Juggernaut Application: A guide to Tanking (updated)

[Twizzly513]

Apologies for lateness and misunderstandings. I’ve included more options, and hopefully this is passable. If I’ve missed anything or failed to correct any mistakes, please let me know.

Inspired by Specter’s Social God guide, I have imagined creating the perfect character not just from a class standpoint - no, I shan’t sully myself with such thoughts - from the standpoint of accomplishing and being the best at one role. The tank is where I shall begin - and hopefully not end, if this goes well. Now, onto what you came for: How to become the unkillable cockroach.

Sometimes the tank gets a bad rep for being stupid. Y’know what’s really stupid?
Dying.
Let’s learn how not to do that while staring down the wizard, saying “This is what happens when you don’t have a d6 HD.”

Overview
The tank is the keystone of any party. Someone needs to get the enemies’ attention, and, most importantly, live to do it again. Just so we’re all on the same page about what the Tank’s objectives are, let’s list the ways a tank keeps damage off other people.
Getting yourself to be the target of attacks, rather than squishier, wimpier people like rogues or wizards. Lots of abilities and tactics will cause this.
Punishing people who don’t target you, because standing there and hoping your presence is enough to provoke hostiles usually doesn’t work (unless you manage to get your Charisma low enough). Note that not all punishment is damage.
Actually being able to take punishment, because dying isn’t your job; leave that to bards and monks and such. Again, note that not all punishment is damage. This includes HP, AC, and saves.

Color Rank
Gold: Mandatory if you expect to call yourself a tank. Terrific
Sky blue: Phenomenal. You’ll want this
Blue: This is pretty good
Black: Not bad, and even helpful in some cases
Purple: Too situational to be helpful, or just a hair above red
Red: If you have this, why are you here?

Equipment
Any form of ranged weaponry: If you’re far away you are much less likely to be targeted by the enemy. Keep in mind that you should have some sort of ranged weapons to use in the event of a ranged fight. Tanking is cool, but in a firefight you need to have something be useful with. Javelins for Str, choice of bow for Dex.
Two-handed weapons: This is great for damage. You don’t deal damage. On the contrary, some classes promote higher damage die, such as barbarian, and weapons with the reach property are great for a sticky build. You will lose some AC from choosing this (especially at higher levels with magic shields), but depending on the build and class features, using these can be worth your while.
Dual wielding: It’s melee, but it uses a bonus action. Many tanking abilities use your bonus action. You don’t want this.
Sword and board: This is what you’re looking for. The one weapon loadout that naturally increases your AC! Ideally you’d be using a rapier with a shield. Dexterity is better than Strength for defense, due to saves, AC (for some strategies), and defensive duelist. Season to taste, you won’t miss out on too much with a different weapon. Most of this will assume a Str build, since they’re more common, although if it works for a Dex build, I’ll say so.

Stats
Strength: Not necessary for tanking, but used for most melee builds, which is what you’re doing. You’ll need either this or Dex, because everyone needs to have Athletics or Acrobatics. If you’re doing a Dex build, this still is important because heavy armors have Str requirements. Anyone choosing medium armor, I give you:
Dexterity: Common save, and you could be using it for AC. If using a Dex build, this is second priority, otherwise, it’s just alright.
Constitution: This is why you came. The only stat that directly increases tank-ability in any build.
Intelligence: Dump unless you’ll be playing eldritch knight.
Wisdom: Common save. You’re tanking takes a serious dip when you fail one of these. Get it as something positive and you should be fine.
Charisma: Honestly you might do better being a mute. Not a common save, and you shouldn’t be talking. If you want to multiclass with paladin, put it at 13 and never look back.

Races
Here’s what we want to look for in our races, I won’t list it unless it has the following:
Constitution bonus
General defensive capabilities


Hill dwarf: This is great! +2 Con gives you extra HP, you have an ability that gives you extra HP, and dwarven resilience!
Mountain dwarf: Dwarven resilience and +2 Con is great. You get a bonus to Str as well.
Stout halfling: This is good for a Dex build, in which case it becomes blue.
Human: Pass. Not a lot to gain here. Why add something to your dump stats at the cost of useful racial traits?
Human (variant): +1 to two traits is all you really need, and a feat at level 1 (like, say, Tough) is amazing.
Dragonborn: +2 Str is okay, and resistance is good. No Con bonus and a weapon with a fast drop off should be keeping you away.
Rock gnome: +1 to Con is good, but Int is likely going to take a dump. Eldritch knights get a nice blue here.
Half-elf: You probably don’t want Cha. You shouldn’t need many skills, either. Paladins get blue.
Half-orc: You get some nice tanky features and a bonus to Con and Str. Not bad at all
Aasimar overall (no rating here): So Charisma isn’t great unless you’re taking levels in paladin, in which case bump up all scores by 1, but they all get a nova ability that’s nice and some okay features overall.
Protector: You get a +1 Wis which isn’t bad, and flight is situationally very helpful. Unfortunately no really good features keeps this at black.
Scourge: +1 to Con is good
Fallen: +1 Str isn’t bad either, but still not enough to put it at a higher ranking.
Goliath: Bonus to Con, an ability that lets you ignore damage, and some Str makes this a very solid choice.
Lizardfolk: +2 Con is great! Bonus to Wis for saves is nice. The other features are either pretty meh or are going to most likely be rendered useless by other tank things. (I’m looking at you Natural Armor)
Triton: Bonuses to Str and Con is nice, and there’s Cha if you want it. There are some decent control spells, as well. Not specific to tanks, but not bad to have in the right situations.
Hobgoblin: +2 bonus to Con is awesome for any race. In addition, you get a feature that helps to hit on an attack, which can mean life or death when your abilities key off of hitting an opponent (which most of yours do). Sky blue for eldritch knights
Goblin: +1 to Con, but nothing else you want
Orc: Not a bad ASI, and an ability that helps you close space to enemies faster, which is good
Duergar: You get the nice dwarf benefits, but it goes downhill from there.
Air Genasi: +2 Con isn’t bad, but none of these features help you much. Blue for Dex builds.
Earth Genasi: +2 Con with +1 Str isn’t bad either. Earth walk can be situationally quite useful, but you don’t really need or want stealth for this kind of build.
Fire Genasi: +2 Con, but Intelligence doesn’t help most builds. Resistance to a common damage type and a couple spells bump us up. Sky blue for eldritch knights.
Water Genasi: +2 Con, and +1 Wis doesn’t hurt. Resistance to an uncommon damage type and very situational spellcasting can’t bring it up to blue.
Tortle: No Con increase, which sucks. Str and Wis might be stats you’re using. The kicker here is from Natural Armor. 17 AC is nice, especially at 1st level without carrying anything. Add in your shield and your AC can be pretty high. If you’re playing a class with heavy armor proficiency, this is purple. If you’re playing a barbarian, this is blue.

Skills
Athletics: This or acrobatics is pretty much a requirement, and grappling is good. If you went Str take it, if you went Dex, don’t.
Acrobatics: If you went Dex then you’ll need this. Not being able to grapple is regretful, but not terrible.
Sleight of Hand: Not your job
Stealth: You should want to be found. If some other (wimpier) party member needs to not be seen, be a distraction.
Intelligence skills: Not your job
Animal Handling: Not your job, and not very useful anyways
Insight: Not your job, but not a bad skill to have.
Medicine: Not your job unless you’re a life cleric, in which case use a spell.
Perception: Always good to have proficiency here
Survival: Not necessarily your job, but you might end up there anyways, depending on class.
Deception: You did dump this right?
Intimidation: Take it if you can. You could use Str with it, as per the PHB, and being mean to people is part of your job regardless.
Performance: Now that’s something I’d like to see. I’m just kidding. Don’t take this skill.
Persuasion: Not your job

Strategies
There a lot of different ways to tank. I originally misread the rules, which led me to the idea one way was the best, but with the loss of this one paradigm path, many other strategies surface. Primary strategies talk about classes you take the most levels in, and are more about what you’ll be doing with that class. Secondary strategies discusses good class to dip into for some levels that will improve your tanking. All primary classes can be used as secondary classes as well. If you use secondary classes as your primary, you will be able to pass as a tank, but you will be weaker than primary strategies. You could take one primary and two secondaries if you wanted. Mix ‘n’ Match to your liking.

Primary Strategies
Barbarian x/Something x
Barbarians are widely accepted as the best class for HP tanking due to the effects of Rage. This build focuses on high HP and class features to tank, without much outside help from spells and such. A powerful build, but lacks a high AC without work for it. A Dex build is highly suggested for this. Hill dwarves, variant humans, and air genasi are top picks. You mainly want Dex to add to AC more than the other benefits. Str builds will deal more damage (unless you multiclass with Rogue), however, so if you don't have many other ways to get yourself to be a target, damage is one of them. Keep this decision in mind, either can work. If you choose to play a Str build, Tortle isn’t a bad option, despite the lack of Con. Barbarian x/Fighter x is a solid choice due to the fighter’s many tanking features at low levels. Remember spellcasting does you no good here. Barbarian is restrictive, but quite powerful.

Fighter x/Something x
Fighters are also a five star tank. High AC and good HP keeps them high, and most of their class and subclass features add to the tanking strategies in battles. Str or Dex builds work for fighters. Dex builds can make you a little MAD (it’s worse if you go eldritch knight) due to Str requirements for heavy armor, but if you bump down to medium armor you can dump Str and be okay. Str builds will give you higher AC here, but you sacrifice the Dex benefits discussed in Stats. Make a choice and stick to it, although my suggestion would be Dex. Barbarians have a bit on using medium armor if you choose that. Speaking of which, let’s chat about Fighter x/Barbarian x. If you are using heavy armor or are an eldritch knight, don’t waste your time with this, you won’t get anything out of it. If you chose medium armor because of Dex and happen to not be an eldritch knight, this is a great choice! Eldritch knights theoretically multiclass well with other spellcasters, but the fact is you’ll be making yourself even more MAD. The only spellcasting class that wouldn’t cause that is wizard, and I talk about them under Class Analysis.

Paladin x/Something x
Many of the paladins abilities center around buffing yourself as well as others, allowing you to tank more than the average bear. Smarter enemies might target you because of this, dumber enemies probably won’t understand. The first thing you should know about paladin is that it is more versatile than other tanks. The spells it has allow for battlefield control, healing, damage, etc. Other primary tanks might be better at straight tanking, but paladins can fill a few roles secondarily on top of tanking. Dexadins are a common build, but if you plan on multiclassing in instead of starting, be aware of the prerequisite of 13 Str and Cha.

Secondary Strategies
Keep in mind here that for all of these, you must qualify for their score requirements as necessary.

Something x/Rogue x
Rogues are a lot better at tanking than they seem. They don’t have a big hit die and not as much potential at higher levels, which keeps them as a secondary, but with uncanny dodge, evasion, cunning action, and grappling potential, it’s a solid choice. A low level dip will feel fairly weak compared to other tanking options, but once you hit 5-7 you’ll be well off. Above that won’t give you anything worth your time. Barbarian x/Rogue x can lead to amazing grappling as well as being able to sneak attack on your own at no cost. Taking levels in rogue can lead to many tanks becoming secondary strikers. Requires a 13 Dex.

Something x/Cleric x
Clerics get a lot at low levels, making them a popular dip for most builds. It’s no different here, and even 1 or 2 levels in cleric can make a big impact on playstyle. It’s usually not worth it to go to 6, although depending on your build and party composition it could be fine. The subclass you pick is the real deciding factor of if it is worth it, so I’d recommend having a subclass in mind when you pick this for your character. Class Analysis is there for that reason. Taking levels in cleric can turn tanks into secondary leaders/buffers. Requires a 13 Wis.

Something x/Druid x
Druids are good for this when you take the circle of the moon. Otherwise you shouldn’t be taking this class. Circle of the moon druids can essentially gain a large amount of HP at once, and it doesn’t harm their normal form. Twice per short rest can add up to be quite a lot. It’s a bit of a one-trick pony for tanking, but it’s effective and taking the druid levels gives you plenty of utility. You could even play a barbarian x/druid x and turn into your totem animal. Keep in mind you need not concentrate on animal forms and class features are retained in animal form, so this is a viable and powerful option. Requires a 13 Wis.

