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unseenmage
2017-12-27, 03:24 AM
What would drive someone with access to 9th lvl spells to sell their services putting those spells into magic items?
No seriously. Am trying to wrap my head around what could motivate such an NPC.

The last time I struggled with an in-game justification for powerful custom magic items to order I stumbled across the Mercane race.
The GM at the time and I discussed how the Mercane as a race could easily be information brokers for powerful outsiders and leverage that intangible currency into spellcasting/item creation services that them get traded for goods/gp to material planed residents.

This time I am wanting a few in character justifications for why mortal full casters would sell their services for anything as banal as gp.

tadkins
2017-12-27, 03:29 AM
Wealth makes the world go 'round. :)
I can't picture a single person not having something they can do with money.

As an example; high level casters tend to be the folks that would send younger adventuring parties on various quests here and there, to do stuff they don't want to bother with themselves. Gotta have something to pay them with, right?

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 03:52 AM
My trouble with dollar signs geepees as a motivation is that access to 9ths means access to straight creation magic. You want gold, you create gold. You want adventurers, you can literally create them from practically nothing.

Fizban
2017-12-27, 03:53 AM
Gotta eat to live, gotta craft to eat. And when "eat" can also include all sorts of fancy consumables, spell components, and research costs, eating is expensive.

The assumption behind existing items is that someone made them in the past. The assumption behind being able to buy whatever you want in a city is. . . "Anything having a price under that limit is most likely available."

People who don't think high level NPCs would bother crafting for you should be restricting you to printed items or even rolled random lists of what can actually bought in that city.

People who want any custom item under X gp to be available in a city of Y size need to accept how that means there must be an NPC making it. Note that custom items are not officially supported- there is no line in the DMG that says the gp limit includes custom items, and as custom items are custom you are at best "most likely" able to find printed items under that limit. Anything regarding custom items is already on the DM.

As for why the NPC would make it- well assuming you can find someone who can (as there are plenty of items in the DM with caster levels outside the range of NPCs in cities where they're available, Universal Solvent being the worst), then it's on the DM to figure out why. So again, a high level spellcaster has spell components and consumables that they want to have available, and that means they need income. They could also have worldly interests that require cash, funding or paying off organizations and other NPCs, which can be paid for by crafting something for this adventuring party that's taking all the risk actually "generating" the wealth by dungeon delving.

A bigger problem is the time investment: ridiculously high level expensive items take a ridiculous amount of time, which is again not accounted for officially in the gp limit, or by people making their demands about high level play. High level adventures generally need time limits, which goes directly against spending months waiting for your snowflake gear to be finished. And the income as well since barring certain splat feats every spellcaster crafts at 1,000gp per day, for a profit of 500gp per day, for an eight hour workday. There may be other more lucrative/less time intensive occupations.

So I guess you'd better make friends if you want high level magic items that aren't randomly generated, placed by the DM, or self crafted. "Most likely available," if you know the right person and have some time on your hands.

Or you could look at DMG 2, have a party member or high level NPC cast a fireball at you, and get your item with a 1 hour bonding ritual. Only one at a time, but that's what custom item stacking rules are for.

Edit: and well yeah, it should go without saying that the default setting and rules don't give a fig about Wall of X infinite money glitches. True Creation, if you're even able to cast it, converts xp to gp at a rate of 1:2, while crafting does it at 1:12.5. Wish can still only get you 1:5. If you have lol infinite zero xp wishes then again, the game does not give a fig about your glitch. NPCs don't use xp, but any DM that lets them spam xp spells obviously doesn't care about limiting them.

Boggartbae
2017-12-27, 04:49 AM
Same reason elderly people take up gardening. It's fun, it passes the time, and you have something to show for yourself when you're done.

I guess if I were a high level caster in a world without screens, I wouldn't object to crafting magic items as a hobby. It doesn't have to be all they do, just something fun to pass the time.

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 05:06 AM
Same reason elderly people take up gardening. It's fun, it passes the time, and you have something to show for yourself when you're done.

I guess if I were a high level caster in a world without screens, I wouldn't object to crafting magic items as a hobby. It doesn't have to be all they do, just something fun to pass the time.

I might like this one the best so far. Is the most human motivation so far. Am definitely going to include a kindly old retiree at some point who crafts high level custom magic gear as a hobby.

