Is Pun-Pun An Overdeity?

[Bartmanhomer]

I know I heard so much information about Pun-Pun being an overpowered kobold. But I have one question, Is Pun-Pun an overdeity?

[Nifft]

Nope, he's just a perfectly normal Kobold god trying to make his way in a wild and crazy world.

[Jormengand]

I believe the answer is "Yes", if we take the contentious position that the abilities involved all work the way that they need to in order for him to actually work, because he can just graft on a high enough divine rank to become an overdeity.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q: Is Pun-Pun an overdeity?

A: He is if he wants to be.

[phlidwsn]

Its a bit of a step down for him, but he probably won't be insulted if you call him one.

[ben-zayb]

Canonically, no.

Pretty sure Pun-Pun can revise what's canonical, though

[ryu]

He is. He is also every other deity. Also every living thing that isn't a deity. Also every not living being. Also the entire universe an every object contained therein. Also all of that across every plane in every setting. Across all time periods.

[thecrimsondawn]

Pun Pun can have just about anything, and then unlimited of the thing he just got. A Neutronium golem is but a cute pet to him created out of his boredom.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

He is. He is also every other deity. Also every living thing that isn't a deity. Also every not living being. Also the entire universe an every object contained therein. Also all of that across every plane in every setting. Across all time periods.Pun-Pun is love. Pun-Pun is life.

[Baby Gary]

Pun-Pun is love. Pun-Pun is life.

this is sig worthy, may I?

[JNAProductions]

Its a bit of a step down for him, but he probably won't be insulted if you call him one.

I feel like Pun-Pun's a cool kobold, so so long as you aren't insulting him, you can call him whatever you want.

[Jormengand]

I feel like Pun-Pun's a cool kobold, so so long as you aren't insulting him, you can call him whatever you want.

Doesn't he end up LN? In my eyes, that's pretty close to the opposite of a cool kobold.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

this is sig worthy, may I?Most certainly.

Has anyone ever actually answered 'no' to that question?

[Afgncaap5]

I believe the answer is "Yes", if we take the contentious position that the abilities involved all work the way that they need to in order for him to actually work, because he can just graft on a high enough divine rank to become an overdeity.

I think this is the salient point. A DM who says "Well, actually, Pun-Pun isn't mechanically feasible because of X" is going to have a Pun-Pun who isn't an overdeity (and may not have a Pun-Pun at all.) A DM who says "Pff, why not?!" totally has a Pun-Pun as an overdeity.

While "Rule 0 trumps all!" is a generally unhelpful point to consider in conversations like these, since Rule 0 is often what defines overdeitiness I feel like it's a salient issue to bring up. As such, for a DM who has a defined nature for what constitutes an overdeity, and for a DM who allows Pun-Pun, and for a DM who allows Pun-Pun's nature to intersect with said overdeity definitions, then the question is less "is Pun-Pun an overdeity" and more "has Pun-Pun chosen to be one yet?"

Case in point, at tables where the head of the pantheon is considered to literally be the DM (not the standard case but also not an unusual case in my experience) then this question might be "Is Pun-Pun the DM?" The answer to this question is, of course, up to Rule 0 which, again, is unhelpful for us here. Though Pun-Pun really would sort of be perfect for the stereotypical Mary Sue-ish nature of DMPCs.

[Inevitability]

Doesn't he end up LN? In my eyes, that's pretty close to the opposite of a cool kobold.

Mind explaining why LN is uncool?

[weckar]

coolness tends to be about 'rebellion', or at least existing outside the norm. Quite the opposite of the LN mantra.

[Darrin]

Pun-Pun shows up in my campaign world whenever the PCs try some infinite-wish-loophole trick. He appears, sneeringly tells them to cut it out, and disappears.

So far, he's never had to appear.

[Fouredged Sword]

See i just say "an infinitely long kobold arm reaches out of a portal to another plane and slaps you upside the head." When a PC tried to deliberately break the game. Punpun doesn't want company.

[Inevitability]

coolness tends to be about 'rebellion', or at least existing outside the norm. Quite the opposite of the LN mantra.

Existing outside of the norm doesn't mean you can't be LN. There's uncountable LN characters that 'exist outside the norm' or are otherwise unconventional in actions or being.

I'll admit, LN has a bad history with this kind of stuff, in part because of its ridiculously flanderized outsiders. Mass-produced robots that condemn individuality and giant hiveminded locusts are indeed not the best advocate for individuality and rebellion, but that doesn't mean Law can't be associated with those things.

Also, coolness doesn't need to be about rebellion, which is all that matters when it comes to the question: 'is a LN kobold automatically uncool'.

[Fouredged Sword]

No, see LN is cool because red and gold dragons breath fire and are Lawful. Silver and white drsgons are chaotic and breath ice. This proves that the lawful end of the axis is hotter than the chaos end.

[ericgrau]

Pun-Pun shows up in my campaign world whenever the PCs try some infinite-wish-loophole trick. He appears, sneeringly tells them to cut it out, and disappears.

So far, he's never had to appear.

See i just say "an infinitely long kobold arm reaches out of a portal to another plane and slaps you upside the head." When a PC tried to deliberately break the game. Punpun doesn't want company.
This. Whitespace available for rent. Call 555-555-5555.

[Inevitability]

No, see LN is cool because red and gold dragons breath fire and are Lawful. Silver and white drsgons are chaotic and breath ice. This proves that the lawful end of the axis is hotter than the chaos end.

Red dragons are CE and silver dragons are LG, though.

[Bartmanhomer]

No, see LN is cool because red and gold dragons breath fire and are Lawful. Silver and white drsgons are chaotic and breath ice. This proves that the lawful end of the axis is hotter than the chaos end.

I think some gem dragons are Lawful Neutral. I'm not sure which ones exactly. :confused:

[Telonius]

This. Whitespace available for rent. Call 555-555-5555.

His arbitrarily high number of Nut-Puns serve as his representatives and heralds. The players will usually get a warning by a squirrel giving them the side-eye.

[JeenLeen]

See i just say "an infinitely long kobold arm reaches out of a portal to another plane and slaps you upside the head." When a PC tried to deliberately break the game. Punpun doesn't want company.

I had a homebrew game where the DM did something like this. Basically, anytime we found some odd loophole or internal inconsistency in the system's metaphysics or mechanics, the rule was, "Prime archmage did it", generally to keep others from gaining similar power.

So I would think most DMs would say Pun-Pun doesn't exist and PCs can't create one, but if they said it did exist, it'd be a great force for IC preventing broken things that should work. (Of course, OOC the resolution should be more upfront and communication--but this is nice to have an in-universe justification even if it's a tad silly.)