Class analysis

Color Rank for Class analysis
Sky blue: A great class choice/Primary class
Blue: Better than most options/Secondary class
Black: You should be ignoring this as an option entirely

Barbarian
One of our three primary classes. For dips, take 1 if you just want rage, 3 for a path feature, or 6 for a second path feature. There are features in between that are nice, but if you’re planning to use a different class as your primary, you probably shouldn’t go past 6, maybe 7 for feral instinct. If you multiclass, here’s what you miss out on, per level.
20th: Primal Champion for top notch stats and unlimited rages. Pretty solid. Keep in mind that pure barbarian is a good tank, but you’ll miss out on features elsewhere.
19th: Just an ASI
18th: Being able to take your Str as a total for a Str check. Epic, but doesn’t help with tanking.
17th: Better brutal critical, but we don’t care about damage, right? An additional rage, however.
16th: Just an ASI. And a bonus to Rage Damage. How do we feel about damage, though?
15th: Persistent Rage
14th: The capstone for your path
13th: More brutal critical

Path of the Berserker: The main draw of this subclass is the damage it provides. We’re not looking for damage so we’re passing right on by.
Path of the Totem Warrior: You get resistance to almost all damage types at 3rd level, which is great for survivability. Nothing special again until level 14, however. Great for a short dip into barbarian.
Path of the Ancestral Guardian: Guardian is right in the name. Right off the bat you punish people for targeting people other than you with a really good ability. After that you get to lessen damage that other people take, further punishing people for targeting others. After an intermission at 10th level you now punish people MORE for attacking anyone other than you. Probably the best straight tank subclass here. Lots of reaction-taking, however, so be wise with that.
Path of the Storm Herald: The only way to go here for tank is tundra, really. That said, it’s not a bad choice. Starts off with you giving yourself and others temp hp with a bonus action. It’s only 2, but it gets higher, and it can happen every turn. Keep in mind, here, that temp hp does NOT stack; your allies will only ever get that amount of temp hp. Resistance to cold isn’t awesome, but after another 4 levels you can give your allies resistance to cold as well. At 14 you can freeze people in place, which is a solid ability.
Path of the Zealot: Choose one of the above 3; this doesn’t help towards tanking.
Battlerager: Damage on grapples is nice, temp hp on a feature you’ll be using every turn anyways is nice, closing distance to people is nice. The subclass is a great tank, but many of the features take a hit on utility at higher levels as their values mean less and less. Still a great choice.

Bard
Bards are good for smashing. So are you, but the difference is bards die when they get smashed and you don’t.

Cleric
Note for barbarians that Channel Divinity works just fine in rage.

Knowledge Domain: Nothing for a tank here
Life Domain: Check for heavy armor, and healing increases everybody’s survivability.
Light Domain: You’re not a blaster
Nature Domain: Nothing you’re really going to want here.
Tempest Domain: Has heavy armor, useful domain spells, and an ability that punishes people for attacking you. Punishment for attacking you doesn’t sound great, but assuming you have enough to deter people from attacking your buddies, maybe they’ll just run away.
Trickery Domain: This is a bad idea.
War Domain: Heavy armor, an extra attack when you haven’t got a use for your bonus action, and a bonus to attack rolls. Not too shabby compared to most of the subclasses. The domain spells pretty nice, too.
Forge Domain: The features just aren’t helpful for anyone
Grave Domain: For tanking, only good at higher levels.
Arcana Domain: Booming blade/green flame blade and some defensive features are nice. Not as sparkly compared to other blues, but still worth noting. Best with 1 or 2 level dips.

Druid
Druids are nice secondary tanks and augment any build well. The only circle you should be picking is the Circle of the Moon to be a tank. You have to take at least 2 levels, taking 4 will get you access to giant octopus (most HP for CR 1), 6 gets you magic weapons in beast form and up to CR 2. Take your pick.

Fighter
Your choice of Defense or Protection fighting styles here. I’d personally go with defense because if you’re meleeing a creature with a friend, chances are you’re flanking, not within 5 feet of each other. Defense applies 100% of always, and you won’t be using reactions to do things. Mileage varies depending on DM and party tactics, however. For dips, either take the 1 level for fighting style and second wind, 2 levels for action surge, 3 for the archetype. You could potentially go to 4 for a sweet ASI/feat. Depending on archetype, you may go to 7 for a feature. Here’s what you’ll miss out on if you dip out of fighter:
20th: The final extra attack. Why are you dealing damage anyways?
19th: Just an ASI
18th: The capstone for you martial archetype. You probably shouldn’t plan on getting this anyways.
17th: An extra action surge and an extra indomitable might. Solid buffs
16th: ASI
15th: A martial archetype feature. How much this will hurt depends on which subclass you are.
14th: ASI
13th: An extra use of Indomitable

Champion: Never was awesome, and you don’t want or need damage anyways.
Battle Master: Not a lot of tank capability at first glance, but at second glance it’s quite good. I wouldn’t go for the 7th level here. If you want two more maneuvers take the martial adept feat. For battle maneuvers: Disarming Attack, Evasive Footwork, Goading Attack, and Parry would be my choices when at 3rd, although switching one out for a different one to help party synergy wouldn’t be bad. From there, play it by ear, because you could use most of those to help out your friends. This subclass doesn’t get as good of tank stuff at higher levels, so if you plan on going a lot of fighter I might look at other subclasses.
Eldritch Knight: Eldritch knight is a good tank. Shield will be one of your best friends, and that will give you a nearly unrivaled AC, even if you took medium armor. If you took heavy, boy are you in for a treat. There are also some solid buffs that give you or your buds some nice effects. Since they can choose various wizard spells, they also can excel at battlefield control.
Arcane Archer: Remember how we don’t like archery? Yeah, that.
Cavalier: This is a phenomenal way to go. Unwavering mark gives you some amazing punishment for others attacking anything but you. Put this on top of the Ancestral Guardian punishment and you can seriously lock someone down. Get to 10th so that you reduce speed to 0 on an AoO and you can take a creature out of a fight. Cavaliers are one of the best tanks.
Samurai: I wouldn’t. I came very close to making this blue, but the only “tank” feature it gets is at 3rd, and it’s not great.

Monk
You won’t really gain anything from this. You just get a lower hit die and some odd utility benefits.

Paladin
Our third and final primary class. When dipping into paladin, levels 1-3 are all good choices depending on what you’re looking for from it. Going all the way to 6 or 7 would get you some auras that are amazing no matter what level you’re at. If you’re dipping out, here’s what you miss per level:
20th: Your capstone feature where you go nova with holy power
19th: ASI
18th: An upgrade to your subclass aura. Ancients would like this, but other subclasses won’t feel too bad missing this
17th: 5th level spell slots unless you multiclassed with a full caster like druid or cleric
16th: ASI
15th: A feature from your sacred oath
14th: Cleansing touch, which is a godsend when you need it
13th: 4th level slots unless you multiclassed with a full caster

Oath of Devotion: Sacred weapon is helpful. You don’t need the damage, but being able to land more hits makes people notice you, at the least. This is also quite helpful when you have abilities that key off of actually hitting people.
Oath of the Ancients: A solid subclass, and the aura is unmatched.
Oath of Vengeance: Advantage on attack rolls can be situationally useful for you, although the kicker here is the 7th level ability, once again. If going to 7th, this is sky blue.
Oath of Conquest: Frightening people isn’t good, but getting a bonus to an attack roll in a clutch moment is. The aura makes this sky blue if you go to 7th.
Oath of Redemption: You don’t talk much, but you do like punishing people for hitting anyone other than you.
Oath of Crown: Good spells, good channel divinity, amazing 7th level ability. For a lockdown tank this is absolutely godlike.

Ranger
Rangers don’t have a wimpy hit die, but they don’t bring much to the table. Don’t go here.

Rogue
For dips, you’ll want either a low level or high level dip. Taking 2, 5, or 7 is the recommended points. 2 for cunning action, 5 for uncanny dodge, and 7 for evasion. If all you want is expertise with athletics for grappling, take 1 and you’re fine. For subclasses, they don’t help you much; you want the main class features, but here they are anyways.

Thief: Nothing that will help you here
Assassin: Not really for a tank. If you’re looking to be a secondary striker, this is blue.
Arcane Trickster: The utility puts this at blue, but know that it doesn’t help much in combat.
Inquisitive: Nothing to gain
Mastermind: You get an ability that helps support in combat, which makes this a great choice.
Scout: Skirmisher allows you to move a lot more, letting you be where you want to be in a fight.
Swashbuckler: You shouldn’t be too worried about opportunity attacks, but if your Cha is positive this is nice. You also get a reliable source of Sneak Attack damage.

Sorcerer
Smallest hit die and no tanking benefits. Move on.

Warlock
Not the smallest hit die, but still no tanking benefits. I’m getting the feeling maybe arcane casters aren’t supposed to tank.

Wizard
Only thing with potential is taking 2 levels of abjuration wizard for the arcane ward. You have better uses for levels.

Feats
(We are once again assuming the normal color rank system)
Alert: +5 to initiative is cool for anyone, and you can’t be snuck up on
Defensive Duelist: Higher AC often is great if you chose to use a Dex build. Lots of things competing for your reaction is the only thing keeping this from sky blue.
Durable: Being back at higher health and a Con bonus is solid
Grappler: Keeping people down without hitting them can be situationally useful. This will vary on its power depending on campaign. If you’re planning on being a grappler anyways, then this is for you.
Heavy Armor Master: This is quite good at lower levels, but drops off as you go on. If you fight a lot of mooks you’ll really want this.
Lucky: Helpful for everybody. Make people hit you even less with this.
Mage Slayer: Mileage may vary depending on campaign. Take it if you know you’ll need it. Otherwise keep looking.
Martial Adept: This is nice to expand your options a bit. Taking Parry and Goading Attack would be my choices.
Medium Armor Master: If you have medium armor because you went Dex, take this. You add more Dex to your AC to bring you on par with heavy armor.
Mobile: More speed to close distance to people is good.
Resilient: You’re probably going Wis if you do this. Can’t go wrong there. If you’re taking this, make your Wis an odd number so this evens it out.
Sentinel: Black if you’re taking cavalier as a primary, but otherwise fantastic for tanking.
Shield Master: You have a shield, so you can get even more use out of it here.
Tough: Lots of HP. You want this for sure.

[Talamare]

Rogues should be Sky Blue

Expertise in Athletics to Grapple and Shove monsters to keep them in Place
Disengage or Dash as a Bonus Action, to improve your positioning and reach the targets that matter
Uncanny Dodge because declaring you take Half Damage from a particularly high damage attack is amazing
Evasion because one of the biggest threats to your survival is being targeted by a number of high damage save based abilities. Auto taking Half, and conditionally taking None is AMAZING
Reliable Talent let's make our Grapples and Shoves even more Reliable!
Blind Senses ... (does this allow you to ignore the penalty/disadvantage of being Blinded/Target being invisible? Let's skip for now)
Slippery Mind one of the biggest concerns is being locked down with CC spells, this fixes that
Elusive, Oh you're trying to use Advantage to counter me? Think again

Rogues have a ton of tools for Tanking
Completely dismissing them because of some preconceived perception of Rogues is wrong.

[Naanomi]

No Tortle? No battlerager? Oath of the Crown?

[Mjolnirbear]

Also Ancients paladin doesn't even rate blue? No other class will protect your allies from spells like that level 7 aura.

[Nothing Here]

This is the best tanker! try kill him!




BACKGROUND:

The Elder Evil prophecy, "The traditional world of magic will be destroyed when a child with blood-eyed be born. Such a child will have power to manipulate even the most powerful divine magic and able to control true arcane power, only the complete death of the child can prevent the end of the magic schools that protect the world "

The birth of the Nameless King was a disaster, his parents were killed by a sudden of pure arcane power. Peasants tried to kill the red-eyed, white-haired baby with a knife, but a shield of energy blocked the attack (Shield Spell). The development of the orphan baby was a mystery, but he survived without any love and affection alone in the world. His name was Lucius Threvor.


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Lucius Threvor

The beginning of the end:
The young elf was taken to necromancy school to understand his power. But, his personality strength and arrogance did not accept the way they learned magic. His inability to learn large numbers of spells and his way of manipulating magic challenged school leaders. Expelled and humiliated by Wizard Balther with 6 powerful undeads around him, he fled the big city and hid in the darkness. Though humiliated, he worshiped the dark and deep eyes of sinister magic.
In the darkness, the chaotic power began to manifest, but he did not surrender, control and mold to his pleasure. After defeating defeating some opponents, he created his first skeleton with his already decomposing body.
The power of necromancy Pulsing in your blood.


