Zero-effort build

[rigsmal]

Can we build a character that can handle CR-appropriate challenges without taking any standard or swift actions? A character who puts in zero effort, who slumps to the ground at the beginning of combat, drools, does nothing—OK, maybe moves around a little—and emerges victorious anyways?

What options exist for such a concept, besides trivial answers like Leadership?

[Darrin]

Sounds like you might want to look at Tempest Stormwind's "Inevitable Nightmare" build. It uses the Aura of Perfect Order stance to avoid making attack rolls. You make one attack every round, and the stance makes your attack roll an "11". This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19967089&postcount=27) has the details.

[Necroticplague]

Nasty Gentleman builds can pull this off. They're basically Persistomancer that abuse Symbionts having the Share Spell ability to give their Symbionts either auras, or attacks of their own. Persistent Cloud of Knives while you have 10 symbionts means you can make 10 attacks per round as a free action. You can also use Dragon Breath to give your symbionts breath weapons. Lightning Ring also works.

[Zaq]

Persistent Cloud of Kn—


Nasty Gentleman builds can pull this off. They're basically Persistomancer that abuse Symbionts having the Share Spell ability to give their Symbionts either auras, or attacks of their own. Persistent Cloud of Knives while you have 10 symbionts means you can make 10 attacks per round as a free action. You can also use Dragon Breath to give your symbionts breath weapons. Lightning Ring also works.

Or, yeah, that.

Alternatively, doesn’t War Weaver get to cast a whole lot of buffs as a move action? Sufficiently extensive pre-buffing can help you earn your share of the XP budget even if you never really lift a finger in combat (it’s weird and slightly antisocial, but I know a thought experiment when I see one), and then following the letter of your “no standard or swift actions” rule leaves move actions open for more buffing.

Or, you know, a Kole Naerrin-style diplomancer who never needs to get into a fight and can talk their way out of anything (and whose best option upon initiative being rolled is usually to run away).

[daremetoidareyo]

you could take exotic weapon proficiency: footbow (races of the wild), and prone combat (complete warrior), and affix a bow blade to your footbow.

[Eldariel]

Jovoc [MM2] chain with non-jovoc Share Pain/Shield Other recipients walking around with any persistent damage effect will reflect an infinite damage zone around it so as long as it moves around everything non-tanar'ri around it automatically dies. One of the more powerful auras in the system. Ignores basically any form of damage avoidance/reduction/immunity to boot.

[Jormengand]

A drunken master with a long enough weapon (traditionally a spool of endless rope), combat reflexes, and a bunch of stuff that boosts attacks of opportunity and threatened area (notably mage slayer and possibly four knight levels) can get an attack of opportunity whenever anyone provokes within 500 feet, and no enemies can cast defensively in that area and it's difficult terrain for all enemies.

[Anthrowhale]

At high levels Persistent Cast in Stone with an amplified DC (Hathran, Cooperative Spell, etc...) is pretty devastating. There is also Persistent Lightning Ring for direct damage as a free action.

At moderate levels there are many auras that tend to deal with things like undead or evil outsiders. Celestial Brilliance (level 4) comes to mind due to the long duration and large area. Another example is Antimagic Field which can be used as a magic-denial system in cooperation with the rest of the party.

Retributive and charge effects are potentially effective. Sacred Item stands out to me---in certain campaigns if you cast it on ammunition in advance and give it to allies you'll do exceptional damage.

The real challenge seems to be functioning in this manner at low levels.

[AvatarVecna]

Basic idea I've got is a Wizard 5/Incantatrix X (as long as X is at least 3) who persists a ton of the "anyone attacking you takes damage" spells. I think most of those only apply to melee, or have a limited range, so you'll wanna throw in some ways to resist ranged attacks/magic/etc, but the gist of the build is a focus on reactive auras. it's important to not have always-on auras that just deal damage to those near you, since that could make the non-combat parts of your adventuring day a pain. If you can squeeze War Weaver into the build without cutting too much into your ability to persist lots of these spells, you can also put a bunch of them into your weave so that, when combat starts, you can trigger a whole bunch of spells to activate on yourself at once (and, as a bonus, all your allies).

