If Roy was a wizard?

[Guts]

Lets say roy decide to become a wizard like his dad wanted him to be. How would he stack up with V, what type of wizard would he be (i dont play dnd, so i m not sure how to say this, like what specialisation) and a bunch of stuff stuuf you guys can come up with?

[yoshi927]

Well, it would be a bad decision for a high-level fighter, but I'd say;

Much weaker than V, most likely a sideshow like Elan's bard casting

Roy might specialize in Transmutation to cast buffs on himself, or maybe Evocation like V.

I think he might have a Hawk familiar or something like that too.

[Setra]

Well if he were to follow after his dad, he'd be an Illusionist. Possibly barring Evocation(?).

Maybe a Batman Wizard of sorts.

[Dunamin]

I don't think he would specialize, actually. Roy is strategically oriented, and would thus possibly be a generalist so that he has a wide assortment of options.

However, if were to specialize, these are a couple considerations that I can come up with:

Enchantment: Definitely not! Roy loathes manipulation, as he has been vividly manipulated by his father and others (Shojo, if we're talking going wizard after the Azure City arc).

Divination: Possibly, Roy favours intel and attention to detail, as is evident with his very particular question to the oracle and general tactical mindset.

Necromancy: Likely not. He probably frowns on the domain of undeath, resentment towards Xykon.

Conjuration: Good option. Diverse field, and buffs to complement combat potential.

Illusion: No. It's his father's specialty and it's about deceptions, once again. Many of the same arguments as in relation to enchantment.

Abjuration: Possibly, but he's more the guy who goes boldly on the offensive than holding back on the defensive (see: jumping on a moving dragon)

Transmutation: Ok option, it includes spells that enhances combat potential, and is pretty diverse.

Evocation: While I think Roy is offensively oriented, evocation generally seems like the school with least tactical arrays. And I don't really see Roy as a blaster.

[Alysar]

Well, it would be a bad decision for a high-level fighter

Guts meant if Roy had decided long ago to be a wizard instead of a fighter. Not if he suddenly decided to multiclass to wizard now.

[ag30476]

Lets say roy decide to become a wizard like his dad wanted him to be. How would he stack up with V, what type of wizard would he be (i dont play dnd, so i m not sure how to say this, like what specialisation) and a bunch of stuff stuuf you guys can come up with?

Roy would win since V's a blaster and Roy would be a Batman.

[Icewalker]

If you meant change long ago, then he wouldn't have hired V to join the party, as he wouldn't need a wizard.
Origins spoilers:
Interesting enough, this could also result in a lack of Haley, as she is the one who suggested he consider Vaarsuvius.

[Baalzebub]

A Generalist Wizard, at best.

[sun_tzu]

Roy seems to be V's intellectual equal (at least), and has displayed more competence and tactical skill than anyone else in the party...so, if he had become a wizard, I imagine he'd actually stack up pretty well with Varsuvius.
He'd have to work more on prep though. Like I said here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26512), Roy is the type of tactician who's more likely to improvise in the heat of battle than make complex plans beforehand. Given how wizards must prepare their spells in advance, he'd need to change that...But if he managed to improve his prep skills, I imagine he'd probably always carry some emergency scrolls. Given his strategic mind and all the possibilities of magic, WizardRoy could be pretty formidable.

[Gatekreeper]

If Roy were a wizard. :smallwink:

[Eriol]

DCF Spoilers:
Actually, originally Roy was SUPPOSED to be a wizard. It was only at the last moment in #1 that V was added as a wizard, and Roy became a fighter. Rich says this in the commentary in the DCF published book. His reasons were that he needed a "know-it-all" and while Roy was already the "straight man" he didn't want him to perform both roles. So Belkar was actually going to be the main melee character! Perhaps as a warrior, I don't remember off the top of my head (or maybe it was never said explicitly), but originally, Roy was a wizard in conception.

[Wrecan]

If Roy were a wizard....

I think it would have been to spite his dad, not follow him. in that way, Roy would specialize and would take Illusion and Necromancy as his barred schools. Since he would have been doing this to destroy Xykon and piss off his dad, Abjuration would have been an interesting choice.

If Roy were a wizard, he never would have picked up the ancestral sword, so he wouldn't have been combat oriented. Rather, Roy is strategic and he would have been a strategic wizard as well. (Ironically, with illusion as a barred spell, Elan becomes a more valuable member of the party since all he ever casts are illusions.)

V would not have been in the party. Rather, Roy would have had to hire a fighter.

This means Nale would not have hired Zz'dtri to be in the Linear Guild, but would instead have hired a specialist wizard to offset Roy. (Thog might still have been the evil twin of whomever Roy hired to be the party fighter.)