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Wrath of The Necromancer King

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With such power, he ventured into the depths, made powerful Pacts, and acquired powerful eyes that saw in the deepest darkness and powers ever imagined.
The villain loved to hide in the shadows as he watched his Undead devour the invaders of darkness.
When his power reached an unattainable level, he began mortal duels and learned defensive tactics and manipulation, Otherworldly Wings and the power of flying freely began to cause mass destruction.
Now with the bodies of the dead, he brought them back to serve him. Able to manipulate illusions, battle tactics and a legion of undead he destroyed and annihilated the school of necromancy, turning them all into new tools.
With his Temple, the surrogate ability to hide in the shadows and power of destruction he is advancing his troops to the end of those who abandoned him.
The ultimate power in his hand, he learns to manipulate the most powerful beings with such mastery that no other spellcaster would do.
After long years, his name has been forgotten and is now known as "Nameless King", the killer of Wizards.

He discovered the true power of his magical blood, The Blood Magic (Maho). The power of the villain still increases, when he kills a defenseless victim he becomes more powerful! The power of True Blood Sorcerer is coming!


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Blood Sorcerer

GOAL: The main objective of the villain is to acquire the artifact that allows to know the true names of Devils and Devils to use them to his pleasure and take Wave Conduit feature (level 30 sorcerer)



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Nameless King





"PRATICES AND STUDY ARE FOR AMATEUR. TRUE POWER IS A BIRTHRIGHT".
"Sorcerer King, Scion of Tiamat"




BUILD:

Nameless King (Divine Soul Sorcerer 17 / Hexblade 3)


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Medium humanoid (Wood Elf), Lawful Evil
Armor Class 31 (Shield +3, Robe of Archmagi, +4 Dex, +6 Charisma - Dragon Mask +1 Warding Bond)
Hit Points 135 (120 + Heroes' Feast)
Speed 30ft, Fly Speed 40 (30 +10 longstride)ft
Initiative +9 (+4 Dex +5 Alert feat)

Wood Elf (+2 Dex +1 Wis)
STR
8 (-1)
DEX
18 (+4)
CON
14 (+2)
INT
8 (-1)
WIS
8 (-1)
CHA
20 +2 (Tome) = 22 (+6)


Saving Throws Cha+13, CON +9, DEX +5 (Advantage against Spells and other magical effects) (+1 Warding Bond)
Skills Stealth +20 (+6 Proficiency +10 Pass without trace Spells + 4 dex, Darkness/Invisibility Advantage), Sleigh of Hand +10 (+6 proficiency +4 Dex), Perception +5, Acrobatics +10 (+6 proficiency + 4 dex)


Damage Resistance: All damage (Simulacrum's Warding Bond)
Immunities: Poison, Divination, Charmed, Frightened, Psychic Damage, Fire (Dragon Mask)

Senses passive: Perception 15, See invisible
Magic Resistance: The Nameless King has advantage on saving
throws against spells and other magical effects.

Spellcasting:

The Nameless is an 17th-level Sorcerer and 3rd-level Warlock. Its
spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 22, +14 to hit
with spell attacks).

Cantrips (at will):.Eldrich Blast, Mage Hand, Blade Ward, Prestidigitation, Guidance, Minor Image, Toll of Dead, Sacred Flame
1st level (4 slots): Cure Wounds (free), Sanctuary, Longstride (feat bonus)
2nd level (3 slots): See Invisible, Silence, Earth Bind, Pass without trace (feat bonus), Warding Bond
3rd level (3 slots): Counterspell, Revify, Anime Dead, Major Image, Magic Circle, Guardian of Faith
4th level (3 slots): Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, Death Ward
5th level (3 slots): Planar Binding
6th level .(1 slot): Planar Ally
7th level (l slot): Teleport
8th level (l slot):
9th level (l slot): Wish


ACTIONS
Ranged Weapon Attack (Oathbow): +15 to hit, reach 600 feet, one target. Hit: 64 (1d8 +6 +3d6 +3 Purple Worm Posion (DC 19, 42 average damage) piercing damage.

Itens:
+3 Shield
Robe of The Archmagi
Periapt of Proof against Poison
Staff of Swarming Insects
Purple Worm Poison
Dragon Mask

Feature and Spells know:

Some Background Feature
Font Of Magic (17)
Metamagic
MM: Distant Spell
MM: Twin Spell
MM: Heightein Spell
MM: Subtle Spell
Divine Magic
Favor Of The Gods
Empowered Healing
Otherworldy Wings
Pact Magic
Invocation
Eldritch Spear
Repelling Blast
Pact of the Blade
Hexblade's Curse
Hex Warrior
ASIs: Spell Sniper, Alert, War Caster, Wood Elf Magic
Warlock 4 Spells Know
Sorcerer 15 Spells Know



Don't know about Coffeelock ?
Find here[/url]

The Villain Active Spells:
Well, the DM was pretty clear. Coffeelock keeps steath and buffs when start an Attack/Defense . This is Coffeelock's signature. Then, Death Ward, Contingency: Teleport, Sanctuary, Mirror Image, See Invisible and any other Spell Know. If the spells are over, he returns to his Temple of Gods for Short Rest.




Coffeelock 2.0

Heroes of the Orient, pg 10.
Now Coffeelocks can regenerate 5+ spell level. This is dangerous and expensive. With access to Greater Restauration (Via Simulacrum or Summons) or Legendary Resistence (1/day). This is so important to never need sleep again.
This is even more powerful for a Coffeelock villain where he can accumulate Hit Dice and get more and more powerful! The world needs to stop the advance of death!

Blood Magic
Blood magic, or maho as it is also called, is perhaps the most seductive
and effective tool of evil in the Orient. Maho wielders, or maho-tsukai, have
served the will of the Shadowlands for centuries, both within the empire
and without. While the Phoenix Inquisitors and Snake Clan Bailiffs have
dedicated themselves to purging maho from the empire, it is often those
most dedicated to its eradication who are most likely to find themselves seduced
by its power.
And it is power, most often, that seduces, for maho is an easy path to
tremendous magical power. Young shugenjas frustrated at the slow pace at
which their power grows, old scholars chafing at the limitations of their elemental
magic, peasant folk-magic practitioners - for all these spellcasters,
maho offers a way to overcome obstacles that the sanctioned magic of the
empire cannot provide.
A creature that succumbs to maho becomes a slave of evil and the
Shadowlands. The maho can be a great basis for an adventure in the Orient,
and might even lead a group of adventurers into the Shadowlands
themselves.
Maybe the clans have been so effective at combating the maho, that
it has been centuries since the last maho-tsukai, in which case the maho
might be considered myth, rather than fact. Similarly, there might have
been no activity within the crawdad-patrolled outer reaches of the Shadowlands
for centuries, reducing the prestige of the Crawdad Clan, and lowering
the guard of all clans against the Shadowlands and it’s Taint.

PC’s and the Maho
It is okay if a PC becomes tempted by the maho. A PC who can cast spells,
can draw upon the maho to gain certain benefits, which might help turn
things around in the here and now, but will have dire consequences in the
long run.
A PC can gain the following benefits by drawing upon the maho:
• Expend a hit die and add it to an attack’s attack and damage rolls
• Expend a hit die and regain a used spell slot with a spell slot level
equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier
• Kill a defenseless creature to gain an additional hit die, which lasts
until the creature’s next long rest
Whenever a PC draws upon the maho, he must attempt a DC15 Wisdom
saving throw. On a successful save, the PC can draw upon the maho
without any physical or spiritual consequence, although his or her reputation
might suffer if the act is witnessed. On a failed save, the PC becomes
paralyzed and enters a catatonic state. The paralysis lasts for 24 hours, after
which the PC awakens as a slave of evil, and now no longer a PC. The
PC’s personality is effectively gone, as the maho has taken over, making the
character an NPC.
Friends and fellow adventurer’s should use the 24 hours of paralysis, to
locate spellcasting services, as a greater restoration or wish spell can pull
the afflicted PC back from the maho.
After each saving throw against the maho (whether success or failure),
the DC increases by 1, and cannot be reduced again by any means, making
it increasingly hard to resist the maho with each attempt. Additionally, with
each use of maho, the character gains 1 to it’s Taint score (see the “Taint
Score” section later in this chapter).
A character that succumbs to the maho is called a maho-tsukai. Several
cults exist that practice maho. These cults are often small and contained,
rarely having more than twenty members. The most powerful (or sometimes
the most charismatic) is usually the leader of a cult, and they rarely
have knowledge of other cults.
In your game, a particularly powerful or charismatic maho-tsukai, could
potentially try to unite the different cults, spelling disaster for the Orient, if
the cults aren’t stopped by brage heroes.




Direct Combat tatic:


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/9a/d1/3f/9ad13f8cdab4b0a83699dbfcbcbfe1d1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/49/4d/2c/494d2c60b578c1b8038dd4a7d9a49e0a.jpg


The NK and his Simulacrum is flying 1200' way and/or Stealth (+20 Stealth check and advantage, Darkness or Invisibility). We have 2 concentration spells at same time. Twin Invisibility and Pass without trace.

The NK's Attack:

1) Long Range: Distant Metamagic + Spell sniper feat + Eldritch Spear (1.200 feet range) + Repelling Blast (Each hit, 10 feet away, WOW 80' repelling per round is really cool effect) and Heightein Sanctuary (It's a bonus action). If the enemies is close enough, he casts Distant Dimension Door (1.000 feet).
His Nightmare Mount prepares an action (Etherealness): When a hostile creature uses a spell or an attack.
Making the target automatically miss the attack or his spell.
This ensures that the villain is always protected against attacks.


Warding Bond spell turns the villain into a true tanker.
135 HP, 36 AC (31 BC + 5 Summon's Cover), Resistance against all damage, Death Ward, Advantage against spells, Immunity to fire, Contingency : Teleport, Clone, True Ressurection (Ki-rin summon, inside the temple), Legendary Resistence (1/day)

For example, the only thing capable to hit the villain at 1200 'is Meteor Swarm, but, this is a joke:

- The wizard can not identify the villain and spends his single Meteor Swarm against Major Images or Alter Self (Arcanaloth). The villain begins to laugh at the poor Wizard.

The villain has advantage against spell and can add 2d4 to saving throw (favored of the gods) and is immune to fire: The average damage would be ridiculous 15 damage, if he fails he only receives 30 damage. But of course it is virtually impossible to identify him and hit him before you be easily killed by him.

- Nightmare's Etherealness: makes his Meteor Swarm or any effect fails.



2) Medium Range: If the enemies is within 600', The Simulacrum casts Distant Earth Bind. If Earth Binded, NK's Silence Spells is devasting against spellcasters. The NK ignores silence effects with subtle spells.

The Simulacrum prepares an action against targets that reach the range 600' (Teleport or flying): Ranged Attack (67 average damage per hit) = You lost your concentration and are down on the ground again (If you were flying, you fell automatically).

Simulacrum can deal 254 average damage with 4 shots


3) Short Range: Also, Simulacrum's Distant Silence + NK's Wish: Force Cage (Trapping the enemie and the NK) is a deadly sentense.

- If the enemy approaches or teleports, it will be affected by multiple Guardian of Faith (22 DC, 20 radiant damage or 10 if succeful), this kills the enemy instantly.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b9/66/5e/b9665e7e8c99591e860732af10dc9ff8.jpg
Guardian of Faith

- Nameless King's Subtle Wish: Antimagic Field + Simulacrum's Ranged Attack (257 average damage + Knock Prone).

- The Nameless King is immune to grapple (Freedom of Movement) and has +10 acrobatic check.

- If you teleport close enough, you can be counterspelled normally and takes shots of Simulacrum (65 average damage per shot + 2d6 necrotic damage + Automatic Knock Prone (Are you flying? No) + Genies prepared actions

- The Ki-rin Prepares a action against any intruder you try approach enough (Teleport or Flying): It casts Silence and uses Legendary actions to detect enemies around. Also, inside the temple: Ki-rin casts Guardians of Faith and true ressurection if the NK is dead. Also, Ki-rins casts Major Image at will (Permanent).

- The Genies prepared action against any intruder you try to approach enough (Teleport or Flying) :
Djinni (120', Creat Whirlwind DC a DC 18 Strength saving throw or be restrained by it), Djinni also creats Major Images (DC 17) to confuse the enemie. A Djinni cast continually Creat Whirlwind against the Nameless King (He is immune, Freedom of Movement), If the enemies tries attack him in melee range is affected by Whirlwind.
Marid (60', Water Jet DC 17, 21 average damage and Knock prone). BLINDSIGHT 30'
The Genies are always alert, trying find an enemies around.