Mutazoia
2017-12-27, 05:10 AM
I would presume that casting the spell to create anything you want...say gold....uses rather expensive material components....that cost gold. I've heard of "you have to spend money to make money", but I think doing it THAT way is going to hit the wall of diminishing returns really fast.

I can imagine a caster thinking "sure...I can just magically create this thing. I'm going to need 20K gold worth of materials, 2 years of my time, and a bunch of energy (xp).... hmmm....I'm a little short on materials...I wonder if anybody wants to buy a used X-box?"

tadkins
2017-12-27, 05:52 AM
I've always been under the impression that using the "wall of X" spells to make wealth was generally frowned upon in most games, with a sort of gentlemen's agreement not to abuse them like that. Due to the fact that it's basically free money that breaks the economy and is in a sense, cheating. At least that's how it was with my group. Might be seen as different with others.

I like playing wizards but would gladly find legitimate ways to make money. I've always wanted to be a miner/geologist wizard that makes trips to the Plane of Earth to gather precious metals and gems.

Coidzor
2017-12-27, 05:58 AM
It provides a human face to up and coming adventurers so that you can learn about them and get a feel for who might actually go the distance to near-Epic or Epic levels, instead of spending Limited Wish spells to cast Legend Lore faster than the 2d6 weeks that it takes to find information about someone who you've only heard rumors and stories about.

Also, while they're visiting you, you can incapacitate them, learn all about them via Mind Rape or other methods, and then restore them so that they're none the wiser about what happened all from the comfort of an area that you carefully prepared in advance. I suppose you could also redirect them towards something that furthers your interests subtly in the longer term instead of just giving you money or taking a quest from you on the promise of magic items upon completion.

Darth Ultron
2017-12-27, 08:29 AM
Some people do crafts:

Just for the Art. They like to make stuff, so they do.

The Fame. They don't want to just make a ''ring of protection'', but they do want to get the fame that goes with an item. They want to be known as the guy who made X, that item that will be talked about forever and have their name attached to it.

The Challenge. This goes with the fame, as they want to make that legendary item that is unique and one of a kind.

Excalibur is an artifact and the most powerful sword in the land...and who made it....oh, well look there is the craftsman, right part of the ledged: Merlin.

They just want to help out. Sometimes people do good things just to be good. So they make magic items for people that need them.

And..well..on the sneaky side....a high level caster can tag an item, put a sigli or mark on it so they can track it...or even teleport it back to them or control who is using it. Now this is a bit ''too much'' for the average modern player, but in a game world more based on reality this would be common and happen.

D20/Pathfinder has some pathetic, watered down items that can make a character do or not do something...but in older D&D this was quite common. If your a spellcaster that hates say trolls....you make the Trolldeath Sword, not only does it have a high plus and fire...but it also controls the user and forces them to kill trolls.

lord_khaine
2017-12-27, 08:56 AM
Excalibur is an artifact and the most powerful sword in the land...and who made it....oh, well look there is the craftsman, right part of the ledged: Merlin.

Actually that was The Lady of the Lake, Merlin did not make the sword.


My trouble with dollar signs geepees as a motivation is that access to 9ths means access to straight creation magic. You want gold, you create gold. You want adventurers, you can literally create them from practically nothing.

What creation magic? The only spell that might do it is Wish, and that carries a staggering 5k xp cost. I cant see how you would create adventures from scracth either. Not without the degree of TO thats almost newer allowed.

And even if you could create gold, then that would just mean the material would lose its value as currency, and something that could not be created would replace it.

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 09:06 AM
Actually that was The Lady of the Lake, Merlin did not make the sword.



What creation magic? The only spell that might do it is Wish, and that carries a staggering 5k xp cost. I cant see how you would create adventures from scracth either. Not without the degree of TO thats almost newer allowed.

And even if you could create gold, then that would just mean the material would lose its value as currency, and something that could not be created would replace it.
True Creation makes gold or whatever else one would need.
Simulacrum makes people. Perfectly obedient people.

As far as devaluing currencies goes, well there are magics and monsters that have a much greater entropy on the world than creation magic can offset.

One dragon raid and viola, between what it takes to hoard and what it likely just eats there'll be more than enough demand after.