In the battle, Xykon would have wiped the floor with Roy (who at the time would have been a 10th level wizard). Roy would probably have died early. Haley would still have stoped Elan from touching the gate and Elan would still have touched the self-destruct rune, causing Xykon and Redcloak to flee.

After spending a share of the money on Roy's Raise Dead, treasure distribution would have been the same. The fighter (assuming he chose to go in V's spot) would have picked the boots of elvenkind, and Elan would then choose the ring of wizardry (much to Wizard Roy's annoyance). Wizard Roy would still have the bag of tricks.

Elan would still have tried becoming Elanicalicus, much to Roy's dismay.

There would not have been any sidequest to reforge Roy's sword, because Roy's sword would not have broken. Nale would have had to send them on some other wild goose chase, possibly still sending them into the woods, fighting the bandits, the hag (Roy is briefly turned into a wizard), and the dragon.

With Xykon not thrown into the gate, he, Redcloak and the MitD would not traveled to his backup fortress, would not have found the hobgoblins and would not have formed an army. Instead, they would have gone directly to Serini's tower to retrieve the diary. Then they would have gone to Girard's gate, ignoring Azure City altogether.

The Miko plot would have gone down more or less as it did. The trial in Azure City would have gone the same. Afterwards, Roy and Celia would still get together. The party would still go back to the oracle, but without the alcoholic wizard, because Roy wouldn't have Conjuration as a barred school, and could cast teleport. Julia Greenhilt would still be kidnapped (assuming she still goes to Wizard School -- she might go to fighter college instead to spite her brother). Roy would still rescue her and Elan and Nale would still switch places.

They would return to Azure City and Miko would still kill Shojo and then fall. The Linear Guild would still have a fight, Elan and Thog would still have their madcap adventure and Elan would still learn to be a dashing swordsman. The Linear Guild would still get arrested.

Roy and company would then teleport to the Western continent to find Girard's Gate. Azure City would not be invaded. Hinjo would probably extradite the Linear Guild to Cliffport so Nale would pay for his crimes. Of course, Nale and company would promptly escape from Cliffport and head to the Western continent themselves...

[Chronos]

With Xykon not thrown into the gate, he, Redcloak and the MitD would not traveled to his backup fortress, would not have found the hobgoblins and would not have formed an army. Instead, they would have gone directly to Serini's tower to retrieve the diary.Xykon's backup fortress was Serini's tower (or at least, it's where her diary was). Which means they would have still gotten the hobgoblin army. And with or without the hobs, they still would have gone for Soon's Gate first, because it was closest (and because of Redcloak's personal vendetta).

[Eriol]

They would return to Azure City and Miko would still kill Shojo and then fall.
I'm with you until here. Her impetus to falling was thinking that Roy & Co. were working for Xykon, since they claimed to destroy him, AND that Shojo was working for Xykon since he protected the OOTS, but Miko wouldn't have ever MET Xykon & Redcloak, and neither would the OOTS have ever claimed to destroy him, since as you said earlier, X & R would have fled, so there would never have been a "disputed claim" over what happened to him: they all would have agreed that he escaped to "somewhere" but not on the path between the Dwarven Lands & Azure city, and certainly not heading an army destroying scouting posts.

Miko would likely have completely missed Roy & Shojo's argument about duping the paladins, since she WOULDN'T have sped back at top speed on Windstriker, but merely maintained whatever speed she had been doing before, and nor would she have had a super-critical message and gone directly to his throne room. Basically the "short-window" for overhearing them would have been gone.

Now the interesting caveat here is that Hinjo would STILL have overheard them (both he and Miko overheard at the same time), thus he still would have had an argument with his uncle, though perhaps the outcome would have been Hinjo supporting his uncle somehow, and still keeping Miko out of the loop.

But any way it played out, Miko's fall is unlikely to have repeated (then at least) if the rest of your story predictions were true.

[Palpie]

If Roy were a wizard....

I think it would have been to spite his dad, not follow him. in that way, Roy would specialize and would take Illusion and Necromancy as his barred schools. Since he would have been doing this to destroy Xykon and piss off his dad, Abjuration would have been an interesting choice.

If Roy were a wizard, he never would have picked up the ancestral sword, so he wouldn't have been combat oriented. Rather, Roy is strategic and he would have been a strategic wizard as well. (Ironically, with illusion as a barred spell, Elan becomes a more valuable member of the party since all he ever casts are illusions.)