- The YUGOLOTHS They are used to kill Spellcasters and confuse the enemy. :
Arcanoloth:
Innate Spellcasting. The arcanaloth's innate spellcasting ability
is Charisma (spell save DC 15). The arcanaloth can innately
cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: alter self, darkness, heat metal, invisibility (self only),
magic missile

The most effective tactic is to use Alter Self (Copying the Nameless King), this is NOT ILLUSION.
Spellcasting. The arcanaloth is a 16th-level spellcaster. Its
spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit
with spell attacks). The arcanaloth has the following wizard
spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): .fire bolt, mage hand, minor illusion,
prestidigitation
1st level (4 slots): detect magic, identify, shield, Tenser's
floating disk
2nd level (3 slots): detect thoughts, mirror image, phantasmal
force, suggestion
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, fear, fireball
4th level (3 slots): banishment, dimension door
5th level (2 slots): contact other plane, hold monster
6th level (1 slot): chain lightning
7th level (1 slot):.finger of death
8th level (1 slot): mind blank



Innate Spellcasting. The nycaloth's innate spellcasting ability is
Charisma. The nycaloth can innately cast the following spells,
requiring no material components:
At will: darkness, detect magic, dispel magic, invisibility (self
only), mirror image



True sight : 120'

Hypnotic Gaze. The ultroloth's eyes sparkle with opalescent
light as it targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. If
the target can see the ultroloth, the target must succeed on a
DC 17 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed
until the end of the ultroloth's next turn. The charmed target is
stunned. If the target's saving throw is successful, the target is
immune to the ultroloth's gaze for the next 24 hours.

Innate Spellcasting. The ultroloth's innate spellcasting ability is
Charisma (spell save DC 17). The ultroloth can innately cast the
following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: alter self, clairvoyance, darkness, detect magic, detect
thoughts, dispel magic, invisibility (self only), suggestion
3fday each: dimension door, fear, wall of fire
1fday each: fire storm, mass suggestion


Commune (Obvious uses) + Control Weather (Disadvantage perception check!)

High damage and free stun, Immunitybludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from
nonmagical weapons


Innate Spellcasting. The ki-rin's innate spellcasting ability is
Charisma (spell save DC 17). The ki-rin can innately cast the
following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: gaseous form, major image (6th-level version), wind walk
1/day: create food and water
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If the ki-rin fails a saving throw,
it can choose to succeed instead.
Magic Resistance. The ki-rin has advantage on saving throws
against spells and other magical effects.
Magic Weapons. The ki-rin's weapon attacks are magical.
Spellcasting. The ki-rin is a 18th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting
ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 17, +9 to hit with spell
attacks). It has the following cleric spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): light, mending, sacred flame, spare the dying,
thaumaturgy
1st level (4 slots): command, cure wounds, detect e11il and good,
protection from evil and good, sanctuary
2nd level (3 slots): calm emotions, lesser restoration, silence
3rd level (3 slots): dispel magic, remove curse, sending
4th level (3 slots): banishment.freedom of movement, guardian
of faith
5th level (3 slots): greater restoration, mass cure wounds, scrying
6th level (1 slot): heroes'feast, true seeing
7th level (1 slot): etherealness, plane shift
8th level (1 slot): control weather
9th level (1 slot): true resurrection


If the enemy tries to use get cover (Although, Undeads destroy any kind of cover), the villain will be stealth and the Undeads / Army of Darkness will attack them.
While the NK is steath, it can freely use his illusions and Subtle Spells

Feeblemind or any save or suck : NK is protected by Heightein Sanctuary (Disadvantage 22 DC). Also, The Nameless King has acess to Greater Restauration Spell and Staff of Swarming Insects (No button and no concentration! You can't see him) and Programmed Illusion. Also, Major Image Spells (Permanent) and Alter self (Arcanoloth and Ultroloth duplicating Nameless King) can be problematic, if you try.

Globe of Invulnerability and Antimagic Field: The Simulacrum uses Oathbow (+14 attack roll + Advantage + 1d8 piercing + 5 Dex + 3 Munition+ 3d6 piercing damage) + Purple Worm Posion (DC 19 or take 42 average damage) + Eldritch Smite (+2d6 + automatic knock prone) + Hexblade's curse = 77 average damage per shot + Advantage, crit range 19~20. Dangerous + Minion's attack.







Indirect Combat Tatic:

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/65/ae/ac/65aeac83f3939302a36fe5395689284c.jpg



Master of Stealth, Dircord and Illusion:


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f2/34/ae/f234ae8a32cc4ce524d7a66af31398c0.jpg

The NK is able to create multiples Major Images (Permanent) around the battleground and can use stealth action to move them. Flying Images against enemies unable to fly and if they fly, They will be vulnerable. He also used Wish: Programmed Illusion on condition of being attacked directly. Distant Casting Minor Image is useful to creat panic.
This further hinders the enemy from going on an alpha strike, forcing them to spend their teleports and exposing themselves.
Of course, meanwhile the Undeads are hungry.
The Nameless King can steal material component bag and spellbooks with Stealth and Sleigh of Hand.


Necromancy:


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/af/93/1baf93957bce13aa0a2b1cf8da32c191.jpg



The Nameless King and his Simulacrum casts Animate Dead, creating a horde of Undeads. The Nameless King prefer Archers (Longbow and Purple Worm Poison, 42 average damage) and Low-level Mages:
Archers attack from long range and are always alert (It isn’t passive perception) with perception checks to detect any approaching enemy.
Low-Level Mages casts Earth Bind / Magic Missales/ HEX / Eldritch Blast / Entangle / Aid / Bless / Silence
Undead don't walk together, they have a space between them, so, they are not an easy target for area spells.
Undeads destroy any cover available on the battlefield, to make the battlefield as open as possible. No places to hide or run away.

Undeads can deal very high damage with Magic Missale / Hex + Eldrich blast and silencing everything.

PS: It's important to remember. The more powerful enemies are defeated, they are now Undead controlled by the villain. So there can be powerful high level Undeads. So be very careful.


The Nameless King is the best Necromancer of the entire game.


Army of Darkness:


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/99/39/53/993953c3de67cddf63a0c87745b558df.jpg


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/24/30/52/243052a70d10c6748d4cf4dde5b108e4.jpg

The villain is extremely efficient when summoning demons, as Lawful Evil villain is extraordinarily organized and tyrant.
Why is he better than the others? Simple, Heightein Metamagic and acess to Planar Binding and Planar Ally. The powerful fiends have an advantage over magic and are very powerful. At the same cost, the villain has the DOUBLE chance of being successful (Heightein Metamagic).

Undoubtedly, this is the most dangerous part of Villain. However, it is easily overcome.
The villain uses Magic Circle (Heigher Level), every hour the villain applies multiple times Heightein Planar Binding (Heighter Level) against Empyrean until winning.
The villain prepared the group of fiends to defeat the Empyrean, if necessary.
First he summons the Coualt, Fiends, Genies and then the Empyrean.

The villain will summon multiple creatures (as much as possible) and use them only in strategic and extreme cases.

The main tactic of the Fiends is to remove any synchrony between the group, to catch the attention of the group while the villain observes the perfect time of the attack. The fiends mages are efficient for counterspell and magic missiles, they are also invisible.


Fiends

- Arcanaloth:
- Alter self: Duplicate Villain at will, Invisibility at will, Magic Missale at will, MindBlank, Counterspell (Amazing against spellcasters) and others.
- Ultraloth dispel magic at will, Mass Sugestion, Invisibility at will and others
- Witches
- Nycaloth
- Nightmare (Free Etherealness)

Celestials:
- Couatl: Greater Restauration and suporting
- Empyrean
- Planetar: Comune and Control Weather
- Ki-rin : Silence, Major Image, Guardian of Faith, True ressurection.

Elemental
- Genies : Special tatic


Premises:


- Do not ignore the villain's defenses. How did you identify the true? How did you bypass Sanctuary? Is your character able to see the enemy? How to perceive the presence of the enemy? How did you defeat the Undead perception checks ? How to know the location or who is the enemy?

- Unearthed Arcane is disallowed (Obviouly).

- Wish dependent on DM approval, does not work.

- Teleport (Chance to fail) + Save or Suck (Counterspell) does not work if you do not respond how you beat the villain's defenses.

- The temple of the gods is very well hidden and its location is not obvious (you need be able to locate it), Mighty Fortress + Temple of the Gods work well together and the entire temple is protected by permanent Wall of Stones. Inside the temple has the most powerful Undeads and Fiends ever alert. Inside the Temple is a Clone Spell.


https://i.pinimg.com/564x/80/60/84/806084c5b05e866258ec7f966bee7594.jpg
Temple of Gods - Blood Magic's Sacrifice

- All villain equipment has Instant Summon Spell.

- All as permanent and long lasting spells were casted previously and not at the time of battle: Programmed Illusions, Major Images, Planar Binding and others

- Meta-game is not allowed, you (Player) knows the character's build, but not your character. So your character needs to be able to know about villain information. Otherwise, your tactic will NOT be valid.

[Relbin]

I’m confused...is this a guide to tanking in general or merely brainstorming for a yet to exist Barbarian/x tank build.

I’ve played a few tanks in 5e and here’s my experience:

Eldritch knight (multi Bladesinger after 7, although war wizard may be better option now): very tough, good Damage, very high AC without relying on magic items. Spells give you many good defensive options (blur, Haste, shield, protection from evil and good, Improved Invisibility). Nice utility with spellcasting and concentration on powerful spells is a pretty good carrot to get enemies to attack you.

Immortal Mystic: This class is broken. Tons of temporary HP, multiclasses Fighter very well, spells to taste. Hopefully next version is more balanced.

Oath of Crown Paladin: great support, a good substitute for a cleric, better with a heavy ranged or mobile party to take advantage of challenge.

Hexblade: Having fun trapping people in devils Sight/darkness using Sentinel feat. Fiendish Vigor is insanely good for tanking at low levels. Have to make sure your party still has a target outside of the darkness though :p.

There are lots of ways to tank in 5e. In my experience, just being the one next to monsters is enough to draw attention with most DMs. Sentinel or warcaster/booming blade is good if your Dm frequently provokes oas.

[Ganymede]

I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to absorb damage is to have a friendly Empyrean and a horde of fiends to take the damage for you.

Simply put, being a bunch of monsters is a great way to tank.

[Nothing Here]

I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to absorb damage is to have a friendly Empyrean and a horde of fiends to take the damage for you.

Simply put, being a bunch of monsters is a great way to tank.
Wrong, It's Simulacrum's Warding Bond spell. Resistence to all damage.

Also, Eldrich blast + Heightein Sanctuary (DC 22) + 36 AC is amazing tanking while attack at 1200'

He doesn't need summons(fiends) to be a tanker.

[The Cats]

I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to tank is to spam the forum with the same overly-long post that should be behind spoiler tags but isn't because when your opponent has carpal tunnel from all that scrolling he can't swing a sword as hard.

[Talamare]

I agree with Nothing Here. One of the best ways to tank is to spam the forum with the same overly-long post that should be behind spoiler tags but isn't because when your opponent has carpal tunnel from all that scrolling he can't swing a sword as hard.

He has been banned several times, just don't even respond and report


As for the Thread... There is presumption of NEEDING Barbarian to be a Tank
Due to that presumption, everything that doesn't inherently work with Barbarian seems to be rated quite poorly.

I personally don't recommend this guide, but That is just 1 person's opinion of course.

Edit - The thread has since received a significant overhaul and has definitely become of amazing quality!
I recommend this new guide for both newbie and veteran players.

[Specter]

Thanks for the honorable mention!

First of all, it's important to remember you can't rage in heavy armor. So you should change whatever needs to be changed around that.

Secondly, don't sell other classes short as tanks. A rogue with Tough as a feat can have as much effective HP as a Barbarian, and can also move around the field much more easily. A paladin can use Compelled Duel to lock whoever he wants while also giving enemies a reason to target him for his auras. Etc.

[Twizzly513]

*snip*

All true, I hadn't thought of it that way. Will be fixed shortly.


No Tortle? No battlerager? Oath of the Crown?

The only one of those I'm aware of is tortle, and I've never used it, so it didn't cross my mind. I'll look into them all and add them if I can.


Also Ancients paladin doesn't even rate blue? No other class will protect your allies from spells like that level 7 aura.

The aura is nice, and I considered mentioning it, but it's fairly small at that level, and at the end of the day you'll have to go through a lot of not-really-tank-oriented levels to get there. They're not bad features, just not as good. The guide was made trying to create a pure tank. If I wanted to tank and get some debuffs and buffs, I'd probably just play a pure paladin in the first place. The entire guide was made with this philosophy in mind.


I’m confused...is this a guide to tanking in general or merely brainstorming for a yet to exist Barbarian/x tank build.

