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View Full Version : Player Help Contractual Advice for a Chainlock



PartyChef
2017-12-26, 10:20 AM
So this is a call to anyone on the forums with a law degree or experience with logic and programing.

My group is doing a small side campaign and they needed a party face with some scouting abilities. I normally detest the warlock (EB spammers) but I think I have came up with a way to make on interesting. Here it is:

He is the youngest son of a noble family, sent away to be educated as a solicitor to help run the family business. He is frankly not terribly good at it but has picked up a few things in school and thinks he is rather proficient. As such he has made a deal with the forces of hell, thinking his grasp of contractual obligations and the lawful nature of devils will allow him to get the better end of any bargain.

We are starting at level 3 so the main feature of this is his imp familiar. The familiar is an evil little monster sent to this world to inflict as much harm on the material plane as possible. However, it is bound by its lawful nature and its oath to serve me. Each time I summon it, I have it agree to a contract in order to stay on this plane. I will literally be writing this contract. The imp will follow it to the letter, but actively seek loopholes or mistakes that will allow it to do anything destructive, corrupting, or generally evil. If I catch it doing this, I will banish/kill it, revise the contract, and summon a new one. Rinse and repeat.

Needless to say, the DM is super excited about the opportunity to look for ways to screw with myself and the party.

My appeal to you guys is for various clauses in the contract that I can start with or add as problems arise. My initial thought was to adapt Aasimov's three laws but I am not sure if that is to encompassing to begin with.

Unoriginal
2017-12-26, 10:36 AM
So this is a call to anyone on the forums with a law degree or experience with logic and programing.

My group is doing a small side campaign and they needed a party face with some scouting abilities. I normally detest the warlock (EB spammers) but I think I have came up with a way to make on interesting. Here it is:

He is the youngest son of a noble family, sent away to be educated as a solicitor to help run the family business. He is frankly not terribly good at it but has picked up a few things in school and thinks he is rather proficient. As such he has made a deal with the forces of hell, thinking his grasp of contractual obligations and the lawful nature of devils will allow him to get the better end of any bargain.

We are starting at level 3 so the main feature of this is his imp familiar. The familiar is an evil little monster sent to this world to inflict as much harm on the material plane as possible. However, it is bound by its lawful nature and its oath to serve me. Each time I summon it, I have it agree to a contract in order to stay on this plane. I will literally be writing this contract. The imp will follow it to the letter, but actively seek loopholes or mistakes that will allow it to do anything destructive, corrupting, or generally evil. If I catch it doing this, I will banish/kill it, revise the contract, and summon a new one. Rinse and repeat.

Needless to say, the DM is super excited about the opportunity to look for ways to screw with myself and the party.

My appeal to you guys is for various clauses in the contract that I can start with or add as problems arise. My initial thought was to adapt Aasimov's three laws but I am not sure if that is to encompassing to begin with.

Just add a "You are not allowed to act in any way that has a chance to be detrimental to me, as defined by my standards." clause, a "you are not allowed to let your inaction or omission be detrimental to me or my allies, as defined by my standards" clause, and a "you are not allowed to act in any way that as a chance to be detrimental to others, unless you are explicitly ordered to do so by me and only once you've explained to me what you were planning to do, in detail."

Naanomi
2017-12-26, 10:41 AM
Just add a "You are not allowed to act in any way that has a chance to be detrimental to me, as defined by my standards." clause, a "you are not allowed to let your inaction or omission be detrimental to me or my allies, as defined by my standards" clause, and a "you are not allowed to act in any way that as a chance to be detrimental to others, unless you are explicitly ordered to do so by me and only once you've explained to me what you were planning to do, in detail."
As a legalistic imp, I’d take that contract as a way to do absolutely nothing except endlessly talk to you about the horrible things I am planning to do, in excruciating detail, looking for your approval before I act (which I never will, always needing more explanation and approval). Everything has a chance to hurt someone

Unoriginal
2017-12-26, 10:48 AM
As a legalistic imp, I’d take that contract as a way to do absolutely nothing except endlessly talk to you about the horrible things I am planning to do, in excruciating detail, looking for your approval before I act (which I never will, always needing more explanation and approval).

Good. That way the Warlock is shutting down someone who's trying to hurt him, permanently. I call that a win.

Seriously, though, you're not going to win against a Devil in legalistic matters if you allow it to do anything. Sorry to say, OP, but that bargain of yours will likely end up with your familiar being useless or actively hindering you.

Naanomi
2017-12-26, 11:06 AM
Good. That way the Warlock is shutting down someone who's trying to hurt him, permanently. I call that a win.

Seriously, though, you're not going to win against a Devil in legalistic matters if you allow it to do anything. Sorry to say, OP, but that bargain of yours will likely end up with your familiar being useless or actively hindering you.
Well, except for the endless noise that it would generate, and the visuals of the imp endlessly talking to you... both hindrances to normal adventuring sometimes

Since the Imp is supposed to be a... you know... bonus that you gave up other class abilities for... as a GM I would make the 'contract' a background piece that is long, detailed, and mostly effective at making your Imp useful. Having to actually spell out the contract doesn't feel like it would lead to anything useful at the table for me, though attempting to write one can be a fun thought exercise (that I'd never use at the table).

tieren
2017-12-26, 11:08 AM
Confidentiality Clause:
Imp will keep its existence, and the existence of this agreement secret and confidential except as to those individuals specifically identified by warlock.