V would not have been in the party. Rather, Roy would have had to hire a fighter.
Disagree, WizardRoy wouldn't be a blaster so V would still be useful. It would be Elan who got left out* and the monk would be the second melee guy. Don't forget Roy(fighter or wizard) views Elan as the most useless member of the Order. While he actively tries to keep the other four in the party he was willing (however briefly) to leave Elan to the mercies of bandits. Or else WizardRoy would go with just one melee member and membership would be the same. After all WizardRoy probably would have had at least some of his father's belief that magic is better than hitting things with pointy sticks.

* Elan being left out would of course have been recruited by Nale who then wouldn't have seen any need for the whole evil opposites thing. So Elan, Nale, Sabine, Thog, Yikyik, and Hilgya would have headed off to Dorukan's dungeon to get Nale's pendant resulting in wacky hijinks when, upon running into the Order, Elan learns he's traveling with evil adventurers And perhaps he joins the Order because the monk died fighting the guild, and they aren't able to raise him at that point, just to get the 'correct' six member of the Order together and keep Nale and co. around as antagonists.


This means Nale would not have hired Zz'dtri to be in the Linear Guild, but would instead have hired a specialist wizard to offset Roy. (Thog might still have been the evil twin of whomever Roy hired to be the party fighter.)

See above. Either the Order is the same people, or Elan isn't in the Order and Nale has no interest in them. And I think Thog would still have been is the Guild. You could say an incredibly stupid, chaotic evil barbarian is the opposite of a smart lawful good wizard.


In the battle, Xykon would have wiped the floor with Roy (who at the time would have been a 10th level wizard). Roy would probably have died early. Haley would still have stoped Elan from touching the gate and Elan would still have touched the self-destruct rune, causing Xykon and Redcloak to flee.

Or some other cheap trick would have destroyed Xykon. It's not like FighterRoy actually beat Xykon in a straight up fight. Remember Xykon wanted to reveal the MitD and have him kill the Order. So as long as Roy cast some Bigby spell to knock Xykon's skull off and then toss him into the gate, things would have played out about the same.


After spending a share of the money on Roy's Raise Dead, treasure distribution would have been the same. The fighter (assuming he chose to go in V's spot) would have picked the boots of elvenkind, and Elan would then choose the ring of wizardry (much to Wizard Roy's annoyance). Wizard Roy would still have the bag of tricks.

Elan would still have tried becoming Elanicalicus, much to Roy's dismay.

There would not have been any sidequest to reforge Roy's sword, because Roy's sword would not have broken. Nale would have had to send them on some other wild goose chase, possibly still sending them into the woods, fighting the bandits, the hag (Roy is briefly turned into a wizard), and the dragon.

With Xykon not thrown into the gate, he, Redcloak and the MitD would not traveled to his backup fortress, would not have found the hobgoblins and would not have formed an army. Instead, they would have gone directly to Serini's tower to retrieve the diary. Then they would have gone to Girard's gate, ignoring Azure City altogether.

Read those comics again. The tower was where they were headed no matter what. It wasn't Serini's tower, it was an old hideout of Xykon's. So even if Xykon hadn't lost his body, he and Redcloak would have met and recruited the hobos.

SoD:
Also that reminds me, in SoD Xykon finds Sirini's diary between 3 and 6 years before DCF. But when he, Redcloak and the MitD go to get the book he comments that he hasn't been to the tower for decades.


The Miko plot would have gone down more or less as it did. The trial in Azure City would have gone the same. Afterwards, Roy and Celia would still get together. The party would still go back to the oracle, but without the alcoholic wizard, because Roy wouldn't have Conjuration as a barred school, and could cast teleport. Julia Greenhilt would still be kidnapped (assuming she still goes to Wizard School -- she might go to fighter college instead to spite her brother). Roy would still rescue her and Elan and Nale would still switch places.

They would return to Azure City and Miko would still kill Shojo and then fall. The Linear Guild would still have a fight, Elan and Thog would still have their madcap adventure and Elan would still learn to be a dashing swordsman. The Linear Guild would still get arrested.

Roy and company would then teleport to the Western continent to find Girard's Gate. Azure City would not be invaded. Hinjo would probably extradite the Linear Guild to Cliffport so Nale would pay for his crimes. Of course, Nale and company would promptly escape from Cliffport and head to the Western continent themselves...

Nope, since Xykon and Redcloak would still have the hobo army they'd still be headed to Azure city. And events would run about the same.