I’ve played a few tanks in 5e and here’s my experience:

Eldritch knight (multi Bladesinger after 7, although war wizard may be better option now): very tough, good Damage, very high AC without relying on magic items. Spells give you many good defensive options (blur, Haste, shield, protection from evil and good, Improved Invisibility). Nice utility with spellcasting and concentration on powerful spells is a pretty good carrot to get enemies to attack you.

Immortal Mystic: This class is broken. Tons of temporary HP, multiclasses Fighter very well, spells to taste. Hopefully next version is more balanced.

Oath of Crown Paladin: great support, a good substitute for a cleric, better with a heavy ranged or mobile party to take advantage of challenge.

Hexblade: Having fun trapping people in devils Sight/darkness using Sentinel feat. Fiendish Vigor is insanely good for tanking at low levels. Have to make sure your party still has a target outside of the darkness though :p.

There are lots of ways to tank in 5e. In my experience, just being the one next to monsters is enough to draw attention with most DMs. Sentinel or warcaster/booming blade is good if your Dm frequently provokes oas.

It is, in fact, a guide to tanking. I do say so in the title:smallwink: Eldritch knight isn't necessarily a bad way to tank. It's just overshadowed by the options mentioned and also does not actually function when paired with barbarian, a far better tank overall, given the three things I was looking for that I mentioned at the beginning. Damage wasn't a priority either. The goal was to be able to tank most in contrast to tank lots and deal some damage. I consciously chose not to include Mystic since it's such a complex class and wasn't actually official. I wasn't aware of Oath of the Crown, although apparently I'll be looking into it. I didn't think of the darkness combo because this 1) Has nothing to do with actually tanking and is a sure way to keep people away from you and get people to target people they can actually see, negating the entire idea of tanking, 2) Can only be done to one creature, 3) Assumes that this one creature will always fit inside of the darkness sphere, 4) Doesn't aid you against AoE spells and effects from monsters and traps, 5) Can be dispelled, thereby causing the entire strategy to become moot. That kind of build works well for a striker/controller, not really a tank. As for your final point, this is true.

[Twizzly513]

Thanks for the honorable mention!

First of all, it's important to remember you can't rage in heavy armor. So you should change whatever needs to be changed around that.

Secondly, don't sell other classes short as tanks. A rogue with Tough as a feat can have as much effective HP as a Barbarian, and can also move around the field much more easily. A paladin can use Compelled Duel to lock whoever he wants while also giving enemies a reason to target him for his auras. Etc.

For some reason, regardless of having played a barbarian multiple times, I did not notice this... :smalleek: Looks like I'll be doing a rework.

Yes, I appeared to have focused in on one strategy of tanking that appeared to be the "best" strategy. This strategy is apparently nonfunctional. Perhaps tank was an overstep for a first-timer. I'll add in a section for "Strategies" and then rework the class analysis portion based on the various strategies. Hopefully it will come out correctly.

[Arkhios]

This is the best tanker! try kill him!


[snip]

Reported for spam and trolling.

I'd advise others to do the same. This person should get a permanent ban. The post and its content doesn't make head or tail of anything.

[The_Jette]

Reported for spam and trolling.

I'd advise others to do the same. This person should get a permanent ban. The post and its content doesn't make head or tail of anything.

I did not come here expecting the Nameless King to show up... I was mistaken. And, the guy still doesn't understand how to calculate AC...

Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.

[Crgaston]

I did not come here expecting the Nameless King to show up... I was mistaken. And, the guy still doesn't understand how to calculate AC...

Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.

(Note: I’m on my phone so I don’t know how to change text color. Please consider the following as mostly blue.)


Lucius Threvor (the Nameless King’s name) cannot be killed, so of course he is the ultimate tank! Silly mortal!

Pretty sure Blood Magic is homebrew in 5e. Don’t know about prior editions.

I’m most intrigued by the Taint Score mechanic. Is there a Department of Taint Evaluation? I wanna join. Or at least get a hat and a badge.

[Arkhios]

Question: Does anyone know if the Blood Magic listed in the profile is homebrewed, or from a book? If a book, what book is it from? I only have the PHB. So, I don't know much about the non-core stuff.


Pretty sure Blood Magic is homebrew in 5e. Don’t know about prior editions.

Yeah. Not an official thing (in 5th). As of who homebrewed it, I think Matthew Mercer or Middle Finger of Vecna might've had something along the lines? Not sure though.

[Innocent_bystan]

For some reason, regardless of having played a barbarian multiple times, I did not notice this... :smalleek: Looks like I'll be doing a rework.
About the Heavy Armor: the description of the resistances you get while raging of the Bear Totem lacks the 'while not in heavy armor'-clause. So, RAW, the full plate bear warrior is still an option.

[The_Jette]

About the Heavy Armor: the description of the resistances you get while raging of the Bear Totem lacks the 'while not in heavy armor'-clause. So, RAW, the full plate bear warrior is still an option.

I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.

[Innocent_bystan]

I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.

You can rage while wearing heavy armor, because the start of the description of rage states "while raging and not wearing heavy armor, you gain the following benefits". So you can rage in plate, you just don't gain any benefits.

Later, the description of bear totem's lvl 3 ability simply states "while raging, you gain resistances to all damage types except psychic". Without any mention of heavy armor.

Note the difference with eagle's ability that does have a "while not wearing heavy armor"-clause.

Combined, this seems like a pretty solid case for a full plate bearbarian.

[Arkhios]

I'm not so sure how RAW this is, since the Bear Totem merely expands your list of resistances while raging. Since it was already stated that you don't get your resistances while raging, I don't see why expanding the list would change whether you can gain them while wearing Heavy Armor. I don't know how the rest of the Totems are written out, though, since I'm currently AFB.

Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.

[The_Jette]

Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.

It doesn't really matter to me, but in case you put any weight into Jeremy Crawford's words:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/801126631926468608

[Specter]

Actually, Bear Spirit is worded as a separate source of resistance. It doesn't say it expands the normal resistance from rage, and like the poster above me said, you can rage in heavy armor and still benefit from Bear Spirit.

Even if that's the case, just losing the weapon resistance, the extra damage and the STR advantages of rage for 1-2 AC is definitely not worth it.

[Twizzly513]

Alright I've updated the thread, I hope this is better!

[Talamare]

Note about Sneak Attack

It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!

[JellyPooga]

Note about Sneak Attack

It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!

An additional note about Sneak Attack; it makes you the off-turn threat to worry about. No-one has better off-turn damage than a Rogue and that's all sorts of Tanky once it's recognised. Add, among other things, an appearance that typically appears to be an "easy target" (unlike that plate armoured Fighter) and there's a solid argument that Rogue could be considered the best Tank class. "Attack me or suffer dire consequence" is the Tank Motto and Rogue embodies that to the letter.

[Sception]

The 'Oath of Conquest' subclass for paladin from Xanathar's guide deserves some mention here. It doesn't really come online until level seven, though before that it's still a paladin with solid oath spells and decent channel divinities, so you won't exactly be hurting at early levels regardless.

But the aura of conquest, when it does come online, is one of the stickiest features in the game, reducing the speed of enemies within 10' that are frightened of the paladin to zero. Why merely punish an enemy for walking away from you to target your squishier allies when you can outright prevent them from doing so, while at the same time giving them disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks? Creatures with speed zero can't run around a corner to even start making saves to escape the fear spell. Creatures with speed zero can't stand up from prone either, so feel free to shove them over and enjoy advantage on melee attacks against them. Be a half elf and hit prone-locked targets with tri-vantage to to crit fish your smites. Who needs darkness/devil's sight?

Yeah, by the late game a lot of enemies are immune to fear, but not all by any stretch. Pit fiends and balors aren't immune, though they have good saves with advantage. Ancient dragons aren't immune, though you have to chew through their legendary resistance. If your DM allows UA content, the 'Menacing' feat is resisted by a check, rather than a save, and so bypasses spell and legendary resistance altogether.

[Twizzly513]

Note about Sneak Attack

It only requires a FINESSE Weapon...
but does NOT Require that you use DEX for your finesse attacks

That means you can use a Rapier with Strength, and still sneak attack!

I was aware of this, but imo Dex is still a better stat to have higher than Str if you can (especially when AC relies on it), and the only thing to really gain from attacking with Str over Dex is Rage damage. When picking between Rage damage and AC, I consciously chose AC.


*snip*

Yeah, I remember ranking it highly at some point, not sure where it went in transfer... Will be updated

EDIT: Somehow my description for Oath of Conquest got put under Oath of Vengeance. That's been fixed.

[Sception]

I'd argue against the statement "frightening people isn't good". For a tank, the frightened condition can be a fantastic debuff to impose, albeit a bit tricky to use. Imposing penalties on attack rolls and checks for enemies that can see you is obviously good, in that it reduces the effectiveness of attacks against both yourself and your party. It also makes enemies less able to resist your shoves or escape your grapples. Preventing enemies from approaching you is good if you coordinate your positioning with your team to prevent the same enemies from approaching your party members as well.

Frightened enemies tending to scatter is, of course, an issue, but depending on your team comp other party members might be able to prevent or capitalize on that with wall effects or the like, and if you have the sentinel feat, or war caster plus booming blade, which are already solid choices for any tank, then you can prevent or significantly punish at least one enemy who tries to bolt for the hills yourself.

I got plenty of tanking utility out of the fear bursts from Fallen Aasimar & Oath Breaker paladins in the past.

[The_Jette]

I'd argue against the statement "frightening people isn't good". For a tank, the frightened condition can be a fantastic debuff to impose, albeit a bit tricky to use. Imposing penalties on attack rolls and checks for enemies that can see you is obviously good, in that it reduces the effectiveness of attacks against both yourself and your party. It also makes enemies less able to resist your shoves or escape your grapples. Preventing enemies from approaching you is good if you coordinate your positioning with your team to prevent the same enemies from approaching your party members as well.

To further this point, in a situation where the enemies can't surround you (which is the preferable situation anyways), all you have to do is position yourself between the party and your frightened enemies and they won't be able to advance at all. So, that's a pretty damn good debuff to have. It's been extremely useful in my game, when the party Paladin caused the black dragon we were fighting to be frightened (my portent dice may have forced a failed save :smallcool: ). It's a bit situational, but still useful.

[Nidgit]

Sword and Board is obviously the most defensive style suited to tanking but imo Great Weapons aren't exactly red. Two-handed weapons:
A) Increase your regular attack damage, making you a bigger priority.
B) Make your OAs more punishing and thus make you stickier.
C) Reach weapons, with the Sentinel+PAM combo, allow one of the stickiest builds in the game.

Sure your own defenses aren't quite as strong but for a barbarian who prefers HP tanking to AC tanking and whose class features promote larger weapon dice or a fighter with extra feats to spend, upping your damage through Great Weapons is an extremely viable way to tank.

[Twizzly513]

I'd argue against the statement "frightening people isn't good".

You make a good argument, and frightening people is a great debuff to have. Unfortunately, it's a debuff, not something a tank needs to focus on. If you had debuffs and used it, great. That doesn't increase actual tanking ability. It's battlefield control.


*snip*

Again, a good argument for why frightened is a good condition to impose on others. Again, however, that's a debuff, not a tank's specific job. This is a wizard/other battlefied controller/debuffer's job.


Sword and Board is obviously the most defensive style suited to tanking but imo Great Weapons aren't exactly red. Two-handed weapons:
A) Increase your regular attack damage, making you a bigger priority.
B) Make your OAs more punishing and thus make you stickier.
C) Reach weapons, with the Sentinel+PAM combo, allow one of the stickiest builds in the game.

Sure your own defenses aren't quite as strong but for a barbarian who prefers HP tanking to AC tanking and whose class features promote larger weapon dice or a fighter with extra feats to spend, upping your damage through Great Weapons is an extremely viable way to tank.

This is true, I hadn't thought of it this way. I will promote two handed weapons.

[Texugo]

(Note: I’m on my phone so I don’t know how to change text color. Please consider the following as mostly blue.)


Lucius Threvor (the Nameless King’s name) cannot be killed, so of course he is the ultimate tank! Silly mortal!

Pretty sure Blood Magic is homebrew in 5e. Don’t know about prior editions.

I’m most intrigued by the Taint Score mechanic. Is there a Department of Taint Evaluation? I wanna join. Or at least get a hat and a badge.

Wrong, It's from Heroes of the Orient book. It's an official suplement 5.0.

[GlenSmash!]

the only thing to really gain from attacking with Str over Dex is Rage damage.

Hardly.

Reckless Attack requires attacking with strength and it's one of the best tanking abilities in the game. It's a huge "Hit me instead of the Wizard!" button.

I also think you're undervaluing the Zealot. A Zealot can tank even when he has 0 hitpoints and has failed all 3 death saves.