It won't do to have him broadcasting his service or the forced nature of it. For instance if you told him to turn invisible and go steal the guards keys and he screamed the whole way "invisible imp here trying to steal those keys you have right there".

Non-compete clause:
Imp shall not enter into the service of any being entity or creature within a distance of 1000 miles of warlock with any hostile intent as to warlock personally for a period of one year following the termination of the imp's service to warlock. During the one year period the Imp shall not obey any order given it to directly harm injure delay or disadvantage warlock. Similarly, Imp shall not during the exclusionary period attempt on its own to seek retribution revenge or recompense for any injuries losses or insults suffered by it during the service to warlock.

Non-compete clause needs to be reasonable as to geographic range and length of time to be enforceable.

Arbitration Clause:
In the event of any dispute between Imp and warlock regarding the enforceability or interpretation of this agreement all such disputes shall be resolved by binding arbitration performed by [pick being you prefer so you don't end up arguing over it in hell]

General tips:
Be careful with the words "shall" and "may".
In the definitions section clarify general terms to be interpreted under the reasonable man standard and not the reasonable imp standard.

Naanomi
2017-12-26, 11:30 AM
Confidentiality Clause:
Imp will keep its existence, and the existence of this agreement secret and confidential except as to those individuals specifically identified by warlock.
Imp refuses to be summoned. When tracked down: "Hey, half the guys I know can see invisible stuff. Plus I breath heavy. Just playing it safe, you know?"

Mortis_Elrod
2017-12-26, 12:05 PM
I’m currently reading some web fiction that you might want to check out called Pact.

Anyway there’s a great deal of deal making going on and at one point main character needs to write out a contract for the purposes of binding an imp.

I’ll link it because it’s hard enough trying to copy/paste and exclude dialogue

https://wp.me/p4b8kL-6c

willdaBEAST
2017-12-27, 12:13 PM
I agree that Asimov's laws for robotics might be a good starting point:

1. An imp may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. An imp must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. An imp must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

You may want to alter the first law, since there may be times that you want your familiar to harm a human and you'll probably want to replace "human" with "humanoid" or "creature".

A variation might be, "An imp may not injure or, through inaction, allow a friendly or innocent living creature to come to harm without express commands to the contrary."

Clarifying who can give those commands is also important. Do they only come through you? Party members, NPCs?

I think you're on the right track of having to start with a relatively simple contract, like Asimov's laws, that you are forced to repeatedly amend.

Millstone85
2017-12-27, 12:27 PM
Asimov's first two laws basically amount to "Obey, except when you know better what's good for them".

You are programming the thing to take over. Which is exactly what happens in the novels, I think.

The_Jette
2017-12-27, 12:32 PM
I agree that Asimov's laws for robotics might be a good starting point:

1. An imp may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. An imp must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. An imp must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

You may want to alter the first law, since there may be times that you want your familiar to harm a human and you'll probably want to replace "human" with "humanoid" or "creature".

A variation might be, "An imp may not injure or, through inaction, allow a friendly or innocent living creature to come to harm without express commands to the contrary."

Clarifying who can give those commands is also important. Do they only come through you? Party members, NPCs?

I think you're on the right track of having to start with a relatively simple contract, like Asimov's laws, that you are forced to repeatedly amend.

You might also want to amend it to "friendly towards (caster/party/etc)" since the Imp might consider any demons, or other evil creatures, friendly towards itself as they're on the same side. Then, the Imp can just not attack anything unless given express orders to do so.

Dappershire
2017-12-28, 03:23 AM
It doesn't have to be deviltry. Fae types are an option. They are just as loophole seeking; but with slightly less chance of savoring the crisp taste of your fiancee's flayed skin.

Plus, they will actually be affected by my tried and true familiar technique. Kill it. Summon it. Murder it. Summon it. Hammer it. Summon it. Let something eat it (alive). Summon it. Spear it. Summon it. Into a boiling pot of pain. Summon it. Let it beg. Kill it. Give it some time. Summon it. Murder it. Summon it. Let it ask you what, for gods sake, you want from it. Tell it. Make it agree. Kill it a few times just to make sure.

Feel free to casually crucify it at the beginning of random rest periods, to keep on top, and spook any visitors.

JackPhoenix
2017-12-28, 05:37 AM
A variation might be, "An imp may not injure or, through inaction, allow a friendly or innocent living creature to come to harm without express commands to the contrary."

Of course I murdered him! What do you mean about the contract? I'm a devil, I don't have friends. No, not even you. And nobody is innocent.

SirGraystone
2017-12-28, 09:33 AM
A variation might be, "An imp may not injure or, through inaction, allow a friendly or innocent living creature to come to harm without express commands to the contrary."

A sneaky DM will always find loophole if he really want to.

"Of course I killed the group rogue, he wasn't friendly he stole your bottle of wine"
"The group barbarian yelled at you, that's not friendly at all"
"The cleric didn't heal you first, I'm sure she was secretly trying to kill you"

Naanomi
2017-12-28, 09:57 AM
A sneaky DM will always find loophole if he really want to
Or a regular GM roleplaying a sneaky imp... a creature from Baator, a land where subverting contract expectations is literally a matter of survival