ETA:

Now the interesting caveat here is that Hinjo would STILL have overheard them (both he and Miko overheard at the same time), thus he still would have had an argument with his uncle, though perhaps the outcome would have been Hinjo supporting his uncle somehow, and still keeping Miko out of the loop.
But Hinjo was only there because he was escorting Miko to the throne room. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0415.html) If she wasn't rushing back he would have still been at the gates overseeing repairs. But as I pointed out above, Wrecan's probably wrong to think Xykon wouldn't have been destroyed in the first encounter, and therefore things would mostly progress the same with only minor details changing (ie, roy vs the cheese-half-ogre would have been MUCH different).

[Wrecan]

Technically, Serini's tower was at "the south end of the valley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html)". If Xykon was at full health (unhealth?), I think it quite likely they would have made a full assault on the tower themselves, bypassing the hobgoblin horde with overland flight. Since Girard's gate was on another continent, they wouldn't have bothered minion hunting until they got to the other continent.

Alternately, it would have gone down just as it did here, except Roy might not have died this time around, thanks to being able to cast his own feather fall spell. Which means Belkar and Haley would not be separated from the group, and Skullsy may still be alive (or undead). (Actually Belkar would have enraged him with the chamberpot reference, just on the ship, where he would have started a fire on the ship and Haley -- or the replacement fighter -- would have shattered him anyway.)

(In my mind, the replacement fighter for Roy is MinMax from the Goblins webcomic!)

[Wrecan]

Disagree, WizardRoy wouldn't be a blaster so V would still be useful. It would be Elan who got left out* and the monk would be the second melee guy.
Elan wasn't going to be left out. According to OotPCs, Roy was always holding a spot for him. Roy never thought Elan would be useful. At any rate, wizard Roy wouldn't need an evoker. Wizard Roy can still cast evocation spells. He just would have an abjuration in his bonus spell/level.


I think Thog would still have been is the Guild.
So do I. That's what I wrote.


Or some other cheap trick would have destroyed Xykon.
Like what? It's not like WizardRoy was likely to try throwing him into the Gate. And when that happened, the rest of OOTS was heavily preoccupied.


So as long as Roy cast some Bigby spell to knock Xykon's skull off and then toss him into the gate
Xykon took on Dorukan, a near-epic mage, and won. Without a deus ex machina like the Gate, Xykon wins. WizardRoy would have no reason to toss Xykon into the gate, and FighterRoy only did it because Xykon broke his family heirloom, which wouldn't even be present in the WizardRoy scenario.


Read those comics again. The tower was where they were headed no matter what.
If Xykon had been at full power, they would have flown there, right over the hobgoblins. Xykon only stopped to recruit because they were in his way.


when he, Redcloak and the MitD go to get the book he comments that he hasn't been to the tower for decades.
I don't think Xykon has a very good sense of time, what being unaging and all, as well as having a short attention span.


Hinjo was only there because he was escorting Miko to the throne room. If she wasn't rushing back he would have still been at the gates overseeing repairs.
That's true. Shojo would be alive, Miko would be unfallen, though still swearing vengeance against OOTS, and OOTS would be well on its way to the Western Continent, possible on Shojo's personal junk and escorted by Captain Axe.

What would Shojo have done with the Linear Guild? Who knows. I'm sure Nale would have figured out a way to escape.

Without a war, not only would Shojo be alive, but the Grand Larcenist, the Kidnapper and Tsukiko would be alive and still incarcerated. The Sapphire Guard would be alive and the Azure CIty Gate untouched.

Man, the world would have been a better place if Roy had become a Wizard!! (Though chances are the trip to Girard's gate isn't going to go well -- at some point Xykon would have gone and recruited the hobgoblins and assaulted Azure City, with predictable results.)

[Blackeyed1981]

Lets say roy decide to become a wizard like his dad wanted him to be. How would he stack up with V, what type of wizard would he be (i dont play dnd, so i m not sure how to say this, like what specialisation) and a bunch of stuff stuuf you guys can come up with?

Didn't the mindflyer-encounter from book one establish that Roy has a higher intelligence than V? If so, he would be the more powerful wizard of the two.

[Jasdoif]

If Roy were a wizard....

I think it would have been to spite his dad, not follow him. in that way, Roy would specialize and would take Illusion and Necromancy as his barred schools. Since he would have been doing this to destroy Xykon and piss off his dad, Abjuration would have been an interesting choice.I agree that it would have been solely to spite his father, but I think he'd specialize in Divination and ban Illusion.

Book spoilers:
It's interesting to note that Roy made a comment about Eugene being barred from Divination at his grave (in OtOoPCs), and that Eugene said he had a heck of a time finding Xykon (in SoD).

Was Divination an option for banned school in 3.0? I'm not aware of most differences between 3.0 and 3.5.

Regardless....

