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View Full Version : The Linear Guild - PCs or NPCs?



LM TR
2007-08-22, 05:38 AM
what do you think, is the LG a DMīs tool or a second group of players that are opposing the first one (OOTS) in the same game, you know like they play some sessions together and some they donīt

Spiryt
2007-08-22, 05:51 AM
There are no players at all, there is also no DM. Pretty obvious, but to make it clear I will find post where Giant himself is stating that.

It may take a while, beacuse it was quite long ago.

Setra
2007-08-22, 05:55 AM
They're people!

Soylent Green is people!

Orzel
2007-08-22, 06:00 AM
All adventuring moving parties level 10 or up are composed of PCs. Lower level are backstory. Stationery are NPC and monsters.

Skyserpent
2007-08-22, 07:09 AM
I was pretty sure this whole comic was merely a ploy about characters who live in a world governed by D&D rules and are not necessarily represented by players. I mean, some of this stuff is really hard to actually Roleplay and other stuff is downright unrealistic. PCs are the main characters for the following reasons:

NPCs do not tend to change
PC Classes are simply more interesting than NPC Classes.
A Player will more likely relate to a PC than an NPC.

However, unlike other gaming comics, the "PCs" while aware that they are "Player Characters" Only classify themselves as such simply because that might be just what the world calls "Adventurers" I mean, there's a ridiculous number of 'em in this world. As seen in many of the books hanging around taverns. The closest RL equivalent to the OotS world would be something like the RPGA or an MMO. PCs are everywhere, this isn't just one groups gaming session.

EDIT: Oh, and paying for the Pizza does not earn XP here...

boomwolf
2007-08-22, 07:25 AM
i think they are NPC.
after the "evil counterparts" is done SO many times its like a joke on DnD...

Emperor Ing
2007-08-22, 07:29 AM
My vote is...
EnnPeaSeas.
no wait..recurring villans!

BisectedBrioche
2007-08-22, 10:20 AM
i think they are NPC.
after the "evil counterparts" is done SO many times its like a joke on DnD...

I thought OotS is a joke on D&D

Icewalker
2007-08-22, 11:28 AM
There are no players or DM, no, as there has been no evidence pointing to such.


I disagree with the 'NPCs don't change' part. In the best of campaigns, the NPCs are easily as malleable as the PCs, I consider this to be partially true for OOTS and the Linear Guild. As such, I would say they are basically 'the evil party'. Primary group of recurring villains that face down against the good guys, some groups eventually build up enough recurring villains swearing to kill the PCs that they start to team up.

LM TR
2007-08-22, 05:28 PM
but of course there are players and an (invisible) DM
how should they otherwise be able to argue and talk about levels, checks and all the other stuff
it wouldnīt make any sense if Rich would explicitely state there arenīt

ChopSticks28
2007-08-22, 05:45 PM
Let's not forget that Nale is Elan's brother, so it's valid to assume hes a PC too. Don't know about the others, even though it's pretty obvious that they are PC's.

chibibar
2007-08-22, 05:46 PM
I do not understand why people keep saying that NPC don't gain level... they do gain level (Shojo is a level 14 Aristocrate... I think that is right)

All my NPC gain level.

Mr.Ace
2007-08-22, 05:54 PM
I believe Nale, Zz'dtri, Sabine, and Thog are/were all 'PCs'.

((Zz'dtri because of the pure commoness of a eleven-year old child making a Drizz't clone))

Duh. :sigh:

Yoritomo Himeko
2007-08-22, 06:03 PM
There are no players or DM, no, as there has been no evidence pointing to such.


While there is no one controlling them, the OOTS refer to themselves as "PC's". They never mention their players or any DM, but they are aware of rules, levels, and classes.

And there is even a book called "Origin of the PC's", which is all about the OOTS.

Querzis
2007-08-22, 06:26 PM
While there is no one controlling them, the OOTS refer to themselves as "PC's". They never mention their players or any DM, but they are aware of rules, levels, and classes.

And there is even a book called "Origin of the PC's", which is all about the OOTS.

Yes...so? What you just said just make me think there is no players even more. The OOTS arent the only PC in the OOTS world so unless you think there is a dozen party of players, the PC in the OOTS world are nothing more then adventurers or people with a PC class. Of course they are aware of D&D rules, levels and classes just like everyone in the real world is aware of the rules of our world. Its just how their world work really and I have been talking about levels, rules and classes several time while I was still in character in D&D session and I dont see the problems. Your characters should be aware of those things since its how their world work. Hell, Roy even got through the fighter college where he learned everything about feats, attacks of opportunity and skills. Its just the physics of their world.

There has been no indication of players or DM whatsoever which would be frankly impossible by now if there was really any players, just think about your normal D&D session. Just go check Goblins too, even though its unclear with Minmax and Forgat, the goblins obviously dont have any players or DM but are still aware of rules, class and such. Or video games parodies like 8-bit theaters, once again obviously there is no player but the character are still aware of the rules, class and levels.

Anyway, the LG are PC.

Yoritomo Himeko
2007-08-22, 06:38 PM
Yes...so? What you just said just make me think there is no players even more. The OOTS arent the only PC in the OOTS world so unless you think there is a dozen party of players, the PC in the OOTS world are nothing more then adventurers or people with a PC class. Of course they are aware of D&D rules, levels and classes just like everyone in the real world is aware of the rules of our world. Its just how their world work really and I have been talking about levels, rules and classes several time while I was still in character in D&D session and I dont see the problems. Your characters should be aware of those since its how their world work. Hell, Roy even got through the fighter college where he learned everything about feats, attacks of opportunity and skills. Its just the physics of their world.