A good Wizard 5/Incantatrix 3/War Weaver 5 build casts as a Wizard 12, can cast single-target spells of up to 5th lvl on himself and up to (Int) allies, and can have up to 4 5th lvl spells waiting to be triggered on all (Int+1) tapestry members with a single move action. So now instead of a character that doesn't have to do anything, you have a whole party that doesn't need to do anything! Any monster that gets close to them, or tries to attack them, or tries to grapple them, will end up taking tons and tons of damage.

[The Viscount]

If AoOs are on the table then a King of Smack style build would be well suited to this.

Two ways of note come to mind, both of them from the Serene Guardian Iron Chef round.

For a more reliable way Opsablepesia's system, which combines lots of gazes. Gazes require no action of your own (though you can also use standards to focus them). One can come from a Scorching Gaze elemental graft, and two gazes can come from 8 levels of binder, binding Geryon and Balam.

The second system is retaliation based like Guru Lahima, using Mantle of Flame, Dragon Shaman's Energy Aura, and the Holocaust Cloak to damage the enemy with fire every time they strike you. You can also use flame shield and a level of Binder to bind Aym. This one would need DR or some fast healing to last for very long, but it also requires no action of your own.

[TotallyNotEvil]

A Cat using the Flop line of feats?

[Zanos]

A drunken master with a long enough weapon (traditionally a spool of endless rope), combat reflexes, and a bunch of stuff that boosts attacks of opportunity and threatened area (notably mage slayer and possibly four knight levels) can get an attack of opportunity whenever anyone provokes within 500 feet, and no enemies can cast defensively in that area and it's difficult terrain for all enemies.
As far as I know, creature size affects reach, not weapon size. So even if you can wield a colossal greatsword, it still has 5ft of reach for a medium creature.

[nolongerchaos]

A naenhoon illumian Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch can Persist the spell Aura of Terror, and if combined with Black Lore of Moil and Fell Frighten, it lets the character deal negative energy to enemies within 15 feet and they have to save vs an auto panic that bypasses immunity to fear.

Conversely, Vow of Peace does almost the exact opposite...

[SirNibbles]

Basic idea I've got is a Wizard 5/Incantatrix X (as long as X is at least 3) who persists a ton of the "anyone attacking you takes damage" spells. I think most of those only apply to melee, or have a limited range, so you'll wanna throw in some ways to resist ranged attacks/magic/etc, but the gist of the build is a focus on reactive auras. it's important to not have always-on auras that just deal damage to those near you, since that could make the non-combat parts of your adventuring day a pain. If you can squeeze War Weaver into the build without cutting too much into your ability to persist lots of these spells, you can also put a bunch of them into your weave so that, when combat starts, you can trigger a whole bunch of spells to activate on yourself at once (and, as a bonus, all your allies).

A good Wizard 5/Incantatrix 3/War Weaver 5 build casts as a Wizard 12, can cast single-target spells of up to 5th lvl on himself and up to (Int) allies, and can have up to 4 5th lvl spells waiting to be triggered on all (Int+1) tapestry members with a single move action. So now instead of a character that doesn't have to do anything, you have a whole party that doesn't need to do anything! Any monster that gets close to them, or tries to attack them, or tries to grapple them, will end up taking tons and tons of damage.

Incomplete list of spells
__

Anything that attacks you takes damage:
Babau Slime (Spell Compendium, page 22); UAS, Touch, Grapple, and Natural Weapon only
Balor Nimbus (Spell Compendium, page 24); Grapple only
Body Blades (Spell Compendium, page 35); Grapple only
Fire Shield (Player's Handbook, page 230)

Anything near you takes damage:
Aura of Cold, Lesser/Greater (Frostburn, page 88)
Body of the Sun (Spell Compendium, page 35)
As the Frost (Player's Handbook II, page 101)
Positive Energy Aura (Spell Compendium, page 161); Heals nearby living creatures, damages undead- does not heal you

Live by doing nothing:
Magic Convalescence (Player's Handbook II, page 118); Heals you whenever a spell is cast within 20 feet of you
Vigor, Mass Lesser (Spell Compendium, page 229); Heals you and your allies every round; Persistable
____

Persist/Sculpt Spell (Cylinder)/Explosive Spell on Body of the Sun pretty much keeps anyone from staying near you. Every round on your turn, all creatures within 5 feet of you take 5d4 fire damage and are blasted away, falling prone (Reflex save for half damage and to prevent being knocked away/prone). It's not exactly optimised, but, then again, neither is not taking any actions in combat.