Succeeding where his father failed, and without using his father's favorite spell school, would likely make Roy absolutely giddy; and this is before facing Xykon. Imagine how much he would enjoy proving his father's magical dedication as misplaced as his familial dedication after overcoming Xykon.

[Green Bean]

Didn't the mindflyer-encounter from book one establish that Roy has a higher intelligence than V? If so, he would be the more powerful wizard of the two.

I believe that the Giant at one point said that the 'Psionic Danger' chose Roy not because he had a higher INT than Vaarsuvius, but because his mental stats were more balanced in general. Roy has middling to decent INT and WIS, and average CHA, while Vaarsuvius has high INT, he also has low CHA (referenced in the Elanicalicus storyline), and may or may not have low to average WIS.

[Palpie]

Alternately, it would have gone down just as it did here, except Roy might not have died this time around, thanks to being able to cast his own feather fall spell. Which means Belkar and Haley would not be separated from the group, and Skullsy may still be alive (or undead). (Actually Belkar would have enraged him with the chamberpot reference, just on the ship, where he would have started a fire on the ship and Haley -- or the replacement fighter -- would have shattered him anyway.)
Or Roy didn't have feather fall prepared and laments the oversight on the way down.


Elan wasn't going to be left out. According to OotPCs, Roy was always holding a spot for him. Roy never thought Elan would be useful. At any rate, wizard Roy wouldn't need an evoker. Wizard Roy can still cast evocation spells. He just would have an abjuration in his bonus spell/level.
If Roy had to drop one of Haley, V, or Elan to add another melee character you can be DAMN sure Elan isn't getting a spot. Elan was a throw in, brought along because there was room for him. But as I said, I think a WizardRoy would have his father's arogance about magic and think he only needed one melee member.


Like what? It's not like WizardRoy was likely to try throwing him into the Gate. And when that happened, the rest of OOTS was heavily preoccupied.

Xykon took on Dorukan, a near-epic mage, and won. Without a deus ex machina like the Gate, Xykon wins. WizardRoy would have no reason to toss Xykon into the gate, and FighterRoy only did it because Xykon broke his family heirloom, which wouldn't even be present in the WizardRoy scenario.
FighterRoy had no 'reason' to throw Xykon into the gate, he was just mad. So Xykon doesn't piss WizardRoy off by breaking the sword, maybe it's a different family heirloom, say a magic staff, that's broken. Or he insult's Roy's mom. I'm not nearly as creative as Rich, but I'm sure he could have created a reason for WizardRoy to get mad and toss Xykon into the gate. It's not like Xykon would have been trying to duel WizardRoy anymore than he was trying to duel FighterRoy. He would still have been toying with Roy, perhaps even more since he'd finally have a chance to look down on a wizard after a century of having wizards look down on him.

How about this:
:xykon: "Man do you wizards ever get tired of coming to me to die." Turns back on Roy and walks away to start the MitD's big intro.
:roy: "Don't walk away from me" Casts grasping hand to stop Xykon.
:xykon: "Oh, great. Congratulations, you have moderately inconvienced me. Daddy would be so proud." Starts intro again.
:roy: "Don't walk away from me" Has hand throw Xykon into the Gate. Xykon explodes.

The main point is if there can be a deus ex machina to take out Xykon in his fight with FighterRoy, there can be one to take him out in a hypothetical fight with WizardRoy. Remember in a storyline with WizardRoy, it would still be Rich writing the story. So while certain details (ie, Roy's fight with the cheese-half-ogre) would change, the overall structure of the story wouldn't really be any different. If he wanted Roy to destroy Xykon's body in their first encounter, it wouldn't have mattered if Roy was a fighter, wizard, rogue, or had one level in every class he could take.


If Xykon had been at full power, they would have flown there, right over the hobgoblins. Xykon only stopped to recruit because they were in his way.
:redcloak: Wow...you really don't understand him at all, do you?

Xykon recruited the hobos because he needed new minions, since he was down to his last goblin(Redcloak). (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) The hobos being in the way had nothing to do with it. No way Xykon leaves a town (or city) full of potential minions behind. Who's he supposed to sacrifice when he's bored? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0097.html) The demon roaches?

[Jasdoif]

Elan was a throw in, brought along because there was room for him.If by "was a throw in" you mean "had a spot reserved", and by "because there was room for him" you mean "because Roy appreciated his help in getting the recruitment to happen"; then yes, your statement is accurate.

[sun_tzu]

I believe that the Giant at one point said that the 'Psionic Danger' chose Roy not because he had a higher INT than Vaarsuvius, but because his mental stats were more balanced in general. Roy has middling to decent INT and WIS, and average CHA, while Vaarsuvius has high INT, he also has low CHA (referenced in the Elanicalicus storyline), and may or may not have low to average WIS.