There has been no indication of players or DM whatsoever which would be frankly impossible by now if there was really any players, just think about your normal D&D session. Just go check Goblins too, even though its unclear with Minmax and Forgat, the goblins obviously dont have any players or DM but are still aware of rules, class and such. Or video games parodies like 8-bit theaters, once again obviously there is no player but the character are still aware of the rules, class and levels.

Anyway, the LG are PC.

My point was that's what they refer to themselves as, "PC's". It's just a name for them. Rich himself has said there are no "players" or a "DM" controlling them. They are adventurers who live in a world with D&D physics. They are not part of any game.

We call the main characters "PC's". We call the supporting characters "NPC's". And we call the villains "DMPC's" because they are there to thwart the good guys.

But they are aware that they live in a webcomic.

Spiryt
2007-08-22, 06:48 PM
I always thought of OOTS as "What if the world really worked in accordance with the D&D rules (and fantasy cliches)?" So yeah, I never think there are actually players behind the characters, but it's a common assumption, given the gaming point of view. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=856766&highlight=players+characters#post856766)

I found it, so I will post it, just for quote.

Tirian
2007-08-22, 07:34 PM
In this interview (http://sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=467), Rich compares and contrasts between DMing a campaign and writing a webcomic. I don't know to what degree it is fair or interesting to say that OOTS is a campaign where he is the only participant and we are seeing the transcripts. Probably not very, because it is obviously funnier than a game transcript would be, but he does talk about how occasionally the PCs make choices that he didn't expect them to, and then he has to figure out the ramifications.

Me, given the degree to which the fourth wall is at -9 HP and bleeding, I think that there are only six PCs in the history of the world and we're looking at them right now. Indeed, one might claim that the root of Nale's psychosis is knowing that his pathetic twin brother is inexplicably gifted with a higher order of being.

Kish
2007-08-22, 07:49 PM
And we call the villains "DMPC's" because they are there to thwart the good guys.


I agree with everything else you said, but that's a definition of "DMPC" quite contrary to any I've heard before.

Xykon, Redcloak--oh, yeah, and the Linear Guild, too--are simply NPCs and villains.

Feralgeist
2007-08-23, 05:07 AM
Yes...so? What you just said just make me think there is no players even more. The OOTS arent the only PC in the OOTS world so unless you think there is a dozen party of players, the PC in the OOTS world are nothing more then adventurers or people with a PC class. Of course they are aware of D&D rules, levels and classes just like everyone in the real world is aware of the rules of our world. Its just how their world work really and I have been talking about levels, rules and classes several time while I was still in character in D&D session and I dont see the problems. Your characters should be aware of those things since its how their world work. Hell, Roy even got through the fighter college where he learned everything about feats, attacks of opportunity and skills. Its just the physics of their world.

There has been no indication of players or DM whatsoever which would be frankly impossible by now if there was really any players, just think about your normal D&D session. Just go check Goblins too, even though its unclear with Minmax and Forgat, the goblins obviously dont have any players or DM but are still aware of rules, class and such. Or video games parodies like 8-bit theaters, once again obviously there is no player but the character are still aware of the rules, class and levels.

Anyway, the LG are PC.

in goblins, there IS a DM. That's what the dwarven cleric prays to. the players are those drizz't clones that respawn as another party

Ancalagon
2007-08-23, 05:56 AM
LG are NSC. The PCs are OotS, *all* other chars are NPCs. It is that simple.

And yes, there is no GM and there are no players, but still... the PCs (even when there are no PCs) are the heroes of the game. Do not try to approach this with logic. The setting that the heroes, the OotS, are PCs without players and others are NPCs without GM does not make *any* sense in normal roleplaying terms. Accept it as it is and see it as practive in "alternative thinking".

Querzis
2007-08-23, 07:51 AM
in goblins, there IS a DM. That's what the dwarven cleric prays to. the players are those drizz't clones that respawn as another party

Yeah, those are players and we know there is at least one DM until now but the goblins still dont have any players or DM. Everyone in their village died and they decided to take PC class to be able to fight back the adventurers and thats all.

Wrecan
2007-08-23, 09:22 AM
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/Wrecan/Nale.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0253.html)

I think that makes them NPCs.

Alysar
2007-08-23, 09:48 AM
in http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/giant.png's own words (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=856766#post856766):


I always thought of OOTS as "What if the world really worked in accordance with the D&D rules (and fantasy cliches)?" So yeah, I never think there are actually players behind the characters, but it's a common assumption, given the gaming point of view.

NerfTW
2007-08-23, 11:52 AM
Considering there were about 20 PC's shown in OtOoPCs, I think PC is just used in place of "hero". There's no "players" behind them, they're simply anybody with a PC class who goes out and adventures. The Order of the Scribble would also be PCs. Nale's group are villians, not PC's, as described by Roy in Cliffport.

And as noted in Cliffport, there are more PC's than just the OoTS, or else the police chief wouldn't have been complaining about former adventurers.

Ecalsneerg
2007-08-23, 12:24 PM
The OotS are PCs, because they refer to themselves as such. I'd say the Linear Guild are PCs running an evil campaign in the same setting. Xykon and Redcloak follow the more usual route of being BBEG and Minion. Although, Redcloak does obviously rock more.

There are more PCs in the world. They congregate in taverns and kill kobolds... yeah, you know who I'm getting at :P But, since this isn't actually a D&D game, we are shown only the 'IC' stuff, and thus PC is as NerfTW put it, another word for hero in the OoTSverse.