Fizban
2017-12-27, 09:10 AM
True Creation makes gold or whatever else one would need.
At less than 1/2 the return ratio of Wish, which is less than 1/2 the return ratio of crafting, though crafting takes forever. Xp generally requires time and/or risk to acquire, unless you have glitches to remove the cost.

The answers of "because they want to" are generally the best though, that's fair.

weckar
2017-12-27, 09:17 AM
Actually that was The Lady of the Lake, Merlin did not make the sword. Ehh.... Not to derail things but:

It is widely and believed and accepted that there are in fact TWO blades that have gone by the name excalibur: The first was placed in the stone by Merlin (and presumably forged by him), while the second was granted to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake, and was crafted by an Avalonian Elf. Either or both of these could in fact have been Arthur's OTHER magical sword: Clarent.

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 09:18 AM
At less than 1/2 the return ratio of Wish, which is less than 1/2 the return ratio of crafting, though crafting takes forever. Xp generally requires time and/or risk to acquire, unless you have glitches to remove the cost.

The answers of "because they want to" are generally the best though, that's fair.

Agreed, except that putting True Creation repeatably into an item makes it that much more profitable.

By the way, are you aware that one can buy craftibg xp? Both in the form of Distilled Joy and via the Talisman of Transference (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a).

Fizban
2017-12-27, 09:28 AM
Custom items are custom, if the DM is allowing an infinite True Creation item then they're responsible for any damage it does to their economy (allowing 100 charges of the xp cost to become infinite would fall under my glitch heading if it didn't already require DM approval).

Ambrosia costs 50gp for 2xp, you're losing a vast amount of money unless you've set up a factory with a custom at-will item- either you're an NPC with DM approval, or a PC with DM approval. Agony does have a printed infinite item at least, but the cost of the item vs the xp gained and the incidental costs of running the operation are not great. Making it with your own personal castings gets all of 2xp per day.

The Talisman of Transference has its own sidebar that clearly says NPCs charge 5gp per 1 xp, the same price you pay for magic items with xp costs, and the same ratio you'd get by Wishing for a 500lb block of gold.

Necroticplague
2017-12-27, 09:38 AM
They don't. Custom magic items are made not by using crafting feats, but using Wishes from various outsiders with it as an SLA or SU ability. Anybody high enough in power or wealthy enough for custom items to be justifiable can afford to simply hire a guide to lead them to a Portal to Sigil, where they can look for such services. Or just Gate in an appropriate outsider and compel them to do so.

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 09:43 AM
Custom items are custom, if the DM is allowing an infinite True Creation item then they're responsible for any damage it does to their economy (allowing 100 charges of the xp cost to become infinite would fall under my glitch heading if it didn't already require DM approval).

Ambrosia costs 50gp for 2xp, you're losing a vast amount of money unless you've set up a factory with a custom at-will item- either you're an NPC with DM approval, or a PC with DM approval. Agony does have a printed infinite item at least, but the cost of the item vs the xp gained and the incidental costs of running the operation are not great. Making it with your own personal castings gets all of 2xp per day.

The Talisman of Transference has its own sidebar that clearly says NPCs charge 5gp per 1 xp, the same price you pay for magic items with xp costs, and the same ratio you'd get by Wishing for a 500lb block of gold.

As you probably know I appreciate the math. Not my strong suite after all.

I really was just asking if you knew about those options.


As to how effective these gp and xp generating options are, yes games that allow their unbridled repetition can carry a higher difficulty on both sides of the screen. Of this I am fully aware having allowed and been allowed both.

So never fear, the ill advised use of custom items for fame and profit is both understood and allowed at my table.

This thread was more for a characterazation project anyway. I simply needed more ideas about what could drive someone who already posessed pentultimate power to bottle said power for paying customers.


Oh yeah! Another motivation occurs to me! Divine inspiration. High level Clerics could certainly be expected to make stuff if their deity demands.

Mike Miller
2017-12-27, 09:46 AM
An in-character reason is as simple as "because I want to." Personal preference is something any character can have. Maybe that level 19 wizard NPC just adventured all those years because he was worried about his friends. Once they all stopped adventuring, he was free to pursue his dreams of being a merchant.

Fizban
2017-12-27, 09:58 AM
As you probably know I appreciate the math. Not my strong suite after all.