But V also mentioned (in reference to Miko) that he didn't make it a habit to take orders from his intellectual inferiors...and, a few pages later, mentionned how his spells were "always at [Roy's] service". So it's likely that V considers Roy an intellectual equal.:smallbiggrin:

[Querzis]

But V also mentioned (in reference to Miko) that he didn't make it a habit to take orders from his intellectual inferiors...and, a few pages later, mentionned how his spells were "always at [Roy's] service". So it's likely that V considers Roy an intellectual equal.:smallbiggrin:

Well yes, I think Roy won V trust with how he described a fireball in Origins. But Roy still doesnt have as much Int as V, he has less Int but the Charisma and the Wisdom to use his knowledge better then V does. Thats why I'm sure Roy would be a generalist wizard if he was one and I'm sure he would have cast a cloudkill on that breach in AC wall.

By the way guys, Nale didnt knew he was gonna meet Elan in the dungeons of Durokan. The first Linear Guild were opposite by accident so even if Roy would be a wizard, Thog would have still been his opposite.

[Green Bean]

But V also mentioned (in reference to Miko) that he didn't make it a habit to take orders from his intellectual inferiors...and, a few pages later, mentionned how his spells were "always at [Roy's] service". So it's likely that V considers Roy an intellectual equal.:smallbiggrin:

There's more than one kind of intellect, though. For instance, mid to high INT and high WIS means that you may not be smarter than someone with wizard-level INT, but you may very well be able to apply it better to a practical situation. After all, success has two parts; understanding the situation (WIS), and creating a plan (INT, with a bit of WIS). Perhaps V simply recognizes that there are certain areas that Roy is an intellectual superior . Sort of like a physicist having respect for the intelligence of (to use an example you may find familiar :smallwink: ) Sun Tzu.

[Jukashi]

On a vaguely related note; if all the Order eventually got Prestige classes as a sort of "power up" (and a source of new jokes!), I think I'd like to see Roy become an Eldritch Knight.

[Wrecan]

Or Roy didn't have feather fall prepared and laments the oversight on the way down.
Sure, that's feasible, if you're assuming that everything would go exactly the same way because Rich would twist it that way. but that seems to be a false premise for purposes of this thread.

Obviously, Rich decided to make Roy a fighter. So this thread is already assuming that Rich isn't actually manipulating the events, but rather they are happening as if the characters really had free will.


I think a WizardRoy would have his father's arogance about magic and think he only needed one melee member.
Belkar was hired as a tracker, not a melee member. He showed up at the very end of recruiting. WizardRoy would already have hired his fighter by the time Belkar showed up and would have hired Belkar to be a tracker, just as he did when belkar showed up the first time.

Elan was always going to be in the party. Roy was just looking for a four-person party, using the classic D&D four-slot roster: Fighter (him), Cleric (Durkon), Rogue (Haley) and Wizard (V). Elan was the classic fifth wheel and Belkar was a toss in for Track.

If WizardRoy recruited, I see no reaosn why he wouldn't have the same attitude: Fighter (replacement), Cleric (Durkon), Rogue (Haley) and Wizard (him). Elan is still the Fifth wheel and Belkar is still the toss-in for Tracking. I really don't see WizardRoy looking for multiple arcane casters.


I'm not nearly as creative as Rich, but I'm sure he could have created a reason
Sure, but if we're assuming Roy is manipulating things, then the answer to this whole thread is "Nothing would change because Rich would manipulate things to happen just the way he wrote it." This whole thread appears ot be premised on speculating what would happen under the assumption that the characters have free will and are not merely the creations of a writer.


Xykon recruited the hobos because he needed new minions, since he was down to his last goblin(Redcloak). (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) The hobos being in the way had nothing to do with it. No way Xykon leaves a town (or city) full of potential minions behind.
Given that Xykon would be going to Girard's Gate, which is across the continent, I think he would recruit minions when he got to that continent (probably kobolds). Which is what I said originally. Sheesh.

He wasn't looking for minions. He recruited hobgoblins because they were in front of him. If he flies over them to get to his tower, all he'd see is a town or something. I doubt he'd particularly care to look more closely until after he decided to go after a gate on this continent. If he were going to Girard's Gate first, he wouldn't bother recruiting the hobbos until he returned (assuming he isn't successful at Girard's Gate).

[Dragon_Keeper]

If Roy was a wizard, he wouldn't have had his sword in the first dungeon, so his father could not have appeared to give him advice. So when the LG left the OotS to get eaten by th 2nd edition monsters, Roy would never have had Haley shoot at Nale and destroy the talisman. Thus the monsters would have continued to attack, ending in a TPK. Xykon would have eventually unlocked the powers of the gate, and would have ruled for all eternity.