[Lans]

Does using minions count?

[Anthrowhale]

For a nonmagical approach, an attack of opportunity build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?163032-3-5-Curious-about-updates-to-a-build) could work well.

[RoboEmperor]

1. Stand there
2. The end.

Your spellcaster friends will use you to mob creatures before blowing all of you up with a fireball, use you to carry weight, cast aura spells on you so you slowly kill everything to death, use you as a shield from chargers or as a source of cover from ranged attacks, etc.

So just beef up your AC and DR I guess.

[Mr Adventurer]

...does the Drunken Master + Spool of Endless Rope trick work to make attacks at 500 feet?!

[Jormengand]

As far as I know, creature size affects reach, not weapon size. So even if you can wield a colossal greatsword, it still has 5ft of reach for a medium creature.

The drunken master specifically makes attacks with "long improvised weapons" as "reach weapons according to their length". Ordinarily, the size of the weapon doesn't matter, but drunken master makes it matter, meaning that yes, they attack at 500 feet. This used to be fairly well-known cheese, particularly with the knight thing.

[SirNibbles]

The drunken master specifically makes attacks with "long improvised weapons" as "reach weapons according to their length". Ordinarily, the size of the weapon doesn't matter, but drunken master makes it matter, meaning that yes, they attack at 500 feet. This used to be fairly well-known cheese, particularly with the knight thing.

"Improved Improvised Weapons (Ex): A drunken master of 4th level or higher can use long improvised weapons (such as ladders) as reach weapons according to their length"
- Complete Warrior, page 28

"A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, allowing the wielder to attack at that reach but not within its normal reach." - Rules Compendium, page 150

"No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big." - Rules Compendium, page 151

__

Based on my reading of the texts, Drunken Master may only allow long weapons to qualify as reach weapons, i.e. weapons which simply double your reach, even if they're 500 feet long.

[Jormengand]

"Improved Improvised Weapons (Ex): A drunken master of 4th level or higher can use long improvised weapons (such as ladders) as reach weapons according to their length"
- Complete Warrior, page 28

"A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, allowing the wielder to attack at that reach but not within its normal reach." - Rules Compendium, page 150

"No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big." - Rules Compendium, page 151

__

Based on my reading of the texts, Drunken Master may only allow long weapons to qualify as reach weapons, i.e. weapons which simply double your reach, even if they're 500 feet long.

Specific trumps general - "According to their length" quite clearly trumps "No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big".

It's like citing the standard ASF rules to argue that a bard gets ASF in light armour.

[SirNibbles]

Specific trumps general - "According to their length" quite clearly trumps "No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that is too big".

It's like citing the standard ASF rules to argue that a bard gets ASF in light armour.

My interpretation of that was "if they're long enough to provide reach (according to their length), they provide reach as a normal reach weapon would".

[Jormengand]

My interpretation of that was "if they're long enough to provide reach (according to their length), they provide reach as a normal reach weapon would".

But it already says that only "Long improvised weapons" do that. That's the part of the text saying they have to be long. The reach length is a reach length in accordance with the weapon length.

[daremetoidareyo]

My interpretation of that was "if they're long enough to provide reach (according to their length), they provide reach as a normal reach weapon would".

drunken master text overshoots that reading when he is using a 50 foot ladder. the minimum reach distance would be 20-25 feet away, if the monk is wielding it in the middle. Drunken master is just that good.

in a strict RAW reading, I'm with jormengand. your interpretation is the likely compromise for 95% of improvised weapons, but the player eventually finds your adamantium chamber door, and you have to do a post adventure reminder of encumberance, and hope the thief doesn't give him a bag of holding.