[Naanomi]

Wrong, It's from Heroes of the Orient book. It's an official suplement 5.0.
Or... a published third party content anyways, not by WotC

[Texugo]

Or... a published third party content anyways, not by WotC

Wrong again. It official 5E supplement, Created for
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition by Wizards of the Coast

CREDITS
Lead Designer, Concept, Writing, and Art Direction
Marc A.
Balance, Flavor, and Playtesting
Marc A.
Thomas T. B.
David M.
Aaron S.
Inspired by the original supplements
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Oriental Adventures by Gary Gygax (1985)
Dungeons & Dragons Oriental Adventures by James Wyatt (2001)
Created for
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition by Wizards of the Coast
By
Version 1.1.2
Artwork
The artwork in this handbook is all created by the artists below. A huge
thanks goes out to them, for allowing me to include their illustrations herein.
Each illustration has its copyright information attached to it.
If you find their artwork intriguing, you should check out their galleries,
which are linked below. If you’d like to commission either of them, you’ll
also find their contact information there.
For some illustrations it was not possible to locate the original artist. All
reasonable attempts have been made to contact the copyright holders of all
artworks. You are invited to contact me through [email protected] if
your image was used without identification or acknowledgment.
Aleksey Bayura
Gallery: alekseybayura.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]
Yannick Bouchard
Gallery: yannickbouchard.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]
James Hall
Gallery: turkiish.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]
popChar
Gallery: popchar.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]
Saxon Surokov
Gallery: saxonsurokov.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]
Jean Paul Torres
Gallery: lordcrusan.deviantart.com
Contact: [email protected]

[GlenSmash!]

Wrong again. It official 5E supplement, Created for
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition by Wizards of the Coast

It's not official. It's not AL legal. Even in the part you had bolded it's clear that it's "Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition" that was created by Wizards of the Coast, not this supplement.

it's a well reviewed Third Party product, but that doesn't make it official.

[Texugo]

It's not official. It's not AL legal. Even in the part you had bolded it's clear that it's "Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition" that was created by Wizards of the Coast, not this supplement.

it's a well reviewed Third Party product, but that doesn't make it official.


Well, I was a bit confused, where I found it was reported as 5e supplement.
Thank you anyway.

[Twizzly513]

Hardly.

Reckless Attack requires attacking with strength and it's one of the best tanking abilities in the game. It's a huge "Hit me instead of the Wizard!" button.

I also think you're undervaluing the Zealot. A Zealot can tank even when he has 0 hitpoints and has failed all 3 death saves.

Actually, you don't need to use Strength to use Reckless Attack. The passage reads: "When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn."

No Strength requirement whatsoever, actually. You just don't get advantage. You still get all the tanky benefits, however. You don't really need Advantage anyways, and AC is better than advantage on attack rolls if you're tanking.

Zealot does have a nice capstone at 14th level. However it's not as useful as other subclasses, and an overall poor pick when compared to other barbarians' tanking capacity. They last a few turns longer at 14th level and can come back from death with less gold. Those are the main draws, and are nice in other situations. It's pretty meh when held next to the other barbarians.

[Gardakan]

A different take on the tanking can come from a magic feat : Inspiring Leader.

I mean... boosting the overall level of hp of your allies is some sort of tanking on the short and long run.

I'd definitely take a better look at Inspiring Leader with a 16 Charisma to start with as a feat, it gets really insane fast

[Arkhios]

magic feat : Inspiring Leader

"magic" feat? There's nothing magical about Inspiring Leader :smalltongue:

[GlenSmash!]

Actually, you don't need to use Strength to use Reckless Attack. The passage reads: "When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn."

No Strength requirement whatsoever, actually. You just don't get advantage. You still get all the tanky benefits, however. You don't really need Advantage anyways, and AC is better than advantage on attack rolls if you're tanking.

Zealot does have a nice capstone at 14th level. However it's not as useful as other subclasses, and an overall poor pick when compared to other barbarians' tanking capacity. They last a few turns longer at 14th level and can come back from death with less gold. Those are the main draws, and are nice in other situations. It's pretty meh when held next to the other barbarians.

Fair points about Zealots and reckless Attack.

However as a DM what will stop me from just going around the High AC Dex Bear Barbarian? Even if attacks against him have advantage, why would I waste it against High AC, Resistance, and buckets of HP? It works better with an Ancestral Guardian because it has a built in reason to target it, but on others, I'll just wait to target the Barb until Last.

A Strength based Recklessly Attacking Barbarian is a problem. He's bad news if you fight him, bad news if you ignore him. That's what I want a tank to do. Even better with PM and Sentinel. He becomes a major monster locking down a good portion of the battlefield.

[Specter]

Here's a breakdown of Barbarian subclasses by order of tanking efficiency:

Ancestral Guardian - this was built to tank. L3, 6 and 14 features all revolve around protecting allies and thwarting attacks. If you want to be a dedicated tank, you need a good reason not to take this.

Frenzy - A bonus action attack, even without a greataxe, immediately marks you as a priority in the field. Not needing Resilient (WIS) is also aces.

Totem - this works, even though the L 6 and 10 abilities give you nothing good for combat. And contrary to popular belief, you want Wolf, not Bear, at level 3; enemies don't want to attack someone who resists everything,and most non-B/S/P damage will come from range anyway, so you can't effectively draw that to you. On the other hand, a manwho is giving his allies advantage on attacks must be shut down immediately. Save Bear for level 14, as that's a prime tanking ability.

Storm Herald - The auras mostly make enemies want to be away from you, except for the L14 feature that harasses enemies.

Zealot - the only tanking feature I can see is the pseudo-advantage on saving throws.

[GlenSmash!]

Here's a breakdown of Barbarian subclasses by order of tanking efficiency:

Ancestral Guardian - this was built to tank. L3, 6 and 14 features all revolve around protecting allies and thwarting attacks. If you want to be a dedicated tank, you need a good reason not to take this.

Frenzy - A bonus action attack, even without a greataxe, immediately marks you as a priority in the field. Not needing Resilient (WIS) is also aces.

Totem - this works, even though the L 6 and 10 abilities give you nothing good for combat. And contrary to popular belief, you want Wolf, not Bear, at level 3; enemies don't want to attack someone who resists everything,and most non-B/S/P damage will come from range anyway, so you can't effectively draw that to you. On the other hand, a manwho is giving his allies advantage on attacks must be shut down immediately. Save Bear for level 14, as that's a prime tanking ability.

Storm Herald - The auras mostly make enemies want to be away from you, except for the L14 feature that harasses enemies.

Zealot - the only tanking feature I can see is the pseudo-advantage on saving throws.

Frenzy also has the ability to take the (underutilized) Dodge action and still attack in the same turn, that can be useful in and of itself on a Tank.

[Twizzly513]

Fair points about Zealots and reckless Attack.

However as a DM what will stop me from just going around the High AC Dex Bear Barbarian? Even if attacks against him have advantage, why would I waste it against High AC, Resistance, and buckets of HP? It works better with an Ancestral Guardian because it has a built in reason to target it, but on others, I'll just wait to target the Barb until Last.

A Strength based Recklessly Attacking Barbarian is a problem. He's bad news if you fight him, bad news if you ignore him. That's what I want a tank to do. Even better with PM and Sentinel. He becomes a major monster locking down a good portion of the battlefield.

Grappling and sentinel are good options for this, although this could very well happen, even if one made use of both. Strength leads to better offense, dexterity leads to better defense. Given it was a tanking guide, I went with Dexterity, although the validity of your argument is undeniable. I'll add in a sentence or two in favor of Str builds.


Here's a breakdown of Barbarian subclasses by order of tanking efficiency:

Ancestral Guardian - this was built to tank. L3, 6 and 14 features all revolve around protecting allies and thwarting attacks. If you want to be a dedicated tank, you need a good reason not to take this.

Frenzy - A bonus action attack, even without a greataxe, immediately marks you as a priority in the field. Not needing Resilient (WIS) is also aces.

Totem - this works, even though the L 6 and 10 abilities give you nothing good for combat. And contrary to popular belief, you want Wolf, not Bear, at level 3; enemies don't want to attack someone who resists everything,and most non-B/S/P damage will come from range anyway, so you can't effectively draw that to you. On the other hand, a manwho is giving his allies advantage on attacks must be shut down immediately. Save Bear for level 14, as that's a prime tanking ability.

Storm Herald - The auras mostly make enemies want to be away from you, except for the L14 feature that harasses enemies.

Zealot - the only tanking feature I can see is the pseudo-advantage on saving throws.

Berserker path is right out in most builds due to exhaustion. You could just not frenzy (even though that would go against what you said). Although in that case, why did you even take berserker?

Totem - Wolf is good for being a support since it gives advantage, and people do like to target supports. The sheer survivability of bear makes it a top choice, and I believe it will continue to reign the (apparently mostly) unchallenged champion of the totem paths for tanking. To each his own, however you choose to be targeted.

Storm Herald - That's why I specifically said tundra is the only option. No damage on the aura, just temp hp to teammates.

Everything else I agree with.

[Specter]

Berserker path is right out in most builds due to exhaustion. You could just not frenzy (even though that would go against what you said). Although in that case, why did you even take berserker?

Totem - Wolf is good for being a support since it gives advantage, and people do like to target supports. The sheer survivability of bear makes it a top choice, and I believe it will continue to reign the (apparently mostly) unchallenged champion of the totem paths for tanking. To each his own, however you choose to be targeted.

Storm Herald - That's why I specifically said tundra is the only option. No damage on the aura, just temp hp to teammates.

Everything else I agree with.

You don't need to frenzy in every fight, and that's okay. You have other stuff to make up for it. Berserker gets combat abilities in all levels, while Totem gets only two. This should be making up for all the fights you're not frenzying.

Furthermore, Berserker can invest in one more feat (like Tough or Alert) that other Barbarians wouldn't.

About Totem, I was talking about tanking. As in, making opponents target you or suffer some nasty effect from not doing so. You can have 900HP if you want, and it still won't make a difference if your enemies just choose someone else to attack because your buddy will go down more easily than you.

A barbarian in general can lock foes in melee well, but if an enemy is sending a Fireball or a Chain Lightning towards the party, they can probably target anyone they please, which is why these bonus resistances are good for keeping yourself alive, but not tanking.

In short, Bear L3 will make you last longer, while Wolf L3 will make not targeting you a mistake, which is what tanking is all about.

[Twizzly513]

You don't need to frenzy in every fight, and that's okay. You have other stuff to make up for it. Berserker gets combat abilities in all levels, while Totem gets only two. This should be making up for all the fights you're not frenzying.

Furthermore, Berserker can invest in one more feat (like Tough or Alert) that other Barbarians wouldn't.

About Totem, I was talking about tanking. As in, making opponents target you or suffer some nasty effect from not doing so. You can have 900HP if you want, and it still won't make a difference if your enemies just choose someone else to attack because your buddy will go down more easily than you.

A barbarian in general can lock foes in melee well, but if an enemy is sending a Fireball or a Chain Lightning towards the party, they can probably target anyone they please, which is why these bonus resistances are good for keeping yourself alive, but not tanking.

In short, Bear L3 will make you last longer, while Wolf L3 will make not targeting you a mistake, which is what tanking is all about.

Berserkers are nice in that they got combat abilities at all levels, but they don't help nearly as much.

Frenzy doesn't have to be used every fight, but given the other amazing features barbarians get at 3rd, it feels lackluster in comparison with such a heavy drawback.

Mindless rage I feel doesn't quite live up to proficiency in Wis saves. Charmed would suck, frightened is quite common, and immunity is obviously superior to proficiency in the save. The problem is that I'm also thinking of Wis saves against spell effects like Hold Person, Command, Bestow Curse, Slow, Confusion, etc. Mindless Rage is definitely helpful, but I don't think it gives you a pass on Resilient (Wis). Just a limited bonus.

Intimidating Presence frightens, which makes you a lot less likely to be targeted or hit, which is a terrible thing for a tank to do. It does have some situational debuff/control use, though. Nice, but not really what we came here for.

Retaliation makes you deal more damage, and it's a great ability. The problem with it is two things, specifically with tanking (most of the time it's awesome): 1) It punishes people for actually hitting you. 2) It uses up your reaction, which is the main thing keeping people from simply walking away from you. It would negate entirely taking the Sentinel feat, which is a popular tanking choice for a reason.

Overall, berserker wasn't made to tank. They were made to hit people and to make them scared.