[Kurald Galain]

If Roy had been a wizard, his father would obviously have been a fighter, and would have used Roy's family wand to speak with him.

And berate him every time on how weak and puny cantrips are, compared to a huge honkin' sword!

Well, but maybe if you meet Xykon the Death Knight, you can cast magic missile on him. Oh, I remember! Spell resistance!
Perhaps you could put him to sleep with a spell... wait, you can't! Undead!
Maybe you should cast reduce... Oh no! Spell resistance!

At which point Roy casts Silence to get his dad to STFU.

[Weredwarf]

except Roy might not have died this time around, thanks to being able to cast his own feather fall spell.

Yes, but he wouldn't have survived the metor swarm and probaly not the finger of death.

[Tmabbbb]

I don't think Roy could cut it as a wizard. He's too busy congratulating himself, his INT is about 10-14 (I don't play DnD, this might not be important). If he did manage to become a wizard, I think OOTS would be killed when they first fight Xykon, since I'm guessing Xykon didn't kill Roy just so Roy'd feel bad about his broken sword. Therefore, since OOTS wouldn't win from sheer luck, they'd all die, and Xykon would take over the world.

[Chronos]

By the way guys, Nale didnt knew he was gonna meet Elan in the dungeons of Durokan.He did, in fact. Xykon hired Nale to kill them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), apparently before Nale came to the dungeon. Which, interestingly, implies that Xykon did know and care that some adventurers were coming after him.

[Kish]

(In my mind, the replacement fighter for Roy is MinMax from the Goblins webcomic!)
Remember how Roy reacted to the idea of killing orcs simply for being orcs in OtOoPCs? He wouldn't touch Minmax with anything shorter than his sword.

[Korias]

If Roy was a wizard, Roy would cast Wish and protect all the gates via Wish spells.

Nuff Said, Roy would probably be dead in certain situations and rock out in others. But as a fighter, hes good at what he is. Fighting.

[factotum]

I don't think Roy could cut it as a wizard. He's too busy congratulating himself, his INT is about 10-14 (I don't play DnD, this might not be important).

If he wanted to be a wizard he obviously wouldn't have picked the same set of stats (assuming he was running on point buy). Besides, he has a way high intelligence for a Fighter, so clearly running with suboptimal stats is fine as far as he's concerned...

[Setra]

If Roy was a wizard, Roy would cast Wish and protect all the gates via Wish spells.

Nuff Said, Roy would probably be dead in certain situations and rock out in others. But as a fighter, hes good at what he is. Fighting.
Ermm.. How exactly would he cast wish at level 7-13(14?)?

[Wrecan]

Remember how Roy reacted to the idea of killing orcs simply for being orcs in OtOoPCs? He wouldn't touch Minmax with anything shorter than his sword.

That's a good point. I guess I meant a MinMax type character, not one with MinMax's racism.

[Chronos]

Ermm.. How exactly would he cast wish at level 7-13(14?)?Not to mention, how would Wish have been able to protect the Gates any better than they already were? Dorukan did have access to Wish, and Lirian had Miracle, and if they thought it would help any, they would already have cast them (and maybe did, but it wasn't enough).

[Goofy]

He's too busy congratulating himselfUnlike V, who is the epitomy of humility.


[H]is INT is about 10-14.14-18 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912).


If he did manage to become a wizard, I think OOTS would be killed when they first fight Xykon, since I'm guessing Xykon didn't kill Roy just so Roy'd feel bad about his broken sword.There exist mage archetypes that make use of swords.


Therefore, since OOTS wouldn't win from sheer luck, they'd all die, and Xykon would take over the world.Or Rich would've invented some other way for Roy to luck out in the first place.

[John Campbell]

If Roy were a wizard, he might've made the Knowledge (Arcana) check to remember that you have to destroy a lich's phylactery to put it down permanent-like, and averted everything after Xykon exploded.

[Ecalsneerg]

If Roy were a wizard, he might've made the Knowledge (Arcana) check to remember that you have to destroy a lich's phylactery to put it down permanent-like, and averted everything after Xykon exploded.

But so might've V, but that didn't happen. And since he seeks arcane power, we can assume he has Knowledge: Arcane ranks.

[Palpie]

Given that Xykon would be going to Girard's Gate, which is across the continent, I think he would recruit minions when he got
to that continent (probably kobolds). Which is what I said originally. Sheesh.