[Mr Adventurer]

Yeah, given that weapon length doesn't normally grant reach, 'according to their length' doesn't make sense to grant extra reach to me.

[jmax]

Hold the ladder from the middle and use it as a double-quarter- half-staff? :-P


Strictly by the definition of "no swift or standard actions", a malconvoker (or any other summon-focused class) would work, but only because those are full-round actions. That's probably not actually intended.

(Somewhat?) More plausibly, be a Thaumaturgist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/thaumaturgist.htm) 5 with at least ECL 12 (figuring out how to advance is left as an exercise for the reader) and get a Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm) for your Planar Cohort. Then sit back and relax while Gail the Ghaele does all your work for you. She'll likely be more effective than most of the party through 14th level and then still competitive for a few levels beyond that even if your DM won't allow her to stack cleric levels on top of her cleric spellcasting.

Note that the latter option does require you to cast a single spell at least once. However, that spell (planar ally) is most definitely not a standard or swift action :-P

[Reprimand]

A Barbarian/Fighter that invests in a decent wisdom or gets mental protection of some kind and fights conservatively. As long as you don't Leroy Jenkins an encounter with a save or die mechanic you will do okay. stay by your party and protect the squishy caster dudes.

Planning & Tactics > Raw Stats (There are exceptions)

Get a +30 ring of climb and be the ladder covenant. Basically just troll enemies by blocking their climbing path while your allies pick them off and you don't care because you have a cleric helping you out or prebuffed you with immunity to spells your party is using. TROLOLOLOLOLOL.

[jmax]

A Barbarian/Fighter that invests in a decent wisdom or gets mental protection of some kind and fights conservatively. As long as you don't Leroy Jenkins an encounter with a save or die mechanic you will do okay. stay by your party and protect the squishy caster dudes.

Combat reflexes, high Dex, a reach weapon (preferably spiked chain, but a halberd will do just fine) and carrying a caster on your shoulders ought to at least protect one caster from most melee harm. Plus the caster will love you for doing his move actions for him.

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/409872_1280x720.jpg

[Reprimand]

Combat reflexes, high Dex, and carrying a caster on your shoulders ought to at least protect one caster from most melee harm. Plus the caster will love you for doing his move actions for him.

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/kgo/images/cms/409872_1280x720.jpg

Yeah but it's easy to forget triggers on AoOs. So it can take some focus.

[jmax]

Yeah but it's easy to forget triggers on AoOs. So it can take some focus.

That's a player problem, not a character problem. Even then, worst-case scenario, you're still providing a valuable service by being a mount for the caster. You just happen to be a mount that also eats XP :smallbiggrin:

[Jormengand]

Yeah, given that weapon length doesn't normally grant reach, 'according to their length' doesn't make sense to grant extra reach to me.

It's precisely because weapons don't normally give extra reach according to their length that the drunken master specifically has to give you the class feature saying that your weapons do give extra reach according to their length, though.

"According to their length" is not synonymous with "If they are long" - and the text already says they have to be long anyway - it's synonymous with "In accordance with how long they are".

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about an Ankholian Undead Juju Zombie Blightspawn druid 7/talontar blightlord 1?

Juju zombies spread the Blightspawn and Juju Zombie templates by attacking, turning afflicted creatures into plants, which then become undead. Ankholian Undead spread the template through their breath weapon and fire aura, and also create spawn. Playing (or Wild Shaping into) a swarm lets you attack and spread the Blightspawn/Juju affliction simply by being in an area, and should preserve the fire aura that spreads the Ankholian template. Together, you get a self-replicating series of templates that take no actions to spread. If your animal companion is also a swarm, so much the better.

Your animal companion gets the Blightspawn template for free, thanks to Blightlord 1; you'll have to suppress your own immunity to disease (also from Blightlord 1) to gain the template yourself, but when you do, it should be free of LA.

The big downside is that the base creature > Blightspawn > Juju Zombie phase takes several months, so most of the things you kill will be regular zombies with the Ankholian template. If you take special care, you can get the much stronger Juju Zombies, but they won't be under your command (they will also never attack you, thanks to Blightlord 1).