyuk:

The Shadowdove

2017-12-25, 02:49 PM

The party wakes from a long rest to find that he, while on watch, was slain! Or something terrifying, like petrified.

Battlebooze

2017-12-25, 03:39 PM

Been there, done that.

Sometimes you don't really feel like telling the GM you are not having fun and you doubt you will with their game. I've bowed out before with a similar short but sweet note.

You should be happy he said anything at all. He could have simply ghosted you and your game. Leaving a note means he at least thought you deserved a warning.

Armok

2017-12-28, 11:47 PM

Putting aside the moral debate raging on here, I think that a good way to handle it is to kick off the next session with him being slain in some fashion. I'm a fan of "he was secretly an intellect devourer!", though for something slightly less likely to destroy the entire party, you could have him be the target of an enemy that delights in ambushes like a bugbear, dark mantle or vampire.

LordCdrMilitant

2017-12-29, 01:46 AM

I wouldn't kill him.

Sometimes, players do want to come back, and it's nice for their character to still be there.

I just have them cease to be. If anyone asks, the character has been reassigned to a desk job sorting out paperwork. My players have joked that he/she turns grey and everyone else gets a message in the lower-left of their vision saying "PLAYER has disconnected".

Also, all things considered the message is pretty fair. "I lost interest, farewell then," does give a clear reason. It's terse and blunt, but I don't think it's rude. I wouldn't pry.

LaserFace

2017-12-29, 05:30 PM

Hoping that the vast amounts of experience here might be able to help me.

I'm currently DMing a campaign, and one of players has out of nowhere left. He didn't give any reason, didn't ask to change anything or make any suggestions, just a 5 word message saying he wasn't going to play anymore. So screw that guy. However it leaves me in an odd position as the party is currently in the middle of a dungeon with no real easy way to say "He leaves for X reason". Should I kill off the character? Would it harm the immersion for the other players to simply remove him from existence?

Any suggestions on what the best way to do this for the players is would be appreciated.

Yeah, it's awkward when someone just disappears like that.

If I feel the character doesn't really add anything, I don't even reference them anymore. They're gone. I don't grace them with a death, I don't say they left, they never were. Maybe some folks get some kind of satisfaction by brutally murdering the character, but I don't. I don't want to waste time on something that has nothing to do with the people actually playing at the table.

If I liked the character, or they were important in some way, or I otherwise think they could be useful, I keep them around as a NPC. Maybe they can have some interesting use, or fulfill some destiny, or die in a way that actually has meaning for the party. Having a character the players already know is a resource, regardless of whether or not it was spawned by someone who just left like a jerk. No need to waste it if you can do something cool.

Knaight

2017-12-29, 05:49 PM

If I feel the character doesn't really add anything, I don't even reference them anymore. They're gone. I don't grace them with a death, I don't say they left, they never were. Maybe some folks get some kind of satisfaction by brutally murdering the character, but I don't. I don't want to waste time on something that has nothing to do with the people actually playing at the table.
The people actually at the table are all playing characters who have interacted with this character extensively. They're probably playing characters who have changed in some way because of their interactions with this character, at least if the campaign has gone on for a while. They're certainly interacting with the setting as a whole, which thus far has probably not featured characters just vanishing into the ether for no reason, to never be thought of again. It's for these reasons that the character should be removed in setting somehow, effectively mirroring the reasons new characters are generally introduced in a fashion other than them just suddenly being in the party.

I wouldn't kill him.

Sometimes, players do want to come back, and it's nice for their character to still be there.
Resurrection magic is a thing in 5e, so it's not like this is necessarily an obstacle. With that said them appearing to be killed would also work pretty well, where they fall off a cliff into a raging river or something.

LaserFace

2017-12-29, 05:58 PM

The people actually at the table are all playing characters who have interacted with this character extensively. They're probably playing characters who have changed in some way because of their interactions with this character, at least if the campaign has gone on for a while. They're certainly interacting with the setting as a whole, which thus far has probably not featured characters just vanishing into the ether for no reason, to never be thought of again. It's for these reasons that the character should be removed in setting somehow, effectively mirroring the reasons new characters are generally introduced in a fashion other than them just suddenly being in the party.

Oh, I haven't read the whole thread and must have missed further context. I just assumed someone who just suddenly loses interest probably wasn't that closely tied to the game.

I guess it does come down to further details about what is or isn't reasonable. I think generally if they've been around for maybe a dungeon, they're basically nobody. If they've been around for a half dozen, then it deserves more attention than suddenly vanishing. I've just never heard of someone being a group long enough to make actually meaningful bonds, such that the party actually cares, and then just bail.