I really was just asking if you knew about those options.
Hey man, did you know I hate infinity glitches :smalltongue:

But yeah, I looked up the liquid agony torture rack and just went wow, that's gonna take a while to pay off.

Re: wishing for items, while I don't endorse it as part of the "wish economy," or other arbitrariness, it does provide just about the only way to skip on crafting times, and as such does make for serious justification in high level characters getting items fast enough to matter.

The "gp" price of xp makes for some more useful calculations. Crafing costs 1/25 the the price in xp, which is worth 1/5 the price in gp, so making an item yourself costs 70% of the normal price. Applied to Wish, you instead pay 25,000 +20% of the normal price, which is waaaaaaaay less on big-ticket items: a 100,000gp item costs 70,000 "gp" to craft, but only 45,000 "gp" to wish. Doesn't usually get mentioned that much since wish abusers are usually about free wishes, should probably be patched. That's where your real free money's coming from.

Jay R
2017-12-27, 10:11 AM
:durkon:: Ye know, ye could just use yer powers ... to make yerself a fortune.
http://i.imgur.com/l0RgN9O.gif: I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I am doing. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html)

Oracle71
2017-12-27, 10:25 AM
Why would a full caster with 9th level spells become a merchant or craftsman? Maybe they just got tired. Maybe, after 20 years of risking their butt fighting Things Man was Never Meant to Know, after getting stabbed or clubbed or clawed or petrified or grilled by dragon breath every other week, they decided that they have had enough for one lifetime. Maybe they decided that they have done their duty to king and country and now, they just want to both enjoy the fruits of their labors while giving the next generation a chance to make their own legends.

lord_khaine
2017-12-27, 10:38 AM
True Creation makes gold or whatever else one would need.
Simulacrum makes people. Perfectly obedient people.

The XP cost of True Creation was already mentioned. But im not certain how relevant it is. As a level 8 creation domain spell then its unavailable for most people. Wish dont allow you to replicate it.

As for Simulacrum. No it does not. What it makes are copies out of snow. Imperfect copies at that, ones with only ½ the level of the original, and that are unable to heal normally. Those are not useable for general adventuring.
They also cost a lot of xp, 100 per HD. Thats 4k xp for a level 10 adventuring party. At that point its much easier investing 1000k into crafting something for someone you hire.


As far as devaluing currencies goes, well there are magics and monsters that have a much greater entropy on the world than creation magic can offset.

One dragon raid and viola, between what it takes to hoard and what it likely just eats there'll be more than enough demand after.

No i dont think so. If we assume a stable dragon population then the majority of the gold will just switch back and forth between dragons, adventures, towns where adventures spend gold, and back to dragons again. Its minimal whats usually eaten.


It is widely and believed and accepted that there are in fact TWO blades that have gone by the name excalibur: The first was placed in the stone by Merlin (and presumably forged by him), while the second was granted to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake, and was crafted by an Avalonian Elf. Either or both of these could in fact have been Arthur's OTHER magical sword: Clarent.

All the tales i have seen with just a bit of research behind them calls the sword from the lake excallibur.

Fizban
2017-12-27, 10:59 AM
No i dont think so. If we assume a stable dragon population then the majority of the gold will just switch back and forth between dragons, adventures, towns where adventures spend gold, and back to dragons again. Its minimal whats usually eaten.
This has gotta be an infographic somewhere.

legomaster00156
2017-12-27, 11:11 AM
Certainly, any magic-user who wants gold can just create it from thin air - but if that happens, gold becomes intrinsically worthless, if the economy is in any way realistic. They, like everyone else, need a job, and why spend time going into filthy dungeons when you can just put in 8 hours a day in the comfort of your own fast-time demiplane?

unseenmage
2017-12-27, 11:42 AM
...

As for Simulacrum. No it does not. What it makes are copies out of snow. Imperfect copies at that, ones with only ½ the level of the original, and that are unable to heal normally. Those are not useable for general adventuring.
They also cost a lot of xp, 100 per HD. Thats 4k xp for a level 10 adventuring party. At that point its much easier investing 1000k into crafting something for someone you hire.

No i dont think so. If we assume a stable dragon population then the majority of the gold will just switch back and forth between dragons, adventures, towns where adventures spend gold, and back to dragons again. Its minimal whats usually eaten.