As for your argument in favor of Wolf totem, by that logic the best way to be a tank would be to play a buffer/striker so that people would have to kill you. This doesn't actually work for a reason. If you'd like to buff a group as well as tank, wolf would be your best bet. For straight tanking, though, I stand strong that bear is the best way to go. If someone is going to target the group with spells, many tank features in the first place won't help you be targeted over a cleric or a rogue. People aren't going to want to hit you, they'll want to hit others over you. This is a fact of any game where you're not the one dealing damage or dispensing heals and buffs. Pretending to be a buffer or a striker would make you a worse tank and a bad buffer/striker. If you want to give your buddies advantage, walk in the middle of a group of monsters and go for flanking. The only extra thing you gain from the wolf effect is that your allies can attack from other places near a monster that's next to you instead of on the opposite side of the monster from you. It just feels like it's not actually giving a huge bonus over flanking.

[MagneticKitty]

Secondary Strategies
Keep in mind here that for all of these, you can take your first level in the secondary class to bypass multiclassing ability score prerequisites then multiclass into your primary class, which you likely fit the bill for.

"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. "

[GlenSmash!]

"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. "

People often forget this.

[Arkhios]

People often forget this.

Or, choose to ignore and then forget, because they don't like it. (not me though, perish the thought!)

[GlenSmash!]

Or, choose to ignore and then forget, because they don't like it. (not me though, perish the thought!)

Right.

I'm all for houserules, but at least be aware that you have made a change.

[Squiddish]

While this guide is mostly very good, I've got a few issues with it.

First of all, having some sort of ranged option is quite useful for tanks. It can be quite difficult to draw enemy fire if you're too far away to pose a valid threat to them, so having a moderately effective ranged weapon can help keep those pesky archers from hitting other, squishier party members. While being far away from enemies is suboptimal for tanking, if the enemies have ranged options you can bet they don't want to get anywhere near you.

Second, I find some of your summaries to be overly brief and/or dismissive.

Champion starts out about as good as the base fighter, but gives some advantages at tenth level (another fighting style, so you can have both protection and defense without multiclassing) and it gives what in my opinion is the tankiest feature of all at 18th level. Combining that with a likely AC of at least 20, probably higher, and the few times when you do get hit will be wiped away fairly quickly. While I admit it doesn't work terribly well with multiclassing, you can already regenerate HP about as well as most species of undead. Champion in general is a passive tank, while most of the other fighter archetypes have to actively tank, i.e. by using maneuvers, spells, or other limited-use class features. Overall, it's not weak so much as it is overshadowed by other fighter archetypes.

I would recommend giving samurai a dark blue or blue/black rating rather than just black, since fighting spirit is a pretty potent tanking ability, with the stipulation that it's most effective for sticky builds. Could multiclass well with paladin, or for that matter with rogue.

I'd note that monks are quite good at dodging, but they are by no means tanks. A couple levels of monk could be viable in a multiclass build, especially for a druid, if only for unarmored defense.

Bards, if they can choose their spells well, can do fairly well at "active" tanking, that is, spending resources to avoid damage. Additionally, as a secondary class it can give access to some good buffs and the ability to heal yourself. Plus, there are very few things that draw fire better than aggravating the opponents with singing and insults.

Warlocks can tank, but they generally burn through spell slots at a quick pace to do so. Hexblade gives some tanking ability, but overall the choice of invocations matters more. Tomb of Levistus gives a lot of temporary HP, while Grasp of Hadar, Lance of Lethargy, and if you're willing to go 7 levels instead of just 2, relentless hex allow warlocks to be the stickiest of classes. should they choose.

As for wizards, the best way for a wizard to tank is probably abjuration, and an abjuration wizard is quite tanky indeed (especially if spell mastery is involved) but if they want to get a tank instead of being a tank, conjuration is fairly viable.

[Specter]

Berserkers are nice in that they got combat abilities at all levels, but they don't help nearly as much.

Frenzy doesn't have to be used every fight, but given the other amazing features barbarians get at 3rd, it feels lackluster in comparison with such a heavy drawback.

Mindless rage I feel doesn't quite live up to proficiency in Wis saves. Charmed would suck, frightened is quite common, and immunity is obviously superior to proficiency in the save. The problem is that I'm also thinking of Wis saves against spell effects like Hold Person, Command, Bestow Curse, Slow, Confusion, etc. Mindless Rage is definitely helpful, but I don't think it gives you a pass on Resilient (Wis). Just a limited bonus.

Intimidating Presence frightens, which makes you a lot less likely to be targeted or hit, which is a terrible thing for a tank to do. It does have some situational debuff/control use, though. Nice, but not really what we came here for.

Retaliation makes you deal more damage, and it's a great ability. The problem with it is two things, specifically with tanking (most of the time it's awesome): 1) It punishes people for actually hitting you. 2) It uses up your reaction, which is the main thing keeping people from simply walking away from you. It would negate entirely taking the Sentinel feat, which is a popular tanking choice for a reason.

Overall, berserker wasn't made to tank. They were made to hit people and to make them scared.

As for your argument in favor of Wolf totem, by that logic the best way to be a tank would be to play a buffer/striker so that people would have to kill you. This doesn't actually work for a reason. If you'd like to buff a group as well as tank, wolf would be your best bet. For straight tanking, though, I stand strong that bear is the best way to go. If someone is going to target the group with spells, many tank features in the first place won't help you be targeted over a cleric or a rogue. People aren't going to want to hit you, they'll want to hit others over you. This is a fact of any game where you're not the one dealing damage or dispensing heals and buffs. Pretending to be a buffer or a striker would make you a worse tank and a bad buffer/striker. If you want to give your buddies advantage, walk in the middle of a group of monsters and go for flanking. The only extra thing you gain from the wolf effect is that your allies can attack from other places near a monster that's next to you instead of on the opposite side of the monster from you. It just feels like it's not actually giving a huge bonus over flanking.

ABOUT FRENZY:
- The worst thing to worry about is not spellcasters, but natural enemy abilities that give you nasty conditions. A Berserker can charge a dragon any day, the others not so much. Not that it's not good to have Resilient (WIS), it's just not fundamental as it is for the others.
- Frightened is disadvantage not only against you, but anyone the enemy attacks, and no forward movement. It's great for a tank, especially against enemies you can't reach.
- Agreed on Retaliation.

ABOUT TANKING:
I feel like we're talking about two different things here.

Tanking, as I've understood from a decade of D&D and MMORPG's, is discouraging enemies from attacking others, and encouraging them to attack you. Having high HP, AC, saves, or whatever else doesn't make you a tank, simply because if the enemy has any brains they'll just go for easier prey. Due to the nature of D&D, an enemy with 1HP is as effective as one with 100HP, so you need a tank to harass foes and draw attention to himself. Whether he does that with good HP, good AC, resistances or all of those it's up to him, but the fundamentals are: be the center of attention.

A tank gives an enemy the devil's choice, where none of the outcomes are particularly good. Example: A Paladin and a Wizard venture into the mountains to kill a giant. As the giant sees them battling their foes, he notices the Wizard is the one who can shape the entire battle with a single spell, but he's also flimsy and not particularly tough. If the paladin uses Compelled Duel and the giant fails the save, he will either attack the high-AC, high-HP paladin without much of an impact, or attack the Wizard with disadvantage. Whatever happens, you're blocking the giant's strategy. You are now a tank.

Now let's pretend a L3 Wolfbarian, a Rogue and a Fighter are venturing down these mountains for the same reason. The enemy quickly sees that with the Wolfbarian leading these guys into battle, they can breach his defenses quite easily and do a lot of damage. He will either attack the sturdier Barbarian, which cares less about being attacked than his friends, or attack the others while still being attacked with advantage. Win-win. Tanking.

Now, Bearbarian at L3 is exactly the opposite of that: the giant will simply murder the Rogue or the Fighter first, because a) they will take full damage from his attacks, and b) the Bearbarian's death doesn't bring any advantage to the combat other than one less enemy.

Obviously, anyone can be a prime target in the field with enough damage, debuffing, etc. But the tank wants to be the prime target, whereas the others don't.

So if you want to tank as Totem, yes, take Wolf at L3 and then Bear at L14. Otherwise, enemies will leave you to be finished last.

PS: Flanking is optional and I've never seen it in use.

[Twizzly513]

*snip*

Frightened is good as a debuff. If you would like to use debuffs, you shouldn't focus on a tank. Much of what you're talking about is buffing and debuffing. Perhaps we do fundamentally think of tanks differently. I think it's also a large difference in each of our playstyles. For instance, you say you've never seen flanking in use, while I see it in most encounters (99% of them when we had a rogue in the party). A tank also holds the front line well. An enemy, if proper tactics are used, must get past the tank. Grappling, movement, distances, battlefield control, and all that good stuff should keep an enemy away from the back line (wizards, rogues, etc.). I suppose much of the guide and many of my opinions are based around that idea that you'll have a proper party with you to buff, debuff, and battlefield-control as necessary. Either way, I think the base difference in views (specifically flanking) is the main cause of disagreement. In the way that my group plays, advantage is often given from flanking, and both allies and enemies will utilize the tactic if they can, thus advantage from an ability like that has a much smaller value to me than someone else who doesn't use flanking in combat.

Also, you've clearly never played with a devious DM with a flair for spellcasters :smalltongue:

[Oramac]

Looks good overall. Well done.


Aasimar overall (no rating here): So Charisma isn’t great unless you’re taking levels in paladin, in which case bump up all scores by 1, but they all get a nova ability that’s nice and some okay features overall.
Protector: You get a +1 Wis which isn’t bad, but it doesn’t get it a higher ranking.

I'd bump Protector Aasimar at least up to Black. The +1 Wis helps your saves, which is good. But more importantly the once per long rest fly speed is amazing for a tank. Remember the part about not being ranged? If you're fighting a flying creature (dragons, etc.) you become a worthless tank the second they start flying. This lets you get up in their stupid face.

For the same reason, I'm surprised Aracokra (sp) aren't on the list as a Dex build.

EDIT: Also, Bear-barian 3 / Moon Druid 4 is arguably the best damn tank for Tier 2 and early Tier 3. Raging while a Giant Octopus with 8 tentacles, auto-grapple, and a 15 foot reach is damn good. I can vouch for it personally.

[Twizzly513]

"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. "

Good word catch, didn't notice. I'll switch that around.


While this guide is mostly very good, I've got a few issues with it.

First of all, having some sort of ranged option is quite useful for tanks. It can be quite difficult to draw enemy fire if you're too far away to pose a valid threat to them, so having a moderately effective ranged weapon can help keep those pesky archers from hitting other, squishier party members. While being far away from enemies is suboptimal for tanking, if the enemies have ranged options you can bet they don't want to get anywhere near you.

Second, I find some of your summaries to be overly brief and/or dismissive.

Champion starts out about as good as the base fighter, but gives some advantages at tenth level (another fighting style, so you can have both protection and defense without multiclassing) and it gives what in my opinion is the tankiest feature of all at 18th level. Combining that with a likely AC of at least 20, probably higher, and the few times when you do get hit will be wiped away fairly quickly. While I admit it doesn't work terribly well with multiclassing, you can already regenerate HP about as well as most species of undead. Champion in general is a passive tank, while most of the other fighter archetypes have to actively tank, i.e. by using maneuvers, spells, or other limited-use class features. Overall, it's not weak so much as it is overshadowed by other fighter archetypes.

I would recommend giving samurai a dark blue or blue/black rating rather than just black, since fighting spirit is a pretty potent tanking ability, with the stipulation that it's most effective for sticky builds. Could multiclass well with paladin, or for that matter with rogue.

I'd note that monks are quite good at dodging, but they are by no means tanks. A couple levels of monk could be viable in a multiclass build, especially for a druid, if only for unarmored defense.

Bards, if they can choose their spells well, can do fairly well at "active" tanking, that is, spending resources to avoid damage. Additionally, as a secondary class it can give access to some good buffs and the ability to heal yourself. Plus, there are very few things that draw fire better than aggravating the opponents with singing and insults.

Warlocks can tank, but they generally burn through spell slots at a quick pace to do so. Hexblade gives some tanking ability, but overall the choice of invocations matters more. Tomb of Levistus gives a lot of temporary HP, while Grasp of Hadar, Lance of Lethargy, and if you're willing to go 7 levels instead of just 2, relentless hex allow warlocks to be the stickiest of classes. should they choose.

As for wizards, the best way for a wizard to tank is probably abjuration, and an abjuration wizard is quite tanky indeed (especially if spell mastery is involved) but if they want to get a tank instead of being a tank, conjuration is fairly viable.

1) With the equipment, I meant what your main weapon should be. I'll specify that you should always have a ranged backup, just in case it caused confusion with others.