He wasn't looking for minions. He recruited hobgoblins because they were in front of him. If he flies over them to get to his tower, all he'd see is a town or something. I doubt he'd particularly care to look more closely until after he decided to go after a gate on this continent. If he were going to Girard's Gate first, he wouldn't bother recruiting the hobbos until he returned (assuming he isn't successful at Girard's Gate).

Read the comic again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) Xykon specifically states he wants to recruit the hobos because he's out of minions. This is before they've found the locations of the other gates. The hobos being in the way has nothing to do with it. He just wants mooks he can boss around and kill when he gets bored. Now if he had a body, maybe he just walks in, blasts a few hobos himself to enslave them. But he still would have recruited the hobos as soon as he saw them. Xykon and Redcloak would still have gotten the hobos, they would still have decided that attacking Azure City and wiping out the Saphire Guard would be fun.

And it should be noted that appearently in the extra comics in Paladin Blues, Redcloak and Xykon might have be killed by the silver dragon if they didn't have the hobos with them. Not to mention the hobos are what got them past the guard monster.


If he did manage to become a wizard, I think OOTS would be killed when they first fight Xykon, since I'm guessing Xykon didn't kill Roy just so Roy'd feel bad about his broken sword.
No Xykon didn't kill Roy because he want to do the BBEG thing and reveal his secret weapon and have it kill Roy. At pretty much any point Xykon could have stopped and blasted Roy (much like he eventually did). It wouldn't have mattered what class the person attacking him was, he had first-class villiany to perform. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html)

[David Argall]

Now the prime thing to remember when we move beyond Roy himself is that we still have a plot to write here. There will still be much the same problems. The story merely centers on the mage instead of the fighter. [Given the large number of stories where the mage stays in the background and the fighter is front and center, the decision to make Roy a fighter was probably a good one, but if he had been a mage....]

OK, the party doesn't need 2 mages, so we replace V with a fighter, Thog? Since we have an evil halfling, a NG half-orc [pacifist fighter?] has potential.

No, we can't dump Elan to make room for V. Elan may be worthless to the party, but he's the comic relief, and very valuable to the comic.

Now our basic plot is not going to change much. The individual gags may well change, but we still have the basic plot. The party battles its way to the lich and is almost overcome, except that Roy has a surprise. Actually the mage acting as a fighter is not that that bad an idea, but there are loads of alternatives.
Maybe Roy fails his hold person check and is stiff. Random minion comes to the "rescue" of the lich and knocks Roy over, who starts rolling, knocking lich down, and then into the gate. Cue fireworks. Or we take Haley's falling tower trick with Roy accidentally grabbing the right rock to throw at the lich [since he is out of spells and has to do something], which sets off an avalanche that hits lich and knocks him into the gate. Cue fireworks.
The exact tactic doesn't matter. In any case we are plot-ruled. The events are not a bunch of dominos, where one out of place changes everything. Rather we are are more talking about the hole your hand leaves in a bucket of water when you take it out of the water.

And the city events would also be about the same. Miko drags the party to the city and the rigged trial. Party heads out to oracle, but must deal with Nale. Party returns to the city and Roy has the conversation with Shojo just when Miko can overhear it...

No, there will be a lot of change at the page level, but very little at the book level.

[Setra]

If Roy were a Wizard... V would be revealed to be a female, and then she'd get a divorce and marry Roy, then they'd live happily ever after achieving ultimate arcane power together.

They would have three little half-elves, who would grow up to be bards, much to the dismay of Roy.

[Gijs]

If Roy was a wizard he would be a cool kick ass warrior wizard with increased crit strikes spells and aura's. :)

[paladinofshojo]

He probably would make a decent wizard, since the mind flayer found Roy's mind more "appetizing" then V's 18 int. "cheese steak sandwitch", and genetically, his father was a rather successful wizard himself. But if he had decided to take his "great-granddad's" blade with him to hogwart's school, he would of been the great "warrior-wizard", the most twinked up class in history!! He wouldn't need some low IQed fighter to stand in front of him while he casted spells of doom upon his enemies, no all he would of needed is his sword and some light chain armour above his robes. He wouldn't of even needed to have started the Order of the Stick since he could of just blasted his way through into Xykon's lair. Blasted away all his gobbo's and undeads with some bad ass mage spells, teleported himself behind Redcloak then stabbing him with his sword then destroying the phyllactery. Then he would simply destroy Xykon's current body and destroying him permanently the FIRST time. But seeing as it would only be about 10 pages even WITH extended dialouge, and that there wouldn't be any long residing plot points that will NOT be resolved since they would never happen in this alternate universe........................... Were better off not thinking about it.

[Charles Phipps]

Roy smash puny Kobolds!