...
Sim and Dragons were just examples. Rust Monsters, Ethereal Filchers, the Disintegrate spell, the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction spell, etc all also destroy matter.

Everyone always gets so caught up on Creation magic and how it would affect the wirld they forget that thete's just as much, arguably more, Destruction magic.

If for every spell cast that makes something from nothing another spell gets cast that Disintegrates or otherwise obliterates something the gameworld should arguably be shrinking since destruction magics tend to happen in 10' cubes while creation magics happen in volumes barely worth bothering with.

As for Simulacrum... Nuh uh. Because reading comprehension, that's why. And I also twiddle my fingers from my nose and poke out my tongue immaturely.

Besides, conjuring entities to perform tasks is a cakewalk with magic, even if you discount Simulacrum.

Fizban
2017-12-27, 12:32 PM
Besides, conjuring entities to perform tasks is a cakewalk with magic, even if you discount Simulacrum.
Well, as I like to point out, not if you have a DM that enforces some idea of reasonable. Planar Ally gives reasonable costs for an ally, but because Planar Binding doesn't say how much outsiders like to bargain for in its own description, people like to assume that "free" is an acceptable answer the DM must allow.

Unless you're just talking about Servant Horde and Unseen Crafter- the latter of which ensures no eruidite wizard should ever bother with craft checks even if they don't feel like Fabricating personally.

Malimar
2017-12-27, 12:34 PM
If githyanki get too high level (16, iirc?), their lich-queen murders them. To avoid this, they start spending all their XP on crafting when they start to get too leveled. This is where all magic items in the universe come from.

Bucky
2017-12-27, 12:38 PM
There could be a gentleman's agreement between high level casters not to break the mundane economy because it would result in bad things.

The magic items might be made for birthday gifts where just giving coin would be inappropriate.

There might just not be enough gold pieces around for the transactions that high level casters engage in, so they often pay each other in crafting services instead.

The caster might be an Artificer, or other class whose access to 9ths through items is broader than his prepared access to the same spells.

The caster might be a prepared caster who makes items of obscure spells to extend her slots on an adventure, but sells off the surplus afterwards.

Making deals with high level outsiders means some cheese on top of Gate to bypass the HD cap, or paying them. Some of them won't accept gold. You're better off paying them with a magic item than with your soul.

fallensavior
2017-12-27, 01:58 PM
Artificers can make magic items that require 9th level spells without actually having access to the casting of those spells.

Also, by emulating certain prestige class spell lists (such as Ur-Priest) that get 9th level spells at caster level 9, (though cheesy) they can potentially do this quite a bit earlier in their career than wizards or whoever else.

ShurikVch
2017-12-28, 12:47 PM
Note: the City of Delights have a merchant who's, actually, an Ancient Red Dragon Wizard (Ajami) 8.
He's there, because his sky ship was stolen; he's a merchant because it give him cover, opportunity to gather info (to find his stolen ship), and some amount of profit

Luccan
2017-12-28, 01:11 PM
I know you're asking about a caster with 9ths, but consider that you don't have to have access to 9ths to create items. The most powerful, yes, but things like potions, wands, scrolls, and even plenty of more unique weapons and items don't require you be the most powerful caster on the map. I imagine the higher level items could easily be old and not for sale at all. These are items of legend that were crafted by or for conquerors or heroes in ages past that were lost at some point. However, some items have insanely high CL for their creation, Sovereign Glue and Universal Solvent being most notable. The solvent requires CL 20, despite costing 50 gp and a 6th level spell.The glue has a CL of 20, costs 2,400 gp, but otherwise requires you to be about 3rd level to meet almost all necessary requirements except CL. I'd adjust the CLs of these items down significantly, honestly, and bring up the Solvent price and lower the Glue price. If you can make adjustments like that, it should start making a little more sense.