Champions get absolutely no tank features until 18th level. Just the hit die and armor. This makes it a bad option compared to other fighter subclasses, and if you're banking on getting to be a real good tank at 18th level, I'd say you've done something wrong with tanking.

Samurai's fighting spirit alone isn't good enough to put it up to blue, being a mediocre tank feature in the first place, and I probably won't bother putting it up to blue. It's just not as good.

Unarmored defense isn't good. It's a feature that stays on par with light armor (bad). You shouldn't dip into monk for an ability that hinders your tanking ability at the cost of further decreasing your tanking ability by giving up features (and probably HP). Monk simply doesn't offer you anything.

What you are calling "active tanking" is just buffing, healing, and supporting. That's a different role altogether. (?)

Warlocks get the shield spell if they're a hexblade, but other than that nothing. You get temp hp from a couple things, but it's unreliable at best. Tomb of levistus does give loads of temp hp, but you don't get to do anything during that time. No opportunity attacks keeping people near you, no grapples, no moving, and no attacking. It's a panic button, not a strategic decision. In contrast to taking 7 levels in warlock, you could instead choose to take the sentinel feat, which makes you incredibly sticky while allowing you to keep people where you want in contrast to going where the enemy wants.

I do actually say that abjuration is the way you should go if you take wizard... They have the spell ward, but that, at best, negates a spell and maybe a bit of another, with some luck. Also, if you take 18 levels in wizard for spell mastery, you really shouldn't be looking at this guide. Again, if you are waiting until 18th level to become a (with this one, however, a bad) tank, you have done something wrong for 18 levels. Also, why are you saying anything about if you get a tank instead of being one? The whole point of the guide is to be a tank. Although, you are correct about something. Conjuration is, in fact, a solid subclass choice if you intend to play a wizard.

[Dicto]

wow, what a great guide. if i was a tank or had the motivation to play better D&D, i'd definitely read it. unfortunately, i fit none of those categories.

[Twizzly513]

Looks good overall. Well done.



I'd bump Protector Aasimar at least up to Black. The +1 Wis helps your saves, which is good. But more importantly the once per long rest fly speed is amazing for a tank. Remember the part about not being ranged? If you're fighting a flying creature (dragons, etc.) you become a worthless tank the second they start flying. This lets you get up in their stupid face.

For the same reason, I'm surprised Aracokra (sp) aren't on the list as a Dex build.

EDIT: Also, Bear-barian 3 / Moon Druid 4 is arguably the best damn tank for Tier 2 and early Tier 3. Raging while a Giant Octopus with 8 tentacles, auto-grapple, and a 15 foot reach is damn good. I can vouch for it personally.

Thank you!:smallbiggrin:

True, I'll change it. And that sounds absolutely epic.

[Squiddish]

Good word catch, didn't notice. I'll switch that around.



1) With the equipment, I meant what your main weapon should be. I'll specify that you should always have a ranged backup, just in case it caused confusion with others.


Champions get absolutely no tank features until 18th level. Just the hit die and armor. This makes it a bad option compared to other fighter subclasses, and if you're banking on getting to be a real good tank at 18th level, I'd say you've done something wrong with tanking.

Samurai's fighting spirit alone isn't good enough to put it up to blue, being a mediocre tank feature in the first place, and I probably won't bother putting it up to blue. It's just not as good.

Unarmored defense isn't good. It's a feature that stays on par with light armor (bad). You shouldn't dip into monk for an ability that hinders your tanking ability at the cost of further decreasing your tanking ability by giving up features (and probably HP). Monk simply doesn't offer you anything.

What you are calling "active tanking" is just buffing, healing, and supporting. That's a different role altogether. (?)

Warlocks get the shield spell if they're a hexblade, but other than that nothing. You get temp hp from a couple things, but it's unreliable at best. Tomb of levistus does give loads of temp hp, but you don't get to do anything during that time. No opportunity attacks keeping people near you, no grapples, no moving, and no attacking. It's a panic button, not a strategic decision. In contrast to taking 7 levels in warlock, you could instead choose to take the sentinel feat, which makes you incredibly sticky while allowing you to keep people where you want in contrast to going where the enemy wants.

I do actually say that abjuration is the way you should go if you take wizard... They have the spell ward, but that, at best, negates a spell and maybe a bit of another, with some luck. Also, if you take 18 levels in wizard for spell mastery, you really shouldn't be looking at this guide. Again, if you are waiting until 18th level to become a (with this one, however, a bad) tank, you have done something wrong for 18 levels. Also, why are you saying anything about if you get a tank instead of being one? The whole point of the guide is to be a tank. Although, you are correct about something. Conjuration is, in fact, a solid subclass choice if you intend to play a wizard.

Ah, okay. I was kinda baffled at first. Interesting edge case, if you're going for a dexterity-based tank and have a feat to spare crossbow master might be a good choice. Not only does it allow you to viably use a ranged weapon as your primary weapon, it also allows you to use viably use nets.


Good point about the champion, the only time I can think banking on being a good tank at 18th level is an option is if you're starting at 18th level.

I'd argue that fighting spirit is a good tank feature, if and only if you can find something productive to do with advantage. Nets might be a good choice... Either way, I can see your point in not making it blue.

Unarmored defense is on par with light armor for most classes, but if you already need a good wisdom for other reasons it's substantially more potent. However, now that I think about it, there are about three classes that need wisdom and dexterity and one of them is the monk. Like most of the ones I had an issue with, it's a niche multiclassing boon rather than a solid base class. I'd definitely consider it with druid if the DM rules that it works while wildshaped.

What I'm referring to as active tanking isn't buffing, healing, and supporting but employing active defenses, i.e. spending resources other than HP to avoid taking damage, or in some cases to heal yourself. An example of active tanking would be casting a buff on yourself to give temporary HP, or a temporary AC increase.

Bards can certainly pull off some tanking, but they're certainly not the most effective at it. However, they make a good secondary class for paladins and an okay one for fighters, since it allows the paladin to get more spell slots without having to multiclass into the much frailer sorcerer, and allows them to better irritate their enemies.

Warlocks in general get a fair number of defensive spells, but I now realize that most of them are designed to make the enemy not want to attack them. With that in mind, I think their best role is similar to that of the bard, as a multiclass for paladin. I can see two levels of warlock greatly adding to a paladin tank, and at the cost of approximately 2 HP and some class features.

[Talamare]

ABOUT TANKING:
I feel like we're talking about two different things here.

Tanking, as I've understood from a decade of D&D and MMORPG's, is discouraging enemies from attacking others, and encouraging them to attack you. Having high HP, AC, saves, or whatever else doesn't make you a tank, simply because if the enemy has any brains they'll just go for easier prey. Due to the nature of D&D, an enemy with 1HP is as effective as one with 100HP, so you need a tank to harass foes and draw attention to himself. Whether he does that with good HP, good AC, resistances or all of those it's up to him, but the fundamentals are: be the center of attention.

A tank gives an enemy the devil's choice, where none of the outcomes are particularly good. Example: A Paladin and a Wizard venture into the mountains to kill a giant. As the giant sees them battling their foes, he notices the Wizard is the one who can shape the entire battle with a single spell, but he's also flimsy and not particularly tough. If the paladin uses Compelled Duel and the giant fails the save, he will either attack the high-AC, high-HP paladin without much of an impact, or attack the Wizard with disadvantage. Whatever happens, you're blocking the giant's strategy. You are now a tank.

Now let's pretend a L3 Wolfbarian, a Rogue and a Fighter are venturing down these mountains for the same reason. The enemy quickly sees that with the Wolfbarian leading these guys into battle, they can breach his defenses quite easily and do a lot of damage. He will either attack the sturdier Barbarian, which cares less about being attacked than his friends, or attack the others while still being attacked with advantage. Win-win. Tanking.

Now, Bearbarian at L3 is exactly the opposite of that: the giant will simply murder the Rogue or the Fighter first, because a) they will take full damage from his attacks, and b) the Bearbarian's death doesn't bring any advantage to the combat other than one less enemy.

Obviously, anyone can be a prime target in the field with enough damage, debuffing, etc. But the tank wants to be the prime target, whereas the others don't.

So if you want to tank as Totem, yes, take Wolf at L3 and then Bear at L14. Otherwise, enemies will leave you to be finished last.

PS: Flanking is optional and I've never seen it in use.

Wow, so you fundamentally misunderstood Tanks in the last 10 years?

High HP, AC, Saves, and all that good stuff absolutely makes you a Tank.

That is more or less the exact definition of a Tank. Now you could be a Tank that can't hold Aggro, or a Tank with Bad Aggro, but you're still a Tank.
In the exact same way that a person with Low HP, AC, Saves... Let's just call this Tankiness...
In the exact same way that a person with Low Tankiness and Excellent Control is NOT a Tank. They are arguably a Controller or a CCer.

and just being the Center of Attention doesn't make you a Tank. Exactly why that Rogue that keeps sneaking behind the line, becoming the center of attention, and dying... isn't a Tank. *

Altho you're right a Tank tries to create a 'devil's choice', most of the time a Tank just tries to hold the line for as long as possible. It's arguably inevitable that enemies will get thru when you're playing in a Non-"Hard Aggro" system. So you can't expect Tanks to be able to Hold Aggro, but you absolutely can expect them to be able to Survive. (or else they aren't Tanks).

Most of the Aggro comes from more or less a 'Proximity' thing. In that if you're the closest and enemies can't just freely walk away from you without any punishment, then you're probably drawing a fair amount of natural Aggro. Now, you may argue that it's worth it to take that Punishment, but now you're arguing advanced Tactics.

As far as the Wolfbarian goes. The enemy may see that the Wolfbarian is encouraging his allies to new heights, but they still see the Squishy Rogue* and Fighter next to the Wolfbarian. The Wolfbarian has done NOTHING to encourage that enemies attack him. If anything, since the damage from his Allies are even higher, he has encouraged that his allies die even harder. Not to mention the Wolfbarian always wants to be by allies. Which means that the Proximity Aggro will be inherently spread out. As well as it heavily encourages that allies group up for a juicy Fireball to their faces.

The Bearbarian tho doesn't care about all that, he goes in, he goes deep, and he stays there causing Chaos. If the Bearbarian has his positioning set, then the Giant's choice will be to attack the Bearbarian, or to walk away from the Bearbarian and hit no other ally because they are too far away.

So yea, the Wolfbarian isn't more of a Tank than Bearbarian. He is less of a Tank and more of a Supporter. Which is perfectly fine, Support is AMAZING in all games. Just don't try to claim that he has stolen the Bearbarian's Tank Throne.

* This is an RPG Classic, I understand in 5e Rogues can be Tanks.

[Arkhios]

High HP, AC, Saves, and all that good stuff absolutely makes you a Tank.

Not only high defenses, but also the potential to be seen a big enough threat or annoyance, or just tempting enough a target, so that you're not simply ignored due to the fact that you're basically an impenetrable walking fortress.

If you're only a big blob of HP, and have both the AC and saves through the roof but you are also an insignificant threat to your enemies, in D&D you are more than likely to be ignored without a strong enough incentive to attack you instead of others (that being an equivalent of a taunt mechanism such as Marking from 4th edition or being capable of dishing out huge damage regularly, such as a rogue's sneak attack).

[Specter]

Frightened is good as a debuff. If you would like to use debuffs, you shouldn't focus on a tank. Much of what you're talking about is buffing and debuffing. Perhaps we do fundamentally think of tanks differently. I think it's also a large difference in each of our playstyles. For instance, you say you've never seen flanking in use, while I see it in most encounters (99% of them when we had a rogue in the party). A tank also holds the front line well. An enemy, if proper tactics are used, must get past the tank. Grappling, movement, distances, battlefield control, and all that good stuff should keep an enemy away from the back line (wizards, rogues, etc.). I suppose much of the guide and many of my opinions are based around that idea that you'll have a proper party with you to buff, debuff, and battlefield-control as necessary. Either way, I think the base difference in views (specifically flanking) is the main cause of disagreement. In the way that my group plays, advantage is often given from flanking, and both allies and enemies will utilize the tactic if they can, thus advantage from an ability like that has a much smaller value to me than someone else who doesn't use flanking in combat.

Also, you've clearly never played with a devious DM with a flair for spellcasters :smalltongue:

- You're taking a shoehorn approach to this. If by debuffing an enemy you have his attention and you actively want his attention, then you are tanking. Even being up close to the enemy can be considered a debuff ("you can't move away from him without taking damage/not moving").
- Oh, I've played with and been that DM, believe me. And if they're smart, Resilient (WIS) won't save you anyway, unless you can face Banishment, Disintegrate and the likes of that on your own.