If you're going to assume more than a few casters with 9th level spells exist somewhere in your campaign, then access to 6th or lower level spells shouldn't be so rare you can't commission a decent item for your level. And most importantly to any D&D world: Just because we know the exploits you can achieve with spells doesn't mean all wizards do. In all likelihood, most casters still have to make a living.

unseenmage
2017-12-28, 01:16 PM
I know you're asking about a caster with 9ths, but consider that you don't have to have access to 9ths to create items. The most powerful, yes, but things like potions, wands, scrolls, and even plenty of more unique weapons and items don't require you be the most powerful caster on the map. I imagine the higher level items could easily be old and not for sale at all. These are items of legend that were crafted by or for conquerors or heroes in ages past that were lost at some point. However, some items have insanely high CL for their creation, Sovereign Glue and Universal Solvent being most notable. The solvent requires CL 20, despite costing 50 gp and a 6th level spell.The glue has a CL of 20, costs 2,400 gp, but otherwise requires you to be about 3rd level to meet almost all necessary requirements except CL. I'd adjust the CLs of these items down significantly, honestly, and bring up the Solvent price and lower the Glue price. If you can make adjustments like that, it should start making a little more sense.

If you're going to assume more than a few casters with 9th level spells exist somewhere in your campaign, then access to 6th or lower level spells shouldn't be so rare you can't commission a decent item for your level. And most importantly to any D&D world: Just because we know the exploits you can achieve with spells doesn't mean all wizards do. In all likelihood, most casters still have to make a living.
CL is not a requirement for Item Creation unless it is explicitly listed as such. With Sovereign Glue it is not listed as a requirement.

Psyren
2017-12-28, 04:21 PM
Can't speak to arcane motivations, but several deities encourage or even require their clerics (including high-level ones) to craft magic items on the regular. Nethys, Mystra, Boccob, Gond... to say nothing of the evil ones that want all kinds of cursed junk out there tainting the supply and causing misfortune. (Or hilarious char-op interactions, depending on their POV.)

Luccan
2017-12-28, 04:46 PM
CL is not a requirement for Item Creation unless it is explicitly listed as such. With Sovereign Glue it is not listed as a requirement.

That's what I get for never bothering with crafting rules. Regardless, I stand by my other points.

Ludic
2017-12-28, 09:18 PM
I think maybe, this is the perfect place to bring this NPC out of retirement.

I have an NPC that I used everytime I DM. I DM rarely these days, so he doesn't see much light.

He's affectionately called the HomoGnome. His real name doesn't matter in this, and he operates on a few specefic sets of rules.

He's always a full arcane caster.
He's always powerful enough to wipe the floor with the party, regardless of their level.
He's always a magical item merchant.
If you want it, he has it (usually).
He's always a Gnome.
He's always male.
He's always homosexual.
He always has a boyfriend/husband that assists with the shop.
And he always has a fetish for creatures of at least large size.

So why does this guy run a shop?

It depends on the setting really, but since 90% of the time he shows up I'm running Forgotten Realms, we'll stick with those reasons.

In FR he has a couple extra rules.

He's cross-classed Wizard/Cleric with the Chosen template.
He worships a former character of mine that has ascended to deity-status.

It's that last one about his deity that causes him to vend.

Ann is a very old character of mine, and upon her ascension, I thrust her in as a subservient deity to Mystra, one that specifically deals with creation. Her portfolio contains creating magic items. Her worshipers are required to create magic items, now you may say that is counter-productive because of EXP costs, but Ann god-powers that away for items made in ceremonies and rituals to her. The HomoGnome is one of said worshipers. Now Ann doesn't require you keep the items, just that you make, and research the creation of new things. In this continuity, the HomoGnome is actually the guy that created the Splitting enchantment. It's worth noting she does hold herself to that same standard.

Now, since Ann doesn't require you keep what you make, and you as part of her clergy have an abundance of magical items, and are creating new ones regularly, what do you do? You get them to people that can use them. The HomoGnome sells to adventurers (at discount prices if you have a large sized party member, and sometimes for free in the case of his Ring of Fetish Fall [don't ask]). Surely the Ranger/Scout spending feats into Greater Manyshot would want a splitting bow. And imagine the story he can tell his kids when that soon to be legendary bow of his was crafted by the guy that figured out how to make that enchantment work to begin with!

He sells because of excess caused through his choice of patrons.

He sells because he has it, and your character needs it.

javcs
2017-12-30, 03:30 AM
High level items out in the world are stuff that's gotten lost by guys from (normally self-contained/isolated) Tippyverse-esque cities that went out into the rest of the world on drunk dares and if unfortunate, died, if not, got robbed in their sleep.
Or items that were in the hands of planar travelers. There are infinite outsiders, some of them will do nothing but craft stuff.


Also, if you're evil, RAW you can sacrifice sentients (including outsiders) for crafting XP based on a skill check.

With enough low-level items, an Artificer who can deconstruct items can build higher level stuff for free. As such, an Evil Artificer could sacrifice people for making minor items, and then strip down those minor items to create more powerful/expensive items. Said more powerful items would not have the aura/side effects of creation via Ritual Sacrifice.


Plus, in most published settings, there's a fairly lengthy high-magic history, and often a collapsed civilization or two. So there's room for a lot of older stuff.


As a sidenote, in some more modern stories (especially of the LITRPG/dungeon core/similar genres) dungeons are often magical entities/creations that channel the lifeforce of those who die within their area of influence, and use it to create items and power normal dungeon operations. Sometimes it's an intelligent or semi-intelligent dungeon using that power or it's just a means for the dungeon's creator/owner/master/ruler to get power for free, effectively.
Such entities would create items and loot to draw in adventurers, and would allow some to leave, in order to spread the word and get more adventurers to come in.



IIRC, the rules on cooperation/collaboration of item creation would allow a high level caster/creator to work with a lower-level sucker/minion/client who wants an item who provides the XP.

King of Nowhere
2017-12-30, 08:33 PM
I haven't read all answers because there are many long ones, but here is my answer:

wizards are basically nerds.

Or, more appropriately, university researchers. I have met a lot of university researchers, since I've been one for five years, and I don't think more than one or two of them had any interest in taking over the world or existing in a new dimensional plane. They liked their job and they were content to do their studying and researching, mostly for the sake of it.

In fact, I have an opposite question: why the archetypical wizard is power-hungry and paranoid? Wizards are first and foremost intellectuals, and intellectual types are very rarely like that.

So, in my campaign world, most wizards earn a living crafting items or casting spells for a fee because they dislike confrontation, they dislike putting themselves at risk, and they are just not interested in the rewards. Also, they most likely have terrible CON and DEX scores (again, intellectual types), and they do not keep a clear head in a fight (they are used to deep thinking and lenghty study, not to quickly churn out spells in a battlefield), so most of them would not fare very well in combat anyway.
And why would they even what to do that? Making items earn 500 gp per day, and it's easy job. Casting spells earns less, but if you know teleport you can easily get 100 gp per casting, and you'll find customers most days. And in the meanwhile you can study and regain the lost xp. It's a dream job. Why risk your life and more when you already have everything you want out of life by crafint items?
Similar considerations go for other spellcasters.

Adventuring wizards are the exception. Those who actually care about power, and who can keep a cool head in combat, and who have the agility and stamina to survive until they become powerful enough that they don't need them anymore, and who are not interested in a comfortable life of making a huge amount of money by cultivating your hobby.

It's like computer programmers. They could try to be hackers and crack the servers of the white house and blackmail the president, but most of them are perfectly happy to program videogames for a living.

EDIT: there is also another, parallel expalantion. Not every wizard is uber-powerful. Those of low or middling power are better off selling their services, making low and medium items. THose of extreme powers would want aappropriate items, but find nobody to make them. So they make them for themselves. Eventually they die, or they need a lot of cash quickly, and they part with their gear.

Vaern
2017-12-31, 01:19 AM
As characters age, they gain bonuses to their mental ability scores while their physical attributes are absolutely crippled. As their bodies are ravaged by the unforgiving flow of time, some may seek a profession less taxing than protecting their world from the rest of the multiverse.

Of course, some may seek to continue adventuring, and this requires finding a way to become young again. We are all aware that one of the easiest ways to combat old age is reincarnation. This is where item creation can become a strategic use of resources. Reincarnate causes the subject to lose a level, and the PHB states that spells the bring a subject back to life at the cost of a level sets their experience midway between their new level and the next level.
Thus, an old level 20 caster may burn all of his experience (minimum 190,000) into item creation before offing himself, then be brought back as a young adult halfway through level 19. By running a shop for a while in his old age, he effectively gains 180,500 experience points for free. And as a bonus, he has the option of setting aside anything he makes over that time for himself to use once he is young again.